Joe Biden Steps Down as Democratic Nominee Presumptive

July 21, 2024 10:56 AM

I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as President for the remainder of my term.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock (1047 comments total)

Too much with the interesting times thing.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 10:57 AM on July 21 [111 favorites]

zowie! 😮
posted by mazola at 10:58 AM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Harris 2024, let's go!
posted by pattern juggler at 10:58 AM on July 21 [75 favorites]

Wow, he really did it.
posted by fortitude25 at 10:58 AM on July 21 [17 favorites]

Would love for him to spend the next few months executive ordering it out in a progressive blaze of glory. Nothing to lose. Go Joe go.
posted by phunniemee at 11:00 AM on July 21 [249 favorites]

"Haec credam a deo pio? A deo iusto? A deo scito? Cruciatus in crucem! Tuus in terra servus nuntius fui officium perfeci. Cruciatus in crucem. Eas in crucem! You get Hoynes!"
posted by Molesome at 11:01 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Wondering a little if this is real.
posted by box at 11:02 AM on July 21 [11 favorites]

May God help us all.

Just say no to an open primary.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:02 AM on July 21 [28 favorites]

It's no one's fault really. How could anyone have known, for instance, in 2022 when he was 79, that today he would be the unacceptable age of 81?

There was just no way to see this coming.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:02 AM on July 21 [109 favorites]

I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by credulous at 11:03 AM on July 21 [77 favorites]

Good stuff. You best all be 24/7 full-on propagandists for Harris now. See her do something awkward? No you didn't.
posted by Klipspringer at 11:03 AM on July 21 [120 favorites]

I've experiencing an extraordinary level of stress about this situation.

that said, I am 100000% on board with Harris and getting behind her campaign and pushing it to the max. I think she can make a fine president.

that said, wtaf Joe, no endorsement of her in this letter???
posted by supermedusa at 11:03 AM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be stepping down from the Presidency. (How can you be up to the rigors of the Presidency if you're not up to the rigors of campaigning?) I just hope that this doesn't turn Kamala Harris into the Hubert Humphrey of the 21st century.
posted by jonp72 at 11:03 AM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I was promised no malarkey.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:03 AM on July 21 [69 favorites]

This feels like a good thing

Maybe Biden can use his lame duck monarch's immunity to do some humane and strategic illegality on his way out. (Wishcasting I know)
posted by kensington314 at 11:04 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

Y'all got what you wanted. I hope it works out the way you said it would.
posted by hydropsyche at 11:05 AM on July 21 [101 favorites]

Alright Democrats, don't fuck this up.
posted by mazola at 11:05 AM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Notice he didn't endorse Harris in his letter. I think we are headed for some sort of open convention.
posted by fortitude25 at 11:06 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Y'all got what you wanted. I hope it works out the way you said it would.

Bidexit
posted by swift at 11:06 AM on July 21 [12 favorites]

LETS GO

LETS GO

LETS MOTHERFUCKING GO

MAN THE PHONES. KNOCK DOORS.

GET THE DONOR MONEY.

HIGJLIGHT THE ORANGE INCONTINENT RAPIST MOTHERFUCKER.
OLD RAPIST
OLD DERANGED, INCOHERENT RAPIST
OLD DROOLING DRIBBLING RAPIST
OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD TOO OLD TRUMP

VOTE DEM. KEEP THE FASH OUT
posted by lalochezia at 11:06 AM on July 21 [115 favorites]

I hope all that water-carrying for the donor class gets the porters what they wanted.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 11:07 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Y'all got what you wanted. I hope it works out the way you said it would.

Nobody thinks this is a slam dunk. Just a much better shot than a near certain loss with Biden. And remember, unless Obama and Pelosi have socks on here, no one on MetaFilter had any role in bringing this about.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:07 AM on July 21 [83 favorites]

Y'all got what you wanted.

Biden stepping down wasn't the result of people posting on the internet---all the public information is that Biden is suffering from some serious cognitive decline. There was the possibility that private information contradicted that (that the debate was the first time anyone saw him like this, and that all heresay and anonymous reporting that he forget his friend's names was bullshit). But now we know that cannot possibly be the case, that those making this decision, and thus in possession of that private information, jibes with what was happening publicly. I can't imagine anyone being upset at this decision, because now we know what the reality is.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:08 AM on July 21 [24 favorites]

(it's a fine line between opportunity and self-destruction -- eee!)
posted by mazola at 11:08 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I think we are headed for some sort of open convention.

I have no idea how any of this will turn out, but that seems like a recipe for total disaster.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:08 AM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Anybody got a handle on Ballot access issues if it's Kamala who is now top of the ticket?
posted by cashman at 11:08 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Very looking forward to the Harris debate with TFG (but I bet he doesn't show and chickens out, claiming he agreed to debate President Joe two times, not Kamala).
posted by Rash at 11:08 AM on July 21 [15 favorites]

unless Obama and Pelosi have socks

Clinton had Socks. Obama had Bo.
posted by downtohisturtles at 11:09 AM on July 21 [103 favorites]

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be stepping down from the Presidency. (How can you be up to the rigors of the Presidency if you're not up to the rigors of campaigning?) I just hope that this doesn't turn Kamala Harris into the Hubert Humphrey of the 21st century.

Do you want Harris to be held responsible for failing in 3.5 months to fix Everything?

I hope he endorses her earnestly and honestly and gives the passionate speeches about it that he knows so well how to give when he's on.
posted by trig at 11:09 AM on July 21 [60 favorites]

I wish him well, and I see a degree of humility and citizenship in this decision that echo the better moments in his career.

May the coming process be full of the same spirit of humility and citizenship, and may we have a clear and enthusiastic consensus quickly.
posted by moosetracks at 11:09 AM on July 21 [43 favorites]

Welp. Guess we’ll see if I’m wrong about how this will go. Hope so.
posted by Artw at 11:09 AM on July 21 [18 favorites]

I‘m rooting for you from abroad.
posted by mathiu at 11:10 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

I think this was the right thing to do but at the same time, I worry the Democrats will blow this opportunity.
posted by tommasz at 11:10 AM on July 21 [12 favorites]

I can't imagine anyone being upset at this decision, because now we know what the reality is.

I’m upset with this decision until the party announces how the fuck they intend to replace the candidate.

I may be upset afterward, depending on what they announce.
posted by notyou at 11:10 AM on July 21 [25 favorites]

I love that IsItJoever has already updated.
posted by corb at 11:12 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I’m upset with this decision until the party announces how the fuck they intend to replace the candidate.

IMHO its 99% Harris and if they do anything else its going to be a huge fuckign mistake.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:12 AM on July 21 [58 favorites]

Anybody got a handle on Ballot access issues if it's Kamala who is now top of the ticket?

The first state to close after the DNC convention is Ohio with a provisional date of September 1st but there's many a court case fuckery that could happen because the law with the new due date takes effect the day that it's due.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 11:12 AM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Welp media, you won't have Biden to kick around…
posted by mazola at 11:12 AM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I am absolutely upset about this. We absolutely do NOT know what the reality is. Maybe once we know the plan I can be okay. But right now I am not.
posted by cooker girl at 11:12 AM on July 21 [25 favorites]

i never expected this, and if trump loses this will be a legacy making moment for biden, as an act of courage. i’ll say good things about him and try to avoid mentioning his racist past and genocidal present.

god damn this summer, things just never stop happening!!!!
posted by dis_integration at 11:12 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Biden is the president this country never deserved. He had to clean up Trump's piles of shit, from Afghanistan to Ukraine to Covid to a near financial collapse, and then he had to eat yet more shit from an ungrateful public - ppl here included - and mainstream media who have been pushing a Trump dictatorship since day one of Biden's term. I'll be voting to keep Trump out, but I really have no good thoughts about anyone who wanted Biden removed from the ticket.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:14 AM on July 21 [197 favorites]

And a total waste of the news cycle on a lazy sunday afternoon. Big news, get some eyeballs, at the beach? Ya no.
posted by sammyo at 11:14 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Would love for him to spend the next few months executive ordering it out in a progressive blaze of glory. Nothing to lose. Go Joe go.

I don’t think this is going to happen.
posted by EmGeeJay at 11:14 AM on July 21 [6 favorites]

The future is always wildly uncertain. Any belief to the contrary is more about our anxieties than reality.

I will gladly exchange an unknown for the near certainty of a Trump victory. Whether that happens anyway isn't something we can know, but it at least increases the possibility space for alternative outcomes.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:15 AM on July 21 [11 favorites]

They should run Oprah.

I'm not saying she's a good candidate or even a good person, and it is a completely ridiculous move. But these are ridiculous times and she would win.

But nobody listens to my erudite, silly advice.
posted by AlSweigart at 11:15 AM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Good stuff. You best all be 24/7 full-on propagandists for Harris now. See her do something awkward? No you didn't.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of who serves who.
posted by so fucking future at 11:16 AM on July 21 [21 favorites]

once we know the plan

Oh, please. Plan? There is no plan. We're all just adults making this up as we go along, and doing the best we can, given the circumstances.
posted by Rash at 11:16 AM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Don't worry folks, I'm sure there are procedural issues that will prevent the supreme court appointing trump. Can't rush the law!
posted by stet at 11:16 AM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Wow!
Watching from north of the border and the thing that really gets me is the other guy's speeches are rambling, nonsensical firehose spraying amounts of hate filled BS and nothing. Where's the outdoor?
And, what sort of ratfucking is this going to open the gates to from the GOP?
All my best to you folks, it's going to be a hell of crazy ride.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:17 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

I am extremely upset about this. I don't believe for a minute that there is cognitive decline. Physical decline maybe, but cognitive - absolutely not.

I am generally an optimist, but having the donor class effectively push incumbent candidate, who won the primaries uncontested, out the door is a disgusting precedent.

The donors and insiders have created a horrific mess, and not one I can see the party - never good at unity in the best of times - recovering from.

The man did a fantastic job, and this is the thanks he gets. Gross.

10 to 1 that Harris gets pushed aside as well in favor of some middle aged white dude. I'm just furious with the party right now.
posted by anastasiav at 11:17 AM on July 21 [73 favorites]

Would love for him to spend the next few months executive ordering it out in a progressive blaze of glory. Nothing to lose. Go Joe go.

Oh for sure this is not happening. 21st century Dems are all tentativeness and refusing to swing the sword when they have the chance. But it's a delightful dream.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:17 AM on July 21 [10 favorites]

He just put out a tweet endorsing Harris.
posted by azpenguin at 11:17 AM on July 21 [93 favorites]

Biden is the president this country never deserved. He had to clean up Trump's piles of shit, from Afghanistan to Ukraine to Covid to a near financial collapse, and then he had to eat yet more shit from an ungrateful public - ppl here included

You forgot to mention one other thing.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:17 AM on July 21 [23 favorites]

Pelosi Told Colleagues She Would Favor ‘Open’ Nomination Process if Biden Drops Out

Just putting this here in advance of the imminent "this is somehow all Bernie's fault" whining.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:17 AM on July 21 [14 favorites]

Anybody got a handle on Ballot access issues if it's Kamala who is now top of the ticket?

This article from the Hill has a very helpful map color coded with the filing deadline for every state - but the TL:DR is it's fine.
posted by coffeecat at 11:17 AM on July 21 [12 favorites]

God bless you, Joe, for learning the lessons of RBG and Diane Feinstein. It's hard to step away, but sometimes it's the right thing to do.

Let's hope from here on out this election can be about the future of the country, the criminal climate-denier that Republicans have nominated, and an energetic, inclusive vision put forward by whoever the Democrats run.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:17 AM on July 21 [64 favorites]

Biden is the president this country never deserved.

No, we deserved him. The Palestinians didn't, though.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:18 AM on July 21 [61 favorites]

@JoeBiden:

My fellow Democrats, I have decided not to accept the nomination and to focus all my energies on my duties as President for the remainder of my term. My very first decision as the party nominee in 2020 was to pick Kamala Harris as my Vice President. And it’s been the best decision I’ve made. Today I want to offer my full support and endorsement for Kamala to be the nominee of our party this year. Democrats — it’s time to come together and beat Trump. Let’s do this.

posted by Rhaomi at 11:18 AM on July 21 [114 favorites]

They should run Oprah.

No way! But George Clooney would get my vote.
posted by Rash at 11:18 AM on July 21 [4 favorites]

He just put out a tweet endorsing Harris.

Thank god.
posted by Gadarene at 11:19 AM on July 21 [31 favorites]

Pelosi Told Colleagues She Would Favor ‘Open’ Nomination Process if Biden Drops Out

84 year-old who says 81 is too old for public office has official opinions. Whoakay, lady.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:19 AM on July 21 [41 favorites]

Ahh now we have Biden’s full endorsement of Harris.

Feeling better, still worried about fuckery until the delegates votes are made and counted.
posted by notyou at 11:19 AM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Harris would will make an absolutely excellent president. Now who can show me how she will draw a huge crowd to a rally and get them all excited, cheering rapturously?
posted by sammyo at 11:19 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

He just put out a tweet endorsing Harris.

Phew, this is very good. I really am confident the vast majority of the party - whether because they are actually excited about her or because they are glad this limbo is over, are going to unite around her. And now we get the fun of a Veepstakes!
posted by coffeecat at 11:19 AM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Fuck yeah.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:20 AM on July 21 [4 favorites]

I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.

posted by credulous at 11:03 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
posted by Kibbutz at 11:20 AM on July 21 [74 favorites]

Finally!!!!

I was originally Harris-skeptical, but I'm all in for Harris now. Her invisibility in the Biden administration is actually a strength; she gets to be both continuity and new. And I think she'll kick Trump's ass. Stoked.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:20 AM on July 21 [30 favorites]

Prediction: Now that the "centrist" media has determined that Trump is the "unity" candidate, they will ask many questions about whether Harris is "too divisive".
posted by clawsoon at 11:21 AM on July 21 [43 favorites]

man harris makes me so nervous, her 2020 campaign was such a catastrophe, here’s hoping she’s learned from it. i do think she can stand up to trump on the debate stage, and may even make a good president, but jesus ramping up a campaign with only like 100 days to go? what a nightmare
posted by dis_integration at 11:21 AM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I have genuinely mixed emotions here. Relief that the decision is finally made, and that maybe we DO have a chance of beating Trump. Genuine sadness for Biden, who surely didn't want it to end this way, but has to face the reality of his age and his party's wishes. But I'm still furious with him for enabling the Palestinian genocide, even though I don't have much hope that Harris will be any better. I need to go consult some ice cream about this.
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 11:21 AM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Harris / Inoffensive White Guy 2024!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on July 21 [41 favorites]

then he had to eat yet more shit from an ungrateful public - ppl here included

Motherfucker deserved every bit of it and more for his unquestioning support of Israel's genocide, sorry.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 11:22 AM on July 21 [29 favorites]

I really didn't think he was going to do it. This is amazing. I don't know if it's good, but it's amazing. I don't know what the news is going to do next week to keep building up the ratings--there's going to have to be a giant robot tearing up NYC with its laser eyes or something.
posted by mittens at 11:22 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I've been so nervous these last three weeks that (like so many politicians before him) Biden was going to be too stubborn to do the right thing for the country.

I'm SO glad to be proven wrong. I'm thankful that he was able to come to terms with the (ever increasing) writing on the wall that this was going to be a failed second term bid in time for the party to do something about it and let someone else make a serious bid to stop Trump.

Nothing is a sure thing. But now we at least have a chance to beat him.
posted by dyslexictraveler at 11:22 AM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Thank you coffeecat. What's up with New Mexico, if anybody knows? (assuming again that Kamala is now top of the ticket). Good to see that perhaps that angle of structural denial is perhaps not going to be a barrier to even being able to vote for a democratic ticket.
posted by cashman at 11:22 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Enough with the fucking I/P derails.

If the subject if how good or bad a president Biden was is off topic, then fine. If it isn't, a major foreign policy choice that killed countless thousands and alienated key demographics we need to beat Trump definitely needs to be remembered at least as much as any other facet of his presidency.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:23 AM on July 21 [53 favorites]

Jimmy Carter is tan, rested and ready.
posted by Thrakburzug at 11:24 AM on July 21 [70 favorites]

Well, the way the country is, we can't have two women or two people of color on the same ticket. Kamala Harris will need a tall white guy for her VP.

Who did Obama have on his ticket?
posted by AlSweigart at 11:24 AM on July 21 [17 favorites]

The only things keeping me afloat this morning are the wild-ass Bluesky opinions with degrees of seriousness:

- Harris/Sanders ticket because if these megadonors have already fucked off let's let them fuck off (and a Bernie/JD debate would be AWESOME)
- "trump should drop out too and let us just see how we do for a few years without a president"
posted by queensissy at 11:24 AM on July 21 [27 favorites]

Wondering a little if this is real
nyt: “It has been the greatest honor of my life to serve as your President,” he said in a letter posted on social media. ...No sitting president has dropped out of a race so late in the election cycle in American history... On the international front, Mr. Biden revitalized international alliances that frayed under Mr. Trump, rallying much of the world to stand against Russia’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. ...", nbc
posted by HearHere at 11:25 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I was way, way off, but I thought Harris would win the 2020 Dem ticket. I was so off that I'm not going to bother predicting anything out of this.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:25 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I love Kamala Harris!

(disregard any and all previous statements to the contrary)
posted by scantee at 11:25 AM on July 21 [42 favorites]

"trump should drop out too and let us just see how we do for a few years without a president"

Honestly I love everything about this suggestion.
posted by obfuscation at 11:25 AM on July 21 [30 favorites]

Now Biden just needs to divide his kingdom amongst his three daughters and wander mad around the wreckage of his legacy.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:26 AM on July 21 [77 favorites]

His admin was over but for the shouting when the House flipped in 2022.

I remember when Kamala had a close general election last decade; I was rooting for her then because she seemed to be able to be an Obama-like candidate for people

LFG, I am happy giving the swing states the choice between Trump and her
posted by torokunai at 11:26 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Kamala or kaiserdom. Those are the choices now.
posted by non canadian guy at 11:26 AM on July 21 [10 favorites]

woah
posted by djseafood at 11:26 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

I think I’m picking the right week to start.
posted by azpenguin at 11:28 AM on July 21 [54 favorites]

I am looking forward to the next three months being the same media screeching endlessly about What Did Harris Know And When Did She Know It, How Complicit Was Harris in the Biden Coverup Fraud, Why Isn't Harris 25th-ing Biden Immediately, and so on.

And that's our _best-case_ scenario in which the Democratic establishment coalesces swiftly and completely behind her. Anyone who even breathes the words "blitz primary" at this point should have their voice drowned out by as much group screaming as it takes.
posted by delfin at 11:28 AM on July 21 [19 favorites]

I've definitely wanted to see this ever since the debate, but still quite sad to see it happen. Biden is a decent man and has been an incredible president given the circumstances (surprising to say as a die-hard Obama fan, but pound-for-pound he actually did a better job than Barack). He's absolutely right to be resentful, both of the times the party and media has wrongly counted him out and the fact that so much of the electorate has been unmoved by his hard-won accomplishments (and his opponent's appalling unfitness). I can't imagine how difficult it is for a man of his generation to admit that he can't continue in his life's work on the largest stage imaginable.

Thanks, Obama Joe.
posted by Rhaomi at 11:28 AM on July 21 [76 favorites]

I hate people grumbling that she's an "unpopular vice president." Since when is a vice president ever "popular?"

Good luck to her.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:28 AM on July 21 [62 favorites]

I would have put lottery odds on Biden actually dropping out. I'm really shocked. I just hope we can beat Trump.
posted by netowl at 11:29 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Thank you Mr President.

When Kamala Harris is elected President I think history will look back at this more kindly them many will now.

Anyway - I hope President Harris appoints Joe Biden as Honorary Peace Envoy to Ireland and Northern Ireland. Let him live out his best life in Dublin.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:29 AM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Thankfully New Mexico has a Dem state gov so I imagine fixing that will be a priority.

man harris makes me so nervous, her 2020 campaign was such a catastrophe, here’s hoping she’s learned from it.

For everyone who thinks that, I strongly urge you to take a few deep breaths and listen to this interview Ezra Klein did recently with a journalist who spent a lot of time with Harris working on a profile of her. It gets into her history, makes a compelling case for why it's unfair to judge someone on their first bid for president (I mean, Biden also had to drop out before Iowa the first time he ran because he was plagiarizing his speeches....), and evidence that she has greatly improved in the craft of being a politician. I'm not saying there is no reason for anxiety about the future, but I think it will settle your nerves a bit.
posted by coffeecat at 11:29 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

His admin was over but for the shouting when the House flipped in 2022.

I wouldn’t say this is true at all. When you look at the factors in play, particularly inflation, the GOP would have won 60+ seats. Instead they won barely enough to flip the house. It was not just a historic underperformance by them, it was also an over performance by Dems. If we would have seen a 1994/2010 type flip then you might have been right there.
posted by azpenguin at 11:30 AM on July 21 [27 favorites]

This is the first time I've wanted to say this since Obama, but: Fired up. Ready to go.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:30 AM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Harris/Clooney. You broke it, you bought it, dude.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:31 AM on July 21 [40 favorites]

I genuinely suspect that the average person who was going to vote for Biden in November are taking the stance of “I don’t care who the Democratic candidate is as long as it’s a functional adult human with all their mental faculties intact” and that there’s a portion who would even be flexible on either of those conditions.
posted by SansPoint at 11:31 AM on July 21 [72 favorites]

I think both things are true; 2022 was a historic underperformance by the GOP but they did take the house, however narrowly, which completely stopped Biden's until then very impressive legislative record cold.

But judicial nominations and such in the Senate did continue at least.
posted by Justinian at 11:31 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

I don't think anyone can predict this. Polls are terrible, and each of us lives in our own social bubbles that influence how we perceive the general feelings of the voting public.

I hope that we all give each other grace. We might disagree, very strongly, about the right way forward, but I hope we can save our ire for people who actually mean us harm.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:32 AM on July 21 [41 favorites]

Ok now tell me where to send my money. I wasn't even thinking about donating to the campaign until now.
posted by thorny at 11:32 AM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Harris/Buttigieg sure has a nice ring to it. I could really get behind that ticket.
posted by metaxa at 11:32 AM on July 21 [43 favorites]

> I hate people grumbling that she's an "unpopular vice president." Since when is a vice president ever "popular?"

The person she is vice president to was a very popular vice president.
posted by moosetracks at 11:32 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

Thank fucking god
posted by windbox at 11:33 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Joe Biden is not, and never has been, "a decent man". He's better than the literal fascist, but he is and always has been a plagiarizing, lying, racist sack of shit.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:33 AM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Could it be that all of those voters who are scared of a woman of color are already MAGA, so can't be lost at this point?
The best thing is that I'm sure she can wipe the floor with Trump in a debate, as a former prosecutor.

The other best thing is that she is already out there reminding people that MAGA wants to take away all women's rights. With the front role, she can be even louder and clearer.
posted by mumimor at 11:34 AM on July 21 [22 favorites]

Ok now tell me where to send my money. I wasn't even thinking about donating to the campaign until now.

I’ve started running a Downticket Dems bot on Bluesky (link) and Fedi (link) focused exclusively on D candidates in and near districts that Cook Political Report defines as competitive. Follow and donate!
posted by migurski at 11:35 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

I am extremely upset about this. I don't believe for a minute that there is cognitive decline. Physical decline maybe, but cognitive - absolutely not.

Unfortunately reality doesn’t matter. Even if there is no cognitive decline, which in my opinion there is, the perception among the general public is that Biden is unfit. Trump has clearly never been up to the task. When president, he mostly watched Fox News all day. He doesn’t read; his cabinet didn’t give him reports, they made charts and presentations with pictures. This doesn’t matter though, because almost half the country thinks he’s a strong leader.

Biden should never have run. Not because he wasn’t a good president. He was tremendous. His poll numbers were always terrible, and there was never an indication they would get better. Yes, this was completely undeserved. Again, doesn’t matter.
posted by blairsyprofane at 11:35 AM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Welp

I wish I thought the Democratic Party was capable of managing this
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:35 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

All of this “hope you’re happy with yourselves, God help us all” nonsense is utterly embarrassing.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 11:35 AM on July 21 [99 favorites]

This is a coup in real time. The elites have chosen. We have lost.
posted by tgrundke at 11:35 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

In the minutes since Biden dropped out I have harangued one (1) young person into registering to vote and then sat next to him and yelled at him until he actually did it. If I can keep up this rate until November...
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:35 AM on July 21 [91 favorites]

It's Joever
posted by chavenet at 11:35 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Trying to think of a middle west VP pick for Harris and honestly Tim Walz MN Gov sure fits the bill really well.
posted by djseafood at 11:35 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

i, for one, am ready to exist in the context of all in which i live and what came before me
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:36 AM on July 21 [45 favorites]

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be stepping down from the Presidency. (How can you be up to the rigors of the Presidency if you're not up to the rigors of campaigning?)

