Over $100? Time to bring out the Big Guns
June 5, 2024 2:30 PM Subscribe
booking flights on a phone is crazy. that is a laptop activityThe tweet that spawned countless TikToks ("BIG purchases require a laptop screen for FULL visibility"), hot takes ("It's laptop activity when you're a beginner"), and thinkpieces ("Looking ahead, Gen Alpha will integrate AI seamlessly into all areas of their lives"). Young shoppers are indeed driving a shift towards mobile retail. But a big factor pushing things in this direction may simply be that retailers hate when you buy big things on your laptop: "People often prefer bigger screens and keyboards for pricier purchases—but merchants have more levers to pull on mobile". See also: How Each Generation Shops in 2023 [HubSpot] and Gen Z’s Device Preferences & Decision Drivers [Knit]
meanwhile i'm over here sitting at my desk in front of a honest-to-god *desktop computer* like some sort of barely sentient precambrian sludge
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:41 PM on June 5 [104 favorites]
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:41 PM on June 5 [104 favorites]
Active price shopping for tickets requires some thing more than a phone app.
Doesn’t help that airline sites seem to be tightly coupled to Sabre etc still
posted by torokunai at 2:44 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
Doesn’t help that airline sites seem to be tightly coupled to Sabre etc still
posted by torokunai at 2:44 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
Even on your PC you have to be careful when shopping. Recently my wife found something she liked during the Memorial Day Sale. It was the last day of the sale and when she went to go find it on her PC using her browser the site said they were sold out. I'd secretly sneaked off to my PC to buy it for her as a surprise. When the web browser asked for my location I blocked it. I found the item and got it bought. I was on my PC some five minutes after her.
As to mobile apps, they have all of your information once you installed and agreed to their terms. They definitely use that information to their advantage when it comes to pricing. It's been long observed that Apple users pay more at some sites than your run of the mill Windows user.
posted by DB_S at 2:44 PM on June 5 [12 favorites]
As to mobile apps, they have all of your information once you installed and agreed to their terms. They definitely use that information to their advantage when it comes to pricing. It's been long observed that Apple users pay more at some sites than your run of the mill Windows user.
posted by DB_S at 2:44 PM on June 5 [12 favorites]
count me in the big screen club. I don't like doing anything much more than ordering food or a book on the phone (in terms of expenditures). If it's something "real" you bet your sweet bippy I'm on the laptop looking through all the finer details.
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:56 PM on June 5 [12 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:56 PM on June 5 [12 favorites]
Wait 'til your eyes suck.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:57 PM on June 5 [13 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:57 PM on June 5 [13 favorites]
For me I have a window with a doc full of notes, and then a window with 400 tabs of prices and timings and other things I'm researching that I add to that notes, and I want to see both at once and switch between tabs easier than I can on mobile.
posted by aubilenon at 2:58 PM on June 5 [15 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 2:58 PM on June 5 [15 favorites]
When the web browser asked for my location I blocked it. I found the item and got it bought. I was on my PC some five minutes after her.
My daughter lives in California and when there were wildfires near her in the Bay area a few years back, she said she couldn't find N95 masks, in stores or online. I went on Amazon, found a big pack for cheap, put in her mailing address and ordered it , she had it in two days. From her computer, all were marked sold out, like, sitting in Oakland, nope, no masks for you.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:59 PM on June 5 [7 favorites]
My daughter lives in California and when there were wildfires near her in the Bay area a few years back, she said she couldn't find N95 masks, in stores or online. I went on Amazon, found a big pack for cheap, put in her mailing address and ordered it , she had it in two days. From her computer, all were marked sold out, like, sitting in Oakland, nope, no masks for you.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:59 PM on June 5 [7 favorites]
That kanebridgenews site really messed with my browser history. I would suggest people don't click on that link.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:05 PM on June 5 [9 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:05 PM on June 5 [9 favorites]
I’ve never used my phone to buy anything. I definitely use my 2-screen desktop PC and run it by my spouse, except for stuff like pizza.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:07 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:07 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
In my experience most hotel websites don't even work on a mobile browser.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 3:09 PM on June 5 [9 favorites]
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 3:09 PM on June 5 [9 favorites]
Somebody needs to study the equivalent intelligence decrease when posting/ emailing from a phone vs a computer. I deal with this every day.
posted by q*ben at 3:11 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
posted by q*ben at 3:11 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
grumpybear69: "That kanebridgenews site really messed with my browser history. I would suggest people don't click on that link."
