There are only 59 shopping days until Christmas
October 26, 2017 3:00 PM Subscribe
"There’s nothing they need, nothing they don’t own already, nothing they even want. So you buy them a solar-powered waving queen; a belly button brush; a silver-plated ice cream tub holder; a “hilarious” inflatable zimmer frame; a confection of plastic and electronics called Terry the Swearing Turtle; or – and somehow I find this significant – a Scratch Off World wall map." The Gift of Death explores the consequences of the useless gift economy.
Scroogenomics: Why you should scrap the presents and give cash at Christmas, an article about economist Joel Waldfogel's book, which argues that people give gifts that are worth less to the recipient than to the giver, and this amounts to billions of dollars in lost value every December. Video interview with the author.
The blog Zen Habits lays out The Case Against Buying Christmas Presents.
A lighter take on the subject.
Scroogenomics: Why you should scrap the presents and give cash at Christmas, an article about economist Joel Waldfogel's book, which argues that people give gifts that are worth less to the recipient than to the giver, and this amounts to billions of dollars in lost value every December. Video interview with the author.
The blog Zen Habits lays out The Case Against Buying Christmas Presents.
A lighter take on the subject.
I think about this a lot. I have been trying to consume less--but our whole economy is built on buying stuff we don't need. We are in a system that should we all embrace the message of this article, would fail catastrophically leaving our economies in ruins. I say this as someone who spent a big part of my life hawking consumer packaged goods in one form or another. I feel better now that I work for a public transportation agency, but many of our passengers are on our system because they are headed to jobs making stuff or heading to stores to buy stuff...At some point (and I really believe it is coming sooner rather than later) the system will collapse.
posted by agatha_magatha at 3:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by agatha_magatha at 3:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
That Mobiot essay manages to do something that I thought impossible: amalgamate a bunch of specific observations that I vehemently agree with into an argument that, in both tone and spurious juxtaposition of barely points, I completely disagree with. The parts are all spot on, but the whole is far less than the sum of those parts. Yes, gift-giving is fucked up. Yes, environmental devastation in the service of mindless consumption is rampant. Yes, advertising is manipulative. Yes, world trade regulations are terrible. No, don't lay it all at the feet of individuals who exchange material items every once in a while to signify some human connection. Sorry dude, telling someone a joke instead of giving them a bauble isn't going to save the planet, even if it makes you feel good to chastise us for it.
posted by googly at 3:17 PM on October 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by googly at 3:17 PM on October 26, 2017 [37 favorites]
our whole economy is built on buying stuff we don't need. We are in a system that should we all embrace the message of this article, would fail catastrophically leaving our economies in ruins.
For Christmas most families spend hundreds of dollars (totaling hundreds of billions annually) on imported junk that gets tossed in the trash, first as packaging, then as broken plastic, not including credit charges wasted and lost interest in savings. I would argue that it is a rolling crisis, which got Trump elected by ignoring it, and perhaps will allow China to one day buy key American assets for pennies on the dollar during a depression.
posted by Brian B. at 3:20 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
For Christmas most families spend hundreds of dollars (totaling hundreds of billions annually) on imported junk that gets tossed in the trash, first as packaging, then as broken plastic, not including credit charges wasted and lost interest in savings. I would argue that it is a rolling crisis, which got Trump elected by ignoring it, and perhaps will allow China to one day buy key American assets for pennies on the dollar during a depression.
posted by Brian B. at 3:20 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm trying to transition to a giftless Christmas with my hubby because I just plain do not enjoy:
- spending weeks trying to find a healthy selection items that I think he'll like that he didn't just go out and buy for himself already or that he told me to buy for him
- trying to think of some items that I think he should buy for me
- not getting to unwrap any of those items
- unwrapping a giant pile of dollar store garbage instead
- cleaning up all the wrapping paper myself.
It's not like gift giving is itself a pleasant ritual that people enjoy so maybe that makes it worth the devastation to our planet and the other people living here. It's not pleasant and no one actually enjoys it for its own sake so let's just.. stop.
posted by bleep at 3:22 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
- spending weeks trying to find a healthy selection items that I think he'll like that he didn't just go out and buy for himself already or that he told me to buy for him
- trying to think of some items that I think he should buy for me
- not getting to unwrap any of those items
- unwrapping a giant pile of dollar store garbage instead
- cleaning up all the wrapping paper myself.
It's not like gift giving is itself a pleasant ritual that people enjoy so maybe that makes it worth the devastation to our planet and the other people living here. It's not pleasant and no one actually enjoys it for its own sake so let's just.. stop.
posted by bleep at 3:22 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
The only way we can stop this from happening is if individuals stop doing this to themselves & each other. It's a worthy message.
posted by bleep at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just give people money. Works great, no fuss, no muss. They get what they want, and I look like I give a shit (which I may, or may not, but which is socially useful in either case).
posted by aramaic at 3:27 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 3:27 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
My husband and I have been asked by my in-laws what we’d like for Christmas this year and I cannot think of anything we want or need. Thinking of gifts to buy gets harder and harder every year for ourselves and others.
posted by Kitteh at 3:31 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 3:31 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I for one, wanted to stand up and fucking cheer after reading the first essay. Halla-fucking-luyah, somebody else is saying this too, and more publicly than I am able. God, it sickens me to see all the fucking junk we consume.
My husband and I dont give gifts on Xmas we give to charities, and we ask that people dont send us anything either but rather give the money they would have spent on a present to a good cause of their choice. You can all point fingers at me and bitch about virtue signaling and I dont give a single fuck. I hate the waste and disgusting consumption at Xmas. I want a better world damn it, thats what I want for Christmas!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
My husband and I dont give gifts on Xmas we give to charities, and we ask that people dont send us anything either but rather give the money they would have spent on a present to a good cause of their choice. You can all point fingers at me and bitch about virtue signaling and I dont give a single fuck. I hate the waste and disgusting consumption at Xmas. I want a better world damn it, thats what I want for Christmas!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
And that of course means we're worthless as human beings! Off to the organ farms with us so we can generate some decent cash value.
I think you're missing the point. If I buy you a poop emoji sweater for $40, it was worth $40 to me. Would you buy that sweater for $40? I don't know you that well, but I'm gonna guess no. How much would you pay for it on your own? $10? $20? Dollars are just a way to express the disparity between what it's worth to me and what it's worth to you. You can substitute time; if the sweater took me 8 hours to knit, are you going to get at least as much enjoyment out of poop sweater as anything you'd spend 8 hours making yourself? Again, probably not.
posted by AFABulous at 3:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think you're missing the point. If I buy you a poop emoji sweater for $40, it was worth $40 to me. Would you buy that sweater for $40? I don't know you that well, but I'm gonna guess no. How much would you pay for it on your own? $10? $20? Dollars are just a way to express the disparity between what it's worth to me and what it's worth to you. You can substitute time; if the sweater took me 8 hours to knit, are you going to get at least as much enjoyment out of poop sweater as anything you'd spend 8 hours making yourself? Again, probably not.
posted by AFABulous at 3:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I like the giving money idea. This is what we do for Eid*. You get a stack of small bills and give them to kids. Then they do what they want with it unless their parents get hold of it in which case it is never seen again.
A huge benefit of this is that it cuts down on who you end up giving Eidi to - it always goes to kids, or people who are kids relative to you (my mom will still give me Eidi). You don't need to give to friends, siblings, elders - ie the people who already have whatever they want or could just go out and get it themselves.
It also saves a ton of time. You don't need to make lists and tailor presents to who you're giving them to. You just go to the bank and ask for some bills. If you want to be fancy/organized you can put them into envelopes with the recipient's name on it but that's about as involved as it needs to get.
I think it is better for kids as well. If they are given a gift then they have no real obligation to use it. They didn't ask for it and it wasn't of their choosing. If they get money and spend it poorly then that's a teachable moment for them about controlling their consumption. I remember using Eidi to buy large Transformers, video games and lots of other great stuff. Much better than the bunch of small presents that I'd get otherwise if people didn't give cash.