Well, one way would be if he believed he could be functional enough to be president for less than a year, but foresaw not being functional enough to be president for the next four years.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 11:36 AM on July 21 [70 favorites]

The voters who were scared of a woman of color were also not going to vote for a man who appeared to be on death's door with her as VP - may as well throw all the party's resources to making a case for why she'll be an excellent president. Trump was already putting out ads that said "A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris."
posted by coffeecat at 11:37 AM on July 21 [17 favorites]

harris makes me so nervous, her 2020 campaign was such a catastrophe

Her people got too wigged out by the "KKKamala is a Kop" people on Twitter and tried to turn her into someone she wasn't. In a general election against a felon surrounded by felons, her prosecutorial experience is a selling point. And she's not going to have a ragtag primary campaign operation either.

Go watch her victory speech when she got elected to the Senate, and had turn on a dime to rewrite that speech when Trump unexpectedly won.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:37 AM on July 21 [27 favorites]

🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

I can't imagine telling 4 years ago me that I'd be rooting for Kamala Harris.

I look forward to the party swiftly coalescing around her candidacy. 😆
posted by constraint at 11:37 AM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Well, if Harris gets the nom and wins, it should mostly work out, unless that is, the super fucking racist folks who attempted to overthrow the Biden win, faced almost no repercussions for doing so, and have been improving their tool kits in the years since fuck it up somehow.

Don't worry everybody! If it gets to that point the Supreme Court will save us, right? The one Trump largely picked himself that is.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:38 AM on July 21 [6 favorites]

This doesn't exactly fill me with doom, but it definitely doesn't fill me with hope. I continue to be mostly filled with alarm.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 11:38 AM on July 21 [27 favorites]

Also hoping for Harris / Sanders, then Harris / AOC 2028, then AOC / ? 2032.
posted by dobbs at 11:39 AM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Since when is a vice president ever "popular?"
Maybe you're too young to remember the "Weirdo for Spiro!" buttons all the kids were wearing, but you have to remember the "I want Dick to shoot me in the face" t-shirts.
posted by pracowity at 11:39 AM on July 21 [11 favorites]

This is a coup in real time. The elites have chosen. We have lost.

The "elites" have always had a thumb on the scale. The idea that primaries are the people freely choosing the candidate for their party is younger than some folks on MetaFilter, and even then it wasn't really true.

Most Democrats wanted Biden out. There may not have been a formal vote, but this is not something being forced on an unwilling party.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:39 AM on July 21 [62 favorites]

Well, if Harris gets the nom and wins, it should mostly work out, unless that is, the super fucking racist folks who attempted to overthrow the Biden win, faced almost no repercussions for doing so, and have been improving their tool kits in the years since fuck it up somehow.

Don't worry everybody! If it gets to that point the Supreme Court will save us, right? The one Trump largely picked himself that is.

I'm sympathetic to these concerns but is the probability that the Supreme Court tries to invalidate a legitimate Biden election win in 2024 substantially different than the probability that the Supreme court tries to invalidate a legitimate Harris election win in 2024? I don't think so.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:40 AM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Nervous. Hope things work out.

However, the prospect of a debate featuring The Cop vs. The Felon Guy is intriguing.
posted by May Kasahara at 11:40 AM on July 21 [14 favorites]

Man everyone freaking out about “now the wealthy donors will choose” may not be aware how the process of primaries has worked for the last couple hundred years, I’m just saying.

That said, I agree, throw Sanders on the ticket and let’s fucking see this thing go.
posted by corb at 11:40 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

somebody check this for me. Biden.com redirects to the Earojima pic on 3 browsers.
Biden.com goes to https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSaB1b7WQAAEFFZ?format=jpg
posted by theora55 at 11:41 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Bernie Sanders? He's older than Joe Biden.
posted by pracowity at 11:42 AM on July 21 [39 favorites]

Phew.

---
From the NYT

The clock is ticking, right? How much time does the Democratic Party have to settle this?
The Democratic Party is about to see if it can mimic Britain: a huge consequential election in just over a month. Democrats will gather in Chicago on Aug. 19 for their nominating convention; the nominee is scheduled to deliver the acceptance speech on Aug. 22. The party sets the rules, and nothing is set in stone, but this pretty much needs to be settled by Aug. 22.

----

Phew.
posted by lalochezia at 11:42 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Harris on July 18 responding to that bullshit Republican "unity" message at their convention. She is on fire and hearing her say these things so effectively is giving me a lot of hope.

You cannot claim you stand for unity if you are pushing an agenda that deprives whole groups of Americans of basic freedoms, opportunity, and dignity. ...

You cannot claim to be for unity if you try to overturn a free and fair election and threaten to terminate the United States Constitution.

Just terrific energy and a clear message. If we get four months of this for the election, the change will be worth it.
posted by Nelson at 11:42 AM on July 21 [91 favorites]

This is a coup in real time. The elites have chosen. We have lost.


wat
posted by lalochezia at 11:43 AM on July 21 [100 favorites]

Harris / Inoffensive White Guy 2024!

Would Josh Shapiro, current governor of Pennsylvania work?
posted by fuse theorem at 11:43 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

This was the best option. It allows Dems to embody the next generation as well as represent them. Trump is now also the “old” candidate to go along with his terrible policies. I disagree with most of the room; I think a “friendly” open primary is better, I think that drives energy and enthusiasm and looks less like a coronation. I’d love to see the strong democratic field rise to the occasion. I want Mayor Pete, Whitmer, Pritzker, and Newsom to go to war. I want to hear nothing except slamming anti-choice policies and Project 2025 over and over and over and over.

I am feeling better now than I was this morning about our odds. Let’s not assume failure; we've beat this f#ckstick before.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:44 AM on July 21 [36 favorites]

If Biden resigned immediately from the Presidency, I'd see the following possibility:

--Harris becomes President right away. Vice-President office is now vacant.
--Harris nominates a new Democratic Vice-President. The Republican House refuses to confirm the nomination, so the office remains vacant.
--In January 2025, the new Congress convenes for counting of electoral votes. The new Congress is divided 50-50, and there is no Vice-President yet to break the deadlock. Republican shenanigans on the floor of the Senate and House prevent either candidate for President or Vice-President from getting 270 electoral votes to win the Presidential election.
--Constitutional crisis ensues....if the House is still in Republican control, Trump, or Mike Johnson, advances to become acting President after a 'contingent election' for President in the House, where each state delegation gets one vote (California gets the same single vote that Wyoming gets, etc.)

So no, Biden should not step down from the Presidency, in my opinion.
posted by gimonca at 11:44 AM on July 21 [61 favorites]

That sound you hear is the Trump campaign ripping up a detailed, brilliant, and suddenly useless blueprint for beating Joe Biden
@TimAlberta on twitter

... and their main troublemaker Steve Bannon is in prison.
posted by unearthed at 11:44 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

I‘ve many initial and confused thoughts about this, so for now, let me just say I‘m looking forward to months of Thin-Blue-Line flag types complain that Kamala Is A Cop without a hint of self-awareness.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:44 AM on July 21 [22 favorites]

Kamala's coalition will include
- Mainstream Democrats
- Radicalized K-Hive
- Bernie revanchists
- Hillary, after 3 bottles of wine
- Young people who have adopted "coconut tree" as a verbal twitch

This is the most united the Democratic Party has been in years
posted by windbox at 11:44 AM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Sanders has 1000x more power as a US senator than he will at the bottom of the ticket. No chance.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:45 AM on July 21 [44 favorites]

Thank god. Proud of Biden for making the selfless decision to recognize that he was no longer the best option to defeat Trump in November. That debate performance was shocking.

I feel confident in Kamala Harris’ chances to win. Trump is unpopular and responsible for the overturn of Roe v Wade. We just needed a candidate who could lay out a case against him by speaking more than 4 coherent sentences in a row and now we have one!
posted by BeginAgain at 11:45 AM on July 21 [17 favorites]

I am also delighted that we will get more Maya Rudolph in the next 3.5 months (and hopefully, beyond).
posted by coffeecat at 11:45 AM on July 21 [54 favorites]

As I was telling a friend, this feels less Doom and Gloom™ to me than it clearly does to others.  Nothing's changed; doesn't matter to me who they nominate.  It could be a wet bag of flour and I'd vote for it.

This isn't about my preferred candidate.  It's about stopping fascism.  Period. Anyone but that fucking guy.


Wet Bag of Flour 2024!
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 11:46 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

“I don’t care who the Democratic candidate is as long as it’s a functional adult human with all their mental faculties intact” and that there’s a portion who would even be flexible on either of those conditions.

Jellyfish / Plankton '24
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:46 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

It's gonna be VP Josh Shapiro, right?
posted by minervous at 11:47 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Anybody got a handle on Ballot access issues if it's Kamala who is now top of the ticket?


I do think there is some concern about Ohio.

I posted this in the last thread, but I think it's worth reposting:

The Democratic National Committee has determined that a virtual roll call vote to formally nominate President Biden as the party's nominee will happen in August
...
DNC Chair Jamie Harrison posted Tuesday that they want the vote to happen by Aug. 5, to comply with an Aug. 7 deadline for candidate certification in Ohio. In late May, the DNC announced a move to a virtual roll call because of that deadline.
...
In June, Ohio passed a bill to move its deadline from Aug. 7 to Sept. 1. But because that law technically does not take effect until Sept. 1, the DNC said they are keeping their timeline of a pre-convention virtual roll call in place due to concern of litigation. Republican Secretary of State Frank LaRose suggested earlier this month that Sept. 1 deadline to certify a candidate would stand.

posted by OnceUponATime at 11:47 AM on July 21 [7 favorites]

I respect Joe Biden so much.

Ready to put in the work to elect Harris and her VP!
posted by ichomp at 11:47 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

For all the intensity of fears and feelings driving folks to make such ridiculously certain predictions here about what must happen... or disaster... (I mean, seriously: If you're so sure, go make a few billion on election prediction markets and buy back Twitter, please.)

I'll just say, reading through the lists of potential alternatives, I'm excited! Biden was a good president. But America deserves and needs a candidate who can meet this moment: Who can articulate a clear positive vision, who can embody a little more political courage, and who can respond in an energetic way to the nonstop dark fantasies promoted so effectively by Trump and Fox.

So, yeah, I'm pretty revved up. I'd love an open convention to see which candidate rises to the moment – rather than another ordination brokered by Democratic Party insiders that have gotten this wrong so often recently. But regardless of what's next, this is a moment of hope.

Good on you, Joe!
posted by ~ at 11:47 AM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Harris is the only viable replacement candidate, but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either. She's Biden's VP. (Also, her terrific husband will be considered a liability in this matter.)

What's going to happen with Biden's "big announcement" re: the Court & term limits?

Trump's record-breaking 90-minute acceptance speech at the Republican convention offers considerable evidence of his decline. Excerpts from that screed should have dominated the headlines, *and* the irregularity of his medical update.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:47 AM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Would Josh Shapiro, current governor of Pennsylvania work?

As a PA resident, I think he would do great in the role, and he doesn't potentially take a senate seat away the way Mark Kelly could. Solidifies PA as a win as well. Wouldn't hate it.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:47 AM on July 21 [11 favorites]

somebody check this for me. Biden.com redirects to the Earojima pic on 3 browsers.

Looks like it's never been an official Joe Biden website. It was registered in 2002 and before the Trump pic it was redirecting to a donation page for the Alzheimer's Association.
posted by whir at 11:48 AM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Honestly, my big worry now is that something happens that causes *Trump* to step down between now and November and gives the GOP the opportunity to put forward a smarter, more “presentable” fascist standard-bearer.
posted by non canadian guy at 11:49 AM on July 21 [8 favorites]

You know, I saw Sen. Warren on Colbert the other night...

Still bummed out that she has not been the President for the last four years. She is just so good...
posted by Windopaene at 11:49 AM on July 21 [78 favorites]

When the news leaked yesterday (a couple days ago?) that the Clintons supported him staying, I knew he'd already made up his mind to leave.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 11:49 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Bernie way too old, really a midwest gov who? Best idea yet: Mitt!
posted by sammyo at 11:50 AM on July 21 [6 favorites]

the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either

I disagree with this. I think overall young people disapprove on Biden over Gaza but don’t hold Kamala responsible for his policy and are more excited for her.
posted by BeginAgain at 11:50 AM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Is it possible for the DNC to move the convention up?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:50 AM on July 21

First post-Baby Boomer on a major ticket.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:51 AM on July 21 [24 favorites]

> Harris is the only viable replacement candidate, but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either.

Way to continue supporting an organized campaign of ethnic cleansing with a non sequitur.
posted by constraint at 11:52 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Is there a list of delegates per state/territory for the Democratic Convention in case it might be useful to petition them directly? Colorado's are listed at this page.
posted by audi alteram partem at 11:52 AM on July 21

What's going to happen with Biden's "big announcement" re: the Court & term limits?

Personally I'm hoping for a Zero-Fucks Biden to emerge when the dust settles and use the rest of his term reversing/undermining the worst of this Supreme Court's outrages. The man can still do righteous indignation like nobody else. Let's see some real Dark Brandon energy.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:52 AM on July 21 [60 favorites]

Also, I really want to buy a beer for whoever it was that inside the Biden campaign that conceived of and then got the principals onboard with the early debate proposal. They may not have known it at the time. But that person changed history.
posted by dyslexictraveler at 11:52 AM on July 21 [50 favorites]

What's going to happen with Biden's "big announcement" re: the Court & term limits?

I mean, the same thing that was always going to happen: nothing, since Republicans control the House and there's no way in hell an amendment can pass.
posted by whir at 11:52 AM on July 21 [6 favorites]

but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either. She's Biden's VP

That is not what I have heard from people who wouldn't vote Biden. None of them felt good about not voting against Trump. But voting for Biden felt like affirming his choices, or saying their lost loved ones were an acceptable loss. Given the out of voting for someone who at least expressed qualms about the ongoing genocide, I think most of them will enthusiastically take it.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:52 AM on July 21 [25 favorites]

This is a coup in real time. The elites have chosen. We have lost.

Does that make me... an elite?? How exciting! Hope y'all are honored to share this space with an elite like myself. :)

But seriously, I just signed up for Indivisible Philadelphia and donated to the DNC. I promise to knock on doors and write postcards and do what I can to get Philly to show up at the polls. Time to get to work!
posted by catcafe at 11:53 AM on July 21 [40 favorites]

Windopaene: "You know, I saw Sen. Warren on Colbert the other night...

Still bummed out that she has not been the President for the last four years. She is just so good..."

Tbh, one of the best things about the Biden administration is how he allowed her significant influence over personnel; Lina Khan is pure Liz, for ex.
posted by Rhaomi at 11:53 AM on July 21 [42 favorites]

Harris is the only viable replacement candidate, but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either. She's Biden's VP.

Uh, no? Harris' public and as best we can tell private involvement in Biden's abetting of genocide has been pretty minimal. She may or may not do a better job than biden would after 2024 but she doesn't have all that blood on her hands. Hopefully, if she wins in 2024, she acts a president that knows that there are serious political consequences for sharing the responsibility of so much carnage.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:53 AM on July 21 [16 favorites]

It is kind of heartening to see that there are Biden diehards who are just as petulant and self absorbed as we were when Bernie lost the 2020 primary. Yeah it was the "elites" that didn't want the oldest senator ever from the glorified tax shelter of Delaware to lose another election in the twilight of his mental faculties because of his Nixonian resentment. They're the ones that forced him at gunpoint to pick the worst performing of his opponents as his VP instead of his true preference, the second place finisher whose policies he consistently rejected.

Don't worry though, my true, blue patriots, the storm is coming, and soon all the betrayers of the Progressive Biden Agenda will be arrested and convicted in secret trials and replaced with holograms. Where We Joe One We Joe All.
posted by jy4m at 11:53 AM on July 21 [29 favorites]

I'm kind of relieved to hear this. I can't say I'm overjoyed, but it feels like if it has actually come to this? And... it has! This was the best thing that could have happened before the election. I'm slightly more optimistic now than I was 24 hours ago.

Doesn't mean I'm right about anything.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:55 AM on July 21 [10 favorites]

her prosecutorial experience is a selling point

probably true pretty broadly in the 2024 climate vs. 2020 as much as I wish it were otherwise
posted by atoxyl at 11:55 AM on July 21 [12 favorites]

I am generally an optimist, but having the donor class effectively push incumbent candidate, who won the primaries uncontested, out the door is a disgusting precedent.

I have a giant mix of emotions but on this specifically, my take is that the primaries for Democratic party this year were essentially uncontested not by coincidence and not because nobody wanted to run, but because of heavy political pressure (including from donors, I strongly expect) on any viable candidate not to run. This was beyond the level of courtesy that an incumbent running for reelection usually gets. It was absolutely because Biden wasn't able to campaign normally because of his health. The reason the debate was such a shock, and the reason so many people saw it as a kind of betrayal, was that there was an implicit bargain of "okay, we won't make him go through the usual grueling primary campaign but in return you'd better mean it when you say he's up to the rigors of general campaigning." He has not been, even if you put the debate aside; he should have been campaigning intensively for months by now.

TBH I also think that bowing to pressure from your own party is not necessarily a bad thing or a bad precedent. "Never back down, never apologize, never change your mind, apres moi le deluge" - that's a much worse precedent, to me, except for very narrow exceptions. We've been seeing too much of that lately all around the world. Standing your ground despite huge political risk and opposition is for serious moral acts like passing the Civil Rights Act despite foreseeing a backlash, not for prolonging your own political career.
posted by trig at 11:56 AM on July 21 [46 favorites]

Harris is the only viable replacement candidate, but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris, either. She's Biden's VP. (Also, her terrific husband will be considered a liability in this matter.)

For whatever little it may be worth, Bibi is a felon who is also pretty fucking racist and despises liberal diaspora Jews that intermarry.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:56 AM on July 21 [23 favorites]

For the first time since November of last year, the idea of voting this year doesn't nake my stomach turn. I feel I am dangerously close to succumbing to hope.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:56 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

I have many feelings, but

>>I just signed up for Indivisible Philadelphia and donated to the DNC. I promise to knock on doors and write postcards and do what I can to get Philly to show up at the polls. Time to get to work!

THIS is the energy. If we win this (and I think we have a pretty good chance), we will make history. And we'll need all the down-ballot candidates to win so we can make some permanent reforms. So everyone, don't hold back. I won't be.
posted by donttouchmymustache at 11:57 AM on July 21 [35 favorites]

AN APPEAL TO HEAVEN
posted by Rhaomi at 11:57 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Also: it's been 4 years, and I can't think of any substantial dirt anyone has been able to find on Harris. Maybe I just haven't read about it? If it was there it would be out by now.

I mean... everyone has dirt. Everyone. But I'm talking about substantial stuff.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:57 AM on July 21 [3 favorites]

The problem with a lot of high-profile Democrats who could be Vice-President candidates now is that they're holding down fairly important, strategic offices, and I'd hate to see Democrats have to defend those positions if the current office-holder jumps up to become VP.

Example: Gretchen Whitmer? I love the idea of Whitmer as VP (or as President, for that matter)...I don't like the idea of having to come up with an equally awesome governor of Michigan to replace her in Lansing.

Counter example: Roy Cooper, term limited in North Carolina, has strength in a swing state, nothing to lose by adding him to the ticket as VP, since he can't run for N.C. governor again.
posted by gimonca at 11:58 AM on July 21 [17 favorites]

Also Harris has signaled at different times that she does not approve with how Gaza is being handled. I think it's noteworthy too, that one of her step-kids has been vocally pro-Palestine. I'm not suggesting she'd be a radical change, but she'll be different than Biden.

As for VP, as much as I am very fond for Bernie (truly, he is the only politician I have ever trusted, even when I disagree with him), I don't think he's the best choice right now. Now is the time for a young ticket. I am coming around to Beshear - his optics are very "white bread" and he's liberal (not moderate) and he'll be great debating Vance. And when his opponent tried to smear him for supporting trans rights in his re-election, he didn't equivocate, he dug in and made a case for why anti-trans legislation was child bullying - and then cited some Bible verses for why that's not part of his morals. I'm about as far from a Christian as you can get, but I think having someone like that on the ticket would be good - not just for the party, but for the country.
posted by coffeecat at 11:59 AM on July 21 [61 favorites]

Wow.

I honestly did not expect that, and I really REALLY wish that if he was going to drop out he'd done it sooner. Because JFC this is leaving us a bit short on time and it was just awful watching it drag on over the last weeks.

I know Harris won't be pushing the Trump is senile and too elderly message, but with Biden out others can...

So come on NYT, where are the stories telling us Trump is too old? Get on it!

I also really fucking hope she wins, because not only are we all going to suffer if she doesn't but there are going to be a lot of people playing the if only we hadn't listened to the evil left and stuck with Biden thing even though the evil left was not the driving force.

Go Harris!

dances_with_sneetches Obama wasn't a Boomer so I think Harris is the second. But she is the first Black woman to run for President, so she's got that. And please let her be the first Black woman to be President.


but the people who wouldn't vote for Biden because of Gaza won't vote for Harris

I don't think that's true at all. It may not be exactly true or fair, but since Biden was President during the initial support of genocide phase, and continues to be President now, Harris will probably get little blame for that. I'd like to see polling in Deerborn and other critical Muslim communities soon.

Even if she won't get ALL of those votes back, and she won't, she'll probably get quite a few back if she can be even a little less callous and dismissive towards Palestinian suffering and more aggressive in talking anti-genocide. If Biden switched tracks now it'd be seen as clear pandering and hypocrisy, but with a fresh face I think a changed message might work.
posted by sotonohito at 11:59 AM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Honestly, my big worry now is that something happens that causes *Trump* to step down between now and November and gives the GOP the opportunity to put forward a smarter, more “presentable” fascist standard-bearer.

If Trump isn't the nominee there would be so much infighting that by November the GOP wouldn't even realise it was election day
posted by fullerine at 11:59 AM on July 21 [53 favorites]

It's really difficult being a Canadian who can literally see Washington state from here, and feeling so fucking helpless in the face of oligarchs, billionaires, fascists, and the fucking MAGA freaks who are steering this election.

ELECT A BLACK WOMAN PRESIDENT AS THE BIGGEST FUCK YOU TO THE MAGA FUCKS AND THE FASCIST BILLIONAIRES.

Ahem.

I don't have anywhere else to vent, I'm sorry.

All my thoughts, vibes, and every interaction about politics is about defeating fascism. Nothing is more important.

A second Trump admin = planet death. Environmental collapse will be so much faster with that fucking tool obeying all the (actual) billionaires.

Please.

Please.

Don't let that filth near your presidency again.
posted by Savannah at 11:59 AM on July 21 [65 favorites]

The notion that a good president is owed gratitude is bizarre to me. It's a job. The reward for being president isn't gratitude from an adoring public. The reward for being president is getting to be president and a $400,000 salary plus benefits.

Very few countries have open primaries. Open primaries are how we got Trump. I no longer believe open primaries are intrinsically a good thing.
posted by cosmic owl at 12:00 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

I hope that one of the first things that Harris does is hire Hillary Clinton as an advisor on how to handle the orange goblin.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:00 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

God I hope the DNC are in a room right now not fighting over details but laser fucking focused on the gift this is. This could be the most watched convention ever and they have a real chance to completely flip the narrative and win this.

Democracy is our ride or die. So jump in losers, we’re going winning!
posted by inflatablekiwi at 12:00 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

Maybe if we get Harris/Newsom, then when the attack ads go "Harris/Newsom shit!!!" we can all nod along sagely. "And still does."
posted by pulposus at 12:02 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

It's Joever

I get that "Joever" is supposed to be pronounced "jover," but I can't be the only person who instinctively parses it as "Joe-ever," right? Or at least permanently quavering between the two? In any case, I'm glad that barely-a-pun can be retired now. I'm still worried about what the future holds, but a whole lot less worried than a few hours ago.
posted by nobody at 12:03 PM on July 21 [36 favorites]

I fear we're about to see an epic amount of sexism and racism.
posted by JHarris at 12:03 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Can't be Harris/Newsom as they are both from California. Rest easy
posted by djseafood at 12:04 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Unfortunately reality doesn’t matter. Even if there is no cognitive decline, which in my opinion there is, the perception among the general public is that Biden is unfit.

Journalists like simple stories about elections. The story of this election was Biden Is Too Old, like the 2004 election was Swift Boats and the 2016 election was Buttery Male. It's unfair and reductionist, but that's how it is. Now Harris can judo flip the age issue onto IMPOTUS.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:04 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

“the best time to bow out of your re-election campaign is three and a half years ago. the second best time is today”
posted by a flock of goslings at 12:05 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Harris / Inanimate Carbon Rod 2024!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:05 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Bernie Sanders: older than Joe Biden, but younger than Colonel Sanders!