I used that because it reprints the original (paywalled) WSJ story and seems to be a legitimate news outlet. If you don't have a subscription, archive.is has a mirror, though I've heard of some folks having compatibility issues with that site.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:14 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
I used that because it reprints the original (paywalled) WSJ story and seems to be a legitimate news outlet. If you don't have a subscription, archive.is has a mirror, though I've heard of some folks having compatibility issues with that site.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:14 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
I like doing anything that involves comparisons on a laptop browser, where it's easier to, y'know, compare products and prices. I also try to do initial browsing -- when I have no idea exactly what I want, where I should buy it, and how much I should pay -- through Firefox private browsing to avoid picking up cookies that will mark me as a sucker, but I don't know if that actually helps...?
A lot of companies have special discounts on the app that are not available on desktop. This is easily surmountable if you create an account with the company, load up the cart with what you want on desktop, then download the app to complete the purchase with your extra 15% off (or whatever). The process is slightly annoying but worth doing for the extra 15% off (or whatever). Plus, I like to imagine some 90s-style comedic big business villain realizing people are using this workaround and cursing my name.
I'm surprised by the "companies should take a stance on social justice issues" thing. I guess it's nice when a company embraces a not-evil position, but mostly because it messages that that position is mainstream enough to be marketable. And it's nice that they're at least signaling being on the "good" side, because otherwise I have to try to decide whether I want to drive an extra ten minutes or pay more to avoid giving the shitty store money. (I will climb any mountain to avoid giving money to Hobby Lobby, but Home Depot is just, like, so much closer than any competitors.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:17 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
A lot of companies have special discounts on the app that are not available on desktop. This is easily surmountable if you create an account with the company, load up the cart with what you want on desktop, then download the app to complete the purchase with your extra 15% off (or whatever). The process is slightly annoying but worth doing for the extra 15% off (or whatever). Plus, I like to imagine some 90s-style comedic big business villain realizing people are using this workaround and cursing my name.
I'm surprised by the "companies should take a stance on social justice issues" thing. I guess it's nice when a company embraces a not-evil position, but mostly because it messages that that position is mainstream enough to be marketable. And it's nice that they're at least signaling being on the "good" side, because otherwise I have to try to decide whether I want to drive an extra ten minutes or pay more to avoid giving the shitty store money. (I will climb any mountain to avoid giving money to Hobby Lobby, but Home Depot is just, like, so much closer than any competitors.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:17 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
q*ben: "Somebody needs to study the equivalent intelligence decrease when posting/ emailing from a phone vs a computer. I deal with this every day."
Same here! I'm pretty deft with swipe-typing, but for some reason I always have a harder time ordering my thoughts on mobile -- tend to repeat words and make more careless mistakes. Tablet typing feels like a middle ground. I don't know if it's purely about the amount of text you can see at once or the comparative clunkiness of mobile text editing or what, but the effect is real.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:17 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
Same here! I'm pretty deft with swipe-typing, but for some reason I always have a harder time ordering my thoughts on mobile -- tend to repeat words and make more careless mistakes. Tablet typing feels like a middle ground. I don't know if it's purely about the amount of text you can see at once or the comparative clunkiness of mobile text editing or what, but the effect is real.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:17 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
i shop local
posted by HearHere at 3:20 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
posted by HearHere at 3:20 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
I see your 6" iPhone screen and raise you dual 27" 4k monitors.
For me, it is not price, it is complexity of the purchase decision.
For "complicated" purchases like flights I want a big screen so I can keep various combinations of the flights, prices, and schedules visible and quickly compare between them. This is before you even get to factors like search history impacting prices.
Simple things like a new MacBook where they don't screw with the pricing can be done on a phone. Pick the base model, the color, memory, and hit "buy." There really is no need to have to cross reference a bunch of variables.
posted by SegFaultCoreDump at 3:28 PM on June 5 [11 favorites]
For me, it is not price, it is complexity of the purchase decision.
For "complicated" purchases like flights I want a big screen so I can keep various combinations of the flights, prices, and schedules visible and quickly compare between them. This is before you even get to factors like search history impacting prices.
Simple things like a new MacBook where they don't screw with the pricing can be done on a phone. Pick the base model, the color, memory, and hit "buy." There really is no need to have to cross reference a bunch of variables.
posted by SegFaultCoreDump at 3:28 PM on June 5 [11 favorites]
It's been long observed that Apple users pay more at some sites than your run of the mill Windows user.
Reminds me of Hank Green's recent video, STOP Subscribing to Things on your Phone!!!!
Apparently if you buy an app on an iPhone your monthly subscription rate might be inflated. They take a little every month! UGH
posted by Glinn at 3:30 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
Reminds me of Hank Green's recent video, STOP Subscribing to Things on your Phone!!!!