*When I was a kid we only got Eidi for the Eid at the end of Ramadan but now kids get it for both Eids. There are some people who give presents now but I prefer giving out cash, maybe with some candy or chocolate as a bonus.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:39 PM on October 26, 2017 [26 favorites]
A huge benefit of this is that it cuts down on who you end up giving Eidi to - it always goes to kids, or people who are kids relative to you (my mom will still give me Eidi). You don't need to give to friends, siblings, elders - ie the people who already have whatever they want or could just go out and get it themselves.
It also saves a ton of time. You don't need to make lists and tailor presents to who you're giving them to. You just go to the bank and ask for some bills. If you want to be fancy/organized you can put them into envelopes with the recipient's name on it but that's about as involved as it needs to get.
I think it is better for kids as well. If they are given a gift then they have no real obligation to use it. They didn't ask for it and it wasn't of their choosing. If they get money and spend it poorly then that's a teachable moment for them about controlling their consumption. I remember using Eidi to buy large Transformers, video games and lots of other great stuff. Much better than the bunch of small presents that I'd get otherwise if people didn't give cash.
*When I was a kid we only got Eidi for the Eid at the end of Ramadan but now kids get it for both Eids. There are some people who give presents now but I prefer giving out cash, maybe with some candy or chocolate as a bonus.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:39 PM on October 26, 2017 [26 favorites]
He also nails the weird proliferation of gifts for and between each individual; I love selecting a "main gift" for Spouse Person, something they'll use or love that lets them know I really know them. What I hate is the long-established precedent of a pile of ancillary, smaller things, ranging from confections to Think Geek crap or what-have-you. Those stress me out, for reasons well laid out in the article.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:42 PM on October 26, 2017
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 3:42 PM on October 26, 2017
My birthday is in a couple of weeks and my family is bugging me about what I want. They want a list of books and clothing or whatnot. I've been unemployed since March. I want cash for FOOD and RENT, and yet if I tell them this, it will be like I spit in their face. So I guess I'll ask for a Target gift card, which will go directly towards things like cat litter and paper towels. I really hate this whole charade.
posted by AFABulous at 3:43 PM on October 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 3:43 PM on October 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
Only ZERO DAYS for those of us who do not participate!!!
posted by jim in austin at 3:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 3:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, and I am now binge watching Adam Ruins Everything videos, thanks for this post AFABulous!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:52 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:52 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I also can't remember a wedding where I, or my parents when I was a kid, didn't just give cash or a cheque.
The one thing where giving cash is a bit weird would be for my kids' friends because they're really young. With a present it means I took them to Toys R Us and they picked out the things they would like their friends to have. I can veto things or suggest getting additional presents to fit whatever budget I think is reasonable but as far as my kids are concerned they're making the decisions. My oldest kid is turning 6 soon and doesn't really know how much things cost so I think her giving a friend an envelope with a homemade card and $30 in it would be too abstract for both of them right now but give them a couple of years and they'll probably prefer it.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:58 PM on October 26, 2017
The one thing where giving cash is a bit weird would be for my kids' friends because they're really young. With a present it means I took them to Toys R Us and they picked out the things they would like their friends to have. I can veto things or suggest getting additional presents to fit whatever budget I think is reasonable but as far as my kids are concerned they're making the decisions. My oldest kid is turning 6 soon and doesn't really know how much things cost so I think her giving a friend an envelope with a homemade card and $30 in it would be too abstract for both of them right now but give them a couple of years and they'll probably prefer it.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:58 PM on October 26, 2017
It's not pleasant and no one actually enjoys it for its own sake so let's just.. stop.
It's weird to me that this form of gift-giving is so culturally dominant? I mean, it's not weird in the abstract, I know it's a thing, I live in the US, but... I guess I just don't really know anyone who does it. Not in a socially-close enough way to be privy to the tribulations of it. Like, I'm *excited* about the upcoming holiday because birthdays and holidays (or emergencies, like oh-no-all-my-underpants-are-dead type emergencies) are the only times I (or my partner) really buy things. So it will be a fun excuse for me to replace my partner's sweater with one that doesn't have thrice-patched elbows (seriously, there isn't any wool left, I can not patch that thing another season). I don't mean to virtue-signal, or however the kids say it... this is just such an exotic thing to me. I can see why it is horrible, but it is hard to see how it ever even became a thing?
posted by halation at 4:03 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's weird to me that this form of gift-giving is so culturally dominant? I mean, it's not weird in the abstract, I know it's a thing, I live in the US, but... I guess I just don't really know anyone who does it. Not in a socially-close enough way to be privy to the tribulations of it. Like, I'm *excited* about the upcoming holiday because birthdays and holidays (or emergencies, like oh-no-all-my-underpants-are-dead type emergencies) are the only times I (or my partner) really buy things. So it will be a fun excuse for me to replace my partner's sweater with one that doesn't have thrice-patched elbows (seriously, there isn't any wool left, I can not patch that thing another season). I don't mean to virtue-signal, or however the kids say it... this is just such an exotic thing to me. I can see why it is horrible, but it is hard to see how it ever even became a thing?
posted by halation at 4:03 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Every single Christmas with my family went exactly the same way until last year. My mom would buy a dozen or more gifts for my dad, my brother, and me. It got harder every year as we all morphed into those people who didn't really need anything. She still made the effort, though, as did I, although for the last five years I did all of my shopping online.
Good lord, it was hard to buy one gift for any member of my family, let alone three or four. It was stressful, it was agonizing, it was expensive, and there was only minimal payoff--even the best ideas I came up with were only so-so gifts in the end, most of them seeing one-time use, if that.
Every Christmas was so identical to the next that we even sat in the same places every year when we opened gifts. One year I tried to sit in an armchair instead of in my usual spot on the floor, because my back hurt. There was a protest. I was unilaterally messing with tradition. It turned out to be such a big deal, such a rebellion, that I just took a bunch of advil, gritted my teeth, and sat on the floor to keep the peace.
Then my dad died last June, and none of us wanted to do that same thing we'd always done for 40+ years. So my mom, brother, and I (who have never traveled together) all met up in Las Vegas for a few days, with the no-gifts rule explicitly stated. And we had a blast! Best of all, there was no shopping! No buying of things!! The day before I flew out there, the cashier at the grocery store asked me if I'd gotten all of my Christmas shopping done. I told her no, that there wouldn't be any gifts this year. She froze at the conveyor belt and looked up at me like I was a monster.
I don't think we'll ever go back to the gift-buying, and I'm fine with that. Happy, even. It's a cliche, but the thing of value, for me, is spending time with my family. We live a couple thousand miles apart, and I'd rather have that gap closed for a few days than wind up with one more tangible thing that I have to find space for in a cupboard.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
Good lord, it was hard to buy one gift for any member of my family, let alone three or four. It was stressful, it was agonizing, it was expensive, and there was only minimal payoff--even the best ideas I came up with were only so-so gifts in the end, most of them seeing one-time use, if that.
Every Christmas was so identical to the next that we even sat in the same places every year when we opened gifts. One year I tried to sit in an armchair instead of in my usual spot on the floor, because my back hurt. There was a protest. I was unilaterally messing with tradition. It turned out to be such a big deal, such a rebellion, that I just took a bunch of advil, gritted my teeth, and sat on the floor to keep the peace.
Then my dad died last June, and none of us wanted to do that same thing we'd always done for 40+ years. So my mom, brother, and I (who have never traveled together) all met up in Las Vegas for a few days, with the no-gifts rule explicitly stated. And we had a blast! Best of all, there was no shopping! No buying of things!! The day before I flew out there, the cashier at the grocery store asked me if I'd gotten all of my Christmas shopping done. I told her no, that there wouldn't be any gifts this year. She froze at the conveyor belt and looked up at me like I was a monster.
I don't think we'll ever go back to the gift-buying, and I'm fine with that. Happy, even. It's a cliche, but the thing of value, for me, is spending time with my family. We live a couple thousand miles apart, and I'd rather have that gap closed for a few days than wind up with one more tangible thing that I have to find space for in a cupboard.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:06 PM on October 26, 2017 [17 favorites]
About 25 years ago, when I was still a lad living with my parents, my brother brought a motion to the floor that we forego Christmas gifts thenceforth. The motion was seconded and approved, and every Christmas since has been gloriously improved. Less money spent, more time saved, fewer pointless possessions, yay. We gather for a nice meal and then go about our business.