I'm kind of relieved. I think anyone who's had a family member or friend experience cognitive decline kind of saw what was happening.
posted by phooky at 12:06 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Yeah, can't be Newsom. Could it really be Harris/Buttigeg? Or Harris/Jeffries? Or Warren or Bernie?

Can't be two women, or two african-americans, or...

Can't currently think of who would run with Harris that would be acceptable to America.
posted by Windopaene at 12:08 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Sen Mark Kelly (AZ) would make an excellent pick. His wife is also Gabby Giffords.

And Gov Hobbs can nominate his replacement in the Senate.
posted by ishmael at 12:08 PM on July 21 [44 favorites]

ELECT A BLACK WOMAN PRESIDENT AS THE BIGGEST FUCK YOU TO THE MAGA FUCKS AND THE FASCIST BILLIONAIRES.

This is my number one goto about why you, my fellow angry anarchist, should vote for Harris. Harm reduction and preserving lives is great, sure. But think of the delicious fash tears if Trump loses to a black woman? Isn't it worth it, if it makes even one proud boy cry?
posted by pattern juggler at 12:09 PM on July 21 [80 favorites]

Roy Cooper, term limited in North Carolina, has strength in a swing state, nothing to lose by adding him to the ticket as VP, since he can't run for N.C. governor again.

Cooper was my governor for years (and was unfortunate enough to have to deal with a veto-proof GOP supermajority after a shithead Democrat who ran in a Dem-leaning district switched her party affiliation after getting into office), but the man has almost no charisma on the stump. Could he deliver NC for the Dems? Possibly, but he only won office in 2016 by a slim margin against the incumbent GOP governor: 49.02% to 48.80%. He did better as an incumbent himself in 2020, winning 51.5% to 47%, but those aren't stellar numbers either.

He'd be better than Buttigieg on the ticket, but I'm waiting to hear some other choices.
posted by mediareport at 12:09 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

I get that "Joever" is supposed to be pronounced "jover," but I can't be the only person who instinctively parses it as "Joe-ever," right?

Jover and done with
Joever and ever

Not that it matters now, but...
posted by Shepherd at 12:09 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Harris/Pritzker ?
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:09 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I wonder what he negotiated as his golden parachute?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:10 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Baby boomers are usually considered 1946-1964 so not only is Obama definitely still Baby Boomer but arguably Harris is as well. In any case, she's still the most recently born presumptive party nominee by a couple of years.
posted by xigxag at 12:10 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Can't currently think of who would run with Harris that would be acceptable to America.

Andy Beshear is intriguing. Not a fan of his Israel stance tho
posted by oneirodynia at 12:11 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I would put money on it being NC Gov Roy Cooper for VP. A fine choice.
posted by BeginAgain at 12:11 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

also, just because the average democratic voter’s preference happened to line up with the party/donors’ preference this time doesn’t mean i have to hand it to them for protecting my interests. they were also behind joe in 2020, when we had the exact same complaint that he was too old to run.

i would have much preferred him declining to run for a second term at all, like he said he would, than him dropping out because the people with money finally caught up to the rest of us in their opinion of his fitness for office.
posted by a flock of goslings at 12:12 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Sen Mark Kelly (AZ) would make an excellent pick. His wife is also Gabby Giffords.

And Gov Hobbs can nominate his replacement in the Senate.

this Arizona resident would be happy to donate our electable astronaut in service of the nation
posted by taquito sunrise at 12:12 PM on July 21 [39 favorites]

I think it's time we start talking about how Trump is too old to be President.
posted by AlSweigart at 12:13 PM on July 21 [106 favorites]

I wonder what he negotiated as his golden parachute?

A lifetime of free softserv at the capitol commissary.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:13 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

I am glad Biden saw the light and stepped down. I think Harris is the best replacement we could reasonably hope for. I look forward to voting for her.

Will be interesting to see what happens when the Republican machine inevitably* starts calling Harris a "DEI hire candidate" or the like, considering the number of non-straight, non-white, non-male members of the GOP. Are conservatives even incapable of that level of self-awareness?


*or maybe they already do. I don't listen to fascists.
posted by JohnFromGR at 12:13 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Honestly, my big worry now is that something happens that causes *Trump* to step down between now and November and gives the GOP the opportunity to put forward a smarter, more “presentable” fascist standard-bearer.

Nah, remember what is at stake for him - he is not only running for office, but more so to escape culpability for his numerous crimes. He CANNOT withdraw.
posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 12:13 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Andy Beshear is intriguing. Not a fan of his Israel stance tho

Actually no, I don't want him as VP even if I think he'd get some extra people to vote.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:13 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

"I like stems, I like seeds..."

Hope Dark Brandon goes to town with his new SC powers...
posted by Windopaene at 12:15 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Biden.com is owned by assholes, official site is JoeBiden.com and is fine.
posted by theora55 at 12:15 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

As a non-american, I'm just glad that it looks like Trump is not such a shoe-in to win now, future Supreme Court assisted coup-attempt aside; Trump-Harris polling looks a hell of a lot better than Trump-Biden, and she's barely known - a good campaign now means she stands a real chance against the rapist felon Putin-buddy (I mean WTF to be here at all, but WDIK). We're all counting on you!
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:15 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Harris / Inoffensive White Guy 2024!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on July 21

Harris / Sperry Topsider
posted by 1024 at 12:15 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

If anybody cares, the Clintons just endorsed Harris (nyt). At least the party money will be behind her.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:16 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

anodyne man or an actual shoe, either works to debate JD Vance
posted by 1024 at 12:16 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I hope that one of the first things that Harris does is hire Hillary Clinton
No, no, no. Too many people have a strong knee-jerk reaction against her. I hope Harris stays far, far away from Hillary Clinton and other people from previous administrations, at least until after she wins the election.
posted by pracowity at 12:16 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

Also, I really want to buy a beer for whoever it was that inside the Biden campaign that conceived of and then got the principals onboard with the early debate proposal. They may not have known it at the time. But that person changed history.

The self-own heard 'round the world
posted by kensington314 at 12:16 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Can't currently think of who would run with Harris that would be acceptable to America.

I don't think America would really care that much as long as her running mate is a white guy. I HOPE she won't go for an elderly white guy because we just saw how well that works, but I think it's a given that her VP will be a white man.

As for which specific middle aged white guy? I dunno, I think from an electoral standpoint they're more or less interchangeable. I'm not sure the idea of a VP pick adding pull in the VP's state was ever valid so I don't think even that matters much. As long as it's a person that will calm a few Democratic leaning bigots that's all that matters.

Honestly I think Newsom would work despite him being Californian. He wouldn't be the best pick but I doubt he'd do her any harm.
posted by sotonohito at 12:17 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Trying to think of a middle west VP pick for Harris and honestly Tim Walz MN Gov sure fits the bill really well.


How about a two-time Dem Governor of an otherwise blood-Red state who also holds one of the highest approval ratings of any Governor in America?

Meet Andy Beshear.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 12:17 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

It's gonna be Beshear for Veep, because that maybe pulls Kentucky.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:18 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Could it be that all of those voters who are scared of a woman of color are already MAGA, so can't be lost at this point?

That's the big gamble. God, let's hope. I do think there might be some people out there who would have been fairly checked out at this point, neither particularly thrilled by Biden or Trump, not following the debates, planning to sit this one out, who will be motivated to vote for Trump now to prevent Harris.

The theory is that some people who wouldn't have voted for Biden will now vote for Kamela - I find it much harder for me to imagine that sort of person. Maybe if all the people who cried for Biden's head would now see it as at a mark against them if the next Dem candidate polls even worse, and campaign their hearts out for her... I think that's definetly what _should_ happen, but will it?

At any rate, lots of people will cry bloody murder if it isn't Harris and rightfully so, there shouldn't be a discussion; nothing good could come of that.

I think the real headache has only begun.

But it's too early to spell doom and gloom. Trump's victory was far from guaranteed last time, it's far from guaranteed now - one of these days he might run out of his luck.

I do think it would make for a great story if Biden's remarkable step today helps pave the way for the first female president of the USA, but then again, I'm in the target group for that sort of narrative; I'm not the sort of person who would have to be won over.
posted by sohalt at 12:20 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Nah, remember what is at stake for him - he is not only running for office, but more so to escape culpability for his numerous crimes. He CANNOT withdraw.

That is a small consolation.

I hope he is miserable every waking second. I hope he never has a night of dreams. He is appalling awful. I ran out of words to describe him years ago.

He fits every definition of the anti-christ. He embodies all 7 deadly sins. He's the zealot's choice.

I've never hated anyone like I hate Trump. The amount of damage this one foul thing has done to politics, society, law, discourse, civility, human rights, economic justice, the "justice" system, the environment...
posted by Savannah at 12:20 PM on July 21 [62 favorites]

Harris/Pritzker ?

Please no. It's been so long since we had a Gov who wasn't a complete shit show. I'd like to keep him a while longer.
posted by MrBobaFett at 12:20 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

I'm from Illinois and I hate billionaires on principle, but I have to admit I have a positive opinion of Pritzker. He's terrific at two of the things Dems habitually suck at: calling bullshit in a plainspoken way and thumping his chest when he accomplishes something.

But I still figure Beshear for the red state credibility.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:22 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Countdown for the Media to start calling on Democrats to nominate Manchin/Romney for the good of the country. 5, 4, 3, 2....
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:22 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Anyway, this is electric. Look at Dark Brandon stomping all over TFG’s bandaid and post-convention bump to redirect all the juice.
posted by notyou at 12:22 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

House Republicans: Biden must resign (NBC)
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:22 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

If you are in a position to and are able, it would be a good time to donate to the Democratic campaign.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:23 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Beshear will do more impactful work as a Dem Governor in a deep red state than he will as Veep.
posted by metaxa at 12:23 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

thumping his cheat lol DOT
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:23 PM on July 21

Maybe Biden can use his lame duck monarch's immunity to do some humane and strategic illegality on his way out. (Wishcasting I know)

He doesn’t have that. The SCOTUS decision was that they got to decide who has immunity in which cases, which will almost certainly follow party lines. One of the big reasons why we need to back Harris strongly is that she needs enough backing to tackle court reform with the activist judges running amok.
posted by adamsc at 12:23 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

A consideration when thinking about who to pull from where: Is the seat safe? Kentucky, no. Arizona, also not super safe but safer than Kentucky. Illinois turning red means that the portals to hell have already been unsealed.
posted by Slackermagee at 12:23 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

She has to pick a popular swing state governor who could make the state actually swing her way. That's Pennsylvania, not Kentucky.
posted by pracowity at 12:24 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

I'm so into it because how hard is Hillary Clinton coping and seething right now?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:24 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

The NYT has already started on questioning Harris' candidacy: (emphasis mine)

The key person to watch is Ms. Harris. If she becomes the consensus candidate, backed by Mr. Biden and other Democratic leaders, potential competitors with White House ambitions will have a big decision to make: challenge her, in a risky maneuver that could lead to damaging intraparty divisions, or stand aside in the name of Democratic unity.

The Democratic Party has a deep bench now. Among the potential candidates to watch are a handful of governors: Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Gavin Newsom of California, JB Pritzker of Illinois and Andy Beshear of Kentucky. Other potential candidates include Pete Buttigieg, the secretary of transportation, and Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Cory Booker of New Jersey.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:25 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Fun fact: if Tim Walz becomes Vice-President, Peggy Flanagan (a registered member of the White Earth Band of Ojibwe) would move up to become the first Native American Governor of Minnesota.
posted by gimonca at 12:25 PM on July 21 [30 favorites]

and Hunter is going to prison! Jill Biden will be forever irrelevant!
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:25 PM on July 21

Harris / Inoffensive White Guy 2024!

I would pay good money to watch Buttigieg wipe the floor with Vance in a debate. Even more if we could watch him eviscerate Trump.
posted by simra at 12:25 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Trump Campaign Prepares Attack Plan for Harris in Case Biden Withdraws (July 20, 2024)

i’m afraid we can’t bank on republicans “not having a plan” for this, actually. the above is quite detailed on what it will be
posted by a flock of goslings at 12:26 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Nah, remember what is at stake for him - he is not only running for office, but more so to escape culpability for his numerous crimes. He CANNOT withdraw.

Also, there is no more 'presentable' fascist--every time Republicans think they've found one (Ron DeSantis, Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, Mike Johnson, J.D. Vance...), as soon as they're in front of an audience that isn't already in the tank, they all come off like charisma-challenged weirdos. (Trump supposedly picked Vance for VP on the advice of Eric and Don Jr., which seems like it might be illustrative.)

Meanwhile, the Trump base (which, reminder, isn't even the whole R electorate) continuously makes it very clear that they're in it for the personality cult.
posted by box at 12:27 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

I am convinced Joe Biden believed he could win, believed he could do another 4 years of good work. I think he got screwed by the media, who could only tell one story. He's leaving the race reluctantly, and I think he deserves respect and thanks.

I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris has VP picks in mind, has been and will be meeting with DNC, Biden and advisors, listen to voters and news, and will wait a short while, then announce a pick.

The thought of another 4 years of the orange fascist's voice and image on the news /shudder/. Let's actually consider, in real life, getting her elected, no matter how cynical we can be on MeFi. It matters. It matters a lot.
posted by theora55 at 12:28 PM on July 21 [89 favorites]

The theory is that some people who wouldn't have voted for Biden will now vote for Kamela - I find it much harder for me to imagine that sort of person

I can extremely easily imagine that person, it's called "person who is checked out of politics because they believe - no matter how wrongly - 'meh, both candidates are the same', because when they glance at the news for the three daily seconds that they commit to current events they see two old white barely cogent pieces of shit."

Now the democrats have done the smart thing which is actually try to draw a fucking contrast with their opposition. This is a good thing folks, this is a very good thing.
posted by windbox at 12:28 PM on July 21 [49 favorites]

also, please let harris not pick any of the also-rans from 2020 as her VP? having to remember the clusterfuck that was that primary will just sting all the more (and undermine her image as “someone new” to boot)
posted by a flock of goslings at 12:28 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Beshear or Bredesen.
posted by jgirl at 12:28 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

I'm so into it because how hard is Hillary Clinton coping and seething right now?

We are honored to join the President in endorsing Vice President Harris and will do whatever we can to support her.

Full throated endorsement.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:29 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

I like the idea of Kelly. Astronaut beats Marine. Even as a right winger my dad was fascinated by the study of him and his twin and the effects of space on the body. As morbid as it sounds Giffords counteracts Trump being barely shot with a much worse situation and the recovery from that. And I think it gets Arizona which even though Republicans there are off in crazytown (sugar. baby.) Trump still had a chance of winning.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:29 PM on July 21 [45 favorites]

House Republicans: Biden must resign (NBC)

LOL, thanks for immediately pointing out the thing we shouldn't do.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:29 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

Joe, you have immunity until next Jan. Let's Do This!
posted by theora55 at 12:30 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

Well now I do hope Joe will be puttering around the west wing asking random functionaries "can I call seal team six now?"
posted by sammyo at 12:30 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Credible non-ranked new VP picks mentioned so far:

Pritzker (IL)
Beshear (KY)
Walz (MN)
Kelly (AZ)
Shapiro (PA)
Buttigieg (IN)
Cooper (NC)
posted by djseafood at 12:30 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

bluesky43, deep breaths. This all happened in the last couple of hours - I wouldn't say it means anything that the NYTimes framed it that way - let's wait until at least tomorrow before we descend into doomerism.

Anyway, the Congressional Black Caucus came out with a very strong endorsement of Harris. So have a lot of individual members of Congress. I can't imagine who would want to challenge her at this juncture.
posted by coffeecat at 12:30 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

DNC says it will be orderly and transparent: https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/07/21/election-2024-biden-trump-campaign-updates/#link-7DHQ7P37QBFRNEXVXIGIFGELX4
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:31 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

I really did think the Biden decline stuff was mostly media-driven nonsense, and hey, maybe it was, who knows?

After 2016 humbled the fuck out of me, I no longer feel confident making any predictions whatsoever about elections, but hell, at least this is gonna be interesting.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:31 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

"Honestly I think Newsom would work despite him being Californian. He wouldn't be the best pick but I doubt he'd do her any harm."

I think you misunderstand the "fruits and nuts" negative reputation California has in other states. This Californian says having two Californians on the ticket would be a mistake.
posted by Mo Nickels at 12:33 PM on July 21 [42 favorites]

I don‘t know if Harris brings more voters alongside, but she at least she may motivate the base better than Biden. I mean, we‘ve already seen that in this thread.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:33 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I also like Kelly. If he becomes VP, my understanding is that the Arizona gov has to replace him with a member of the same party. So no risk on that front.

I think Shapiro would also be pretty good if he could bring PA.
posted by thechameleon at 12:33 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Will be interesting to see what happens when the Republican machine inevitably* starts calling Harris a "DEI hire candidate" or the like, considering the number of non-straight, non-white, non-male members of the GOP. Are conservatives even incapable of that level of self-awareness?

Oh, but if you're a white woman or BiPOC Republican you square it with yourself by saying that you're not like the Democratic ones - the other ones are DEI hires, you earned your place. As you can see by looking around at how few there are like you in positions of power. You must be the best!

I'm sure we'll hear a lot of DEI hire nonsense, but it will be in the service of whipping up the base into a fine froth and won't do much to the Democrats.

I personally think that the number of people who would vote for NEITHER Harris nor Biden is meaningfully smaller than the number of people who wouldn't vote for Biden. I think that if Harris is the candidate and manages to at least provide the outside possibility of an end to the genocide in Palestine while there are still living Palestinians, people will be only too glad to vote for her, and if she and her people are at all clever, they can do that, whatever their real intentions may be.
posted by Frowner at 12:34 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Also, the media now needs to find a new story. Dems rallying to support a new surprise candidate is a great story.

There'll be interviews, photo shoots, etc. New things get eyeballs. It's millions in free positive PR.Trump will get backburnered, which will make him even madder and more unhinged with public statements. Not a great look going into a general election.

And you just know he'll spout some misogynistic and/or racist bullshit to alienate suburban women voters.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:35 PM on July 21 [41 favorites]

bluesky43, deep breaths. This all happened in the last couple of hours - I wouldn't say it means anything that the NYTimes framed it that way - let's wait until at least tomorrow before we descend into doomerism.

Thanks but I don't need to be told to take deep breaths or have my skepticism about the goals of the NYTs questioned. There is a lot of doomer-ism in this thread,and on this site in the past few weeks, mine was not that.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:35 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Cori Bush is the first squad member to get behind Harris.

"As we look forward to November, it is clear to me that Vice President Kamala Harris has the vision to carry this legacy forward, defeat Donald Trump, and I unequivocally endorse her for President of the United States."

posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:35 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Ilhan Omar as well:

Thank you, Mr. President.

This was the president’s decision to make and I’m grateful for his years of service to our country.

Thrilled to support @KamalaHarris as our Democratic nominee and remain committed to working alongside her to defeat Donald Trump in November.

posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:37 PM on July 21 [48 favorites]

Sanders:

Joe Biden has served our country with honor and dignity.

As the first president to ever walk on a picket line with striking workers, he has been the most pro-working class president in modern American history.

Thank you, Mr. President, for all you’ve done.

posted by pracowity at 12:37 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

I didn't think it was possible, getting on the ballots? Sorry, haven't read the whole thread
posted by honey badger at 12:37 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

The Democratic Party is about to see if it can mimic Britain: a huge consequential election in just over a month.

Many democracies around the world manage to run complete elections from dissolving government to installing the new one in a few weeks. Just picking a candidate is very doable.
posted by Mitheral at 12:38 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

The interview with Dana Goodyear linked by coffeecat above is really informative and interesting. Not uncritical and for me a confirmation of some suspicions I already had about Biden -- and about Harris.
posted by mumimor at 12:40 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

a huge consequential election in just over a month

Also, there are 10 and a half weeks between August 22nd and November 5th.
posted by mediareport at 12:41 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Just purchased a Harris 2024 lawn sign (random one off Etsy - will get the official one when they are out post convention).

106 days until the election. Action builds momentum
posted by inflatablekiwi at 12:41 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

I know there are Biden stans out there who are mad, but it's a little ridiculous to say the president of the United States was "forced" to do anything. If he was convinced he was the best person for the task, he wouldn't have done this, but he was convinced otherwise by a large groundswell of party leaders and public opinion. Let's thank him for the good things he accomplished and thank him for the humility to pass the torch when the option to stay in the spotlight was right there.
posted by rikschell at 12:42 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

all the public information is that Biden is suffering from some serious cognitive decline

Oh, honey
posted by stevil at 12:42 PM on July 21 [24 favorites]

Also seeing that the CPC and New Dems have endorsed her - it's a done deal.
posted by coffeecat at 12:42 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Cori Bush is the first squad member to get behind Harris.

Makes sense, most of the Squad has been publicly and loudly supporting Biden during this entire mess.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:42 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Damn, I really like the Mark Kelly suggestion.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 12:43 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

I mean there obviously will be some process to name the nominee. With everybody, including Biden, lining up behind Harris, it will just be about as competitive as the primaries were. I’m sure Marianne Williamson will be banging on the door of the convention asking to be let in to plead her case there too, that’s the level of opposition I expect.
posted by BeginAgain at 12:44 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

If all this does is get some of the 18-30 voters off their couch on voting day it’ll be worth it. This changes the media dynamic and hopefully makes the GOP look even more unhinged.

My dream is for Trump to say something about how he’s already taking to foreign leaders during the debate and have Harris say “thank you for admitting to a crime.”
posted by Farce_First at 12:44 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Can't currently think of who would run with Harris that would be acceptable to America.

Gritty?
posted by clawsoon at 12:44 PM on July 21 [99 favorites]

I would love so much to be optimistic but this Patton Oswalt tweet has been rattling around in my brain for 7+ years.

I don't have generous thoughts about the American people. I think [enter here as much qualifying personal opinion language as you need] Harris is too female and too brown to win. I hate that's what my gut is telling me but I have met too many people to have any real confidence about her candidacy.

I have never wanted to be wrong more in my life. I hope I am.
posted by phunniemee at 12:47 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

Makes sense, most of the Squad has been publicly and loudly supporting Biden during this entire mess.

i was going to say, the left side of the party (ironically?) has been vocal about rallying around the chosen candidate for a while so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re modelling party unity now.
posted by a flock of goslings at 12:47 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

Joseph R. Biden, once considered too young to serve, now too old to win (NBC July 21, 2024)

What motivated Joe Biden to run for president [tl:dr Trump's response to Charlottesville] (PBS, April 26, 2019)

Biden's been a public servant longer than I've been alive.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:48 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

>> You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you

> I’m sure Marianne Williamson will be banging on the door of the convention

why would she need to, given that she’s learned how to astrally project into kamala harris’s body?
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:48 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Gritty grits whether you accept it or not. Gritty is the hot light in the darkness. Gritty flows through time and space. Gritty is inevitable.

Violent gritting ensues.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:49 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

I know there are Biden stans out there who are mad, but it's a little ridiculous to say the president of the United States was "forced" to do anything. If he was convinced he was the best person for the task, he wouldn't have done this, but he was convinced otherwise by a large groundswell of party leaders and public opinion.

Yeah I guess my feeling on this is like - there's a good chance this happened more because people think he can't win in the current media environment than because he's actually becoming incapable of doing the job, but if that's true... well, then it's true, so this was still a rational response whether this was all perception-based or not.

I didn't want this to happen because I was worried it would result in more chaos and hurt the Dems' chances, but looking around online I mostly see relief and excitement, so fuck it. If Trump loses now to a new candidate, that's maybe better for Biden's legacy than anything he might have accomplished in a second term.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:49 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

> Biden's been a public servant longer than I've been alive.

joe biden’s been alive longer than the modern state of israel has existed
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:49 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

I would love so much to be optimistic but this Patton Oswalt tweet has been rattling around in my brain for 7+ years.

Special elections have had some really surprising results benefitting the Democrats post-Dobbs. A lot of people who don't usually make much political noise will quietly crawl over broken glass to reduce their risk of dying of an ectopic pregnancy in a hospital parking lot.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:49 PM on July 21 [45 favorites]

i, for one, am ready to exist in the context of all in which i live and what came before me

I regret to inform you that I did in fact fall out of a coconut tree.
posted by wierdo at 12:51 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Sorry, the interview coffeecat linked to is with Elaina Plott Calabro
posted by mumimor at 12:53 PM on July 21

If there's a ticket we know of going in there is a ghost of a chance to avoid catastrophe. If it goes honest to god open then whoever gets the nod is gonna do the Full Mondale.

