"That's gonna put some butts in the seats!"
January 4, 2024 8:10 PM Subscribe
25 YEARS AGO TODAY: Mankind (aka the Hardcore Legend Mick Foley) defeats The Rock (aka global movie star Dwayne Johnson) in a No Disqualification match for his first-ever WWF Heavyweight Championship. It's no exaggeration to say this match changed the destiny of two companies, as this match aired on the same night as WCW's infamous "Fingerpoke of Doom"
The storyline in brief is that The Rock had turned heel on Mankind -- his former tag team partner -- and joined with Vince McMahon at Survivor Series 1998 to become "The Corporate Champion". The crowd becomes completely unglued when Stone Cold Steve Austin made a return after a month away to help Mankind and throw big middle fingers at the McMahons.
In those days, RAW was pre-recorded, and this match had been taped about a week earlier. WWF's main competition at the time, WCW Nitro, was airing live episodes AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, and part of their swipes at the competition was to constantly spoil the results. WCW commentator Tony Schiavone made sure to mock the match results for the TV audience.
So, having given away the ending of the other show, Eric Bischoff -- the head writer for WCW -- felt confident that he could end the episode of Nitro with a big storyline swerve. In a match that had been hyped for weeks, "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan was going to face WCW Champion Kevin Nash for the title, except Hogan gave Nash just a single fingerpoke before he went down, revealing the whole affair to be a farce for Nash joining Hogan's NWO faction.
The result of such an unsatisfying finish: approximately 500,000 WCW fans switched away from Nitro a bit early to watch Mankind instead. WWF got the higher ratings that night, and in fact, WCW would never again beat WWF in the ratings for the remainder of the company's existence (which was about two more years). While there exists a laundry list of reasons why WCW lost control of the Monday Night Wars, it's hard not see this as the turning point that sealed its fate. (PS Tony Schiavone would eventually reuse "Butts In Seats" as the title of his memoirs.)
As a shoutout: "Reliving The War" is a great YouTube podcast by a really knowledgeable fellow who recaps each week in the Monday Night Wars between the two companies. Here's his episode about that fateful day.
The storyline in brief is that The Rock had turned heel on Mankind -- his former tag team partner -- and joined with Vince McMahon at Survivor Series 1998 to become "The Corporate Champion". The crowd becomes completely unglued when Stone Cold Steve Austin made a return after a month away to help Mankind and throw big middle fingers at the McMahons.
In those days, RAW was pre-recorded, and this match had been taped about a week earlier. WWF's main competition at the time, WCW Nitro, was airing live episodes AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, and part of their swipes at the competition was to constantly spoil the results. WCW commentator Tony Schiavone made sure to mock the match results for the TV audience.
So, having given away the ending of the other show, Eric Bischoff -- the head writer for WCW -- felt confident that he could end the episode of Nitro with a big storyline swerve. In a match that had been hyped for weeks, "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan was going to face WCW Champion Kevin Nash for the title, except Hogan gave Nash just a single fingerpoke before he went down, revealing the whole affair to be a farce for Nash joining Hogan's NWO faction.
The result of such an unsatisfying finish: approximately 500,000 WCW fans switched away from Nitro a bit early to watch Mankind instead. WWF got the higher ratings that night, and in fact, WCW would never again beat WWF in the ratings for the remainder of the company's existence (which was about two more years). While there exists a laundry list of reasons why WCW lost control of the Monday Night Wars, it's hard not see this as the turning point that sealed its fate. (PS Tony Schiavone would eventually reuse "Butts In Seats" as the title of his memoirs.)
As a shoutout: "Reliving The War" is a great YouTube podcast by a really knowledgeable fellow who recaps each week in the Monday Night Wars between the two companies. Here's his episode about that fateful day.
I love AEW and Stardom, and try to catch bits and pieces of anything great others do, but I completely missed this era. It often sounds insufferable but occasionally I completely understand the appeal and wish I could have seen it live.
This would have been amazing.
(Also, my introduction to Mick Foley was him talking about crying to Tori Amos songs and supporting SA survivors, so I do have certain tender feelings about the guy. Absolute legend.)
posted by seraphine at 10:16 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
This would have been amazing.
(Also, my introduction to Mick Foley was him talking about crying to Tori Amos songs and supporting SA survivors, so I do have certain tender feelings about the guy. Absolute legend.)
posted by seraphine at 10:16 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
I love the mental image of Bischoff writing up that ending, knowing full well what was going to be airing on the other channel and still proceeding with a jokey anticlimax. Great example of a confident, informed, and voluntary self-fuck, GoT-Season-8 tier.
posted by ZaphodB at 12:57 AM on January 5 [1 favorite]
posted by ZaphodB at 12:57 AM on January 5 [1 favorite]
It ain't pro wrestling if there ain't a plot twist and betrayal.
posted by grubi at 5:13 AM on January 5
posted by grubi at 5:13 AM on January 5
I've told this story elsewhere, but would like to share again. In 2013, my family of five went to Disneyland in Anaheim, CA. We were staying in the Disney Grand Californian, which has a side entry into Disney California Adventure Park (DCA).