Now that I'm grown up and married, my wife and I just pick something nice that we both want, and buy it as a gift to ourselves--such as a new TV, or a nice trip somewhere. I recommend this approach.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 4:08 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now that I'm grown up and married, my wife and I just pick something nice that we both want, and buy it as a gift to ourselves--such as a new TV, or a nice trip somewhere. I recommend this approach.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 4:08 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cash is the gift card that is accepted everywhere.
posted by The Whelk at 4:12 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:12 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Down Pens by Saki (from "Beasts and Super-Beasts", 1914)
posted by Nerd of the North at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
My parents fully gave up on gift-buying when my youngest sister went to college; now we all get cash and tbh that is fine with me. My grandmother still likes to get us some sort of tangible gift, but it's usually small and accompanied by cash.
I am better at spontaneous gifts-- the random 'i saw this at the thrift store and thought of you'-- than planning ahead for holidays and birthdays, but I'm crafty enough that I can usually make a piece of jewelry or knit something that my mom and sisters will like. I think last year I got my dad a copy of the Toast's Dad Magazine and a fossilized ammonite ("for when you're feeling old, because it'll always be millions of years older than you!")
You will find me gift shopping at a mall shortly after Hell freezes over, though.
posted by nonasuch at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am better at spontaneous gifts-- the random 'i saw this at the thrift store and thought of you'-- than planning ahead for holidays and birthdays, but I'm crafty enough that I can usually make a piece of jewelry or knit something that my mom and sisters will like. I think last year I got my dad a copy of the Toast's Dad Magazine and a fossilized ammonite ("for when you're feeling old, because it'll always be millions of years older than you!")
You will find me gift shopping at a mall shortly after Hell freezes over, though.
posted by nonasuch at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Last Christmas was my first year not doing the holiday. I got sent a few things by family that doesn't respect boundaries, and basically kept the socks and not much else. But mostly I ignored it and it was really refreshing. I would be okay with gift-giving if it just meant sending everybody on my list socks and getting socks in return. Otherwise, it used to madden me that I was going through an extended period of extreme financial hardship and my family members would give me cash to help out--but only at Christmas and birthday, and at Christmas, suddenly the financial assistance my family members were giving me was functionally contingent on my finding some way to give them presents that didn't make me want to burst into tears at the whole notion of surviving Christmas morning... *before* anybody had given me the cash I needed to pay bills. It was, every year, terrible. I don't think my family meant for it to be terrible, though; just none of these people were from a culture that permitted just sending your adult kids/grandkids/etc checks just because they needed money.
For like five years I had this mad ritual of rushing to the bank the first day I could after Christmas and praying the checks would clear fast enough for me to pay my rent on time. I just never got it. If we were genuinely close--a few times in my life I remember finding a gift for someone that I was really excited about giving them. But I'd rather do that just because, and not feel obligated every Christmas to find something to give my grandmother who if anything has been trying to clean her house out for the last decade. I hate that I had to lose all the good family stuff to lose the obligation, though.
posted by Sequence at 4:44 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
For like five years I had this mad ritual of rushing to the bank the first day I could after Christmas and praying the checks would clear fast enough for me to pay my rent on time. I just never got it. If we were genuinely close--a few times in my life I remember finding a gift for someone that I was really excited about giving them. But I'd rather do that just because, and not feel obligated every Christmas to find something to give my grandmother who if anything has been trying to clean her house out for the last decade. I hate that I had to lose all the good family stuff to lose the obligation, though.
posted by Sequence at 4:44 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've transitioned to giving gifts of almost exclusively food and drink, in part as a reaction to many of my friends "having too much stuff", and in part because I really enjoy getting food and drink as gifts, too.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 4:44 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 4:44 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think you're missing the point. If I buy you a poop emoji sweater for $40, it was worth $40 to me. Would you buy that sweater for $40? I don't know you that well, but I'm gonna guess no. How much would you pay for it on your own? $10? $20? Dollars are just a way to express the disparity between what it's worth to me and what it's worth to you. [...]Here's the important thing: the value of item X is not the same as the value of item X that person Y thoughtfully gave to you.
If my wife gives me a $40 that she spent time selecting, thinks I'll love, etc., then it is worth way more than what the store was charging for that same sweater. I would pay MUCH more than $40 for that collective happiness, emotional learning, social exchange, etc.
Gifts have meaning and worth that is imparted by the act of giving! They are not the same as an identical object found on the road!
posted by introp at 4:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [18 favorites]
The Scroogenomics article touched on this this a bit, but: why are we downplaying the emotional value that giving a gift can provide? I mean, yes, I understand that horrible pressure if you're in a gift-giving culture where you are obligated to give Cousin Clod something and Aunt Noody something and Mom's a hoarder so oh goddamn it, but when you give someone a present and it is well-received, that is such a fantastic thing.
I have to say that I also love getting presents and I actually use the bacon toothpaste and the mechanical kitten paw. I used to work in an office where the gift exchange devolved over the years from a raucous show and tell into a rather bloodless passing of gift cards, and it sucked.
posted by queensissy at 4:51 PM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
I have to say that I also love getting presents and I actually use the bacon toothpaste and the mechanical kitten paw. I used to work in an office where the gift exchange devolved over the years from a raucous show and tell into a rather bloodless passing of gift cards, and it sucked.
posted by queensissy at 4:51 PM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
Years ago, my partner and I set dollar amount limits to our Christmas gift giving to each other - occasionally we exceed it but generally we are under. It forces us to focus on gifts that are well chosen and appreciated. For my partner I usually get some nice Japanese stationary or pens from Jetpens - something she loves but wouldn't buy on her own. Purely an indulgence but something she enjoys and uses. For our extended friends and close family, we only give gifts of things we make - food, alcohol, crafts (this year it is hand made scarves from my son & partner). Everybody else gets a Christmas card.
While I agree the junky, cheap junk that some people feel they need to give at Christmas is bad, I think there can be value in a well chosen thoughtful gift.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
While I agree the junky, cheap junk that some people feel they need to give at Christmas is bad, I think there can be value in a well chosen thoughtful gift.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Actual conversation I have had:
"We should probably start thinking about Christmas presents"
"EVERYONE GETS WINE"
"Wha...what?"
"EVERYONE GETS WINE"
"What about the kids?"
"WINE".
In the end, we gave the kids chocolate. Everyone gets a tasty treat, nothing gets wasted.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:03 PM on October 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
"We should probably start thinking about Christmas presents"
"EVERYONE GETS WINE"
"Wha...what?"
"EVERYONE GETS WINE"
"What about the kids?"
"WINE".
In the end, we gave the kids chocolate. Everyone gets a tasty treat, nothing gets wasted.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:03 PM on October 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
the first article is weird as hell to me because i don't know anyone who gives gifts of useless garbage, nor have i ever been a giver of useless garbage
why do so many people apparently give useless garbage
however the (smug, unbearable) solution is not to write them a fucking poem
posted by poffin boffin at 5:06 PM on October 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
why do so many people apparently give useless garbage
however the (smug, unbearable) solution is not to write them a fucking poem
posted by poffin boffin at 5:06 PM on October 26, 2017 [36 favorites]
(the solution is to send people photos of your pets in ridiculous outfits)
posted by poffin boffin at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
Metafilter: the (smug, unbearable) solution
posted by Slinga at 5:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 5:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Last Christmas, my friends and I all decided no more. No more gifts, just hang out. It's been great.
My family started doing only a secret Santa 20 years ago, and this year I plan to ask if we want to drop that, too.
This whole year, in fact, I've called my No New Year. Other than food, health and beauty products, and medical items (for me and my cat) I've bought nothing new, with the exception of some drawing journals. Everything has come from a thrift store, borrowed, or free from places like freecycle, or I've done without. Come January, I will be thrilled to buy new underwear. Other than that, I haven't lacked for much. If you live in a large-ish city, at least, you can get your hands on just about anything used. I really recommend this experiment. It has really helped me put the brakes on instant gratification (aka Amazon) culture.
posted by greermahoney at 5:13 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
My family started doing only a secret Santa 20 years ago, and this year I plan to ask if we want to drop that, too.