We look like the Keystone Kops over here.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:54 PM on July 21

I’m assuming Harris also locks up the Desi voting block
posted by jasondigitized at 12:54 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

As an Arizonan I think Kelly would be a smart choice. First of all, the governor appoints his replacement - but not until the seat is officially vacant, so it would be after Election Day. This is important because the appointed replacement - who by law must be from the same party - holds the office until the next general election, when the voters choose who will serve out the rest of the Senate term, until 2028. This guarantees a Dem Senator from AZ until at least 2027. Second, he won two senate elections in two years. He won in 2020 to finish John McCain’s term. Then he won a full term in 2022 and he won that one going away. The candidate he beat was very much in the mold of JD Vance. It was another Thiel apprentice with similar batshit views. Third, everyone knows that he’s a retired astronaut (not just someone who rode up on rockets, he was the pilot for the space shuttle on two missions and the commander on two others) but he is also a decorated Navy Pilot. He’s flown over three dozen combat missions and has close to 400 carrier landings. The military experience is a bonus - particularly in Arizona. That leads to my fourth point. He’s popular in Arizona and Biden winning the state in 2020 was not only a surprise but was important in winning the race. If he can bridge the gap and help Harris win AZ, that is massively important. Keep in mind that an abortion rights amendment to the state constitution is on the ballot if the state Supreme Court doesn’t fuck it up (and if they do that could backfire, over 800,000 people signed and the GOP is nervous about two of the justices’ prospects for retention this year.) So I’m not saying he’s a slam dunk but he’s got a strong argument.
posted by azpenguin at 12:56 PM on July 21 [79 favorites]

Shortly after his wife was shot a friend predicted that Mark Kelly could be President, if he wanted.

I think you misunderstand the "fruits and nuts" negative reputation California has in other states. This Californian says having two Californians on the ticket would be a mistake.

Completely agree. Golden State hatred's been a given for years, and since the pandemic, it's gotten worse.
posted by Rash at 12:57 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

There are no guarantees, but for the first time in a long time, I am feeling hope. A tiny glimmer of hope. Harris/Kelly 2024!
posted by ishmael at 12:57 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

I’m assuming Harris also locks up the Desi voting block.

I suspect JD Vance's wife would beg to differ. Not to mention the Trump-Modi mutual self-admiration axis.
posted by senor biggles at 12:58 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

I think we are headed for some sort of open convention.
I'm sure it will go smoothly.
posted by pracowity at 12:58 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

I don‘t know if Harris brings more voters alongside, but she at least she may motivate the base better than Biden. I mean, we‘ve already seen that in this thread.

My wife is a member of progressive political group in Orange County, CA called WAVE and can confirm, the base is fired up.
posted by notyou at 12:58 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

I am convinced Joe Biden believed he could win, believed he could do another 4 years of good work. I think he got screwed by the media, who could only tell one story. He's leaving the race reluctantly, and I think he deserves respect and thanks.

My grandfather still thought he could drive his car, but I'm damn glad his kids took away his car keys before he killed someone.

Yes, Biden was still sharp at times. Yes, he definitely thought he could do it. But he was not bringing anything close to an A Game to the campaign. Think of the energy that Obama brought to his campaigns, engaging with people from morning to night, day after day after day. Biden could muster some very smart answers to some complicated questions. I'm sure he could govern. But none of that means he should have stayed in the race.

I have great respect for what he's done as president. But it's good he's making way for someone else to continue the fight.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:58 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

And thanks Joe for putting country over self.

A stark a contrast as any.
posted by mazola at 12:58 PM on July 21 [53 favorites]

I just love it when the political dilettantes suggest celebrities for the Presidency, it makes me feel so confident in Idiocracy being fiction.

I know it's tough being the adult in the room, but lets treat the office with some respect.
posted by Sphinx at 12:59 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

I'm pretty sure Kamala Harris has VP picks in mind, has been and will be meeting with DNC, Biden and advisors, listen to voters and news, and will wait a short while, then announce a pick.

I'm pretty sure Harris--and her people, and the Democratic Party bigwigs--have been anticipating this very scenario for a very long time, and have all manner of notes and reports and plans. Buttigieg would be a likely choice at this point. They might as well call it the Centrist / Corporate Democrat ticket, but if they beat Trump this leftist will happily vote for them.
posted by zardoz at 1:00 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

People are going to have to be super, super focused and disciplined: we need to have laser focus on winning the election, and then we need to have laser focus on holding the Harris administration accountable, both on the issues where the Biden administration has been ok and on the ones where it has been awful. And I really believe we can do both of those things, but we're going to have to block out a lot of noise, both before and after the election.

Anyway, I'm feeling cautiously optimistic, if only because it will be nice to think about something other than Biden's age for about five minutes until the New York Times settles on whatever it will smear Harris with.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:00 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

I mean I think it's less about public perception of California & more about Article II of the Constitution specifying electors can only vote for a ticket if one of the people on it is not from their state
posted by taquito sunrise at 1:00 PM on July 21 [39 favorites]

The ticket is not going to be a black woman and a gay man

We don’t live in that country
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:04 PM on July 21 [38 favorites]

Harris on unity, two days ago. This is gonna be awesome.
posted by kaibutsu at 1:05 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Stacey Abrams:

Throughout his career, Joe Biden has shown resilience and a deep belief in the power of unity and democracy. His steadfast stewardship will continue to inspire us as we move forward to build a better America.

Now, more than ever, we must not only unite to ensure that Donald Trump does not return to the White House—we must champion a vibrant vision for our next American chapter. It is our responsibility to lift every voice and pick up the mantle and fight for justice, equality and democracy.

Let’s rally together and show the world the strength and resilience of our democracy. Together, we will build a brighter future for all.
posted by box at 1:07 PM on July 21 [47 favorites]

Also note that mark kelly's wife, gabby giffords, was an AZ pol who was SHOT in an assassination attempt.

I'm not above neutralizing trump's drooling "I'm a martyr only I was shot for america" with "political violence affects us all, but only one of us has tried to stop violence, and not encourage it"
posted by lalochezia at 1:08 PM on July 21 [48 favorites]

Just so everyone realizes, Biden can't resign and make Harris President cause then there wouldn't be a VP. And to get a new VP the House has to agree. Remember on J6 when Pence was the key figure to certify the electoral college votes? Well, if there's no VP that job falls to the President pro tempore of the Senate, currently Patty Murray but highly likely to be Chuck Grassley when the new Congress is sworn in after the election. So unless you want to risk Chuck Grassley being in charge of certifying the election in January, Joe can't resign.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:11 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

We don’t live in that country

We didn't live in a country where a Black man could be President, until we did.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:11 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

I'm fine with this, it's for the best, he wasn't my first pick as a candidate but he was the coalesced-upon choice to keep us from getting slaughtered with Sanders, so, fine, but he turned out to be A+ or even S-tier as a president, way above expectations, especially given lack of support in Congress and the right-wing Wurlitzer. It also seemed really strategically problematic to swap out an incumbent this late in the game, so I guess I'm a diehard Biden fan?

But the people on here who are like the elites staged a coup, what the hell? Use Occam's Razor: the likelihood that his collecting taxes on rich people caused them to stage a health crisis and overthrow him is far, far less than the likelihood that most of them were as snowed as we were about his manifest decline, panicked and demanded he get swapped out. And fuck yes I'm voting for Harris/Whoever.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 1:11 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

I was not passionate about Biden staying in, and I was not passionate about replacing him on the ticket, but I'm so fucking relieved that we won't have another week of "maybe Biden should be replaced by Mitt Romney in an open convention"-level discourse.
posted by grandiloquiet at 1:12 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

I hope this, and the process of getting a new nominee in, sucks the news cycle away from Trump for a good long while. In part because we all know he can’t handle not being the center of attention.
posted by antinomia at 1:13 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Tooze:

"I honestly don't get what is heroic here. Not carping. Just can't relate
@ezraklein
Biden and the team around him made a historic mistake with disastrous implications. Why, after the shambles of last few weeks, are we giving "big boy" merit badges for this belated admission?"
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:13 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

[...] Biden can't resign and make Harris President cause then there wouldn't be a VP. And to get a new VP the House has to agree. Remember on J6 when Pence was the key figure to certify the electoral college votes? [...]

Discussed at length in the last thread. No, Congress probably wouldn't approve a new VP, that just means the seat remains open until January. The VP's role in certifying electoral college votes is ceremonial only, always has been and is even more so since 2022.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:13 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Romney/Noem 2024! Make dogs scared again!
posted by East14thTaco at 1:14 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

I'm optimistic and excited about Kamala. I'd love a Harris-Buttigieg ticket. (And I feel like I shouldn't need to say this, but I'm a straight white guy in his thirties.)

That said, I think Biden would have done fine against Trump, and even well into his second term. Being the President, and coming across well on TV, are two entirely different skill sets.

For those of you who were clamoring for Joe to step down, you got your wish. Let us all hope you know what you're talking about.
posted by khrusanthemon at 1:15 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

The ticket is not going to be a black woman and a gay man

We don’t live in that country

What if we said fuck it and did though?
posted by corb at 1:16 PM on July 21 [95 favorites]

Ilia Ponomarenko said it well:

I must say that what Joe Biden has done is truly outstanding, regardless of one’s opinion on him.

Stepping aside and putting his country over himself, refraining from holding power (the most additive drug in all of history) with his stone cold fingers, making a decision to leave when he formally never had to.

That’s impressive.

Frankly, I didn’t believe the old man would find the strength to do it.

But it appears that Joe has enough honor and respect to his own legacy to do what is right, and this deserves great respect, truly.

Only the ones who are able to cede power voluntarily truly deserve having it.
posted by mstokes650 at 1:18 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Where should I donate money to? So I can do something today?
posted by honey badger at 1:20 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Didn’t expect to see Ezra Klein coming into the thread sounding like Matthew Iglesias, TBH.
posted by notyou at 1:21 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Yeah, she was born two months before the Baby Boom ended. Sigh. It would have been nice to say.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:22 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Democracy is our ride or die. So jump in losers, we’re going winning!

So Mary, climb in
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
posted by chavenet at 1:22 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

You know who else stepped down so that others might run?

George Washington
posted by antinomia at 1:22 PM on July 21 [35 favorites]

I was hesitant to open this thread but I am somewhat heartened. Thanks, MeFi!
posted by Glinn at 1:24 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Does Buttigieg pass the "replace the President experience test"? His resume is still small city mayor and medium-size cabinet portfolio.

Also it seems to me that having someone who was not in the Biden administration would be a benefit, considering the surprisingly poor reputation of that admin.

And whoever that might be, if they are the person who has the best chance of helping beat Trump, even if they are "needed" in West Virginia or wherever, the national election is too important, including for those same people in West Virginia, that must get the very best and most effective person for the VP slot.
posted by Rumple at 1:24 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

“Why, after the shambles of last few weeks, are we giving "big boy" merit badges for this belated admission?”

as someone who also thinks this should have happened sooner — what’s this guy’s problem? you’re really gonna rag on people for applauding the correct action? “better late than never” mean nothing to you? whatever, man
posted by a flock of goslings at 1:24 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Pete Buttigieg is such a clever guy. It would be so cool if he could be on the ticket.
posted by nicolin at 1:25 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Where should I donate money to? So I can do something today?

oath has you covered
posted by a flock of goslings at 1:27 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Buttigieg is a goddamn McKinsey ghoul and i hope to hell he's not the VP pick. I can hold my nose and vote for a cop plus an astronaut, but a cop PLUS a McKinsey ghoul? Ugh.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:29 PM on July 21 [46 favorites]

Pete Buttigieg is such a clever guy.

YouTube has been pushing him at me for weeks. He's definitely sharp, on-the-ball, and not afraid to obliterate people like Vance or MTG.
posted by aramaic at 1:29 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

House Republicans: Biden must resign (NBC)


Oh good, they're frightened.
posted by chavenet at 1:29 PM on July 21 [66 favorites]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I do not buy the argument that America is necessarily too sexist or racist to vote for Harris. (That is, I don't believe it is somehow set in stone due to our national character--not that she couldn't possibly lose.) The easy response would be counterexamples--Obama, Hillary Clinton winning the popular vote, Harris herself being part of the winning ticket in the last election. To which someone would be like, "but America only had to choose one aspect to overcome, they didn't have to overcome both racism and sexism at the same time!" But I feel like there's a deeper issue with that argument. The 'America' voting in this election isn't white, isn't male. It's a messy amalgam that has never been less white, less male. Yes, absolutely people are going to make the same shitty points they always do--"In theory I like the idea of a woman candidate, just not THIS woman candidate" or whatever. But those people aren't, like, representative. They don't automatically hold some great cultural sway. They're not everybody. We don't have to listen to them and we don't have to accommodate their little worries.

I think it's going to be the opposite. I think Harris is going to drive people to the polls. She's going to spark discussions no one thought was possible. She's going to offer us the plainest choice in the world, and I think in our gross political environment, that's the healthiest thing that could happen.
posted by mittens at 1:30 PM on July 21 [69 favorites]

I'm feeling kind of optimistic. Not for the long long term. Republicans will respond to Harris's presidency with racism and sexism. Probably a racist backlash equal to or greater than that of anti-Obama.
However, I've come to believe that Biden was in decline. Harris is a perfect contrast to Trump. (Frankly, Trump's convention speech was the first bit of good news in a while. The guy cannot hold it together.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:30 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

The VP's role in certifying electoral college votes is ceremonial only, always has been and is even more so since 2022.

Well-planned coups always have a ceremonial figleaf.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:30 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Historically, white women and POC win when things are a mess and struggle when they're great, just like you get white women and BIPOC as CEOs when the company is on the rocks. That's partly because things tend to be chaotic and so another new thing isn't as big a deal and partly because people figure "eh, let the failure be on the head of the marginalized person", so it's not exactly an attractive line of reasoning, but any port in a storm. I think Harris can win - no guarantees, of course, but this isn't like last time - we know what another Trump presidency means.

I think this is good. Biden might have been able to continue to campaign, but we'd all be holding our breaths for something to happen like the first debate or worse, and now we can focus on the election itself. I was much, much more worried about people freaking out and voting for Trump or staying home or voting for a third party if Biden simply looked like he was getting frailer and frailer than anything else. Granted, that's not the smartest thing for people to do, but some people really do vote like that.

I also think it's good for the party, because most people wanted him to step down as candidate and he did. We're used to the popular will being totally ignored, we're used to Democrats just doing whatever rich people bullshit, and yet we wanted something and we got it. Granted, it won't change much for rich people, but it's good for the spirit. That's why they ignore us most of the time - if you give a people a cookie, they start wanting healthcare, etc.
posted by Frowner at 1:31 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

(Knock on wood) It's crazy to think that Joe Biden, of all people, might be directly/indirectly responsible for helping to usher in not one, but two Black POTUSES.
posted by girlmightlive at 1:31 PM on July 21 [41 favorites]

Just so everyone realizes, Biden can't resign and make Harris President cause then there wouldn't be a VP. And to get a new VP the House has to agree.

Are you saying Nixon couldn't resign, because of Nelson Rockefeller?

Wikipedia: 1974 United States vice presidential confirmation

On August 9, 1974, President Richard Nixon (a Republican) was forced to resign amid the Watergate scandal. Vice President Gerald Ford ascended to the presidency, leaving the office of vice president vacant. Under the terms of the 25th Amendment, a vice presidential vacancy is filled when the president nominates a candidate who is confirmed by both houses of Congress, which were controlled by the Democrats.

On August 20, 1974, Ford announced his nomination of former New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller to fill the vacancy. Rockefeller's nomination dismayed many conservatives; many conservative Democrats and Republicans opposed the nomination. This was especially true among members of the U.S. House of Representatives. However...

The House couldn't prevent Ford's immediate ascendancy; and at least, there in 1974, we didn't have a VP for a couple weeks.
posted by Rash at 1:32 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

We don’t live in that country
What if we said fuck it and did though?

You aren't going to beat Trump/Vance with Harris/Buttigieg. Change will come a little more incrementally than that. Run the tamest straight white dude you can find, get the first woman into the Oval Office, and then see about Pete or whoever.
posted by pracowity at 1:32 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

When I wonder if Biden's decline was all media-generated, I remind myself that he has not spent the year campaigning for reelection. Either he didn't feel like he needed to campaign to stop Trump, or he couldn't, and either way we deserve better.

For comparison, I started canvassing for a local city council candidate in March.

I hope this reinvigorates voters and gets all eyes on the Dems for a few months. Even seeing less of those "mass deportation" signs in the news will be a relief.
posted by tofu_crouton at 1:32 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Well, look at that. I'm an unaffiliated voter who had no intention of voting in this presidential election (I didn't vote for Biden or Trump in the last election), but uh, my ears are open. Maybe if the Democrats ran someone who I viewed as simply bad instead of less evil, I could be moved to vote for a presidential candidate.
posted by spacebologna at 1:35 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Yes, the root of Hillary Clinton’s problem was sexism — but it was a root that was carefully cultivated into a full tree over 24 years, to the point where the nation’s collective “ew, Hillary Clinton” response became a deep reflex. i don’t think there is a correspondent “ew, Kamala Harris” reflex.
posted by argybarg at 1:37 PM on July 21 [48 favorites]

It's crazy to think that Joe Biden, of all people, might be directly/indirectly responsible for helping to usher in not one, but two Black POTUSES.
Why "of all people" -- are you under the impression that Biden is racist?
posted by pracowity at 1:37 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

I am heartened to see nothing so far but endorsements of Harris, and I hope the Democratic Party is for one goddamn time going to stay on message and not shoot itself in the foot.

Let's go Harris/whoever 2024!
posted by the primroses were over at 1:38 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Are you saying Nixon couldn't resign, because of Nelson Rockefeller?

Are you saying that the party that stole a SCOTUS seat from Obama wouldn't do the exact same thing to try to steal an entire election for Trump.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:38 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Harris just released a statement:

“My intention is to earn and win this nomination.”
posted by darkstar at 1:39 PM on July 21 [47 favorites]

Why "of all people" -- are you under the impression that Biden is racist?

Biden was famously not super about Anita Hill in the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:39 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

as someone who also thinks this should have happened sooner — what’s this guy’s problem? you’re really gonna rag on people for applauding the correct action? “better late than never” mean nothing to you? whatever, man

There is a lot of anger at Biden. (And not undeservedly). I think it isn't unreasonable to get fed up with hagiographies of the man.

But also, whatever I feel like Biden was, a lot of people didn't see him that way. They pinned hopes and ideas on the man, and saw good in him that inspired them. And a lot of those people are effectively in mourning today, for the loss of those hopes. And a lot of them are afraid. I think it would be kind of us who never saw him that way to show a little more grace and patience than usual today.

I'll admit I haven't been consistent on that myself, but I think we ought to try.

Why "of all people" -- are you under the impression that Biden is racist?

...
posted by pattern juggler at 1:39 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

I was just watching youtube clips of possible VP picks and got an anti-Harris ad already! Message: “she was complicit in covering up Biden’s mental decline” and also “there is no difference between Biden and Harris on policy.”
posted by Fritzle at 1:40 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

You know who else stepped down so that others might run?

George Washington

Cincinnatus
Pope Benedict
posted by chavenet at 1:41 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Why "of all people" -- are you under the impression that Biden is racist?

Yes, the man who wrote the 1991 Crime Bill and doesn't think Palestinians are human is absolutely fucking racist.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:41 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Can we all just thank Biden for his service and move on? There will be time to decide whether he was a good president later. You can do a whole podcast about it, after the election.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:41 PM on July 21 [55 favorites]

For what it's worth, my understanding is that there's not a lot of evidence that the choice of a VP matters either way. The conventional wisdom used to be that a VP candidate would bring in voters from the VPs home state, but I'm not even sure that presidential candidates have been particularly more likely to win their home states in recent elections. I would probably pick someone who was likely to eviscerate Vance in a debate, because it would be nice to damage that guy's longterm political aspirations. But my hunch is that there aren't a lot of people who would be willing to vote for Harris with a straight VP and not with a gay one.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:42 PM on July 21

Does Buttigieg pass the "replace the President experience test"? His resume is still small city mayor and medium-size cabinet portfolio.

Yeah, not only that but he was also the Secretary of Transportation who inexcusably dragged his feet during the years before the horrific East Palestine derailment on reinstating Obama-era rules that Trump had eliminated requiring electronic railroad brakes. Instead of reinstating and then expanding those rules to include things like the vinyl chloride in that spill, Buttigieg did nothing and then passed the buck later, blaming Congress when he could have pushed for it himself.

Vance has made that derailment one of his signature "working class" issues; Pete is very vulnerable on that.
posted by mediareport at 1:43 PM on July 21 [38 favorites]

she was complicit in covering up Biden’s mental decline

The trouble they're going to have with this tack is that while Biden clearly has a diminished speaking capacity in off-the-cuff situations like interviews and debates, he can still give an absolute barnburner of a speech (e.g., to the NAACP recently). And all he has to do anymore is give speeches!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:43 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Why "of all people" -- are you under the impression that Biden is racist?

He's not always been great about race, that's for sure. But in fact I think his promotion of Obama, Harris and Jackson is the reason the racist allegations against him have never really landed.

I didn't type out what I was thinking because it sounded kinda mean but I meant "of all people" because he's an old white dude. So many of his generation are so hostile to letting other people, especally Black people, get chances.
posted by girlmightlive at 1:44 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

Message: “she was complicit in covering up Biden’s mental decline” and also “there is no difference between Biden and Harris on policy.”

Hmm I wonder how these will resonate vs “Trump is a convicted felon and predator” and “Trump wants to end abortion, I’ll protect it.”
posted by BeginAgain at 1:47 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Yeah, not only that but he was also the Secretary of Transportation who inexcusably dragged his feet during the years before the horrific East Palestine derailment on reinstating Obama-era rules that Trump had eliminated requiring electronic railroad brakes. Instead of reinstating and then expanding those rules to include things like the vinyl chloride in that spill, Buttigieg did nothing and then passed the buck later, blaming Congress when he could have pushed for it himself. Vance has made that derailment one of his signature "working class" issues; Pete is very vulnerable on that.

Wait, what? Buttigieg is vulnerable because he didn't undo something Trump did? WTF...
posted by chavenet at 1:48 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Also Trump is still declining right in front of us.
posted by Selena777 at 1:49 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

I honestly did not expect that, and I really REALLY wish that if he was going to drop out he'd done it sooner.

On the other hand, waiting until after the Republican Convention was over so they couldn’t make hay about it there was good planning.
posted by ejs at 1:50 PM on July 21 [76 favorites]

The news felt like a gut punch and I'm not even a big Biden fan. The racist bile the Rethugs have been spewing about Vance's wife will be as nothing as to what they'll hit Harris with, and you just know they'll find plenty of exciting new ways not to recognize her win even IF she manages to win the electoral vote never mind the popular vote. Pelosi needs to retire yesterday and Clooney's wife needs to make him sleep on the sofa for the next four years.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 1:51 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Pope Benedict

Regarding Pope Benedict. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to him"
posted by delfin at 1:51 PM on July 21 [65 favorites]

I really do not like Pete Buttigieg. It'd be great to have the first openly gay VP, but like, can't it just be...someone else? George Takei? Joan Jett? I realize neither of them has held elected office at a federal level, but do you know who else hasn't? Right.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:52 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

Wait, what? Buttigieg is vulnerable because he didn't undo something Trump did? WTF...

lol yeah, I get that. But "your boss is the guy who did the terrible thing I didn't do anything to fix" isn't such a great argument.
posted by mediareport at 1:52 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Elie Mystal: "My argument for why Harris can win is that she’s in the best position to run the “Abortion, abortion, abortion, also dude is a criminal, abortion, abortion” campaign that has pretty much worked in every state that it’s been run since Dobbs."
posted by mittens at 1:53 PM on July 21 [101 favorites]

Yes, the man who wrote the 1991 Crime Bill and doesn't think Palestinians are human is absolutely fucking racist.

Also the guy who made common cause with segregationists to oppose busing for school integration because he didn't want his kids to grow up in a "racial jungle", and who gave a speech for segregationist John Stennis' birthday where he compared him favourably to Stonewall Jackson. Biden is 100% a white supremacist and racist, based on his own actions and words over a 50+ year public career, and it's kind of amazing (and honestly disgusting) that so many (white) "liberals" are ready to just dismiss all that and bleat about what a "good and decent man" he is.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:54 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

Wait, what? Buttigieg is vulnerable because he didn't undo something Trump did? WTF...

Yes. Politics.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:55 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Joan Jett?

Last I checked, Joan Jett is not openly gay and refuses to comment on her sexuality. That said, Joan Jett has my full endorsement as a matter of principle.
posted by stet at 1:56 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

So hold out for Taylor Swift is what I'm sayin'.
posted by stet at 1:57 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Stet, I believe you are right, on googling. No offense was meant to Vice-President Jett, whose freedom to love is her own and not our business. PS please help us Joan Jett.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:01 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Would love for him to spend the next few months executive ordering it out in a progressive blaze of glory. Nothing to lose. Go Joe go.

From here on out, for the first time in his entire political life, we get to see who the true Joe Biden is. Zero personal electoral concerns. Now we get to see who he really is in terms of unencumbered political desires. I'm both curious and concerned.

He can go all out progressive and give Harris a window to define herself as less progressive. He could go moderate and Harris could define herself as more progressive.