Apparently if you buy an app on an iPhone your monthly subscription rate might be inflated. They take a little every month! UGH
posted by Glinn at 3:30 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
You’re all younguns. I buy things using a phone to my broker, who places buy orders across a trading floor using complicated open-outcry hand signals, recording completed orders in crayon on paper slips, which he drops to the floor to be collected and compiled by sweepers at the end of the day.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:48 PM on June 5 [16 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:48 PM on June 5 [16 favorites]
Funny. A few minutes ago I was actually at a couple of retail sites on my phone and, holy crap, they were utterly unusable. The formatting was all over the place. Images overlapping text, text running off the screen, nav bar taking up a third of the screen. They were mobile train wrecks.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:01 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:01 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
i refinanced a mortgage entirely on my apple watch.
posted by mullacc at 4:06 PM on June 5 [27 favorites]
posted by mullacc at 4:06 PM on June 5 [27 favorites]
Look, a laptop is fine for purchases in the $100-$5000 range, but above that you'll need a mini tower, and I won't touch anything over $10k with anything less than a full ATX and a mechanical keyboard.
posted by phooky at 4:08 PM on June 5 [22 favorites]
posted by phooky at 4:08 PM on June 5 [22 favorites]
Gonna need at least a mid sized tablet for this purchase.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
In 2015 or before, a friend from Norway was visiting and sold her Oslo flat via text! I was so impressed - a real estate transaction via phone. I would never. Some kind of secure app was involved where everyone submitted bids and then all the signatures happened that way too.
In another tab just before I clicked in to write this comment, I booked a flight and then an airbnb. Count me as one of those.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 4:34 PM on June 5
In another tab just before I clicked in to write this comment, I booked a flight and then an airbnb. Count me as one of those.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 4:34 PM on June 5
I do all my bigger purchases on a full tower gaming PC, with two 27" 144Hz monitors, the way nature intended. I do buy a lot of things from Amazon from my phone, as well as movie tickets.
posted by exolstice at 4:54 PM on June 5
posted by exolstice at 4:54 PM on June 5
Yeah, I'm not buying shit from my phone. I don't even do much web browsing from my phone. Give me real estate.
posted by maxwelton at 5:23 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 5:23 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
It's much easier to push dark patterns and other abusive processes on the consumer on a smaller screen. End of story.
Occasionally I just try to read something on the web on my phone and I'm appalled by how intrusive and actively user-hostile the design is.
posted by praemunire at 5:31 PM on June 5 [18 favorites]
Occasionally I just try to read something on the web on my phone and I'm appalled by how intrusive and actively user-hostile the design is.
posted by praemunire at 5:31 PM on June 5 [18 favorites]
Yeah, I can’t stand buying much on my phone because so many mobile website are absolutely horrid to use; but what’s worse is that young people have never known anything else and probably just think this is normal and how the web always was.
posted by rhymedirective at 5:34 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 5:34 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
I did a $350000 transaction on my phone once. It went fine but I don't want to make a habit of it.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 5:36 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 5:36 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
For "complicated" purchases like flights I want a big screen so I can keep various combinations of the flights, prices, and schedules visible and quickly compare between them. This is before you even get to factors like search history impacting prices.
Google's flight web app works differently between mobile and desktop. On desktop, you can adjust your trip by individual days and see the difference in pricing. The mobile version of the same site does not let you do this. It can definitely be more helpful to shop online with a desktop gadget.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:41 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
Google's flight web app works differently between mobile and desktop. On desktop, you can adjust your trip by individual days and see the difference in pricing. The mobile version of the same site does not let you do this. It can definitely be more helpful to shop online with a desktop gadget.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:41 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
I try to avoid letting my phone know too much about me. I've locked it down into my own control (as opposed to that of Google or the manufacturer or wireless carrier, all of whom potentially have privileged access to phones that owners don't get) to the extent possible, which is pretty minimal.
I have much more control over my laptop, and I'm a lot more comfortable using it even though I'm uncomfortably aware of many awful exploits that could get me. Thing is, the phone's attack surface is much larger and I have much less ability to mitigate it. So, I don't trust a phone with financial information if I can help it, and try to avoid leaking as much personal info as I can.
Airplane mode is pretty good, if it's not a lie. It does seem to extend battery life.
Phones are mostly good for games imo... yay pixel dungeon
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 5:49 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
I have much more control over my laptop, and I'm a lot more comfortable using it even though I'm uncomfortably aware of many awful exploits that could get me. Thing is, the phone's attack surface is much larger and I have much less ability to mitigate it. So, I don't trust a phone with financial information if I can help it, and try to avoid leaking as much personal info as I can.
Airplane mode is pretty good, if it's not a lie. It does seem to extend battery life.
Phones are mostly good for games imo... yay pixel dungeon
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 5:49 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
Kind of a weird article. The writer seems to think that the only devices which exist are phones and laptops. Apparently desktop computers and tablets aren’t real.
posted by tdismukes at 6:06 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]
posted by tdismukes at 6:06 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]
yay pixel dungeon
Total derail, but I've been playing the original pixel dungeon for nigh on a decade now.