This whole year, in fact, I've called my No New Year. Other than food, health and beauty products, and medical items (for me and my cat) I've bought nothing new, with the exception of some drawing journals. Everything has come from a thrift store, borrowed, or free from places like freecycle, or I've done without. Come January, I will be thrilled to buy new underwear. Other than that, I haven't lacked for much. If you live in a large-ish city, at least, you can get your hands on just about anything used. I really recommend this experiment. It has really helped me put the brakes on instant gratification (aka Amazon) culture.
posted by greermahoney at 5:13 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
The only person in my extended family who really gets worked up about Christmas gifts is the World's Most Precocious Nephew. His parents tell us exactly what to get him. They impose strict limits on price, and specify only things he actually wants. My siblings and I email each other a jokey Christmas wish list that usually consists of several outlandish things and one or two reasonable things that we actually want. The list typically sounds like i) Electoral reform in Venezuela! ii) A Gulfstream business jet! iii) A Moleskine notebook! Lo and behold, you get the notebook for Christmas. If you can't think of anything else, they gladly accept cash or wine.
I have given people spontaneous gifts as nonasuch describes - "I saw this, it wasn't expensive, I thought of you, feel free to re-gift if you don't want it."
But, yeah, the idea of giving each other useless, unappreciated crap for the sake of giving each other "gifts" is really depressing.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:19 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have given people spontaneous gifts as nonasuch describes - "I saw this, it wasn't expensive, I thought of you, feel free to re-gift if you don't want it."
But, yeah, the idea of giving each other useless, unappreciated crap for the sake of giving each other "gifts" is really depressing.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:19 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
it will surprise no one to learn that i have been angry about a hypothetical gift poem for 10 full minutes now
posted by poffin boffin at 5:21 PM on October 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 5:21 PM on October 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
When I was younger, yuletide gifts were what you gave to your warriors to ensure their loyalty during the next campaign season.
You really can't go wrong with a good arm band or torque, and if they don't like it, it will probably be taken off their body by someone who does.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:23 PM on October 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
You really can't go wrong with a good arm band or torque, and if they don't like it, it will probably be taken off their body by someone who does.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:23 PM on October 26, 2017 [25 favorites]
*You can all point fingers at me and bitch about virtue signaling and I dont give a single fuck. I hate the waste and disgusting consumption at Xmas.*
This is pretty much where I'm at at this point, too.
I don't want anything (like I really, REALLY don't want anything), and I don't want to give anything.
I'm not a Grinch and I'm not cheap. I'm paying $$$ to put my dog in kennels and drive 500 km to be with family, no probs. I'll be bringing gourmet food and wine and cheeses and fun stuff for the kids and goodwill.
I just don't want to keep contributing to this culture of adults buying crap to give to adults. It's insane.
posted by Salamander at 5:26 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is pretty much where I'm at at this point, too.
I don't want anything (like I really, REALLY don't want anything), and I don't want to give anything.
I'm not a Grinch and I'm not cheap. I'm paying $$$ to put my dog in kennels and drive 500 km to be with family, no probs. I'll be bringing gourmet food and wine and cheeses and fun stuff for the kids and goodwill.
I just don't want to keep contributing to this culture of adults buying crap to give to adults. It's insane.
posted by Salamander at 5:26 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
if people didn't give me presents I wouldn't have any theramins or marionette theatres and hardly any antique snuffboxes, so the articles can get to fuck because they are a hostile action against generous people and their deserving hangers-on, such as me.
it breaks my heart to imagine that anybody gives wine as presents out of simplification or aggravation rather than sheer love of humanity, I will keep on drinking giftwine under the belief that I am filling my liver with esteem
fuck poems too
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:29 PM on October 26, 2017 [31 favorites]
Meanwhile, and relatedly, people are sending too much stuff to Houston and not enough cash
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 5:29 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 5:29 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm paying $$$ to put my dog in kennels and drive 500 km to be with family, no probs.
I often pay $1000 to fly home for Christmas. Then presents. It's ridiculous.
posted by greermahoney at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I often pay $1000 to fly home for Christmas. Then presents. It's ridiculous.
posted by greermahoney at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
*poffin boffin*, my mother used to subscribe to a magazine called 'Grass Roots', back in her hippy days, when I was a teenager. I'll never forget a homemade gift suggestion of 'poetry rocks'. One painted random words on small, smooth garden rocks, and presented them as a gift in a decorated recycled butter container. The giftee then spent many happy hours, apparently, making 'poetry' from them.
I won't even say what our (sniggering) suggestions for the words were.
So, yeah. Poetry rocks. You're welcome. :)
posted by Salamander at 5:31 PM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I won't even say what our (sniggering) suggestions for the words were.
So, yeah. Poetry rocks. You're welcome. :)
posted by Salamander at 5:31 PM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm also in the camp of having never given, received, or seen crappy token gifts exchanged. Well, not on purpose.
We've always done pretty much the same thing; give someone a book, movie, or music they may not know about they may like. Those were always my favorite gifts.
My family does not understand giving cash, or the thing you picked out for yourself.
posted by bongo_x at 5:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
We've always done pretty much the same thing; give someone a book, movie, or music they may not know about they may like. Those were always my favorite gifts.
My family does not understand giving cash, or the thing you picked out for yourself.
posted by bongo_x at 5:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
also I don't believe in virtue signalling, but I do believe in humblebragging sometimes, and that is what I hear when people "complain" about having so many friends who just like them so much and have so much money that they all buy them so many presents they have to pretend to like, and so many living blood relations that likewise care so much for them that they buy them all this garbage they have to find places for or surreptitiously give away, every one of them, twice a year. and try to evade the charge by acting as if it is a problem we all have because golly we all have families don't we
and yes, humblebragging is just what envious people say when they are projecting.
but "too many people love me so much that they want to express their overflowing affection through material goods but they have bad taste" is a real problem, I guess. but if you really had diamond shoes and they really were too tight, that would be a real problem too.
and re: the first article in particular, you KNOW that more people have derived real pleasure from reading and making fun of the Hammacher Schlemmer or Williams-Sonoma catalogs than have ever been killed by a scale model of a fruitcake or being run over by a $20K toy real car driven by their toddler. is the benefit greater than the harm? I don't know, but you'd have to actually run some equations to be sure.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
and yes, humblebragging is just what envious people say when they are projecting.
but "too many people love me so much that they want to express their overflowing affection through material goods but they have bad taste" is a real problem, I guess. but if you really had diamond shoes and they really were too tight, that would be a real problem too.
and re: the first article in particular, you KNOW that more people have derived real pleasure from reading and making fun of the Hammacher Schlemmer or Williams-Sonoma catalogs than have ever been killed by a scale model of a fruitcake or being run over by a $20K toy real car driven by their toddler. is the benefit greater than the harm? I don't know, but you'd have to actually run some equations to be sure.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Welp, I know whose usernames *we* won't be seeing in the Quonsmas swap this year.
If you're not going to put thought into giftbuying or don't have the money, desire, or energy, opt out and the landfills will have far fewer Big Mouth Billy Basses in them. And there will be less Scrooginess too.
I love giving presents. I hunt for months for things that I know my husband and family will like and I have a pretty decent track record of success. I keep a secret pinterest board where I pin ideas based on offhanded comments about desires so I can refer back to it when it's time to buy. It makes me feel amazing when someone loves what I give them. But I've had years where I've used my words and actually said: "guys, I'm broke this year so gifts are going to be small" and life went on. I'm also an adult who loves receiving presents. My husband bought me a little AJ Styles Funko Pop for no reason 2 weeks ago and I smile every time I see it because of the thought behind it. (he's phenomenal!)
Now I'm the villain in your history.
posted by kimberussell at 5:47 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
If you're not going to put thought into giftbuying or don't have the money, desire, or energy, opt out and the landfills will have far fewer Big Mouth Billy Basses in them. And there will be less Scrooginess too.