What I am really hoping for though is that Biden gets asked about Joe Manchin and just says "Fuck that guy".
posted by srboisvert at 2:02 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Last I checked, Joan Jett is not openly gay and refuses to comment on her sexuality.


Looks up confusedly at a *the more you know* star
posted by Selena777 at 2:03 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Harris endorsements from billionaire D donors: Reid Hoffman, Alex Soros
posted by box at 2:03 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I saw a pickup last week emblazoned with the slogan "Do not vote for the old man". I wonder if they are removing it now.
posted by Quonab at 2:03 PM on July 21 [44 favorites]

I think anybody who still remembers the attempts to generate scandal around Willie Brown, and thinks the ex-boyfriends of a female politician are relevant as "dirt" is probably already a solid Trump voter.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:04 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

"Willie Brown" fearmongering doesn't resonate to anyone other than Californians over 50. And dude was such an effective Dem legislator that the Republicans passed state term limits to get rid of him specifically.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:06 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

Also Trump is still declining right in front of us.

He could barely contain (to the extent that he did) his misogynist loathing for Clinton, and will be even less able to do so when combined with his racism. Whether he could do something egregious enough to cost him his advantage with white women remains to be seen.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:06 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

What I am really hoping for though is that Biden gets asked about Joe Manchin and just says "Fuck that guy".

It’s pretty funny that Joe Manchin told the press earlier today that he wants the party to hold an open process to replace Biden. You’re not a Dem, fella! You don’t get a say in it.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 2:07 PM on July 21 [47 favorites]

have 👏 you 👏 met 👏 white 👏 women 👏
posted by phunniemee at 2:07 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

Just a reminder for those who think that the fruits and nuts perception argument about Newsom even matter, the twelfth amendment to the US Constitution, concerning Presidential elections, starts with, "The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves…," which means, that as a Californian, Harris needs a Vice President from another state.

Dick Cheney got around this requirement by officially moving from Texas to Wyoming, something that a sitting Governor might have a problem doing.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 2:07 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

I really do not like Pete Buttigieg. It'd be great to have the first openly gay VP, but like, can't it just be...someone else? George Takei? Joan Jett? I realize neither of them has held elected office at a federal level, but do you know who else hasn't? Right.

The Mckinsey years should be straight up disqualifying IMO.
posted by srboisvert at 2:08 PM on July 21 [31 favorites]

Scorching Kamala Harris ad is already made!

(It was for her 2020 primary run, and I swear, it’s already perfect.)
posted by darkstar at 2:08 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

Yeah, i'm already seeing Willie Brown used as an attack point by the MAGATs on social media. But honestly i don't think it'll work all that well, because (a) it was a LONG time ago, and whatever she's done since then has been on her own merits or lack thereof; (b) every woman in any position of power gets accused of sleeping their way to the top, and most folks tune it out.

Look, the biggest issue with Harris is that she is a fucking cop, and ACAB. But that's not something the Republicans can use against her easily, and there are certainly a lot of bootlicking Democrats for whom "law and order" is a big positive.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:09 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

If Willie Brown is the best the republicans have; I mean, I can hear it now, "Willie Brown, Big Willie Brown, a beautiful Big Willie, that's what i hear!, we can't call him Slick Willie because," etc., I don't think it's going to make any real difference to likely democratic voters. It's lame.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:09 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Look, the biggest issue with Harris is that she is a fucking cop, and ACAB.

Running against "convicted felon Donald Trump"? Bring on the bastard fucking cop
posted by chavenet at 2:12 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

The Mckinsey years should be straight up disqualifying IMO.
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. Too good to be true I guess.
posted by nicolin at 2:16 PM on July 21

I'm in. I have appreciated that the good in Biden has been good for this country, and the bad in
Biden has still been better than what the other side holds up as their best. Good for the Dems for looking to the future of the party not relying on the past, it's high time for that.
Of course the press will try to tear her apart for views, but her job is to just use her energy to rip apart everything TFG and Vance have to say and hammer them on age, abortion, his 'record' and everything else.
Let Go!
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:19 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

You aren't going to beat Trump/Vance with Harris/Buttigieg. Change will come a little more incrementally than that. Run the tamest straight white dude you can find, get the first woman into the Oval Office, and then see about Pete or whoever.

Your idea of the demographics on women, people of color, and gay people is outdated. Even since 2020, as younger people get to voting age and old racists/sexists/homophobes die out, the news is good: American citizens care less and less about those labels. Attitudes are changing. The majority of virulent racists/sexists/homophobes are voting for Trump anyway, and with Biden out that alone will offset (knock on wood) the hits Harris will get because she's a black/brown woman.
posted by zardoz at 2:27 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

whoever said "pete buttigieg", that's impossible because he is currently the health secretary of the uk, in an odd turn of events. or maybe my brain only has space for one dead-eyed careerist psychopath white guy about my own age.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:28 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

If Biden is stepping down because he's formally been diagnosed with dementia I'm OK with this...if not, SHAME on the dems who called for it.

Harris has proved that she's capable of holding her own with misogynist assholes.
posted by brujita at 2:29 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

pattern juggler: Most Democrats wanted Biden out.

Speak for your fucking self.

I live in a very blue New England state and I don't know a single person who wanted him out.
posted by wenestvedt at 2:29 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

The reason it won't be Buttigieg isn't because he's gay, it's because fairly or unfairly his public image basically boils down to "dweeb."
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:29 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

holy s*** she cast more tie votes than John Adams.

Mark Kelly would be the obvious choice for vice president but If were to pick someone I would naturally publish my short list and on that would be Slotkin from Michigan though she's running for senator herself.

if I accept the premise that Harris is a cop I'd rather have a cop in the White House than a dictator. that's why I choose slotkin because I'd rather have someone from the CIA or former astronaut helping the president or be the president then a dictator.

but I don't know somewhere in the f****** Constitution's is it written that two women cannot run the executive f****** branch. you know I get it men might get upset and but you know come on.
but I suppose having a man be vice president is the smarter choice.

God I waited a long time to say that.
posted by clavdivs at 2:29 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

A lot of talk today about going with someone other than Harris in August, but that would leave open the non-negligible possibility that something happens to Biden between August and November and you'd head into the polls with President Harris and Democratic nominee Not-Harris. Which would be awkward, at the very least.
posted by rory at 2:30 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Well-planned coups always have a ceremonial figleaf.

Their best shot at exploiting the figleaf of involvement the VP has in certifying electoral votes already came and went with Pence, and the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022 was specifically passed to make it explicitly clear that the VP's role is "solely ministerial," just on the off chance anyone was stupid enough to chase that route again, but if your particular flavor of doomerism requires you to hold open the possibility of VP electoral count shenanigans in an even more unlikely scenario than the first time around, more power to you I guess.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:30 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Yes, the root of Hillary Clinton’s problem was sexism — but it was a root that was carefully cultivated into a full tree over 24 years, to the point where the nation’s collective “ew, Hillary Clinton” response became a deep reflex. i don’t think there is a correspondent “ew, Kamala Harris” reflex.

I think Harris also benefits from people who realized after 2016 that they bought into bullshit about Clinton and regretted what came of that, especially in the aftermath of Dobbs when shit got very real for a lot of people who were checked out in 2016
posted by jason_steakums at 2:33 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

Our household is excited we can finally move forward with an energetic candidate who can spend every waking moment on the campaign trail and draw the contrast this race so badly deserves. We'll donate a token amount to the Harris campaign to get a yard sign, but we're channeling our efforts today into $$ and letter writing for the two competitive house races here in Colorado (CD8 and CD3).

None of us know the future, and the past few weeks have had me anxious and despairing with all the uncertainty, but hope is an action and this thing is winnable.
posted by deludingmyself at 2:34 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

also, for the people upthread who can't picture someone who (1) voted for biden last time because of his non-trump status, (2) would not have voted for biden this time because palestine, while also finding that decision upsetting, and (3) will vote for harris due to her non-trump status provided she takes an even minimally consistent and credible position against abetting genocide: at least one present.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:35 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

I think anybody who still remembers the attempts to generate scandal around Willie Brown, and thinks the ex-boyfriends of a female politician are relevant as "dirt" is probably already a solid Trump voter.

They're going to try. I saw an example of it from a week or two ago, talking about Brown's "extramarital affair" with Harris. (He'd been separated from his wife for well over a decade when he and Harris started dating.)
posted by rory at 2:35 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

If Biden is stepping down because he's formally been diagnosed with dementia I'm OK with this...if not, SHAME on the dems who called for it.

Not all cognitive decline is connected to a dementia diagnosis. And not all incapacity falls under a strict definition of cognitive decline. It matters very little if a doctor said Biden had vascular dementia or Alzheimer's disease. The result was that he couldn't perform to the level needed and this election is too important ti field a candidate who cannot campaign effectively.

Speak for your fucking self.

In this case I am referring to the polls that have overwhelmingly showed support for Biden stepping down. Of course not everyone wanted that. Not everyone wanted Biden in the first place. That is the nature of the system. Sometimes you eon't get who or what you want.

I would be delighted by a system that removed or greatly lessened the role of party insiders and donors in picking candidates, but that isn't the system that selected Biden, and it isn't the system that showed him the door.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:35 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

It’s gonna be fun when Harris gets to ceremonially preside over the counting of her own winning votes.
posted by notyou at 2:35 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

>I live in a very blue New England state and I don't know a single person who wanted him out.

I don't give a shit about Biden (one centrist Dem admin is basically interchangeable with any other since Kennedy) personally but Presidential politics is decided at the margin by low-information swing-state voters who make their decisions at the gut level if we're lucky, and Biden in that role was demonstrably simply. not. up. to. the. job.

By https://electoral-vote.com Biden was 52 EVs away from 270. As I said above, LFG!
posted by torokunai at 2:35 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

>It’s gonna be fun when Harris gets to ceremonially preside over the counting of her own winning votes.

yeah I was thinking how Gore was there for that in 2001, too . . .
posted by torokunai at 2:37 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

> I live in a very blue New England state and I don't know a single person who wanted him out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/us/politics/biden-poll-democrats-drop-out.html

"Nearly two-thirds of Democrats said President Biden should step aside and allow the party to select a different nominee"

You're grieving, I get it.
posted by constraint at 2:37 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

I think that Biden probably was up to the job, and I was torn on the question of whether he should bow out, but I have been knocking doors and talking to low-propensity voters, and I've been hearing for at least a year that Biden was senile and incapable of being president. I don't know exactly where they were getting that narrative, but they were definitely getting that narrative. And while I have no idea whether Harris is more likely to win than Biden, I'm glad that we can stop obsessing about the issue and move the fuck on.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:39 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

also, for the people upthread who can't picture someone who (1) voted for biden last time because of his non-trump status, (2) would not have voted for biden this time because palestine, while also finding that decision upsetting, and (3) will vote for harris due to her non-trump status provided she takes an even minimally consistent and credible position against abetting genocide: at least one present.

Make that two; I was planning on not voting for a candidate for president for the first time since I cast my first vote for Bill Clinton in 1996 if Biden was on the ballot this November, and that was 100% because of Biden's position on Gaza.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 2:42 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

I live in a very blue New England state and I don't know a single person who wanted him out.

Almost 2 in 3 Massachusetts Democrats, left-leaning voters want Biden to step aside: Poll
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:42 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

We are here now. I am sure we have differing feels about how we got here. But we’re here now. As others have said, let’s go!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:44 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

It’s pretty funny that Joe Manchin told the press earlier today that he wants the party to hold an open process to replace Biden. You’re not a Dem, fella! You don’t get a say in it.

When asked if he'd endorse Harris, he also declined, stating that "it depends on what the policies are, I want to see the platform change."

To avoid a ruler to the back of my hand from mods, I will simply say that I hope that bedbugs follow Manchin around for the rest of his life, no matter where he chooses to sleep.
posted by delfin at 2:46 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

NEW: VP Kamala Harris' candidacy is now official, per a filing to the FEC. She now has the Biden-Harris campaign funds at her disposal. [MeidasTouch | Mastodon]
posted by mazola at 2:46 PM on July 21 [51 favorites]

To avoid a ruler to the back of my hand from mods, I will simply say that I hope that bedbugs follow Manchin around for the rest of his life, no matter where he chooses to sleep.

May he always step on a floor full of Lego pieces.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:46 PM on July 21 [35 favorites]

[Nelson laugh]. Bets won. Let's go Kamala!!
posted by Artful Codger at 2:47 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Will be interesting to see what happens when the Republican machine inevitably* starts calling Harris a "DEI hire candidate"

They don't even have to, the New York Post already fucking did it. UGH.
posted by JHarris at 2:48 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

I think Biden was up to the job but the perception of that is what matters, not the reality. And I think the main argument in favor of Biden has been that yeah, he's not polling well and it seems risky, but (we hope) people will vote for a potted plant over Trump... but since that argument also applies to anyone else at the top of the Dem ticket, wellll...

I'm curious if the media is going to hammer on Trump's declining faculties just because of how many clicks it got when they did it for Joe. The danger of Trump's campaign pushing that one particular attack so hard has always been that it opens up the conversation about himself if anyone but Biden is his opponent.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:48 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

This image has been around since 2020.

Today feels like a good day for it.
posted by box at 2:50 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

The worst part of today has been the parade of failed centrist former Democrats getting hauled out of semi-retirement to be reanimated pundits on teevee. If your drinking game makes you take a shot every time there's an appearance by Heidi Heitkamp or Claire McCaskill, I am very concerned for your liver right now.
posted by gimonca at 2:52 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

I'm pretty sure it's because all the real democrats are busy.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:54 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

NYTimes reporting: The 77 Democratic National Committee delegates from Tennessee unanimously voted to endorse Kamala Harris for president during a conference call Sunday afternoon, according to William Owen, a Democratic National Committee member who participated in the call. Owen said the vote makes Tennessee the first state delegation in the country to formally back Harris for president.

Hopefully this will inspire other states to do the same - the sooner the party can project unity the better.
posted by coffeecat at 2:57 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

With Pelosi, the party core, and Obama refusing to endorse Harris outright, look for the final months to be an insane shitshow of spending and ad saturation. We could literally solve health care, housing, and hunger for what the mainstream Democratic Party is going to spend on trying to keep shit the way it is.
posted by toodleydoodley at 2:57 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

This story originally came up in 2020 but it looks like it will start to make the rounds again:

Trump previously donated $6,000 to Kamala D. Harris’s campaigns
posted by LostInUbe at 2:58 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

It doesn’t matter what they call Harris. As quoted above, her campaign needs to be “abortion, abortion, abortion, felon, abortion.” There are a bunch of angry women and angry people who love other people who can get pregnant. Pro-choice is a winning strategy. It has already won lots of times. The campaign doesn’t need to be distracted by DEI bullshit. The Republicans can throw all the shit they want. It’s not gonna stick for people who are not already Maga true believers. Abortion, felon, rapist creepy old white dude losing his shit. Abortion. That’s the strategy. Even better, that’s the fucking truth.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:58 PM on July 21 [46 favorites]

Feels like a very Manchin move to make a ton of noise about this in the media after whispers of this outcome already started so he seems relevant
posted by jason_steakums at 2:59 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I am so not excited to hear the “felon, felon, felon” as a Democratic talking point - that’s usually Republican shit - but if it beats Trump I will just sigh and be glad I live in a blue state I guess.
posted by corb at 3:01 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

With Pelosi, the party core, and Obama refusing to endorse Harris outright, look for the final months to be an insane shitshow of spending and ad saturation. We could literally solve health care, housing, and hunger for what the mainstream Democratic Party is going to spend on trying to keep shit the way it is.

Has Obama not endorsed her yet? With Biden, the Clintons, Warren, etc having done so already, I assume it's coming.
posted by Gadarene at 3:02 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Also, "refusing to" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
posted by Gadarene at 3:02 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Just realizing that Dems can now run on something like this:

"When it came to the future of America, Joe Biden did the right thing. [TFG] never would."
posted by greenland at 3:02 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

Look, when they go low, we go high, and when we go high, we lose. I say fuck that. Abortion abortion felon abortion, Trump/Epstein 2024; be fucking cruel to that weird bastard and do not hold back.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:04 PM on July 21 [54 favorites]

I think Obama may not endorse her, because he has deliberately stayed out of the spotlight since 2016, and he's only made political statements when he thought his endorsement would really matter. Otherwise, it seems clear to me that the party is closing ranks around Harris, as irritating as that may be for the accelerationist fringe.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:04 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

he's only made political statements when he thought his endorsement would really matter.

Now might qualify, though.
posted by Selena777 at 3:06 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Has Obama not endorsed her yet? With Biden, the Clintons, Warren, etc having done so already, I assume it's coming.

He's an "I don't endorse in the primaries" guy, which this technically is. Word is that he has been working behind the scenes to help spin up campaign infrastructure for her when/if Joe made the call.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 3:08 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Biden should devote his time to SCOTUS reform, getting the other presidents emeritus on board with an amendment stating the president does not have criminal immunity for official acts, and making fun of Trump for not being able to retire for fear of prosecution.
posted by the primroses were over at 3:09 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

Trump/Epstein 2024

So actually this angle plays a lot better now since it can't be replied to with those awkward Biden videos where he seems to be weird with kids on stage (not to lend them any credence, I think those are all just Joe being awkward more than anything). That's interesting...
posted by jason_steakums at 3:09 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Look, when they go low, we go high, and when we go high, we lose. I say fuck that. Abortion abortion felon abortion, Trump/Epstein 2024; be fucking cruel to that weird bastard and do not hold back.

I mean yeah that too please. We contain multitudes and so many of them are angry.
posted by greenland at 3:10 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

JUST IN: Gov. Newsom cancels his appearance at U.S. Ninth Circuit judicial conference scheduled in Sacramento tomorrow.

No reason provided by organizers of the event, waiting to hear back from his office.


...Nothin' but good times ahead.
posted by delfin at 3:11 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

It’s gonna be fun when Harris gets to ceremonially preside over the counting of her own winning votes.


It's gonna be fun when TFG and co raise holy hell about that and pretend it's illegal. I'll bet they sue, and the case winds up in front of the Supreme Court. Maybe they make up a new traditionalist reading of the Constitution against.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 3:13 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Look, when they go low, we go high, and when we go high, we lose. I say fuck that. Abortion abortion felon abortion, Trump/Epstein 2024; be fucking cruel to that weird bastard and do not hold back.

Fuck yes. If I were the Harris comms director my strategy would simply be: 1) Hammer hard on abortion protection non stop 2) lead fucking "Lock Him Up" chants at rallies
posted by windbox at 3:13 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

If Trump isn't the nominee there would be so much infighting that by November the GOP wouldn't even realise it was election day

Hey, this is a plot point straight out of the BARBIE movie.

"I'm just Don,
Everyone else calls me a con,
Is it my destiny
To leave behind a wrecked and burnt democracy...."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:19 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Harris/anybody is going to win huge. Today is a great day.
posted by Kwine at 3:19 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Harris/anybody is going to win huge IF we put in the work. It’s not gonna happen magically.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:23 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

I am so not excited to hear the “felon, felon, felon” as a Democratic talking point

May I ask why? For starters, it's true - and the GOP repeatedly says far worse.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:23 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Harris/anybody has to win huge. Too big to rig, as an orange turd once put it.

I don't know how that's going to happen... but it has to.
posted by delfin at 3:27 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I think a great side quest for Harris this week would be to do a shit ton of of oppo on Gavin and end him once and for all. Would be a great service to the nation.
posted by kensington314 at 3:29 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

but Presidential politics is decided at the margin by low-information swing-state voters who make their decisions at the gut level

Says who? It’s all about turnout.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:31 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Election Countdown, 107 days to go: Joe Biden passes the torch (James Fallows' Substack)
posted by box at 3:31 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Harris/anybody is going to win huge IF we put in the work. It’s not gonna happen magically.

Harris will need both houses of Congress to make big needed changes. We need to work up and down the ticket.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:32 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

Via Steve Herman of VOA: Republican presidential nominee Trump appears to be backing out of a September debate on ABC with Biden's replacement, posting on social media that any such face-off should be hosted by Fox News. (sorry, no stories out yet but this is what is going around on social media)

Donald may go the route that Kamala is not the legitimate candidate.
posted by LostInUbe at 3:32 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

pattern juggler: Most Democrats wanted Biden out.

Speak for your fucking self.


Now that Biden and the democratic establishment are in agreement that Harris has a better shot at winning, are we back to believing public opinion polling or not?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:35 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I am so not excited to hear the “felon, felon, felon” as a Democratic talking point

May I ask why? For starters, it's true - and the GOP repeatedly says far worse.

Same reason we don’t like ppl ragging on trump’s weight or hand size or other human stuff. Lots of people get felonies for a mistake, participating in the grey economy because that’s what’s available to them, etc. Why do those ppl gotta catch strays over trump? Furthermore, it really adds insult to injury that most returning felons will never be able to vote again. Really, it’s just a shitty way to talk about people who generally have it harder than most of us ever will.
posted by toodleydoodley at 3:36 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

but i will be extracting concessions from the liberals between now and november; in order to keep me onside, there will periodically be some amusing homework

It's all hands on deck against fascism. If you want to think you're too cool or precious or enlightened or whatever to understand that, go on ahead, but nobody's special, here.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:36 PM on July 21 [75 favorites]

Debates are largely silly and it's not clear how much they impact actual votes. That said, golden opportunity for all the surrogates to just beat the drum of Trump being too chicken shit to debate Harris.

Anyway I'm pretty excited to maybe get to vote for candidate Harris even if she wasn't who I voted for in the 2020 primary (but she was above Biden so.)
posted by R343L at 3:36 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

May I ask why? For starters, it's true - and the GOP repeatedly says far worse.

I get that it plays well to the average voter, but people on the left generally find that messaging a turn off - lots of felons in the US are good people, many more victims of a racist/classist justice system more than anything. Trump is a pile of shit for lots of reasons that I'd rather highlight than lying about paying off a porn star. And it does seem a little hypocritical that on the one hand the Democrats are pushing to do things like restore voting rights to felons, expunge the criminal records of those convicted of weed possession etc. (all good things!) and then lean into the message of "he's a felon! boooo!" I'd rather she lay into all of the corrupt actions he did - just going with the "felon" label feels lazy and cheap.

Anyway, so far 50 Democrats in the House have endorsed her already. And that's on a Sunday. I imagine by the end of the day tomorrow it could be well over the 50% mark.
posted by coffeecat at 3:36 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Donald may go the route that Kamala is not the legitimate candidate.

We should all welcome a campaign where Harris is running against Trump and Trump is running against Biden and all the County clerks in the land.
posted by kensington314 at 3:37 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Donald may go the route that Kamala is not the legitimate candidate.

In the immortal words of Neil Patrick Harris, "...It's afraid!!"
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:37 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

I just submitted a message to the White House thanking President Biden for his service. In it, I stressed that I don't believe it was ever his job to defend democracy alone. He has done his part and more. Let the "Maybe-Next-To-Best" generation pick up the fight against fascism.

(I also included a suggestion that he take up gardening and offered a few ideas for plants. Look, I'm retired. Gardening gives me something to do. I have serious opinions regarding compost.)

(Oh no! Maybe "Joe from Scranton" will want to fix up a 1970 Dodge Charger instead! Set the accelerator for FAST AND FURIOUS 11: SCRANTON JOE!)
posted by SPrintF at 3:39 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Ohio ballet news

"We do know for sure that we can't trust Ohio Republicans," Ohio Democratic Party spokeswoman Katie Seewer said

"We have had assurances from leaders, including the governor, saying that the bill would be honored," she said.(Ohio Senate Minority Leader Nickie Antonio, D-Lakewood)

Oh. Assurances? Yeah we're fine.
posted by pepcorn at 3:40 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Uhhhhhh, Trump is not a felon because he sold weed. Let's not get it twisted. He's a bad guy and it's okay to say so. He's not some disadvantaged guy who made a mistake.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:41 PM on July 21 [87 favorites]

An aspect of this I didn't anticipate when thinking about this possibility before... suddenly Kamala gets the juice of being exciting in a way she wasn't before, because this is such a novel, interesting, dramatic situation. It's interesting to think about narratively. How the implication that Joe couldn't win suddenly implies that she can win. Narrative means a lot in modern presidential elections.

Donald may go the route that Kamala is not the legitimate candidate.

I'm perplexed at how he'd even make this argument - not that I think he wouldn't try, he's an idiot. But the party picks their candidate and they haven't done that yet, so if they pick her, well...?
posted by jason_steakums at 3:41 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Right, but just saying "he's a felon" doesn't explain why he's bad - it just feels like lazy messaging.
posted by coffeecat at 3:43 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

A moment of levity (for us):
This is why you never let them know how close you are to work when you’re not at work
posted by LostInUbe at 3:44 PM on July 21 [35 favorites]

It's hard to fit all the things that are wrong with him into a soundbite, I'm afraid. I'm not even sure where to begin.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:46 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

An aspect of this I didn't anticipate when thinking about this possibility before... suddenly Kamala gets the juice of being exciting in a way she wasn't before, because this is such a novel, interesting, dramatic situation.