It was our first day at the parks and we needed to go to the concierge desk to get our tickets. As a result, we were walking away from the side entry into DCA to go to the lobby. There was a crowd heading the other way.
Someone approached my ex-wife and asked if he was going in the correct direction for the side entrance to DCA. My ex replied that he was, then gave a "Disney finger point" in the direction his family and he should follow.
I didn't say a word, as I had swallowed my tongue realizing that she was speaking with Mick Foley. Having only seen him on TV, he was surprisingly tall and wide. He was also very polite! He thanked my ex for the confirmation, then shuffled off with his kids (his walk was quite poor at the time).
I suspect Mr. Foley had been in town for SummerSlam 2013, held in Los Angeles at the Staples Center. We saw his kids and him a few times over the next few days and each time my son, who is not a wrestling fan, always pointed him out as the "wrestling guy". Looked like they were having fun and, for the most part, folks let him be father with his kids.
Having read Foley's biographies, I know he likes amusement parks so part of me wasn't surprised to see him. On the other hand, it was really an unexpected star for me to see in Southern California.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 9:16 AM on January 5 [3 favorites]
It was our first day at the parks and we needed to go to the concierge desk to get our tickets. As a result, we were walking away from the side entry into DCA to go to the lobby. There was a crowd heading the other way.
Someone approached my ex-wife and asked if he was going in the correct direction for the side entrance to DCA. My ex replied that he was, then gave a "Disney finger point" in the direction his family and he should follow.
I didn't say a word, as I had swallowed my tongue realizing that she was speaking with Mick Foley. Having only seen him on TV, he was surprisingly tall and wide. He was also very polite! He thanked my ex for the confirmation, then shuffled off with his kids (his walk was quite poor at the time).
I suspect Mr. Foley had been in town for SummerSlam 2013, held in Los Angeles at the Staples Center. We saw his kids and him a few times over the next few days and each time my son, who is not a wrestling fan, always pointed him out as the "wrestling guy". Looked like they were having fun and, for the most part, folks let him be father with his kids.
Having read Foley's biographies, I know he likes amusement parks so part of me wasn't surprised to see him. On the other hand, it was really an unexpected star for me to see in Southern California.
posted by bacalao_y_betun at 9:16 AM on January 5 [3 favorites]
As someone who was working in the industry at the time (oh "WWF With Authority!", *sigh*) please let me say this with certainty:
It wasn't obvious that night that the game was over for WCW, but we all knew it was a colossal mistake. 1999 would be a year of mistakes for that company. But none of the mistakes would be as big as ruining the main event infront of one of the largest crowds to ever see a pro wrestling event.
There were almost 40,000 in attendance in the Georgia Dome. To put this into context: That's more people paying to see wrestling live than every single WrestleMania at that point (except for WrestleMania VI in Toronto).
The world of WCW fans were beyond-hyped to see Goldberg get his get-back, on basic cable TV. The smarks among us (heya!) knew that this was going to be an epic way to have ended Goldberg's undefeated streak on PPV (to hundreds of thousands of viewers) only to get back on top in front of millions of viewers on TV.
Instead: "butts in seats", the channel-flips of a half-million, the end of unstoppable monster Goldberg, and 6 months of nWo doing what they already had done from mid-96 until December 97. The end of the "Wolfpack nWo", the end of having a dirty-face nWo faction and a boring-heels nWo faction, instead just the worst of both sucking all of the oxygen out of the room.
Two sweet factions, reduced to one more meaningless glory run for Hogan.
posted by andreaazure at 3:52 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]
It wasn't obvious that night that the game was over for WCW, but we all knew it was a colossal mistake. 1999 would be a year of mistakes for that company. But none of the mistakes would be as big as ruining the main event infront of one of the largest crowds to ever see a pro wrestling event.
There were almost 40,000 in attendance in the Georgia Dome. To put this into context: That's more people paying to see wrestling live than every single WrestleMania at that point (except for WrestleMania VI in Toronto).
The world of WCW fans were beyond-hyped to see Goldberg get his get-back, on basic cable TV. The smarks among us (heya!) knew that this was going to be an epic way to have ended Goldberg's undefeated streak on PPV (to hundreds of thousands of viewers) only to get back on top in front of millions of viewers on TV.
Instead: "butts in seats", the channel-flips of a half-million, the end of unstoppable monster Goldberg, and 6 months of nWo doing what they already had done from mid-96 until December 97. The end of the "Wolfpack nWo", the end of having a dirty-face nWo faction and a boring-heels nWo faction, instead just the worst of both sucking all of the oxygen out of the room.
Two sweet factions, reduced to one more meaningless glory run for Hogan.
posted by andreaazure at 3:52 PM on January 5 [1 favorite]
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Mick Foley is the best person. In wrestling, sure, but that's nearly damning with faint praise. Mick is just the best person generally.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:57 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]