I love giving presents. I hunt for months for things that I know my husband and family will like and I have a pretty decent track record of success. I keep a secret pinterest board where I pin ideas based on offhanded comments about desires so I can refer back to it when it's time to buy. It makes me feel amazing when someone loves what I give them. But I've had years where I've used my words and actually said: "guys, I'm broke this year so gifts are going to be small" and life went on. I'm also an adult who loves receiving presents. My husband bought me a little AJ Styles Funko Pop for no reason 2 weeks ago and I smile every time I see it because of the thought behind it. (he's phenomenal!)
Now I'm the villain in your history.
posted by kimberussell at 5:47 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
if people didn't give me presents I wouldn't have any theramins or marionette theatres and hardly any antique snuffboxes, so the articles can get to fuck because they are a hostile action against generous people and their deserving hangers-on, such as me.
Monbiot is not opposing gifts per se, he's opposing single-use 'novelty' trash gifts.
it breaks my heart to imagine that anybody gives wine as presents out of simplification or aggravation rather than sheer love of humanity, I will keep on drinking giftwine under the belief that I am filling my liver with esteem
To a certain extent, that was hyperbole on my part. I was young and callow. My family are pretty well off - they don't generally don't have specific things that they need. And they don't want or need random stuff cluttering up the place for the sake of gift giving. But tasty wine is always appreciated, is eventually drunk, and isn't likely to just be wasted.
These days, I tend to spend a day making outrageously chocolately biscuits or super indulgent caramel popcorn and packaging those as gifts. They're always appreciated. My key objective is not to contribute to clutter and waste. If there's something I can get for someone that I know that they would like or use, I'll generally get that.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Monbiot is not opposing gifts per se, he's opposing single-use 'novelty' trash gifts.
it breaks my heart to imagine that anybody gives wine as presents out of simplification or aggravation rather than sheer love of humanity, I will keep on drinking giftwine under the belief that I am filling my liver with esteem
To a certain extent, that was hyperbole on my part. I was young and callow. My family are pretty well off - they don't generally don't have specific things that they need. And they don't want or need random stuff cluttering up the place for the sake of gift giving. But tasty wine is always appreciated, is eventually drunk, and isn't likely to just be wasted.
These days, I tend to spend a day making outrageously chocolately biscuits or super indulgent caramel popcorn and packaging those as gifts. They're always appreciated. My key objective is not to contribute to clutter and waste. If there's something I can get for someone that I know that they would like or use, I'll generally get that.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think the many many people who give trash gifts are really thinking "I'm sure so and so will really love this useless piece of crap, and by loving this useless piece of crap, they will know how much I love them". I don't think there's anything wrong with gifts like that. I also think gifts like that can just be given spontaneously.
The phenomenon being discussed here is more like "it's the time of year when I shovel cheap crap into my shopping cart at Target for other people instead of myself, while simultaneously everyone I know is doing the same thing for me"
posted by bleep at 6:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
The phenomenon being discussed here is more like "it's the time of year when I shovel cheap crap into my shopping cart at Target for other people instead of myself, while simultaneously everyone I know is doing the same thing for me"
posted by bleep at 6:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Getting people to believe that we can stop this is the difficult part.
posted by bleep at 6:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 6:07 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Somewhere around twenty years ago, my wife and I decided we’d had enough of the stress of figuring what to buy for each other and my siblings. Instead of gifts, we pitched the idea of making a charitable contribution to a local worthy cause in the recipient’s name.
It has worked out pretty well overall. The exception was when one sister in particular decided to donate in our name to an organizations like one that put up billboards discouraging teenagers from having an abortion. To counter that, we've donated to Planned Parenthood annually in my her name.
Even with that glitch, the charitable donation route is better than pandering to blatant consumerism of the season.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:10 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
It has worked out pretty well overall. The exception was when one sister in particular decided to donate in our name to an organizations like one that put up billboards discouraging teenagers from having an abortion. To counter that, we've donated to Planned Parenthood annually in my her name.
Even with that glitch, the charitable donation route is better than pandering to blatant consumerism of the season.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:10 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
*Getting people to believe that we can stop this is the difficult part.*
Yep.
posted by Salamander at 6:23 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yep.
posted by Salamander at 6:23 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Gosh, this is a very Scroogey thread! I'm from a big gifty Christmas family and it's not terrible! There are years when it's more stressful (Until recently, I bought for my two parents, three siblings, their spouses, and any assorted relatives or friends who were attending Christmas with us, which was a little overwhelming. But now we have an adult Secret Santa so I only have to buy for one adult, and otherwise I get to buy for my nieces and nephews.) We're a list-having family, though, so everyone makes a list and whoever is buying for that person peruses it. That way you can buy them things you know they want, if you don't have an otherwise awesome idea. But lots of times the best gifts have been really simple! The first year my Armenian brother-in-law celebrated with us, I had researched Armenian embroidery and I made him a bookmark with traditional Armenian designs and stitches. I also got him books. But it's the bookmark he still always talks about and shows people. When I threw out some old chairs I'd inherited from my parents when I moved into my first apartment, I first busted them up with a sledgehammer to give my brother the chair leg that his puppy had teethed on, which I had mounted. He cried. (In fact I have been thinking of doing a metatalktail about the best gift you've given or gotten!)
I am also big on giving consumables, especially to adults, so they don't have to keep random stuff around forever.
I do have one minor beef with my mom, which is that she likes to buy me books, and I prefer them in kindle format, but it bugs her that they're not wrappable in kindle format! (Being in a list family, amazon has made my life amazingly better because all year long when people suggest cool books on MeFi, I add them to a "christmas list" list on amazon, and then I go through and prune it and present A COMPLETE LIST with basically no effort on my part, whereas before amazon I spent like a month agonizing over trying to remember what to put on my christmas list. My mom's a teacher, she returns out lists to us for correction if we turn in half-assed work.)
But on to my more substantive complaint:
" Scroogenomics: Why you should scrap the presents and give cash at Christmas, an article about economist Joel Waldfogel's book, which argues that people give gifts that are worth less to the recipient than to the giver, and this amounts to billions of dollars in lost value every December."
Okay, I read the article, and I realize the economist is saying you should just give money (or gift cards, which is money without stigma!) to people you're obligated to give gifts to but don't want to. HOWEVER. I separately commercial Christmas from religious Christmas as much as anybody -- religious Christmas is Christmas Eve and church and family prayers and Jesus, commercial Christmas is Christmas Day and presents and Santa. AND YET it's still pretty fucking galling to see an economist suggest that for holiday that originates in a celebration of the birth of Jesus, who flipped the moneychangers' tables in the Temple, we're not providing optimal economic efficiency and we're costing the economy money with our FEEEEEELINGS. I'm so ticked off that I'm going to give EVEN LESS ECONOMICALLY EFFICIENT gifts this year because FUCK YOU, Christianity is about people, not markets.
That Mobiot essay manages to do something that I thought impossible: amalgamate a bunch of specific observations that I vehemently agree with into an argument that, in both tone and spurious juxtaposition of barely points, I completely disagree with.
This is me with George Will, all the time. While he's male and a generation older than I am, we come from similar Catholic intellectual backgrounds, and when he writes on ethics or morality or religion, I read the whole piece going, "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah! Great point. So true. Yeah. That's exactly right. WAIT. No. NO. NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!" All his evidence and observations are correct and interesting and on-point and then he gets to the conclusion and it's the exact opposite of where he ought to end up!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 PM on October 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
I am also big on giving consumables, especially to adults, so they don't have to keep random stuff around forever.
I do have one minor beef with my mom, which is that she likes to buy me books, and I prefer them in kindle format, but it bugs her that they're not wrappable in kindle format! (Being in a list family, amazon has made my life amazingly better because all year long when people suggest cool books on MeFi, I add them to a "christmas list" list on amazon, and then I go through and prune it and present A COMPLETE LIST with basically no effort on my part, whereas before amazon I spent like a month agonizing over trying to remember what to put on my christmas list. My mom's a teacher, she returns out lists to us for correction if we turn in half-assed work.)
But on to my more substantive complaint:
" Scroogenomics: Why you should scrap the presents and give cash at Christmas, an article about economist Joel Waldfogel's book, which argues that people give gifts that are worth less to the recipient than to the giver, and this amounts to billions of dollars in lost value every December."