From your lips to God's ears--maybe she corners some of the "novelty" aspect of the media market that helped propel Trump in 2016 and Obama in 2008. The earned media might be off the charts ...
posted by kensington314 at 3:46 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Jesus, this election is like riding a roller coaster with lots of steep drops and sharp turns... on a rickety, creaky track that threatens to collapse at any moment... over a lake full of flaming garbage and big fat crocodiles... and the car we're riding in is made of balsa wood held together with chewing gum...

Last I checked, Joan Jett is not openly gay and refuses to comment on her sexuality.

From Joan Jett's Wikipedia page: In a 2018 interview with the New York Times, when asked about how an LGBT film festival did not want to show her documentary because she was not "out", Jett said: "They don't want the movie there because I don't declare? [Holding up her necklace] What the [expletive] is that? Two labryses, or axes, crossing each other, inside of two women's symbols crossing each other. It's not been off since I got it. And I wear this one every day. [She turns around, lifts her shirt and reveals a tattoo with similar female symbols on her lower back.] I don't know how much more you can declare."

She also performs at a lot of LGBT+ events. I saw her a few years back at a pride show.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:46 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Debates are largely silly and it's not clear how much they impact actual votes

Well the debate between Biden and trump certainly will affect how many people vote for Biden in 2024
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:47 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

From your lips to God's ears--maybe she corners some of the "novelty" aspect of the media market that helped propel Trump in 2016 and Obama in 2008. The earned media might be off the charts ...

Here's hoping! Between the two of them, he feels an awful lot like old news now (and hopefully one day will be nothing more than that)
posted by jason_steakums at 3:48 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

(Kamala Harris makes a guest appearance at the 2024 BET awards)
posted by box at 3:48 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Just had a quick peek at Hasan Abi's Twitch stream, currently being watched by over 80,000 people. He was caught up in mocking the reactions of Democratic officials who dared to express any personal sadness at Biden's withdrawal, deriding them as "fucking losers".
posted by senor biggles at 3:48 PM on July 21

1000 words charting the history of how this came to be the case in america; you can start where you like as long as it's before 1980, and the focus is on which political formations other than actual fascists or proto-fascists bear the most responsibility for this state of affairs.

Well electing Trump through apathy sure as shit ain't gonna make things better.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:50 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

He's a bad guy and it's okay to say so. He's not some disadvantaged guy who made a mistake.

yes, and he'd be a bad guy if he'd been acquitted, too. so you campaign on him being a fucking fascist menace, not something that it's easy for anyone not terminally attached to news media to misconstrue as technical and/or comparatively minor.
posted by busted_crayons at 3:50 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I think Harris also benefits from people who realized after 2016 that they bought into bullshit about Clinton and regretted what came of that, especially in the aftermath of Dobbs when shit got very real for a lot of people who were checked out in 2016

I was thinking about that with the “Kamala is a cop” attacks, where basically everyone I saw doing that was the kind of “leftist” who spent 2016 putting all of their effort helping get Trump elected by attacking Clinton and gaslighting about Roe. Those guys still exist but they seem to be getting a lot more pushback now that more people have realized that the stakes are far more tangible than BSing over beers.
posted by adamsc at 3:51 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

I'm going to reiterate what I said about ignoring irrelevant noise. Seriously: there's enough in the world to be mad about. You don't have to take the bait from people who are trying to rile you up over nothing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:51 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

1000 words charting the history of how this came to be the case in america; you can start where you like as long as it's before 1980, and the focus is on which political formations other than actual fascists or proto-fascists bear the most responsibility for this state of affairs.

Easy, it started in 1865 when the Confederacy lost. Multiracial democracy had about a decade, and then it was decided that comity among white people was more important, Reconstruction ended with the "corrupt bargain" that saw Rutherford B. Hayes installed as president, then we had 70+ years of Jim Crow and de jure white supremacy, ended by first Brown v Board, then the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. The Republican Party decided to suck up to white racists ("Southern Strategy") and ended up being fully captured by white nationalism and Christian fundamentalism --which is how they got first Reagan, who opened his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, site of the lynching of voting-rights workers in 1964, with a speech on "states' rights", and then eventually Trump, heir to the overtly racial politics of Pat Buchanan. "Comity among white people" continued to be a thing and has been a historic driver of so-called "bipartisanship" for Democrats and part of their adoption of things like "welfare reform" and the crime bill championed by Joe Biden; establishment Democrats have spent decades chasing after a whiter Democratic electorate than the one they've got.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 3:51 PM on July 21 [59 favorites]

Yeah. I was apparently a sucker when I believed Biden/his camp when they sold sold us (apparently "me") on the "he's a transitional/bridge candidate". The betrayal I felt when he said he was running again. He's the same as they all are. Once in power, won't give it up.

I know it was only pressure that made him give it up. So he wins no points with me. Kamala? She's sullied by association, but its a better shot than with Biden.
posted by Saucywench at 3:51 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Harris was my second favorite after Warren in 2020 and I'm all in.

Just going to say here and now that if the rich white male donor class makes a move to some bullshit like "why not Manchin (or some other further right white dude)" at the convention, I'll still vote blue, but I'm going to work my ass off even harder to get donors out of these decisions. These rich white dudes are almost universally idiots.

All in on Harris. Make this happen everyone.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:52 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Metafilter: Sullied by Association
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:53 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

I was feeling alright about this news, not super happy, mind, but definitely glad to have the sniping and leaks and bullshit over and done with.

Then, when Georgia arrived home the first thing she said to me was "how fucked are we?" That was dispiriting, to say the least. Her next question was "who is going to replace Biden?" I told her Harris seemed to be the most likely choice, recounting the list of endorsements she has already gotten and she sighed and said "completely fucked, then." Apparently, she is convinced that there is zero chance a woman of color can win in the US. She was not having my reassurance, said a few choice words about people who aren't willing to put aside their personal shit to keep Trump out of office, and ended with "at least Trump only gets four more years." She was not amused by my response that was only true if he was to die between now and 2028.

So far that's all I have to go on as far as the reaction of people who only vaguely follow politics goes. Not encouraging in the least.
posted by wierdo at 3:54 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Well electing Trump through apathy sure as shit ain't gonna make things better.

look, i literally just switched from intending not to vote for the guy who carried major water for the genocidal regime that disappeared my friend's family members in the night a few months back, to saying in public that i do intend to vote for the person who fortunately replaced him. the worry here is that people with actual power don't learn from decades of fucking mistakes. i assure you i'm not apathetic.
posted by busted_crayons at 3:55 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

I know it was only pressure that made him give it up.

To be honest, I'm wondering how long ago he decided to do this. I have a feeling it was not long after the ABC interview. If he had tipped his hand before the GOP convention, things might have played out differently and not as well.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:56 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Just had a quick peek at Hasan Abi's Twitch stream, currently being watched by over 80,000 people. He was caught up in mocking the reactions of Democratic officials who dared to express any personal sadness at Biden's withdrawal, deriding them as "fucking losers".

Wait I thought being a nepo baby with a boatload of money calling people losers was Trump's shtick
posted by jason_steakums at 3:56 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

saw on twitter:

This will be the first Presidential election since 1976 to not have a Biden, Bush, or Clinton on the ticket.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:58 PM on July 21 [73 favorites]

kittens for breakfast: you don’t announce you’re dropping out of the presidential race on a whim. I’m sure the delay had as much to do with sorting out everything to make sure Kamala was going to get the support to be the nominee as anything else.
posted by SansPoint at 3:59 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

A bit a levity: Semafor reporting "Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said that he’d be open to seeking the Democratic nomination if “party elders” urged him to."
posted by coffeecat at 3:59 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

you don’t announce you’re dropping out of the presidential race on a whim. I’m sure the delay had as much to do with sorting out everything to make sure Kamala was going to get the support to be the nominee.

I think it's that, and giving himself one last chance to go all in and see if he can turn it around, and yeah definitely the GOP convention timing, letting them waste a lot of shots on him there
posted by jason_steakums at 4:01 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

Whaaaaat the fuck is this intro on the ABC special report currently airing? Fuck these fucking fascist ABC motherfuckers.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:01 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

I’m sure the delay had as much to do with sorting out everything to make sure Kamala was going to get the support to be the nominee as anything else.

Well, the signs indicate that one thing he did not bother to do was tell Nancy Pelosi, which is funny and maybe a bit telling.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:02 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

Trump is not a felon because he sold weed. Let's not get it twisted. He's a bad guy and it's okay to say so. He's not some disadvantaged guy who made a mistake.

The issue is that suggesting it’s morally bad to be a felon implies that you believe the “justice system” is good, correct, and a fair arbiter of morality. This is something that a lot of us don’t believe. I’m a public defender: I don’t believe people convicted of felonies are inherently worse than people not convicted of felonies, and I think that every time we speak as if they are, we harm the re-integration of people who have been convicted of felonies, who suffer great difficulties after they have served their sentences.

Felony convictions in this country are not just; most people don’t have a trial and have to take a plea because of their poverty. And just like the problems in making fun of Trump for his weight, etc, every time you say he shouldn’t be president because he’s a felon, you are also telling the guy who *did* do two years for weed, or lying to a cop, or failing to rat out a buddy, that he doesn’t deserve to be a part of the civic body either. And that’s not what I want the Democrats to be doing.
posted by corb at 4:02 PM on July 21 [54 favorites]

A bit a levity: Semafor reporting "Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said that he’d be open to seeking the Democratic nomination if “party elders” urged him to."

Presumably the brain worms would be his running mate?
posted by jason_steakums at 4:02 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

To add, they played like the kind of music they play in a movie trailer when they're showing a disaster unfolding.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:03 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Kamala should just run this on TV as a 30 second spot to confuse and/or terrify the boomers For those twitter averse it's a pro-Kamala/anti-Donald video set to Not Like Us.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:05 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Govs. Shapiro (PA), Polis (CO) among the Harris endorsers today, likely ruling out a convention challenge.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 4:05 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

per cbs news: trump announced he is now backing out of a september 10 presidential debate he originally agreed to

bawk bawk bawk bawwwwwwk
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:12 PM on July 21 [93 favorites]

And of course it is up and running, Wikipedia's Kamala Harris 2024 presidential campaign.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:12 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I haven’t been following this, and I haven’t had time to read anything else in this thread, but I really think the obvious play was to make Kamala the most powerful vice president in history, and then focus on running, since Trump is also running with the benefit of not having to also perform a high intensity day job. So sad that he dropped out.

I do think Kamala will be an awesome president, so I might have to calm my nerves by really doing everything I can to help the down ballot candidates and buoy her campaign.
posted by puffinaria at 4:15 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

MisantropicPainforest: yes this one debate had impact (though on media narrative and candidate choices, not much in polling that wasn't already there or actual votes). The point being is that in my lifetime presidential debates don't tend to change voter decisions so much as what the media and campaigns talk about which has a much more nebulous effect. Maybe in the absence of the debate those changes won't happen, etc. But the vast majority of folks are already decided before presidential debates happen and the debate doesn't change voter plans (consider that pretty much anyone disappointed with Biden's performance but was planning to vote for him .. would if polled still say they'd be voting for him or whoever the Dem nominee is.)
posted by R343L at 4:16 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

"Let's Win This" (if that ends up being the actual slogan as Wikipedia suggests) is such a great slogan for the situation she finds herself in. Coming off the bench, ready to carry the team, not taking any shit from anyone who's too tired or too scared to take the winning shot. LFG.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:17 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Jarrett Renshaw of Reuters:

A source close to Sen Joe Manchin, independent of WV, say he's considering re-registering as a Democrat and throwing his hat into the ring. Hard to see how this goes anywhere
posted by LostInUbe at 4:19 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

Highlighting that Trump has committed crimes (which is good) can absolutely be done without using the word "felon" (which is bad), you know that, right, folks? Try, for example, "Convicted fraudster". "Fraudster" is a great word! It highlights the actual NATURE of his badness, and nobody likes fraud, even those of us who can't stand the way people shit on "felons" as a class!
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:20 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

Re 'Let's Win This': somebody changed their Facebook background today.
posted by box at 4:21 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

I am so not excited to hear the “felon, felon, felon” as a Democratic talking point

Yeah. I've seen pro-Trump t-shirts which are versions of "I'm voting for the felon instead of the jackass."
posted by doctornemo at 4:24 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

And of course it is up and running, Wikipedia's Kamala Harris 2024 presidential campaign.

Adding "better dancer" to the list of many ways she's better than IMPOTUS.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:24 PM on July 21

Prosecutor vs felon, I guess we’ll see who’s really tough on crime now.
posted by mazola at 4:25 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Felony convictions in this country are not just; most people don’t have a trial and have to take a plea because of their poverty.

Yes, but that is actually the opposite of what happened to Donald Trump, a rich nepobaby who was found guilty of a crime he totally committed. It was a...I don't know...a carriage of justice. It's what's supposed to happen, but never really happens. It's fine!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:26 PM on July 21 [24 favorites]

Joe Manchin is 76.

Pretty sure the millionaires donors can find someone less decrepit with awful views and no appeal, or even run one of their own, like Howard Schultz.
posted by Artw at 4:28 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

Manchin can fuck allllllll the way off.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 4:30 PM on July 21 [54 favorites]

it's a pro-Kamala/anti-Donald video set to Not Like Us.

It's a joke but also kinda not the way things have been going... But if we could get Kendrick to drop an anti-Trump diss track that could lock this shit up no problem.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:31 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

75 House Dems have now endorsed Harris, along with NC Governor Roy Cooper.
posted by coffeecat at 4:34 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Joe Manchin just announced he's considering re-becoming a democrat and putting his hat in the ring.
posted by sammyo at 4:35 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Harris / Ossoff 2024

He’s young, white and straight. Young family, the ticket needs some young kids. He won a tough and very publicized Senate race, he’s gotten some good press recently with the Post Office hearings, he’d bring Georgia with him.

Thoughts?
posted by pearlybob at 4:36 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

-- Almost 2 in 3 Massachusetts Democrats, left-leaning voters want Biden to step aside: Poll

"The Suffolk University statewide survey of 500 residents was conducted July 16-18, and is based on live interviews of registered voters in Massachusetts who indicated they were very or somewhat likely to vote this November."

This survey of registered voters polled 141 Democrats, 54 Republicans, 267 Independents

and a portion of the 141 Democrats, the "left-leaning" "Democrats" creates the "almost 2 in 3" Boston Globe headline.

[Also Suffolk U: "Despite low confidence in Biden as the nominee, 80% of Democrats would still vote for him against Donald Trump."]

I've got no belief in polls to return to, I'm afraid.

Whenever a headline cites some poll's conclusion, click through to the poll itself.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:37 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

I'd say we need Ossoff to stay put in the Senate.
posted by coffeecat at 4:37 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

Joe Manchin just announced he's considering re-becoming a democrat and putting his hat in the ring.

That's funny, because I was just thinking about how much I'd like to see him put his dick in a car door.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:37 PM on July 21 [101 favorites]

kittens for breakfast: a cybertruck door
posted by SansPoint at 4:39 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Harris is already getting her first delegate pledges.


This is all moving so fast, it had to be in the works for some time. Which is encouraging, that they timed it well and got their ducks in a row before Biden’s announcement. Biden maybe has known since even before the Holt interview last week.
posted by darkstar at 4:42 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

No Dem Senators or Reps from states with Republican Governors, no Dem Governors of swing states who could win re-election, and, ideally, someone who would be a good President, just in case.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:42 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

All the Russian fuckers need to do is print one state (or maybe one county is enough) of ballots that juuuuuust don't happen to have the same Dem candidate as every other.

Relax; they’ve got to catch Moose and Squirrel first. Dastardly plan come second.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 4:43 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

ee how easy it was to just say what you mean

Hey, I'm not doing this with you guys after this. It's a buzz kill. This whole circular firing squad thing is very last season, we're trying to actually win this time.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:43 PM on July 21 [52 favorites]

Yeah, I didn’t consider the Senate thing. Carry on…
posted by pearlybob at 4:43 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

If this had been in the works for some time the announcement would not have come on a Sunday.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:44 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Eh, new product releases don’t always drop when you want them to.
posted by darkstar at 4:46 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

This whole circular firing squad thing is very last season…

This is the leftist way. It has been so for decades. Is it dumb, sure, but getting idealist to recognize that voting is a tactical process has always been difficult.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:46 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

"... but getting idealist to recognize that voting is a tactical process has always been difficult."

Because it's *wrong*.

Necessary, but wrong. People struggle with that.
posted by aleph at 4:48 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Front page NYT: After a Shaky Start, Harris Is Suddenly on Brink of Leading Democratic Ticket

/Another ringing show of confidence for Harris from the NYT.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:49 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

This is the leftist way. It has

Please see above for NOPE.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:49 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

Don't talk to me about laws and rules. I don't want to hear it. This isn't a game of checkers. They have us exactly where they wanted us. "We" fell for it.

Like what political media are you guzzling to even get to this place. Who out there is centristdempilling people. The krassensteins?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:49 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Eh, new product releases don’t always drop when you want them to.

A Monday Prime-time announcement from the Oval Office would be a have had more impact and could have provided a more potent wielding of influence than a Xeet. This has the feel of a, "Lets just do this already," snit.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 4:50 PM on July 21

All 50 state Democratic Party chairs endorse Harris. Have the delegations vote as scheduled for the virtual role call. Let's get this party started.
posted by the primroses were over at 4:50 PM on July 21 [45 favorites]

Fuck I just hope they have a plan and this wasn't a collective knee-jerk reaction to his shitty debate performance. We can't afford to lose this one.
posted by lock robster at 4:50 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Headline on front page of the NYT Opinion: Can Kamala Harris Step Up? Asking for a Friend.

Yet another ringing show of confidence for Harris.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:51 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

If this had been in the works for some time the announcement would not have come on a Sunday.

Why? He has the entire news cycle to himself. It’s actually perfect. One full day of news and fundraising and endorsements before the screaming starts in earnest.
posted by anastasiav at 4:51 PM on July 21 [30 favorites]

This has the feel of a, "Lets just do this already," snit.

You may underestimate the appetite for LET'S JUST DO THIS ALREADY right now.

I'd buy a yard sign with that.
posted by deludingmyself at 4:52 PM on July 21 [35 favorites]

Small-dollar donors raise over $27.5 million on ActBlue in the first 5 hours of Vice President Kamala Harris' presidential campaign. Grassroots supporters are energized and excited to support her as the Democratic nominee.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:52 PM on July 21 [51 favorites]

A Monday Prime-time announcement from the Oval Office would be a have had more impact and could have provided a more potent wielding of influence than a Xeet. This has the feel of a, "Lets just do this already," snit.

To you and I, yes. To the opposition, it's a molotov cocktail in the middle of brunch. I think the timing was very deliberate, and smart.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:53 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

I wish Hillary would step up. She received more votes than the other guy once already, and she’s uniquely qualified for exactly this type of campaign. I can’t be the only one who would feel absolutely reenergized by her being the nominee, and she has a lot of lessons she’s learned from her previous run. I mean, if Trump can lose and find the gumption to run again, I believe she could as well.
posted by JLovebomb at 4:53 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

No.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:54 PM on July 21 [112 favorites]

To quote that random Democratic operative, "F**k it, I'm coconut pilled."
posted by catcafe at 4:55 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

I think Hillary Clinton is a remarkable person.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:55 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

I take one day off from the internet and go outside and look what happened. Going forward, could really use some precedented times.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:55 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Hey, I'm not doing this with you guys after this. It's a buzz kill. This whole circular firing squad thing is very last season, we're trying to actually win this time.

It’s a buzz kill to choose your words and not talk disrespectfully about people who’ve done nothing to earn your disrespect? Ok, gotcha. That’s why the Democratic Party is in the shit shape it’s in and doesn’t understand why people with obvious “democrat” needs and demographics are looking elsewhere for a candidate or a party that might consider them human. Trying to win? For real?
posted by toodleydoodley at 4:56 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Trump's response was appropriately unhinged, but the rest of the party seems to have coalesced around "if he's not running why isn't he resigning?" If that's the best they've got, I'm feeling pretty good.
posted by wierdo at 4:56 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Hillary Clinton is a very remarkable person, but she has no business being president.
posted by SansPoint at 4:56 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

This is all moving so fast, it had to be in the works for some time. Which is encouraging, that they timed it well and got their ducks in a row before Biden’s announcement. Biden maybe has known since even before the Holt interview last week.

Biden may have been trying to figure out how to outmaneuver the donors in his own party. Certainly, it feels planned in the sense that it was dropped unexpectedly on a slow Sunday news day & Kamala's candidacy feels like a fait accompli at this point.
posted by jonp72 at 4:58 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Hillary Clinton would've made a much better president that what we got and she won the popular vote.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:58 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

> I hope that one of the first things that Harris does is hire Hillary Clinton as an advisor on how to handle the orange goblin.

If I may suggest something infinitely more satisfying and steal from the Happy Gilmore playbook: Everywhere that TFG goes, a hologram of Clinton pops up nearby to shout "You suck, YA JACKASS!" to break his concentration.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:58 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

No more Clintons, no more Bushes, no more Obamas, no more Trumps, no more Bidens. Let's move on, America.
posted by Roommate at 4:58 PM on July 21 [78 favorites]

If this had been in the works for some time the announcement would not have come on a Sunday.

Earlier this afternoon I was on a bike ride with my family. While waiting a stop light an older guy biked up next to me and stopped and asked me "Did you hear the news?" to which I replied "That Joe Biden dropped out of the race? No." 'cause I'm witty like that :-P. He then said something about understanding that 81 was too old because he was also 81, and I said "I'm looking forward to voting for Harris!". Then the light changed and he said "Take care!" and that was the end of that conversation.

So I think the word has gotten out.
posted by Reverend John at 5:00 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

I think it's time to leave the Clinton era. Also Biden didn't promise us a bridge back to the baby boom generation.
posted by kensington314 at 5:01 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Rep Stacey Plaskett (@StaceyPlaskett): Y’all Dems who cried “step down” better keep THAT👏🏾SAME👏🏾ENERGY👏🏾 you used to run our President Biden out this race to elect @KamalaHarris
posted by tonycpsu at 5:01 PM on July 21 [41 favorites]

"... but getting idealist to recognize that voting is a tactical process has always been difficult."

I was ten years old in 1980, and was rooting for John Anderson. But when our fifth grade class held its mock election in November, (1) I knew Anderson couldn't win, and (2) I knew which of the other two I *really* didn't want in the Oval Office, so (3) voted for the party candidate who had a chance of keeping him out of office.

I figured that out for myself at ten.
It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
posted by cheshyre at 5:02 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

Kat Abu on youtube (posted on 7/18): Right-Wing Media Has A Kamala Harris Problem (She's Not Hillary Clinton)

They're (the right wing) currently throwing stuff at the wall online to see what sticks:
That it's coup (as opposed to when some of them were trying to "compassionately" urge Biden to step down)
Birtherism 2: Electric Boogaloo (her parents were not US citizens at the time of her birth - she was born in California)
A digitally altered photo showing her with Jeffrey Epstein (it's actually a photo of her and her husband)

Oh and Trump thinks his campaign should be reimbursed because they spent too much money on his tri...er.. they spent a lot of money campaigning against Biden and now they have to make new shirts or something.
posted by LostInUbe at 5:03 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Hillary Clinton is a very remarkable person, but she has no business being president

Per a mutual friend, she is not running for anything again.
posted by jgirl at 5:04 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

btw, can someone explain where the coconut memes are coming from?
posted by cheshyre at 5:04 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Harris / Ossoff 2024

no on Ossoff after he voted to tank a judical nominee who sent a transgender inmate to a women's prison, thanks.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 5:06 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Because it's *wrong*.

Necessary, but wrong. People struggle with that.

I feel that this is confusing hard with wrong. The price of democracy is compromise. One position does not get to dictate the whole process unless their opposition opts out. You may not like your choices, but you still get to work on moving towards goals, if only incrementally. The fight for a better world is never won, but if you opt out then it will get worse. And by refusing to choose the better of poor options you are functionally just aiding the worst of what is on offer. Please recognize that the tactical choices need to be part of a strategy, but accept that some of those tactical choices are going to be tough. I live in a swing district and cannot stand my Rep, but I vote for them, because a centrist Dem is a hell-of-a-lot better than any of the MAGA nuts that have run against them. There is no chance of getting a truly Progressive candidate elected in my Congressional without first moving a bunch of rural voters out of the Red-media sphere. So I hold my nose and give the multi-millionaire New Dem centrist my vote. A vote is not a moral statement if it does not affect policies.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 5:06 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

Kamala Harris: The Future Is Now

Every campaign has a rationale, a raison d'être, that can be condensed into an elevator-pitch. The rationale is a combination of an idea, a vision, and a person. It has to be timed correctly. The messenger for it must make sense. This is all infinitely harder than it sounds.