I'm at the tail end of gen x and totally get the big purchases big screen thing. A - my eyes just ain't that good anymore B - I want to have lots of tabs and windows open for comparison C - less shady business on a pc than on a phone
That said, I have made (well, intiated) large real estate purchases through phone apps, and also (not in the US) moved hundreds of thousands of dollars using mobile banking apps. In these two specific cases though, the real estate purchases are only started on the app and then there are various in-person hoops to jump through, so not that much can go wrong. And for using mobile banking, the apps I use have nice interfaces with big enough text and large enough buttons that in some ways it is more comfortable to use mobile.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:06 PM on June 5
Total derail, but I've been playing the original pixel dungeon for nigh on a decade now.
I'm at the tail end of gen x and totally get the big purchases big screen thing. A - my eyes just ain't that good anymore B - I want to have lots of tabs and windows open for comparison C - less shady business on a pc than on a phone
That said, I have made (well, intiated) large real estate purchases through phone apps, and also (not in the US) moved hundreds of thousands of dollars using mobile banking apps. In these two specific cases though, the real estate purchases are only started on the app and then there are various in-person hoops to jump through, so not that much can go wrong. And for using mobile banking, the apps I use have nice interfaces with big enough text and large enough buttons that in some ways it is more comfortable to use mobile.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:06 PM on June 5
It's much easier to push dark patterns and other abusive processes on the consumer on a smaller screen. End of story.
I really think this is it. The ecosystem of the internet as exists on desktop or laptop screens, evolved a lot earlier than mobile. By the time the mobile ecosystem was coming up, corporations knew this was A Thing, and moved into a space of more tightly controlling the user experience. More corporate control of the experience, more abusive patterns. More abuse, higher profits.
Of course they hate desktops. (They're trying to do the same thing to desktops.)
posted by mrgoat at 6:07 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
I really think this is it. The ecosystem of the internet as exists on desktop or laptop screens, evolved a lot earlier than mobile. By the time the mobile ecosystem was coming up, corporations knew this was A Thing, and moved into a space of more tightly controlling the user experience. More corporate control of the experience, more abusive patterns. More abuse, higher profits.
Of course they hate desktops. (They're trying to do the same thing to desktops.)
posted by mrgoat at 6:07 PM on June 5 [4 favorites]
plebs
i buy my choice of countries and political parties with a twitch of my very analog eyebrow
posted by lalochezia at 6:37 PM on June 5 [5 favorites]
i buy my choice of countries and political parties with a twitch of my very analog eyebrow
posted by lalochezia at 6:37 PM on June 5 [5 favorites]
Apparently desktop computers and tablets aren’t real.
I think that for the most part, Gen Z don't have desktop computers unless they're gamers. Don't know about tablets but for me they're just slightly larger phones that I can't do anything with unless I'm on Wi-Fi - for me, when it comes to buying things, they miss out on the big selling point of phones, which is that I can buy things when I'm running errands or on the bus. (Admittedly, I don't really shop on my phone except to buy a digital book or mobile game when I'm very bored.)
posted by Jeanne at 6:39 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
I think that for the most part, Gen Z don't have desktop computers unless they're gamers. Don't know about tablets but for me they're just slightly larger phones that I can't do anything with unless I'm on Wi-Fi - for me, when it comes to buying things, they miss out on the big selling point of phones, which is that I can buy things when I'm running errands or on the bus. (Admittedly, I don't really shop on my phone except to buy a digital book or mobile game when I'm very bored.)
posted by Jeanne at 6:39 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
Occasionally I just try to read something on the web on my phone and I'm appalled by how intrusive and actively user-hostile the design is.
Same experience here.
I've taken to use my RSS reader on the phone to quickly skim news, then forward myself the articles needing serious reading on my laptop/desktop.
Definitely can't read digital comics on the tinyphone. (One reason I'm looking into Folds for the next machine)
posted by doctornemo at 6:50 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
Same experience here.
I've taken to use my RSS reader on the phone to quickly skim news, then forward myself the articles needing serious reading on my laptop/desktop.
Definitely can't read digital comics on the tinyphone. (One reason I'm looking into Folds for the next machine)
posted by doctornemo at 6:50 PM on June 5 [1 favorite]
I'm at a big ol' desktop now, where I prefer to type comments and do the big shops, but I have to say, I've TWICE saved the day when real Gen Xers* didn't think to whip out their phone and purchase a new plane ticket. They already made me use the app to check in, so I defeated a line of people at a counter to snag the last two tickets to an alternate airport during a weather delay, and in the other case dealt with a very stupid error so last minute we were in the TSA line. The portability power is fantastic for events like this, but if I'm home, I'll go boot up the desktop instead.