Okay, I read the article, and I realize the economist is saying you should just give money (or gift cards, which is money without stigma!) to people you're obligated to give gifts to but don't want to. HOWEVER. I separately commercial Christmas from religious Christmas as much as anybody -- religious Christmas is Christmas Eve and church and family prayers and Jesus, commercial Christmas is Christmas Day and presents and Santa. AND YET it's still pretty fucking galling to see an economist suggest that for holiday that originates in a celebration of the birth of Jesus, who flipped the moneychangers' tables in the Temple, we're not providing optimal economic efficiency and we're costing the economy money with our FEEEEEELINGS. I'm so ticked off that I'm going to give EVEN LESS ECONOMICALLY EFFICIENT gifts this year because FUCK YOU, Christianity is about people, not markets.
That Mobiot essay manages to do something that I thought impossible: amalgamate a bunch of specific observations that I vehemently agree with into an argument that, in both tone and spurious juxtaposition of barely points, I completely disagree with.
This is me with George Will, all the time. While he's male and a generation older than I am, we come from similar Catholic intellectual backgrounds, and when he writes on ethics or morality or religion, I read the whole piece going, "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah! Great point. So true. Yeah. That's exactly right. WAIT. No. NO. NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!" All his evidence and observations are correct and interesting and on-point and then he gets to the conclusion and it's the exact opposite of where he ought to end up!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 PM on October 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
I enjoy giving and getting gifts as well (I’m great at personalizing gifts, like deep thoughtful tailored to your exact taste gifts - most recent was an out of print poetry collection for a couple I’ve known for years finally getting married) but as time goes on I settle much more on “donate 40$ to the Bronx Freedom Fund And I’ll cook you dinner.” Or such - for the last decade my mom’s boyfriend has gotten me a nice bottle of whisky for Christmas and I get him a Starbucks or target target card of equal value, everyone’s happy.
posted by The Whelk at 7:26 PM on October 26, 2017
posted by The Whelk at 7:26 PM on October 26, 2017
Monbiot is not opposing gifts per se, he's opposing single-use 'novelty' trash gifts.
So am I. Which is why I have made sure to let all the people in my life who give me gifts know that I like useful things, or experiences. Viola! No more useless crap! (I've always lived in teensy houses. Do not give me anything that requires being "displayed.")
But I genuinely love giving gifts. It is my love language. For co-workers and neighbors, I bake holiday cookies. For family I give thoughtful presents that I'm excited to see them open. (For my parents, I usually give them a gift certificate for an experience--they have all the things they need. I've gotten them to do an escape room, and brew their own beer. I had better start putting my brain pedal to the medal for this year's funky experience.)
Now that we have a kid, he mostly draws the present fire and that's just fine. I get my husband a couple things, my parents and his parents a couple things, and my son usually gets one big thing from us and the grandparents fulfill their role of showering him with largely forgettable largesse. (Though last year he got a set of walkie talkies from them and those are still going strong, much to my extreme dismay.)
So I guess I'm on team Middle Path. You don't have to reject Christmas altogether, just use your words with your loved ones and lay down some ground rules. The entire generation of cousins in my husband's family collectively put their feet down and decreed no more extended family gift exchanges (so many candles and bath sets), and lo, it was so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:10 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
So am I. Which is why I have made sure to let all the people in my life who give me gifts know that I like useful things, or experiences. Viola! No more useless crap! (I've always lived in teensy houses. Do not give me anything that requires being "displayed.")
But I genuinely love giving gifts. It is my love language. For co-workers and neighbors, I bake holiday cookies. For family I give thoughtful presents that I'm excited to see them open. (For my parents, I usually give them a gift certificate for an experience--they have all the things they need. I've gotten them to do an escape room, and brew their own beer. I had better start putting my brain pedal to the medal for this year's funky experience.)
Now that we have a kid, he mostly draws the present fire and that's just fine. I get my husband a couple things, my parents and his parents a couple things, and my son usually gets one big thing from us and the grandparents fulfill their role of showering him with largely forgettable largesse. (Though last year he got a set of walkie talkies from them and those are still going strong, much to my extreme dismay.)
So I guess I'm on team Middle Path. You don't have to reject Christmas altogether, just use your words with your loved ones and lay down some ground rules. The entire generation of cousins in my husband's family collectively put their feet down and decreed no more extended family gift exchanges (so many candles and bath sets), and lo, it was so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:10 PM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's a whole nother waste-stream of deadweight gifts, the ones designed for 'corporate giving', meaning mingy not-quite-bribes. All the good local food I like giving relatives-with-everything is the small entry in a catalogue of tiny quantities in lots of packaging, sold in cases, usually with a spot left for branding. I'm told it's tax-advantaged for MEGO reasons so is deadweight there, too.
(I assume the real bribes in kind actually make the recipients happy, so they are economic distortion without being economic deadweight.)
posted by clew at 8:28 PM on October 26, 2017
(I assume the real bribes in kind actually make the recipients happy, so they are economic distortion without being economic deadweight.)
posted by clew at 8:28 PM on October 26, 2017
Some people are a lot easier to buy gifts for than others. I am tired of the hard to buys who don't need, don't want, are super picky about what they like, but THEY BETTER GET A GIFT OR THEY BE MAD AT YOU.
I don't mind gift shopping as much sometimes, but I'm very tired of the hard-to-pleases who wouldn't give up the idea of getting a gift for anything even if they don't like the gifts ever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't mind gift shopping as much sometimes, but I'm very tired of the hard-to-pleases who wouldn't give up the idea of getting a gift for anything even if they don't like the gifts ever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
also I don't believe in virtue signalling, but I do believe in humblebragging sometimes, and that is what I hear when people "complain" about having so many friends who just like them so much and have so much money that they all buy them so many presents they have to pretend to like, and so many living blood relations that likewise care so much for them that they buy them all this garbage they have to find places for or surreptitiously give away, every one of them, twice a year. and try to evade the charge by acting as if it is a problem we all have because golly we all have families don't we
Oh come on. Like all threads that aren't blatently offensive, if the article isn't your situation, move on rather than making people feel badly for identifying with it. No one here is complaining we have too many family members, or we don't like gifts. I'm not obligated to be happy about consumerism just because I love my family. Those two things are unrelated. I don't think when my parents are dead I'll be crying over the novelty socks I won't get anymore. Consumerism in the U.S has been out of hand for decades and is only getting worse. People are allowed to complain about that if they want.
posted by greermahoney at 8:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh come on. Like all threads that aren't blatently offensive, if the article isn't your situation, move on rather than making people feel badly for identifying with it. No one here is complaining we have too many family members, or we don't like gifts. I'm not obligated to be happy about consumerism just because I love my family. Those two things are unrelated. I don't think when my parents are dead I'll be crying over the novelty socks I won't get anymore. Consumerism in the U.S has been out of hand for decades and is only getting worse. People are allowed to complain about that if they want.
posted by greermahoney at 8:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Err..are we cool with Quonsmas?
posted by jadepearl at 9:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 9:11 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
but "too many people love me so much that they want to express their overflowing affection through material goods but they have bad taste" is a real problem, I guess
No, the problem is the material goods themselves, and the fact that we buy way too many of them in this country for no real reason. If you want to show your affection, bake a cake. The vast majority of Christmas gifts (and stuff in general) ends up in the trash before the next Christmas rolls around. It's pretty obvious how all this crap affects our environment. It's also furthering human rights abuses and widening the gap between rich and poor.
posted by AFABulous at 9:28 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, the problem is the material goods themselves, and the fact that we buy way too many of them in this country for no real reason. If you want to show your affection, bake a cake. The vast majority of Christmas gifts (and stuff in general) ends up in the trash before the next Christmas rolls around. It's pretty obvious how all this crap affects our environment. It's also furthering human rights abuses and widening the gap between rich and poor.
posted by AFABulous at 9:28 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
since I'm extremely about service oriented work these days I kind of want to be like "Hi our Christmas gift is we're cleaning your apartment as a group while you relax and someone else takes care of your kids" or something like that.
posted by The Whelk at 9:32 PM on October 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:32 PM on October 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
His thoughts were red thoughts: ""EVERYONE GETS WINE""
eponysterical!
posted by chavenet at 3:04 AM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
eponysterical!
posted by chavenet at 3:04 AM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
My husband and I have been asked by my in-laws what we’d like for Christmas this year and I cannot think of anything we want or need. Thinking of gifts to buy gets harder and harder every year for ourselves and others.