Successful campaigns have deceptively simple rationales:

• Reagan 1984: It’s morning in America.
• Clinton 1992: Change versus more of the same.
• Obama 2008: Hope.
• Trump 2016: I will hurt the people you hate.

...
The only Democrat who has a compelling rationale—right now—is Kamala Harris.

What is it?

Kamala Harris: The future is now.

The Harris campaign should be insurgent, not incumbent. She should run against everything from the recent past: Against the fractions, broken promises, and lingering hatreds of the Obama years. Against the revanchism of the Trump years. And against the weariness of the Biden years.

Her rationale is that she is the candidate to turn the page on all of it. If you are sick and tired of the last decade of politics, Harris is the candidate to wipe the slate and begin anew.

posted by kirkaracha at 5:07 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

btw, can someone explain where the coconut memes are coming from?

It's referencing something she said at a White House event: "You think you just fell out of a coconut tree? You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you."
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:08 PM on July 21 [28 favorites]

I prosecuted sex predators. Trump is one.

Yeah, I'm in. Naysayers can enjoy the Trump dictatorship they want the rest of us to get murdered in. I'm with the choice that doesn't get me and those I care about disappeared and murdered in a Project 2025 concentration camp. Harris all the way. If we go down, at least it will be with a fight.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:09 PM on July 21 [53 favorites]

Hillary Clinton has already endorsed Harris. So I doubt that she had any intention of getting in on the race.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 5:09 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

btw, can someone explain where the coconut memes are coming from?

The coconut tree, obvs.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 5:11 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

Here’s the explainer on the coconut memes: “My mother used to — she would give us a hard time sometimes, and she would say to us, ‘I don’t know what’s wrong with you young people. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?’

You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you.”
Now, the takeaway is clear enough, something that’s been said for centuries: No person is an island.
posted by toastyk at 5:12 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

From Glamour:
What’s the Deal With Kamala Harris and the Coconut Tree?

As all this discourse started, Harris’s stan army (yes, she has one), the KHive, began firing up their online support for their queen. Outside of the KHive, though, Harris has created a somewhat odd online reputation as being a little kooky. Her dances, her uproarious laugh, and her occasionally offbeat anecdotes in interviews have made her a favorite of memes poking fun at her—either with warmth or with a bit of mockery—and have become a kind of quasi-fandom of their own.

When it became a possibility that Harris may actually run for president, both of these groups kind of went nuts posting about her. The main meme that emerged came from an anecdote about her mother that Harris shared in a 2023 speech. In it, she conveyed the importance of thinking of yourself as part of a community rather than “in a silo.”

“My mother used to—she would give us a hard time sometimes, and she would say to us, ‘I don’t know what’s wrong with you young people. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?’” she said, laughing. “You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you.”

People think the anecdote was funny and somewhat odd. It makes sense in context, but when you just say, “You think you just fell out of a coconut tree,” it’s like…what? That makes no sense. It’s silly!

As often happens online, this sentiment (coconut tree = silly) has exploded and taken on a life of its own following the renewed interest in Harris. She is now the coconut tree candidate, and people are jumping aboard to support the coconut train.
posted by LostInUbe at 5:13 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

w/r/t the veepstakes:

Evidently North Carolina is a state where the lieutenant governor takes full control of the government (appointments, signing legislation, etc) whenever the governor is out of the state, and this is a problem because Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson is an openly violent (“some people need killing”) conservative extremist, so Gov. Roy Cooper can’t travel outside NC — for example, to campaign as vice president — without putting the state at risk.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 5:14 PM on July 21 [30 favorites]

Anil Dash posted this YouTube explainer about the coconut tree thing. It's a little snipped of a speech by Harris which the RNC tried to use to smear her and which has become a TikTok thing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:14 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

the biggest issue with Harris is that she is a fucking cop, and ACAB. But that's not something the Republicans can use against her easily

oh, but they certainly can. they’re courting minority votes this election, you think they won’t hammer on her for being a prosecutor and helping put men of color behind bars? they have no shame and no sense of hypocrisy, of COURSE they’ll lean into the ACAB of it all
posted by a flock of goslings at 5:15 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

> DNC says it will be orderly and transparent: https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/07/21/election-2024-biden-trump-campaign-updates/#link-7DHQ7P37QBFRNEXVXIGIFGELX4

Hey you! Famous Narrator Voice Guy Ron Howard! Don't you dare step into that sound booth!
posted by tonycpsu at 5:15 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

"Let's do this" was also the revised campaign slogan of Jacinda Adern in New Zealand, who took the reins when the previous, low/abysmally-polling leader of the opposition stepped down less than two months before an election. We have Mixed Member Proportional as our electoral system, but she was still able to form a coalition and become PM. Hope some of that associated karma comes across for y'all.
posted by Sparx at 5:15 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Trump's response was appropriately unhinged, but the rest of the party seems to have coalesced around "if he's not running why isn't he resigning?"

I really really hope a lot of energy is wasted continuing to campaign against Biden
posted by jason_steakums at 5:16 PM on July 21 [46 favorites]

>>I prosecuted sex predators. Trump is one.

Just to avoid confusion, this is from 2019, i.e. from the 2020 primaries, but the same message right now would resonate very well.
posted by donttouchmymustache at 5:17 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

I just discovered that "Let's Go Brandon" can be rearranged to form "Orangest Blond" so all those bumper stickers won't be totally wasted
posted by credulous at 5:19 PM on July 21 [18 favorites]

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be stepping down from the Presidency. (How can you be up to the rigors of the Presidency if you're not up to the rigors of campaigning?) I just hope that this doesn't turn Kamala Harris into the Hubert Humphrey of the 21st century.

If Biden were to resign the presidency and allow Harris to ascend to the office now, there would be zero chance, none, nada, of the GOP-held house confirming a new VP for her. Absent a VP, if something happens to Harris (which we saw last Saturday, is far from impossible) then, according to the Constitutional order of succession, the GOP Speaker of the House becomes President.

I'll take a diminished Biden keeping the Oval Office warm for a few months over President Mike Johnson, tyvm.
posted by dry white toast at 5:20 PM on July 21 [39 favorites]

I'd put money on Trump continuing to drop "Biden" into all of his rants since he doesn't brain too good and it will take him a while to reprogram his autopilot verbal nonsense for rallies
posted by jason_steakums at 5:21 PM on July 21 [44 favorites]

AOC on twitter:
Kamala Harris will be the next President of the United States. I pledge my full support to ensure her victory in November.

Now more than ever, it is crucial that our party and country swiftly unite to defeat Donald Trump and the threat to American democracy.

Let’s get to work.

People are trying to gotcha her because she had earlier opposed the movement to oust Biden, calling it a coup when her main reason for speaking out was that she was worried the party would try to leapfrog Harris.
posted by LostInUbe at 5:24 PM on July 21 [76 favorites]

I just discovered that "Let's Go Brandon" can be rearranged to form "Orangest Blond" so all those bumper stickers won't be totally wasted

Also "Strange Old Nob".
posted by pattern juggler at 5:24 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

oh, but they certainly can. they’re courting minority votes this election, you think they won’t hammer on her for being a prosecutor and helping put men of color behind bars?

I mean, they can try, but it's not going to be any more effective than when they try to convince people that the Democrats are secretly doing a genocide against minorities because they're pro-choice and sometimes minorities have abortions, checkmate libs.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:27 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Now that Biden and the democratic establishment are in agreement that Harris has a better shot at winning, are we back to believing public opinion polling or not?

As always, it should depend on the poll in question, the way polling was conducted, the number of participants, whether the participants were paid, whether the poll was opt-in, what method of conducting the survey was used, the timing of the poll, and whether the pool was a good representation of the population it was purported to represent.

Oh wait, your question wasn't serious, was it? I'll leave my answer here because people should look into polls before they take them as gospel anyway.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:28 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

JUST IN: Gov. Newsom cancels his appearance at U.S. Ninth Circuit judicial conference scheduled in Sacramento tomorrow.

Maybe to stump for Harris? Newsom just endorsed her:

Tough. Fearless. Tenacious.

With our democracy at stake and our future on the line, no one is better to prosecute the case against Donald Trump's dark vision and guide our country in a healthier direction than America’s Vice President, @KamalaHarris.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:31 PM on July 21 [36 favorites]

Anil Dash posted this YouTube explainer about the coconut tree thing. It's a little snipped of a speech by Harris which the RNC tried to use to smear her and which has become a TikTok thing.

I don't see where this comes from Anil Dash, what am I missing?
posted by kensington314 at 5:36 PM on July 21

I've been playing the democratic Dream Team game all day, and I had an admittedly crazy idea:

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney


Really be a unity ticket. Give cover to republicans that are looking for a reason not to support TFG. Double-down on the whole rule-of-law thing. Coming together from across the aisle to save democracy.

I don't like most of what Cheney stands for, but she stood up when it was hard and did the right thing.

I think it could be powerful, fully acknowledging ymmv.
posted by chromecow at 5:37 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

^^ No.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:38 PM on July 21 [83 favorites]

My fellow Warren ppl might appreciate this, but thinking about those pinky promises, and thinking that now we don't have to deal with the "is a woman electable though?" concern-trolling from the primaries, and that now we have a chance to smash the fuck out of a several glass ceilings all at once, I think I may have entered into a new optimism I haven't felt in quite a while.

I know getting those less-informed voters on board is always a challenge and a frustration, but you don't even need to know a single thing to instantly see that this election is old vs new. Same vs different.

Pretty excited, tbh.
posted by donttouchmymustache at 5:38 PM on July 21 [24 favorites]

Fair.
posted by chromecow at 5:39 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Would rather not have a reactionary conservative on the Dem ticket but glad to know about Sorkin's sock puppet here.
posted by kensington314 at 5:41 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

I think you misunderstand the "fruits and nuts" negative reputation California has in other states. This Californian says having two Californians on the ticket would be a mistake.

Yes, but have you considered how much Newson looks and acts like a Wall Street movie villain? That's surely gotta bring in some East Coast creds!
posted by pwnguin at 5:42 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Look, I brought up the explanation re: "felon" to answer a question another user had about why some people might not like that messaging. There was no need to start a fight over it.

Anyway, Harris now has 125 endorsements from House Dems. 85 are yet to comment, and 2 have voiced favor for an open convention. Open convention is looking very unlikely, thankfully.

Hilariously, Sorkin has also endorsed Harris.

Clyburn, on CNN, reportedly "says he likes Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Roy Cooper." So, looks like it's going to be one of those white guys. My vote's for Beshear - he couldn't get re-elected anyway.
posted by coffeecat at 5:43 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

I don't like it, but I also don't hate it in this one moment where the message really ought to be about doing whatever is necessary to keep an insurrectionist out of the Oval Office. I would be very displeased to end up with a 50/50 Senate in such a scenario, however.

But then I'm just a weirdo who actually wants to get past this place where half the country would rather see the end of the United States than give an inch to their political opponents.
posted by wierdo at 5:44 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Fuck/No 2024.

Why is it every single time someone proposes a "unity" ticket, it means putting a Republican on a Democratic ticket?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:45 PM on July 21 [94 favorites]

And we're off and running.

Will Steakin, ABC News:
Major Biden donor John Morgan tells @ABC News he won't fundraise for Harris if she's the nominee

"If Trump World could pick anybody to run against, I think they pick her."
posted by delfin at 5:45 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Biden's exit makes Trump the oldest nominee in U.S. history

Trump is not going to be happy about that.
posted by mmoncur at 5:45 PM on July 21 [53 favorites]

Is there even a constituency for Liz Fucking Cheney in the US? Does it consist of Gritty's people in the all important swing state? Baffled by this instinct.
posted by kensington314 at 5:46 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Why is it every single time someone proposes a "unity" ticket, it means putting a Republican on a Democratic ticket?

Because giving any current Republican any real power is national suicide.
posted by wierdo at 5:46 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

People stay wondering why the left wing won't pledge total obedience to the Democrats when every four years Democrats cannot stop talking about how what we should really do is run a Republican

Not even a conservative-leaning Democrat -- we should draft an actual Republican
posted by penduluum at 5:47 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

Looks like Gavin Newsom is not going to contest the nomination.

Tough. Fearless. Tenacious.

With our democracy at stake and our future on the line, no one is better to prosecute the case against Donald Trump's dark vision and guide our country in a healthier direction than America’s Vice President, @KamalaHarris

That's one clusterfuck avoided.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:47 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

I respect the work Liz Cheney did on the January 6 committee, and appreciate her courage and sacrifice, but she voted with Trump 93 percent of the time.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:47 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

A note of observation: I live somewhere that's a very progressive pocket and enclave, most of my friends are Democrat and progressive and I have definitely been seeing a lot of pushback about Biden being the presumed nomination for well over the last year for a number of reasons including the conflict and genocide in Gaza Strip and other reasons like not liking his age and apparent faculties.

Like I definitely haven't seen very many (or any, really) Presidential campaign signs in yards in my part of the orld and they're usually out in force by this point this early to an election. It's too early to see if that changes for Harris, but I will make a note of it if I do.

This includes a whole lot of people I know that are normally very rational, feminist and LGBTQIA/BIPOC people that know the danger of splitting the vote pushing for... ugh, RFK Jr and his brain worms.

I'm mainly bringing this up because there's a lot of people in these threads that seem to think that this dislike of Biden from within the registered Democrats and progressives isn't real or it's made up foreign influence, but it's definitely real.

If you haven't heard or seen any progressive or Democrat-aligned friends or peers talking about this, I want to suggest as gently as possible that you might be living in a bubble or not paying attention, and the age of yourself and your peers may be a huge factor here, because younger or more marginalized progressives definitely were not excited about Biden again. Most of my cohort and younger folks that I know have been grousing about Biden being the presumed nominee for well over a year, now, for many different reasons including age and apparent presence and countenance, not to mention other factors.

Is it risky to change presumed nominations this late in the game? Yeah, sure, but so is running Biden.

Me? I'm all in on Harris. Let's do this.
posted by loquacious at 5:48 PM on July 21 [52 favorites]

Biden is one of the most thinly veiled, lying through his teeth, poorly-programmed ratchets against anything good happening in this country on a national level I've ever seen. Making up increasingly ridiculous excuses for why he can't move to actually make anything good happen while doing backflips and writing EEs like candy for everything from giving cops more tanks to giving Israel more orphan-seeking missiles. Truly the best bought and sold Good Cop to Trump's Bad Cop you could reasonably ask for.

He clearly was never prepared for the level of scrutiny the modern age allows, and his play-acted helplessness when confronted with people wanting him to actually do something good simply doesn't work when you can google his voting history and see all the shit he's bending over backwards to actually do in the background.

4 more years of Biden or Trump would be a negative path for the country, 100%.

It'll be pretty hard for Kamala to be worse than him. It'd be hard for her to be both as infuriatingly clear in her intention to let the average American slowly steadily suffer, and good at bringing the energy down at just the right pace to keep the outrage and theatrical display intact, as Biden was.

Maybe she'll accidentally help, or concretely promise to help, working class people and break the whole narrative of "Everything gets worse forever and that's all we can hope for and it's all your fault for not voting for us harder" the DNC has been projecting for so long.

Maybe she'll be so monumentally bad at this that 2020-style protests will pop up and people will snap out of it a little and look beyond the arrowslit-thin Overton window we're being led to peek through again.

Who knows. I'd rather find out than watch Biden's shambling corpse stuffed full of lobbyist money for a few more months. Yay! Might not be hope, but it's at least curiosity.

May Biden be haunted by the ghosts of Palestinian children and all those dead by his pathetic play-acted inability to stand up for the average person until his dying breath and forever beyond.
posted by wafehling at 5:49 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Like are folks eager to see what Liz Fucking Cheney does to the Supreme Court in eight years just as some combination of Sotomayor, Kagan, Roberts, and Alito leaves the court?
posted by kensington314 at 5:49 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

>>Major Biden donor John Morgan tells @ABC News he won't fundraise for Harris if she's the nominee

Amazing how AOC was right. The tidal wave of support for Harris tells me that this guy will likely have to put up or shut up.
posted by donttouchmymustache at 5:50 PM on July 21 [37 favorites]

Technically Kamala Harris can respond to every Trump presidential debate claim with "OK Boomer".
posted by srboisvert at 5:50 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

I doubt he has the stones to face her in a debate.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:51 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Will Steakin, ABC News:
Major Biden donor John Morgan tells @ABC News he won't fundraise for Harris if she's the nominee

"If Trump World could pick anybody to run against, I think they pick her."

It's good to know the rich libs of the party also threaten to take their ball and go home. Sucks to suck, John, don't let the door hit you!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:51 PM on July 21 [26 favorites]

Major Biden donor John Morgan tells @ABC News he won't fundraise for Harris if she's the nominee

"But I've already bought a candidate!"
posted by pwnguin at 5:53 PM on July 21 [36 favorites]

Technically Harris is a Boomer (just barely - two months). Also, we need the Boomers to voter for her, and if my parents are any indication they hate that saying.
posted by coffeecat at 5:53 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

"If Trump World could pick anybody to run against, I think they pick her."

Who are these people acting like there's time to build hype and national-level name recognition around some new person? While also not alienating all the people who would see deposing Harris as racist and misogynist? Anyway, Trump ran against quite a lot of very white, very macho-striving guys in his primary races, and I hear he did okay against those.

Gritty

Oooh.
posted by trig at 5:54 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

But she is the first Black woman to run for President, so she's got that.

Minor historical note, the first Black woman to run for President of the United States was Shirley Chisholm in 1972. Chisholm was also the first black woman ever elected to the US Congress, in 1968.

That's no diss to Kamala (loving the energy people are showing), but do want to get history right.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:55 PM on July 21 [135 favorites]

I was against Biden stepping down...until he did, as I feared Harris would somehow be pushed aside.

But seeing as she isn't being sidelined, I find myself excited at the prospect of the first woman president--and a woman of color, at that!--hoping it will ease some of the sting I still feel from that miserable November day in 2016, where just hours earlier I was confident that barrier was just about to be hurdled.

Let's go, indeed.
posted by maxwelton at 6:00 PM on July 21 [42 favorites]

like there's time to build hype and national-level name recognition around some new person?

This, this, a thousand times this. Turning a boat the size of a national campaign is not easy. If this is going to work, we need to get hype on the candidate, and a clear, compelling message. Then GOTV especially in swing states. Kinzinger as VP would be fun.
posted by vrakatar at 6:01 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

I was gonna put on that Biden / Harris 2024 bumper sticker but something told me to wait. Now I have a collector's item and I can slap on the Harris 2024 the minute it arrives.
posted by jabo at 6:03 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Kamala Harris: The future is now.

...but will it be evenly distributed?
posted by JohnFromGR at 6:03 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Eh, I walked into this with eyes open. Like I said, I don't like Cheney except for the part where she stood against the fascist. I have never before in my political life suggested putting a republican on the democratic ticket, but what happens in November is more important that what happens in 8 years hence.

So I thought it would be interesting to think about a ticket that could peel of some of the non-ideological voters that might just be looking for an excuse not to vote for the felon and rapist. Team of Rivals, and all that.

I will vote for Harris/Cthulhu 2024 if it comes to that. The VP choice won't affect me in anyway (likely). The VP slot is (in my crude understanding) for shoring up votes where the candidate is weak.

Someone will have to explain the Sorkin thing to me. Also, way to deny me my agency. To have terrible ideas. :)
posted by chromecow at 6:03 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

The first woman to run for president was Victoria Woodhull. One of her catchphrases (though they didn’t have that word in the 1870s) was:

“They cannot roll back the rising tide of reform. The world moves.”
posted by box at 6:04 PM on July 21 [58 favorites]

I find myself excited at the prospect of the first woman president--and a woman of color, at that!--hoping it will ease some of the sting I still feel from that miserable November day in 2016

It does give me a big "Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown again" vibes... but come on, LETS DO THIS!

like there's time to build hype and national-level name recognition around some new person?

I was worried Harris would be the "new person" but she's got enough momentum in the last 6 hours already that they'd be insane to suggest anyone else.
posted by mmoncur at 6:05 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

In the same week as some semi-organized kid put a round through Trump's ear, the idea of putting Liz Cheney second in line to a Democratic president seems especially foolish.
posted by Rumple at 6:05 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

Anil Dash posted this YouTube explainer about the coconut tree thing. It's a little snipped of a speech by Harris which the RNC tried to use to smear her and which has become a TikTok thing.

I don't see where this comes from Anil Dash, what am I missing

He posted the link to the explainer video on Bluesky.
posted by srboisvert at 6:06 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

In the same week as some semi-organized kid put a round through Trump's ear, the idea of putting Liz Cheney second in line to a Democratic president seems especially foolish.

Especially since Dead-heart Dick don't miss.
posted by srboisvert at 6:08 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Manchin considering putting himself up as a Dem presidential candidate

Imagining looking at this moment and thinking, "I, at 77, am the fresh-faced alternative."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:08 PM on July 21 [50 favorites]

How does the “conservative” party get away with smearing someone for sharing a fundamentally conservative anecdote about the importance of being aware of your own history?

I know, I know, don’t answer.

I was most worried about a withdrawal being followed by chaos. If this is going to end in a smooth and essentially uncontested Harris nomination — then count me excited, too.
posted by eirias at 6:09 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I hope all the "Biden never did any good for anyone" people get all their hot takes out in the next week so I never again have to roll my eyes out of my skull about it again. But even if they don't I suppose I'll just go back to enjoying the massive change he's implemented on infrastructure and healthcare for the poorest Americans, which you never see reported on because journalists aren't interested in us unless it's for a rural Republican voter piece. If you and your social circle on average make more than 40k a year then you probably haven't seen half the shit he's done. My local native health center has an entire new wing for child behavioral health, my grandparents' drug costs have been drastically reduced, and my $250 deductible marketplace insurance cost $10 a month, all thanks to the Biden administration. I think he did the right thing by stepping down but it wasn't because he didn't fight for working class Americans.

I can't wait to see Harris take the foundations this administration has built and fucking run with them. I'll still be putting the pressure on re: Gaza and the things they haven't done yet, but this is the first time I was actually in a place to donate to a political campaign as someone who's been struggling to recover from homelessness for the past ten years and it's thanks to the change that's been made in the past four years. Here's to four and many more of work like this.
posted by brook horse at 6:11 PM on July 21 [174 favorites]

srboisvert, I think I misinterpreted that comment -- thought Dash had maybe gone in on an unanticipated mid-career switch up!
posted by kensington314 at 6:14 PM on July 21

Is the coconut thing not a racial slur? I assumed it was something along the lines of 'oreo'. This might be one of those pleasant surprises I've heard about.
posted by stet at 6:15 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

"Today I am an inquisitor. An hyperbole would not be fictional and would not overstate the solemnness that I feel right now. My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total. And I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction, of the Constitution"

-Barbara Jordan.
posted by clavdivs at 6:16 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

But even if they don't I suppose I'll just go back to enjoying the massive change he's implemented on infrastructure and healthcare for the poorest Americans, which you never see reported on because journalists aren't interested in us unless it's for a rural Republican voter piece. If you and your social circle on average make more than 40k a year then you probably haven't seen half the shit he's done.

I am one of the very poor. Like two people on a 20-24K per year. And I am one of the better off people in my social circle. That change hasn't been felt by me or my acquaintances. The last eight years have been a steady loss of spending power, with less and less health coverage. I am glad if there has been a positive impact on you and yours. Genuinely I am. But as one of the group I think you are complaining about, I have had a very different experience.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:19 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

Manchin, who never understood the value of party unity anyway, is about to see a 100% unified, "No thank you and shut the fuck up, sir" from the Dems.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:20 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

It’s good folks are getting re-energized about this election… but let’s not forget the Republicans are planning a massive attempt to ratf*ck it through the same folks who tried the last time (NYT link / archive).

So now is a good time to call your local Democratic office and see how you can help stop it.
posted by jabo at 6:20 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

METAFILTER: I will vote for Harris/Cthulhu 2024 if
posted by philip-random at 6:21 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Pro tip: any time you hear someone talking about the Democratic Party as a "ratchet", you know they are full to the gills with Dudebro Radical Podcast sewage.

No, I don't think that is right. The ratchet analogy(? metaphor? whatever.) existed at least as far back as the early 2000s, and is probably older, Nothing about it is "dudebro". In fact, I have generally heard it from the social justice/human rights focused left, who are pretty distinct in terms of their general culture than the "dirtbag left" pure fiscal progressive types. Of course, those are very rough approximations of groups including a lot of diversity, so any generalities will be dubious, but this particular one seems just directly wrong.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:25 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

Harris is not just picking up endorsements. State by state, Biden's pledged delegates are already transferring their votes to Harris. Fundraising for Democrats has exploded. I am almost certain she will be the nominee, and that she will understand that she is approaching the situation with a strong enough position that she doesn't have to take on a Republican VP or some stupid crap like that.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 6:25 PM on July 21 [63 favorites]

The first YT comment on the most recent Late Night with Seth Meyers episode of Corrections (from Friday, here) is "You know only the most insane stuff will happen during the next three weeks when Seth is on break for the Olympics." Well we're off and running now I guess.
posted by axiom at 6:26 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

I really hope it's Beshear.
posted by Gadarene at 6:27 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

"If Trump World could pick anybody to run against, I think they pick her."