*I say real Gen Xers because this is the weirdest division of generations I've seen in a while and it places me there, instead of my more traditional 'geriatric millennial' placement.
posted by cobaltnine at 7:35 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
*I say real Gen Xers because this is the weirdest division of generations I've seen in a while and it places me there, instead of my more traditional 'geriatric millennial' placement.
posted by cobaltnine at 7:35 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
real Gen Xers* didn't think to whip out their phone and purchase a new plane ticket. They already made me use the app to check in, so I defeated a line of people at a counter to snag the last two tickets to an alternate airport during a weather delay
The way the airline apps are set up this is a pretty simple process--much simpler than researching a trip in the first place. Says this Gen Xer (real, I think?). Honestly don't even think of this use as a "purchase." They're not taking more of my money, they're rerouting an existing ticket.
posted by praemunire at 9:46 PM on June 5
The way the airline apps are set up this is a pretty simple process--much simpler than researching a trip in the first place. Says this Gen Xer (real, I think?). Honestly don't even think of this use as a "purchase." They're not taking more of my money, they're rerouting an existing ticket.
posted by praemunire at 9:46 PM on June 5
Are Gen Z'ers actually buying air tickets on their phones? Because that seems unlikely for a demographic relatively short on cash.
The demographic that I can most easily see buying air tickets on their phones is well-heeled businesspeople who are Gen X or millenial.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:04 PM on June 5
The demographic that I can most easily see buying air tickets on their phones is well-heeled businesspeople who are Gen X or millenial.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:04 PM on June 5
I actually wondered if the drive for bigger phones and phablets was in line with the generation of designers and engineers declining vision?
My perfect form-factor is the iPhone 4 but my 50+ year old eyesight strongly disagrees.
I rarely do anything critical on a phone browser - its just too small and I'm a fumble fingers.
posted by phigmov at 10:18 PM on June 5
My perfect form-factor is the iPhone 4 but my 50+ year old eyesight strongly disagrees.
I rarely do anything critical on a phone browser - its just too small and I'm a fumble fingers.
posted by phigmov at 10:18 PM on June 5
Standing on a platform in Duesseldorf waiting for a train that is 40 minutes late and realizing that there is no way DB will make the connections to get me home that day, it's super convenient to whip out a phone, run Kayak on some browser and find and buy a plane ticket in the space of like three minutes. At least according to this Gen-xer.
posted by St. Oops at 10:26 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 10:26 PM on June 5 [3 favorites]
Of course, living in a world where trains are more frequent and reliable, making air travel and these kinds of transactions unnecessary would be even better.
posted by St. Oops at 10:33 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 10:33 PM on June 5 [2 favorites]
I don't think there even exists Microsoft Flight Simulator for mobile... How are people doing a test run of their flights before purchasing tickets without a PC?!
posted by UN at 10:34 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]
posted by UN at 10:34 PM on June 5 [6 favorites]
Surely this is just the illusion of free choice - whether you shop from a computer or a phone, a complex set of tools is arrayed against you. Turning off location, using a different device, all of these are cargo-cult like misapprehensions about the true nature of shopping online. Did you make sure you don’t have any cookies that show identity markers? Is your internet provider’s IP range allowed to access these sites? Is your bank transaction software properly configured?
posted by The River Ivel at 12:23 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
posted by The River Ivel at 12:23 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
Cory Doctorow just wrote about " retailers hate when you buy big things on your laptop" -- The apps allow them to spy on you and change prices accordingly.
"The majority of web users have installed ad-blockers that interfere with the surveillance that makes surveillance pricing possible" and "apps are a closed platform, and reverse-engineering and modifying an app is a literal felony – several felonies, in fact. An app is just a web-page skinned with enough IP to make it a felony to modify it to protect your consumer, privacy or labor rights"
https://pluralistic.net/2024/06/05/your-price-named/#privacy-first-again
I try to avoid apps wherever I can.
posted by wrm at 12:39 AM on June 6 [5 favorites]
"The majority of web users have installed ad-blockers that interfere with the surveillance that makes surveillance pricing possible" and "apps are a closed platform, and reverse-engineering and modifying an app is a literal felony – several felonies, in fact. An app is just a web-page skinned with enough IP to make it a felony to modify it to protect your consumer, privacy or labor rights"
https://pluralistic.net/2024/06/05/your-price-named/#privacy-first-again
I try to avoid apps wherever I can.
posted by wrm at 12:39 AM on June 6 [5 favorites]
Surely this is just the illusion of free choice - whether you shop from a computer or a phone, a complex set of tools is arrayed against you.