My family decided three years ago - largely for this reason - that none of the adults would buy gifts for one another, only for the kids. My partner's family has a long tradition where they draw names from a hat at Thanksgiving, and buy only two small gifts (each w/a low $ cap) for one other person.
It has been a big, enjoyable relief not to have to see the run up to Christmas as a weeks-long worrying about the goddamn gift list.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:50 AM on October 27, 2017
My family decided three years ago - largely for this reason - that none of the adults would buy gifts for one another, only for the kids. My partner's family has a long tradition where they draw names from a hat at Thanksgiving, and buy only two small gifts (each w/a low $ cap) for one other person.
It has been a big, enjoyable relief not to have to see the run up to Christmas as a weeks-long worrying about the goddamn gift list.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:50 AM on October 27, 2017
Gift giving between humans is a deep rooted thing (as any anthropologist will tell you) so it does serve a purpose even if the gift is useless (defuses potential conflicts and builds alliances etc) but clearly this Christmas shit has got completely out of hand.
I try to:
- give stuff from GoodGifts and the like
- choose charities that people might have an affinity with and give to the charity on their behalf (and then send them a card that mentions this)
- buy things people would definitely use/eat - like something they would have bought anyway
Kids are a special case and yes Ok they do get Lego often because Lego is a universal good and I wont hear anyone tell me otherwise
posted by memebake at 4:04 AM on October 27, 2017
I try to:
- give stuff from GoodGifts and the like
- choose charities that people might have an affinity with and give to the charity on their behalf (and then send them a card that mentions this)
- buy things people would definitely use/eat - like something they would have bought anyway
Kids are a special case and yes Ok they do get Lego often because Lego is a universal good and I wont hear anyone tell me otherwise
posted by memebake at 4:04 AM on October 27, 2017
Oh and a big Secret Santa thing by mutual agreement can also cut down on the crap, obviously
posted by memebake at 4:04 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by memebake at 4:04 AM on October 27, 2017
I grew up with parents who aspired to the poetry rock theory of giving a few times (I laughed to see it in this thread. I actually GOT the poetry rocks.) the thing is, in my family, if you didn’t guess whether we were headed by Hippy Mom or Status Mom this year, you ended up in the doghouse. So the result is my palms sweat when I have to select gifts, generally, although I’m getting there.
I actually believe that as the concept of emotional labour spreads, Christmas will grind to a halt. For many years I have been the cookie manufacturer for the coworker/teacher/neighbour gift tradition and while I do enjoy myself to some extent, it’s tiring. And there’s always a teacher on Facebook saying they don’t want calories from the proles’ germ-ridden homes anyway, please send Starbucks gift cards. But I probably won’t because frankly the cookies cost me $2 + time and $2 doesn’t get you a pumpkin spiced anything at the ‘bucks.
But that is nothing compared to being in charge of whether my home is elegantly enough appointed, my holiday functions are thrown with cheer/attended with style, my free-range turkey is bribed or turduckened or whatever, my corporate partners (whom I have dumped! Ha!) are appeased, my family beloved and my children’s childhood made complete with happy memories...and now, of course, all that is accomplished in line with my post-consumer values. So now it has to be ethically sourced sugar and I have to see if Ten Thousand Villages is a scam.
Also, I am supposed to be happy at Christmas and over the years I sort of? Have managed it despite the fact that I spent many early Christmases being jokester and raped. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one out there with this additional joy.
I used to actually be nominally in charge of online Christmas editorial for a major women’s magazine and joked that I ran The Christmas Machine (a particular irony in light of my history) so I have spent more time thinking about this both as a person and as a professional and as a person wondering if my job was wrecking people and the planet than I care to. So I expend this emotional labour in full awareness of what it costs and who it benefits.
And yet
And I’m going to say that I actually have arrived at astonishment that a) we humans have this incredible desire and capacity for joy and connection and b) an amazing way of going overboard and screwing it up and c) making it women’s work, enforced by women, to keep it all going.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:20 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I actually believe that as the concept of emotional labour spreads, Christmas will grind to a halt. For many years I have been the cookie manufacturer for the coworker/teacher/neighbour gift tradition and while I do enjoy myself to some extent, it’s tiring. And there’s always a teacher on Facebook saying they don’t want calories from the proles’ germ-ridden homes anyway, please send Starbucks gift cards. But I probably won’t because frankly the cookies cost me $2 + time and $2 doesn’t get you a pumpkin spiced anything at the ‘bucks.
But that is nothing compared to being in charge of whether my home is elegantly enough appointed, my holiday functions are thrown with cheer/attended with style, my free-range turkey is bribed or turduckened or whatever, my corporate partners (whom I have dumped! Ha!) are appeased, my family beloved and my children’s childhood made complete with happy memories...and now, of course, all that is accomplished in line with my post-consumer values. So now it has to be ethically sourced sugar and I have to see if Ten Thousand Villages is a scam.
Also, I am supposed to be happy at Christmas and over the years I sort of? Have managed it despite the fact that I spent many early Christmases being jokester and raped. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one out there with this additional joy.
I used to actually be nominally in charge of online Christmas editorial for a major women’s magazine and joked that I ran The Christmas Machine (a particular irony in light of my history) so I have spent more time thinking about this both as a person and as a professional and as a person wondering if my job was wrecking people and the planet than I care to. So I expend this emotional labour in full awareness of what it costs and who it benefits.
And yet
And I’m going to say that I actually have arrived at astonishment that a) we humans have this incredible desire and capacity for joy and connection and b) an amazing way of going overboard and screwing it up and c) making it women’s work, enforced by women, to keep it all going.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:20 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I kind of like the idea of giving everyone on my Christmas list a poem.
In fact ...
Roses are red
violets are blue
I'm glad I'm me
and not you
Burma Shave
posted by Chitownfats at 4:42 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
In fact ...
Roses are red
violets are blue
I'm glad I'm me
and not you
Burma Shave
posted by Chitownfats at 4:42 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I haven't celebrated Christmas for decades, and I don't miss it a bit. My family of origin is extremely Guess Culture, which makes gift-giving particularly fraught. See, it's gauche to ask for something you want, unless you're under the age of thirteen or so. It's also gauche to ask people if there's something they want and get it for them. What you're supposed to do is notice and remember, throughout the year, as your relatives talk about things they like and things they don't like, and thoughtfully choose the perfect item for them, but it can't be too expensive because that's really over-the-top, and it can't be too cheap because that's just tacky, and there shouldn't be too much of a disparity between gifts for different people, because everyone should get something roughly equal to what they give. This is exhausting.
posted by Daily Alice at 5:30 AM on October 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 5:30 AM on October 27, 2017 [10 favorites]
I do have one minor beef with my mom, which is that she likes to buy me books, and I prefer them in kindle format, but it bugs her that they're not wrappable in kindle format!
I don't know if this would be of interest to your mom or anyone else, but my solution to this comes from one year when a new John Grisham novel I had bought for my dad wasn't going to get there in time for Christmas.
I took an old Grisham novel from his collection, stuck a post-it with the not-yet-arrived novel's title on the front, and then wrote a one page "chapter one" of the new book (about a plucky lawyer! Who suspected something WASN'T RIGHT) and stuck it inside the front cover. My dad had something to unwrap, and he knew what the present was, even though the physical copy technically wasn't there yet.
I feel like this would also work for ebooks!
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:12 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't know if this would be of interest to your mom or anyone else, but my solution to this comes from one year when a new John Grisham novel I had bought for my dad wasn't going to get there in time for Christmas.
I took an old Grisham novel from his collection, stuck a post-it with the not-yet-arrived novel's title on the front, and then wrote a one page "chapter one" of the new book (about a plucky lawyer! Who suspected something WASN'T RIGHT) and stuck it inside the front cover. My dad had something to unwrap, and he knew what the present was, even though the physical copy technically wasn't there yet.
I feel like this would also work for ebooks!