I'm not informed enough to comment on the privacy implications of web vs. app shopping, but personally, I find decision fatigue sets in much faster and I make worse choices when I shop on mobile due to the added friction of small text, small images, endless scrolling, inability to view multiple tabs at once, difficulty of copy/pasting into note-keeping app, etc. Not such a big deal if I'm dithering between Filet-o-Fish and Crispy Chicken, moreso if I'm buying a €300 small appliance or trying to organize a trans-continental voyage.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 1:26 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
I'm not informed enough to comment on the privacy implications of web vs. app shopping, but personally, I find decision fatigue sets in much faster and I make worse choices when I shop on mobile due to the added friction of small text, small images, endless scrolling, inability to view multiple tabs at once, difficulty of copy/pasting into note-keeping app, etc. Not such a big deal if I'm dithering between Filet-o-Fish and Crispy Chicken, moreso if I'm buying a €300 small appliance or trying to organize a trans-continental voyage.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 1:26 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
"The majority of web users have installed ad-blockers that interfere with the surveillance that makes surveillance pricing possible"
My Firefox is so loaded with abuse-blockers that some sites simply don't work at all. Oddly enough life goes on just fine without those sites in my life.
posted by DreamerFi at 3:48 AM on June 6 [7 favorites]
My Firefox is so loaded with abuse-blockers that some sites simply don't work at all. Oddly enough life goes on just fine without those sites in my life.
posted by DreamerFi at 3:48 AM on June 6 [7 favorites]
Reading through the responses here my first reaction was to nod in agreement, then to look for a Gen Z perspective only to find none (at least nothing obvious) then to laugh in realisation that of course Gen z isn’t using anything as old school as an internet forum. Sigh. We shall have to be the keepers of the old ways of the internet for these young uns.
posted by Flecks of light at 4:19 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
posted by Flecks of light at 4:19 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
booking flights on a phone is crazy. that is a laptop activityThe first time I saw that -out of context- I thought, yeah, it's crazy to just call someone and place an order like we used to; who is doing that these days? You don't even get an immediate receipt! The travel agency I used to use is out of business.
Which just goes to show how old I am. I don't have a laptop or tablet, and I only use my phone for calls and pictures, because I have long depended on a huge desktop display that I can easily see. Now, get off my lawn!
posted by Miss Cellania at 4:49 AM on June 6
i refinanced a mortgage entirely on my apple watch.
You're probably joking but this is giving me hives. My husband signed the mortgage documents on his phone. I COULD NOT.
posted by subdee at 5:07 AM on June 6 [5 favorites]
You're probably joking but this is giving me hives. My husband signed the mortgage documents on his phone. I COULD NOT.
posted by subdee at 5:07 AM on June 6 [5 favorites]
I guess I'm a millennial, almost gen x, but I've been buying flight tickets online since 2004 or so and on my mobile device for maybe 4-5 years now or possibly even longer...
I'm quite aware of dark UX patterns and price 'adjustments' and honestly I think some of the problems mentioned here are a bit overblown. You can get very inexpensive flights on a tiny device, it's fine. The online services that price scam you for using a mobile device will equally scam you when you use a desktop, windows or Mac or the time of day you try to book. Doesn't matter.
If you're assuming you're getting a good price because you're on a desktop, you're probably getting a bad deal. The olds have the money and if that's what they're using, ....
Using multiple tabs to do research on mobile devices is totally doable — not for everyone, for sure. But those that can do it, do do it.
posted by UN at 5:15 AM on June 6
I'm quite aware of dark UX patterns and price 'adjustments' and honestly I think some of the problems mentioned here are a bit overblown. You can get very inexpensive flights on a tiny device, it's fine. The online services that price scam you for using a mobile device will equally scam you when you use a desktop, windows or Mac or the time of day you try to book. Doesn't matter.
If you're assuming you're getting a good price because you're on a desktop, you're probably getting a bad deal. The olds have the money and if that's what they're using, ....
Using multiple tabs to do research on mobile devices is totally doable — not for everyone, for sure. But those that can do it, do do it.
posted by UN at 5:15 AM on June 6
Reading through the responses here my first reaction was to nod in agreement, then to look for a Gen Z perspective only to find none (at least nothing obvious) then to laugh in realisation that of course Gen z isn’t using anything as old school as an internet forum.
This should be nailed to the virtual door like Martin Luther and his Ninety-Five Theses. While a lot of us clearly use mobile for purchases and others of us do not, at the end of the day, we are using old school method to talk about things. The world changes and moves on without us, whether we like it or not. Gen Z ain't gonna show up here anytime soon and I expect in about a decade, we will be putting the chairs on the tables and turning out the lights.
/end of derail
posted by Kitteh at 5:32 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]
This should be nailed to the virtual door like Martin Luther and his Ninety-Five Theses. While a lot of us clearly use mobile for purchases and others of us do not, at the end of the day, we are using old school method to talk about things. The world changes and moves on without us, whether we like it or not. Gen Z ain't gonna show up here anytime soon and I expect in about a decade, we will be putting the chairs on the tables and turning out the lights.
/end of derail
posted by Kitteh at 5:32 AM on June 6 [2 favorites]
If I may offer a little insight as someone who works in e-commerce. I found the WSJ article title to be a little sensationalized. Retailers do not hate desktop sales, but they do love mobile sales. It all comes down to conversion rate - the number of visits that actually convert to a purchase. Conversion rate is much higher on desktop than on mobile. At the same time retailers are seeing large increases in mobile traffic. So the logic is, if we increase conversion rate on mobile then we get more money! There is very little appetite for “Hey, this is the same user browsing on mobile and then converting on desktop”. Ultimately, there’s a marketing manager that can pull some levers on mobile-only sales (etc) to bump up mobile conversion rate, so the year-over-year numbers look good. Then they get to add this to their resume and move on to the next, larger retailer. Rinse and repeat.
posted by LoraT at 5:58 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
posted by LoraT at 5:58 AM on June 6 [3 favorites]
If you're assuming you're getting a good price because you're on a desktop, you're probably getting a bad deal. The olds have the money and if that's what they're using, ....
At the risk of going a little off-topic, are there really better flight deals to be had using apps vs. Google Flights -> airline webpage? I only fly once or twice a year, but they are big-ticket transatlantic flights where even 5% off would be very welcome...
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 6:03 AM on June 6
At the risk of going a little off-topic, are there really better flight deals to be had using apps vs. Google Flights -> airline webpage? I only fly once or twice a year, but they are big-ticket transatlantic flights where even 5% off would be very welcome...
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 6:03 AM on June 6
I can't make adblockers work right on my phone, so I stripped it of everything I could a couple of years ago and have never looked back. I just use it for the actual telephone, texting, sometimes (very reluctantly) work email, and once in a while the maps thing. It has improved my life so very much. There's nothing on the phone, so I just look around and daydream instead of staring at it. I'm in this ongoing war with my work IT department because I'll only use the "call your phone" option for two-factor authentication and they keep trying to make me install an app, and I'm like fuck no I will not install an app for anything, not this, not fast food that I don't eat anyway, nothing.
My wife cannot stop looking at her phone, scrolling goddamn Facebook, and she gets so CRANKY because the first things I deleted were Facebook and Messenger, and she cannot handle it that she has to actually text me instead of using Messenger. Get off my lawn!
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 6:22 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
My wife cannot stop looking at her phone, scrolling goddamn Facebook, and she gets so CRANKY because the first things I deleted were Facebook and Messenger, and she cannot handle it that she has to actually text me instead of using Messenger. Get off my lawn!
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 6:22 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
The bit about Gen Z using phones, but ALSO preferring PCs (over tablets) rings true to me. The ones who get seriously into PC culture are nerds and gamers, same as it ever was.
Plus they use laptops and not tablets for school... though a chromebook with a touch screen is basically a tablet with a keyboard attached.
posted by subdee at 7:24 AM on June 6
Plus they use laptops and not tablets for school... though a chromebook with a touch screen is basically a tablet with a keyboard attached.
posted by subdee at 7:24 AM on June 6
Are Gen Z'ers actually buying air tickets on their phones? Because that seems unlikely for a demographic relatively short on cash https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/04/16/generation-z-is-unprecedentedly-rich
posted by HearHere at 7:40 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
posted by HearHere at 7:40 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
My mother does not trust the internet for large purchases. She goes to a brick and mortar travel agency to book flights.
A couple of years ago I was very surprised when she got transatlantic flights cheaper there than anything I could find online using all the tricks (ad blockers, privacy protection, VPN, leaving it in the cart for a few days, etc)
My wife tried an online travel agency where you talk to actual people and they do the research and booking for you. She got a great deal for a week long vacation, at just slightly cheaper than I could find online, but without the hassle.
In the articles framework, looks like doing it the Boomer way may have benefits.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:23 AM on June 6 [4 favorites]
A couple of years ago I was very surprised when she got transatlantic flights cheaper there than anything I could find online using all the tricks (ad blockers, privacy protection, VPN, leaving it in the cart for a few days, etc)
My wife tried an online travel agency where you talk to actual people and they do the research and booking for you. She got a great deal for a week long vacation, at just slightly cheaper than I could find online, but without the hassle.