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:12 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seems to me that if one finds oneself bribing the Christmas turkey, free-range or not, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
My mom and my mother-in-law are both big fans of Christmas, and very much into gift-giving. I don't think an attempt to stop the whole thing or calm it down to reasonable amounts of stuff-swapping or reduce it to giving each other cash or making donations would go over very well.
They have embraced Amazon wishlists over the last several years, which is helpful. But it's still difficult to pad them out with enough stuff that I might conceivably actually want. This is a thing that has to be done right about this time of year, if not earlier. I often struggle to put enough stuff on there to satisfy them, not me, and I still get complaints that my list is "empty" and piles of other things I never really wanted besides.
After last year in particular, I decided my wishlist is only for things I actually want, and there's really not a lot of that. Some books (though I already have too many unread ones waiting). A couple of bits of synth gear (mostly too expensive or inconveneint to acquire for gifts), but no other musical instruments because I've found my niche and I know what is just going to sit around unused. No stuff I'm not going to use, no toys and figures that collect dust. No clothes because I don't trust anything I haven't picked out and tried on myself. There are no computer games I want that I haven't already Kickstarted. No movies I'll watch more than once or twice.
What do I want? Trump in prison. Nazis and other bigots punched into silence. Massive tax hikes for the ultra-wealthy. Unviersal healthcare and UBI and not having to work for someone else's profits. Some house repairs and yard maintenance done. The dogs to stop messing the floor. Comfort. Peace. A back that isn't sore. Nice weather. A couple of old favorite restaurants to reopen. Mabye some accolades for my creative work.
posted by Foosnark at 8:15 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
They have embraced Amazon wishlists over the last several years, which is helpful. But it's still difficult to pad them out with enough stuff that I might conceivably actually want. This is a thing that has to be done right about this time of year, if not earlier. I often struggle to put enough stuff on there to satisfy them, not me, and I still get complaints that my list is "empty" and piles of other things I never really wanted besides.
After last year in particular, I decided my wishlist is only for things I actually want, and there's really not a lot of that. Some books (though I already have too many unread ones waiting). A couple of bits of synth gear (mostly too expensive or inconveneint to acquire for gifts), but no other musical instruments because I've found my niche and I know what is just going to sit around unused. No stuff I'm not going to use, no toys and figures that collect dust. No clothes because I don't trust anything I haven't picked out and tried on myself. There are no computer games I want that I haven't already Kickstarted. No movies I'll watch more than once or twice.
What do I want? Trump in prison. Nazis and other bigots punched into silence. Massive tax hikes for the ultra-wealthy. Unviersal healthcare and UBI and not having to work for someone else's profits. Some house repairs and yard maintenance done. The dogs to stop messing the floor. Comfort. Peace. A back that isn't sore. Nice weather. A couple of old favorite restaurants to reopen. Mabye some accolades for my creative work.
posted by Foosnark at 8:15 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think people consume and participate in massive gift-giving at Christmas largely because they don't know what else they would do. The holidays are uncomfortable for many families anyway. Family politics aside, though, the feeling I have is that people literally don't know another activity, other than buying things, to do with their time.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 8:25 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 8:25 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
jadepearl: "Err..are we cool with Quonsmas?"
The Quonsmas gifts I received last year were so thoughtful and joy-giving, I think I've become a better (at least, in my head) gift-giver because of it. Truly.
Now if only I can get the follow-through to happen...
posted by jillithd at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2017
The Quonsmas gifts I received last year were so thoughtful and joy-giving, I think I've become a better (at least, in my head) gift-giver because of it. Truly.
Now if only I can get the follow-through to happen...
posted by jillithd at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2017
I think you're missing the point. If I buy you a poop emoji sweater for $40
No, I get the point. I am just opposed to reducing gifts to their cash value and talking about them in terms of "destroyed" value, since there are other intangible forms of value that accompany them - even if I hate them. As others have noted, giving serves a wide number of social functions and I enjoy that they do.
I certainly agree with not buying crap, stemming the consumerist tide, and not buying people junk they won't want. To me (and fortunately my family) giving is a carefully thought-about near art form, and it's quite modest, and so it is fun for all of us, and there's little in terms of even monetary waste. But to talk about giving destroying wealth is to talk about giving as though it's supposed to be a mechanism for consumer satisfaction alone, and of course, it's not.
Or what Eyebrows said.
posted by Miko at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, I get the point. I am just opposed to reducing gifts to their cash value and talking about them in terms of "destroyed" value, since there are other intangible forms of value that accompany them - even if I hate them. As others have noted, giving serves a wide number of social functions and I enjoy that they do.
I certainly agree with not buying crap, stemming the consumerist tide, and not buying people junk they won't want. To me (and fortunately my family) giving is a carefully thought-about near art form, and it's quite modest, and so it is fun for all of us, and there's little in terms of even monetary waste. But to talk about giving destroying wealth is to talk about giving as though it's supposed to be a mechanism for consumer satisfaction alone, and of course, it's not.
Or what Eyebrows said.
posted by Miko at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can't believe neither the article on Scroogenomics nor the discussion here has touched on the fact that halfway across the world, there is already an annual tradition where people give each other cash. People across the world have been celebrating Lunar New Year with it's traditions for at least a millenia if not longer without becoming a Scrooge, or trying to increase economic utility, or feeling that giving cash lacks emotional warmth or connection.
I think giving cash on Lunar New Year kind of shows that our emotions have less to do with gifts vs. cash and more to do with what our culture, traditions, and social rituals are.
posted by FJT at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think giving cash on Lunar New Year kind of shows that our emotions have less to do with gifts vs. cash and more to do with what our culture, traditions, and social rituals are.
posted by FJT at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
Seems to me that if one finds oneself bribing the Christmas turkey, free-range or not, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.I have bribed the free-range Christmas turkey. He did not want to go into the little pen and he was far too big and aggressive for me to force him there. Whether this soon went terribly wrong depends on whether you look at it as I did, or as the turkey would have.
posted by clew at 12:07 PM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I just realized that the very first recorded Christmas present was gold.
Apparently, if it was OK to give money to Baby Jesus, it’s OK to give money to my lesser relatives.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:06 PM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Apparently, if it was OK to give money to Baby Jesus, it’s OK to give money to my lesser relatives.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:06 PM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't know how to handle this in my family, with an aunt who starts her Christmas shopping either in February or already bought you a second gift when she bought the one for this year. And of course she can't be the only one giving out gifts the following year because it would then mortify my own mom, who felt she was in competition with that side of the family before I was born. Each Christmas is a giant affair with 13 adults and 4 kids in one house and there had better be presents for everyone or PEOPLE WILL NOTICE.
I am definitely going the food/alcohol route this time, let me tell you.
posted by erratic meatsack at 2:21 PM on October 27, 2017
I am definitely going the food/alcohol route this time, let me tell you.
posted by erratic meatsack at 2:21 PM on October 27, 2017
Which is why I have made sure to let all the people in my life who give me gifts know that I like useful things, or experiences. Viola!
Yeah, but then you'll need a violin or two, and a cello, and it just gets out of hand.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:19 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but then you'll need a violin or two, and a cello, and it just gets out of hand.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:19 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
jim in austin: "Only ZERO DAYS for those of us who do not participate!!!"
INFINITE DAYS, surely.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:01 PM on October 28, 2017
INFINITE DAYS, surely.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:01 PM on October 28, 2017
There’s nothing they need, nothing they don’t own already, nothing they even want.
That's basically me, except I do want something, which is for Christmas to just be the fuck over already so I can get started on dreading next year's.
But since my family cannot be convinced not to bother with Christmas, birthday and Father's Day gifties for me, I'm glad the Oxfam Shop exists.
posted by flabdablet at 9:17 AM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's basically me, except I do want something, which is for Christmas to just be the fuck over already so I can get started on dreading next year's.
But since my family cannot be convinced not to bother with Christmas, birthday and Father's Day gifties for me, I'm glad the Oxfam Shop exists.
posted by flabdablet at 9:17 AM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
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And that of course means we're worthless as human beings! Off to the organ farms with us so we can generate some decent cash value.
posted by Miko at 3:08 PM on October 26, 2017 [18 favorites]