In the articles framework, looks like doing it the Boomer way may have benefits.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:23 AM on June 6 [4 favorites]
I do most of my purchasing/banking/whatnot during the weekdays on my work laptop during the work day (on breaks, I swear, and it's fine according to my organisation's web use policies and I don't work for a snoopy corporation that I need to hide my stuff from, so shush). I actually barely even use my personal laptop for it. I'm already on a laptop so why would I do the thing on my phone? I wonder if that's part of what's going on between the generations' online purchasing habits. I'll sometimes do the research on my computer and then make the purchase or booking on my phone for some kind of discount or loyalty points perk, but that's about it. I have no particular issue with it, it's just not what I'm using, usually.
posted by urbanlenny at 8:24 AM on June 6
posted by urbanlenny at 8:24 AM on June 6
Phones are great for train / plane tickets and hotel booking. Sometimes concert tickets. I once reserved a hotel room and booked a flight from an airplane in mid-air as we were getting diverted to some random airport during a storm. Everything was pointing in the "you are going to spend the night sleeping at baggage claim" direction and I was all "NO SIREE BOB I SHALL NOT" and managed to get it all done as we were descending into the Savannah airport. The hotel bar ended up being a sad trombone but at least I had a bed.
Laptops are perfect for work, gaming, long-form communication and (IMO) social media management. I absolutely do not do any banking on my phone because the last thing I need is for my phone to get swiped and someone has access to my banking info.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:28 AM on June 6
Laptops are perfect for work, gaming, long-form communication and (IMO) social media management. I absolutely do not do any banking on my phone because the last thing I need is for my phone to get swiped and someone has access to my banking info.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:28 AM on June 6
At the risk of going a little off-topic, are there really better flight deals to be had using apps vs. Google Flights -> airline webpage? I only fly once or twice a year, but they are big-ticket transatlantic flights where even 5% off would be very welcome...
I'm not sure if I'm misreading the main post but in my comment I'm referring to Desktop Web vs. Mobile Web, using the browser for both — not an app.
I haven't seen a difference in pricing between those.
I've usually had better luck with Skyscanner over Google flights. The more flexible I set the dates to be, the more likely I can get a cheaper flight. Often it's enough going the day before or after, if that's an option. It'll save a few hundred bucks sometimes.
These days some airline websites are ok too and usually don't suffer from the sudden price increase one often gets when moving from a search site to the airline website.
posted by UN at 9:51 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure if I'm misreading the main post but in my comment I'm referring to Desktop Web vs. Mobile Web, using the browser for both — not an app.
I haven't seen a difference in pricing between those.
I've usually had better luck with Skyscanner over Google flights. The more flexible I set the dates to be, the more likely I can get a cheaper flight. Often it's enough going the day before or after, if that's an option. It'll save a few hundred bucks sometimes.
These days some airline websites are ok too and usually don't suffer from the sudden price increase one often gets when moving from a search site to the airline website.
posted by UN at 9:51 AM on June 6 [1 favorite]
I’m sure there are some sites and retailers that have actual expertise in data mining dark patterns, but my experience is that 99.8% of companies have no time for any of that because they are too busy just trying to draw 6 red lines, but 2 of them green.
posted by funkaspuck at 10:44 AM on June 6
posted by funkaspuck at 10:44 AM on June 6
" It all comes down to conversion rate - the number of visits that actually convert to a purchase. "
I think retailers are confused about causality and correlation and what they can infer from the data.
Yes, I am more likely to buy on my phone - because I only use my phone for straightforward purchases and emergency purchases! If I want to think about it, and comparison shop, and noodle around with the idea, I use a laptop or desktop. It's not the device that is causing different behaviour, but how I think about the purchase.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:45 PM on June 6
I think retailers are confused about causality and correlation and what they can infer from the data.
Yes, I am more likely to buy on my phone - because I only use my phone for straightforward purchases and emergency purchases! If I want to think about it, and comparison shop, and noodle around with the idea, I use a laptop or desktop. It's not the device that is causing different behaviour, but how I think about the purchase.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:45 PM on June 6
The online services that price scam you for using a mobile device will equally scam you when you use a desktop, windows or Mac or the time of day you try to book.
My ad-blocking-equipped laptop browser never puts a big pop-up in the way of my browsing, or repeatedly in the middle of something I'm reading, that is almost impossible to dismiss and ends up diverting me into scammerville. I can barely escape that experience at all when using the web on my phone.
posted by praemunire at 5:10 PM on June 6
My ad-blocking-equipped laptop browser never puts a big pop-up in the way of my browsing, or repeatedly in the middle of something I'm reading, that is almost impossible to dismiss and ends up diverting me into scammerville. I can barely escape that experience at all when using the web on my phone.
posted by praemunire at 5:10 PM on June 6
I find Firefox for Android very usable and it supports the Privacy Badger extension. This gives me an experience with far fewer ads, popups etc. I recommend it.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:36 PM on June 6 [2 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:36 PM on June 6 [2 favorites]
All major transactions must be consummated via Lynx running inside Neovim. If it won’t load you didn’t need it.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:32 PM on June 6 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:32 PM on June 6 [1 favorite]
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Yes, I realize you can widen the screen with your fingers but then I get really confused. Laptop purchasing pour moi, it is!
posted by Kitteh at 2:35 PM on June 5 [26 favorites]