Then why do they all seem to be having meltdowns over this news? So far I've seen:

-A Trump Truth Social post about how he thinks Biden should refund him all the money he wasted running against Biden.
-A Tweet about how because Harris has never reproduced she shouldn't be president (that will play well among normal people).
-Reminders that she has a nice laugh (Ok.....)
-Alt-righter James Lindsey claiming that a phrase Harris often uses in speeches, "to see what can be, unburdened by what has been," "is not mysterious. It's esoteric. That is, it's occult. It's a Marxist and Luciferian incantation, and that's easily seen."
-Senior Trump campaign advisor Jason Miller says a major liability for Kamala Harris is that “she wants to ban plastic straws.” - NBC

I mean, it seems like they really have nothing - no clear strategy against her. Meanwhile, I'm seeing so much enthusiasm for what would be an historic presidency. Seems good.
posted by coffeecat at 6:28 PM on July 21 [71 favorites]

Well, OK, then. Let's get this done.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:29 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

If Harris were genuinely a Marxist-Luciferian, I know a dozen people who would fall over themselves to volunteer for her campaign.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:30 PM on July 21 [54 favorites]

I really hope it's Beshear.

I hope he can grow a better beard that Vance so they can run with Bashear with Good Beard.
posted by srboisvert at 6:30 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

-A Trump Truth Social post about how he thinks Biden should refund him all the money he wasted running against Biden.

🤔 Maybe we can trick him into believing the best revenge is dropping out so the Dems have wasted all their money too. "It's only fair!"
posted by pwnguin at 6:31 PM on July 21 [26 favorites]

I hope Kamala’s VP is someone who’s been vetted six ways to Sunday, isn’t afraid to say ‘transgender’ or ‘abortion,’ and is at least as far left as the candidate.
posted by box at 6:32 PM on July 21 [24 favorites]

My attempt at optimism right now is that the "Christ, I'm tired of old guys... Can't we get a younger adult in the room?" contingent among low info voters is actually pretty huge and the Dems maybe locked up a bunch of them. I'm talking about people who start looking at the candidates mid to late election year via what they see in headlines to stories they do not actually read or what they overheard at lunch or see on SNL... those people actually swing elections. And this maybe delivers a bucket load of them.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:33 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

the whole system is a ratchet, man. guuuurgle
posted by torokunai at 6:34 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

box: Considering her record on trans people in prison, I am somewhat concerned about what else she'd say along with "transgender." (For reference, she insisted on sending trans women to men's prisons and denied trans prisoners access to HRT.)

That said, I'm still voting for her like my life depends on it because as a trans person, my life literally does depend on it.
posted by SansPoint at 6:34 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

Pattern juggler, I know this isn't everyone's experience and I wish that it was. I don't mean to say that every working class person has had it better under Biden, but the idea that he hasn't improved anything for is just false.

They also are not broad sweeping changes; the examples I gave are of addressing specific problems for various specific groups (people who use the tribal healthcare system, people who are on Medicare, people who use marketplace insurance) instead of everyone at once. This is where the work has been done when the sweeping change has been blocked. And they are generally benefiting groups the media isn't interested in talking about.

I make 28k for two people with significant medical expenses so like--yeah, I still feel the pain, it's definitely not great right now, but Biden has been putting in the work we need to make progress for some (but not all) of the most marginalized groups in America and I trust Harris to continue that and bring change to even more people.
posted by brook horse at 6:35 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

you know they are full to the gills with Dudebro Radical Podcast sewage.

I have never listened to a political podcast in my life, I swear to god, I just have to fucking live in this dying empire of a country and have working eyes and ears.

I have been sitting here watching Biden euthanize, or shrink down to a pathetic crumb, every single campaign promise about housing, rent, healthcare, the environment, police, inflation, food costs, education

All while the spending power of me and my very much not rich friends and family steadily shrinks, and the wealth gap widens, and the bombs fall like rain and the military budget balloons with no end in sight.

I really don't know what to tell you. He said he'd do a lot of shit, and then spent 4 years making up excuses why he couldn't do it, and then did a bunch of objectively evil, harmful shit like it was his divine duty. He's spent the last year bending over backwards defending and funding Israel's genocide, for fuck's sake. If he did any tangible good no one I know has felt it. How am I supposed to react to all this?
posted by wafehling at 6:36 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

I wish Harris/Whitmer made more strategic sense because that ticket would be cool as hell
posted by jason_steakums at 6:36 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I can't get to her website which I'm taking as an excellent sign.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:37 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

"to see what can be, unburdened by what has been," "is not mysterious. It's esoteric. That is, it's occult. It's a Marxist and Luciferian incantation, and that's easily seen."

Brb putting this quote on my altar next to "as above, so below."
posted by brook horse at 6:39 PM on July 21 [27 favorites]

I have a lot of emotions about all this, oddly enough! Remember that really awkward/ cringe/ racist thing he said about Obama back in 2007? What the hell was that? Then Obama picks him as VP and he does a stand-up job in that role. Then he gets to be President and does more good stuff after 4 years of really bad stuff.

Back on Thursday (remember how long ago that was?!), a friend asked me if I thought Biden would bow out and I responded "Nah, he's too proud and he's done a pretty good job, so why should?"

Yet here we are. That's gotta hurt him on many levels and is no doubt painful to essentially say, in front of the whole world, "No, I'm not up to this anymore". That takes a certain amount of goodness within a person. He's not a perfect man or hasn't been a perfect President, but he's been better than I hoped for, and that says a lot.

So take a bow Joe, you put party and country before you. Thank you for that and I hope your final years of life and Presidency are good to you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 PM on July 21 [55 favorites]

How am I supposed to react to all this?

Study the Constitution more, specifically Article I powers?
posted by torokunai at 6:41 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

pattern juggler, do you recall any benefits from the American Rescue Plan, passed by Biden and Democrats in Congress in 2021? It included cash payments of $1,400 to individuals, increases in unemployment benefits, and increases in the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit. Many people consider it one of the most effective anti-poverty programs in the country's history, with the poverty rate dropping by 22% in one year. Biden and most congressional Democrats wanted to extended some of the anti-poverty measures in the bill, but were blocked by unified opposition from Republicans. As a result, many poor Americans (families, in particular) saw their economic situations deteriorate when the expanded benefits expired. But credit Biden for at least getting something done for a little while, against unified opposition.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 6:41 PM on July 21 [40 favorites]

Y'all got what you wanted. I hope it works out the way you said it would

Immediately followed by:

Alright Democrats, don't fuck this up.

Yeah cuz if it turns out to be a disaster, it won't be because it was a dumb idea, but because someone else fucked it up. Might as well start with the pre-excusal already.

I don't know, I think there was no actual right answer here, unfortunately. I'm afraid there's not time for any democrat to break through the reflexive party-line stereotype to actually connect with people by speaking, like Obama did. It may have still been the right thing to do, regardless, if Joe isn't up to it.
posted by ctmf at 6:41 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

"to see what can be, unburdened by what has been," "is not mysterious. It's esoteric. That is, it's occult. It's a Marxist and Luciferian incantation, and that's easily seen."


Ah, the good old classic, "She's a WITCH!" ...
posted by The otter lady at 6:42 PM on July 21 [52 favorites]

Also, thank you pattern juggler, for sharing your thoughts about you haven't felt the impact of things Biden has done. I respect you for voicing that and reminding us that there's still so much to do to ensure that every American gets a slice of the pie.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:43 PM on July 21 [32 favorites]

If our creaky old election machinery can get us through one more quasi democratic election and the Supremes aren't able to fuck us over, we might actually be able to veer the car away from the cliff-edge instead of barrelling over it. Honestly, the big burst of enthusiasm I'm seeing this afternoon says to me more than anything that this was the right move, that the various problems with Biden's campaign were in fact weighing the party down in ways we did not recognize.

I have heard one person who would normally gnaw off a forearm rather than donate to a presidential candidate of our own evil empire propose donating to Harris, not out of enthusiasm for her but out of enthusiasm for feeling like she can maybe beat Trump. I think that as long as Harris doesn't go on about how she's going to be sending billions more to Israel, yes sir, then a lot of people are just going to charge ahead and vote.

I hope she beats the drum about Project 2025 too - there's been a lot of very worried chatter about it from people who don't normally really get focused on elections until much closer to the day.
posted by Frowner at 6:44 PM on July 21 [55 favorites]

>84 year-old who says 81 is too old for public office has official opinions.

Can we please stop it with this kind of take. If a person has actual cognitive decline or issues then they do. Otherwise the opinion of a 24 year old, 34 year old, 44 year old, 54 year old, 64 year old, 74 year old, 84 year old, and 94 year old are all quite equally valid.

Can you explain - short of actual prejudice - why not?

If anything, the word of someone who is 84 and has spent a few decades as a leader in the national political scene, probably carries a lot more weight than that of some random 24 year old, 34 year old, etc etc.

It's one thing to gripe about people holding onto power too long. That's actually a thing for various reasons and actually is something that can be true of people of many ages (we've had people in our state legislature and various local positions who've been in positions for 20 years - in their 40s already. This is the same basic problem as when the same thing happens when the person is in their 80s. In fact, the person in the 40s if - if anything - actually worse because they might decide to stay in power for a further several decades. Whereas the person in their 80s at least has some natural endpoint to their career that is a relatively few years away).

Anyone, yip-yapping because some 84 year old with decades of experience in a certain arena, has expressed an opinion about something in that arena, implying that there is something wrong with people of that age expressing an opinion, is petty, idiotic, and straight-up age-ist.

We don't tolerate any of the other -isms around here and I don't see why we should tolerate ageism either.
posted by flug at 6:47 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

do you recall any benefits from the American Rescue Plan

I recall them explicitly campaigning on $2000, then unsuccessfully trying to gaslight the country afterwards

I also recall basic COL expenses like food, housing, and electricity skyrocketing so much during his term that even $2000 would be a drop in the bucket against it

I also remember them removing the minimum wage increase because the Senate Parliamentarian, a powerless uneelcted official that can be overruled and removed at any time, said they didn't like it

This is what I mean. Where's the powerless unelected fall guy to tell biden he can't send Israel billions of extra dollars worth of weapons to commit genocide with an EE? These sort of things keep cropping up whenever a democrat's in power, but only when something universally good for people might actually happen...
posted by wafehling at 6:48 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

If your drinking game makes you take a shot every time there's an appearance by Heidi Heitkamp or Claire McCaskill, I am very concerned for your liver right now.

Thanks OK. My liver's rested up after playing the If You See a Black Person at the RNC, Drink! game. #worstDrinkingGameEver
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Time for the good news cycle to finally hit the Ds; on the other side, with convention over, the Rs are now in for their own reality check.

Let's do this, indeed!
posted by mazola at 6:50 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

We don't tolerate any of the other -isms around here and I don't see why we should tolerate ageism either.

That wasn't an ageist joke. It was a joke about hypocrisy. There is no ageist critique Pelosi can aim at Biden that doesn't also resonate against herself.

I wasn't in the "Get rid of Biden; he's old" contingent.

I don't have anything at all against older politicians, only those who talk out of both sides of their mouths.

I don't usually bother to explain jokes, but if you're gonna do the high horse "We don't tolerate _____ism" thing, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just bad at reading jokes and spell this one out.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:50 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

pattern juggler, do you recall any benefits from the American Rescue Plan, passed by Biden and Democrats in Congress in 2021? It included cash payments of $1,400 to individuals, increases in unemployment benefits, and increases in the child tax credit and the earned income tax credit.

I do remember the last stimulus check. Biden ran on giving a $2000 stimulus and then cut it to $1400, saying it was $2000 when combined with the last $600 check Trump provided. Given that even Donald Trump sent out stimulus checks, though I am not going to praise that as a sign someone cares about the poor. The rest never touched us. I was an "essential worker" because I was in healthcare and we've never been in a place where having kids would have been a good idea.

But mostly I remember that period for the decision to cut covid isolation times to 5 days from the medically recommended 10 because businesses were complaining. I got covid very early on, before the vaccine, and while I was terribly sick and weak, I recovered. I got the omicron variant after the reduction in isolation times, as family members in the homes I worked in kept coming down with it at work. And I have suffered some long term health effects from it that have made it much harder for me to keep working.

So I have some bad feeling about Biden's covid response.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:52 PM on July 21 [39 favorites]

Manchin considering putting himself up as a Dem presidential candidate

This could give Harris a brilliant success at the convention, so she can say "I earned the nomination, it wasn't just handed to me".

And Manchin would get the drubbing he so richly deserves.

Could be a win-win!
posted by gimonca at 6:53 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I don't have time to compile a bunch of links on this, but if you search "Biden American Indian funding" you will find a host of things he's done to get money in the hands of the most impoverished demographic in America. There's also been legislation around returning museum artifacts to tribes and increasing tribal power to block pipelines on their lands. The reporting on all of this has been minimal but the information is there. And I have directly seen the impacts of this--my local native health center alone got $1 million in funding last year.
posted by brook horse at 6:53 PM on July 21 [61 favorites]

It will be interesting to see a non-incumbent go into a general campaign without having gone through the primary process (not counting 2020). Normally a candidate arrives having been thrashed with different sticks by opponents in their own party, and the convention becomes at least in part about reconciling all those contradictions. Harris gets to arrive more or less unscathed, primed only for defeating Trump. It might be a substantial advantage.
posted by argybarg at 6:53 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

That wasn't an ageist joke. It was a joke about hypocrisy. There is no ageist critique Pelosi can aim at Biden that doesn't also resonate against herself.

Pelosi stepped down from leadership in 2022, explicitly because "the hour has come for a new generation to lead the Democratic caucus that I so deeply respect." She walked the walk before she talked the talk.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

Biden ran on giving a $2000 stimulus and then cut it to $1400, saying it was $2000 when combined with the last $600 check Trump provided.

Shit, that dude should definitely drop out of the race.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

I don't have time to compile a bunch of links on this, but if you search "Biden American Indian funding" you will find a host of things he's done to get money in the hands of the most impoverished demographic in America.

I appreciate you pointing this out. It is something I was unaware of. And I am glad Biden did it.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:56 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

May Biden be haunted by the ghosts of Palestinian children and all those dead by his pathetic play-acted inability to stand up for the average person until his dying breath and forever beyond.

this, so much.

Pro tip: any time you hear someone talking about the Democratic Party as a "ratchet", you know they are full to the gills with Dudebro Radical Podcast sewage.

no, we're full to the gills with Palestinian voices screaming from under the rubble for literally anyone to do anything to stop the American-tax-paid missiles raining down on them. If you watched any of the DoD or State Dept daily press briefings with the spokesperson spinning and denying and lying through their teeth from reporters asking legitimate questions about Israel and the genocide, you would be radicalized too.
posted by numaner at 6:57 PM on July 21 [21 favorites]

torokunai, you sent me a graph that shows, even in whatever tortured form that graph takes:

That the military spending bills (That Biden has the power to NOT sign, if my civics knowledge is correct) have raised spending higher on average during his presidency than during Trump's term, and that steadily increased during the latter half of his presidency

I really don't know what point you're trying to make
posted by wafehling at 6:58 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Shit, that dude should definitely drop out of the race.

I wish the posts praising Biden got the same kind of response. If we aren't supposed to discuss his impact then I will shut up about it, but until that happens or someone makes an official "good vibes only" ruling I feel like it is fair to criticize him as well. Especially when I was asked what impact these policies had on me personally.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:59 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Those spending bills include the resources being sent to Ukraine. So not for nothing.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 7:01 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Hmm. I'm a little late to the conversation, and it's a little late to read <1K comments. I'll just say (as I'm sure someone has already said!) I told you so! Oh. Not you. But everybody else, the minute the debate ended: Oh Happy Day! Biden is Toast!
posted by kozad at 7:03 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Yeah, only took a month for everyone to catch up with the obvious, but it’s nice that we all made it.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 7:04 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

“Biden Out: Why It Should Be Harris,” Don Moynihan, Can We Still Govern?, 21 July 2024

“Joe Goes,” Daniel W. Drezner, Drezner’s World, 21 July 2024

“Kamala Harris Can Win,” Sam Thielman, FOREVER WARS, 21 July 2024
posted by ob1quixote at 7:05 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

I really did not want Biden to drop out. I was disgusted by the ageism many had in pushing for that, irritated that the people wanting him out who seemed non-ageist and sincere stupidly chose ~100 days before the election to push him out, and I continue to be irritated that people who cut this man out specifically because of his age want to try to chart the next course, despite their age. Fucking pick a lane, Dems, geez.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:12 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

ah, maybe St Petersburg, you certainly are a puzzle!

This's been pretty consistently against the site guidelines for a while now. Please stop derailing things with this "maybe people who are saying things I don't like are actually Russian plants!" junk.
posted by CrystalDave at 7:12 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

Fired up! Ready to go!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:17 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

This's been pretty consistently against the site guidelines for a while now. Please stop derailing things with this "maybe people who are saying things I don't like are actually Russian plants!" junk.

Hear, hear. It's junk + derail
posted by kensington314 at 7:27 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

I promise you that no one here is a Russian plant. If they are, they're a Russian secret agent who is running a truly amazing scam on the Russian government, earning a living infiltrating a fucking blog in the year of our lord 2024. If there IS a Russian agent here who is doing that, I frankly feel nothing but love for that guy, feeding his family by talking about who's been dudebro berniepilled, when he could be getting shot in some Ukrainian guy's backyard. Good for you, dude.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:27 PM on July 21 [46 favorites]

I really do not like Pete Buttigieg. It'd be great to have the first openly gay VP, but like, can't it just be...someone else? George Takei? Joan Jett?
If anyone can get Joan Fucking Jett on the ticket, I will find a way to get US citizenship before November just so I can vote for that!
posted by dg at 7:28 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

I think the Ukraine discussion is a derail. The origins of the war and the reasons it has reached the point it is at now are very complex, and aren't reducible to any one group causing or prolonging the war.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:28 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

This is not what I wanted (I wanted Biden to stay in) but if it's what we have, I will gather up all the optimism I can muster.

My one big hope now is that Harris has grown beyond the huge Achilles heel she had in her 2020 campaign, where, when pressed with a tricky question, she would retreat into overly cautious "You can't get me to say anything that would be risky" lawyer-ese.

If she's past that, I will feel a lot better.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:29 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

> I fear we're about to see an epic amount of sexism and racism.

evacide on Mastodon said it well:

"A whole lot of people who were previously unfamiliar with the word "misogynoir" are about to learn it real soon."

My hope is that the inevitable dialing up of "isms" by Republicans turns some undecideds away from them.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 7:32 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

It's going to be great to beat the inevitable misogyny and racism.
posted by kensington314 at 7:35 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

John Gruber, an Apple pundit, has a short piece over on his blog which I think is excellent. I don't usually agree with his tech takes, but I'm almost always appreciative of his [rare] political posts. From the post:

The reason why U.S. presidential candidates tend to announce their campaigns two years before elections is because unlike parliamentary systems, our election dates and presidential terms are set in stone. Candidates announce early in the U.S. simply because they can. It’s a good thing, in an election where the overwhelming majority of independent voters wanted both Biden and Trump to drop out of the race, for the Democrats to start fresh, with almost four full months to run a campaign emphasizing youth, intelligence, competence, honesty, and change. New is a positive adjective in America.

As Tolkien wrote:

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
posted by khrusanthemon at 7:35 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

I hope it's NOT Shapiro, because he is truly, deeply evil on Palestine. As bad as Biden.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:36 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

Epic amounts of sexism aimed at Harris by Republicans? In a year in which women are primed to come out and vote to fight for their rights and survival, and are needed in vast numbers if evil is to be thwarted?

The briar patch awaits, CHUDs. Toss away.
posted by delfin at 7:36 PM on July 21 [31 favorites]

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"LMAO," said Gandalf, "Well it has.”
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 7:38 PM on July 21 [66 favorites]

I just hope that in say, 2026, I don't wake up hearing "But Biden was too old!" echoing in my brain the way I woke up hearing "But her emails!" in 2028.

Y'all better be right.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:40 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

I will vote for Harris/Cthulhu 2024 if it comes to that

His avowed purpose is to destroy the world? I think Cthulhu's a Republican.
posted by dannyboybell at 7:41 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Free headline idea for any news org that wants it:

DEMS IN ARRAY
posted by mmoncur at 7:41 PM on July 21 [62 favorites]

10:04 PM EST: There are 7000+ Black women on a Zoom call right now organizing for Kamala. And that's just *one* community she's connected with. Understand that folks aren't giving in to the inevitability of a Trump takeover.

10:38 PM EST: 34,000+ people are on this Zoom now. On a Sunday night before work. Wait until these women go out into their communities and organize voters.

Let's be extremely real for a moment, this shit was not gonna happen for Biden.
posted by windbox at 7:43 PM on July 21 [143 favorites]

The racist/sexist driven base isn't getting any bigger and it's got worse side effects every time it bears its ugly head.

Don’t count on this. The Republicans did a pretty good job of co-opting anger like GamerGate and telling a bunch of impressionable young men that feminism and diversity are the reason why they’re not where they want to be, rather than conservative policies. Why now a lot of them have messed up their lives with that kind of thinking that they’re going to vote R for the next half century because the alternatives involve admitting they were wrong about a lot of things.
posted by adamsc at 7:46 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

Epic amounts of sexism aimed at Harris by Republicans? In a year in which women are primed to come out and vote to fight for their rights and survival, and are needed in vast numbers if evil is to be thwarted?

The briar patch awaits, CHUDs. Toss away.

At the risk of being whatever, this is what some of us have been saying for a while.
posted by Gadarene at 7:46 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

There should honestly just be a button on MeFi that says "My wildly uncharitable and unlikely reading of your comment indicates you are a bad person actually" as it would save a lot of time for people.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:46 PM on July 21 [61 favorites]

I just hope that in say, 2026, I don't wake up hearing "But Biden was too old!" echoing in my brain the way I woke up hearing "But her emails!" in 2028.

Dental plan!
posted by logicpunk at 7:47 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

Harris is already bringing it tonight, echoing her 2020 ad:

I prosecuted sex predators. Trump is one.

I shut down for-profit scam colleges. He ran one.

I held big banks accountable. He's owned by them.

I'm not just prepared to take on Trump, I'm prepared to beat him.

posted by darkstar at 7:48 PM on July 21 [52 favorites]

DirtyOldTown, The joke was you said 2028 instead of 2017. Hate to explain the joke but that's what it's come to nowadays.
posted by dannyboybell at 7:48 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Like, it's difficult to overstate just how tepid Biden is, was, and has always been on abortion.

He cannot do the things Harris can do to activate people on that.
posted by Gadarene at 7:48 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I'd put money on Trump continuing to drop "Biden" into all of his rants since he doesn't brain too good and it will take him a while to reprogram his autopilot verbal nonsense for rallies

I bet he calls her "Nikki Haley" at least once, and "Nancy Pelosi" 2 or 3 times.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:48 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

Ah, I see. Typo. Sorry. Having already been called ageist and overly defensive of the elderly candidate today, I'm a little cranky.

In my defense, I'm posting from my phone in a hotel room 56 hours after I started on my way home and a dozen hours before I will get there.

Thanks, Crowdstrike.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:50 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Biden was always my idea of a decent Republican, yes. Like the Clintons, and Obama.

too bad we can't live in that world, eh . . . shoulda studied norsk instead of Japanese in college : (
posted by torokunai at 7:51 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

how tepid Biden...has always been on abortion

"Tepid" is putting it mildly; as recently as 2015 he was saying "I believe abortion is always wrong" in interviews.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:51 PM on July 21 [13 favorites]

Is that true? For shame
posted by kensington314 at 7:53 PM on July 21

Is that true? For shame

In a Jesuit magazine, no less.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:55 PM on July 21 [6 favorites]

He is a Roman Catholic, he is entitled to both believe that it is wrong before his god and to ensure that it stays legal as a matter of policy. Choice should not be about shaming those who feel it is always wrong but still work to keep the choice legal. Hence the whole choice being made.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 7:56 PM on July 21 [75 favorites]

I assume that Lorne Michaels call to Maya Rudolph was within an hour of the news breaking.
posted by Ber at 7:59 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

He said abortion is always wrong in Catholic doctrine, but he is pro abortion rights because he will not tell anyone else they have to accept that doctrine.
posted by brook horse at 7:59 PM on July 21 [64 favorites]

7000+ Black women on a Zoom call right now organizing for Kamala. [...] Let's be extremely real for a moment, this shit was not gonna happen for Biden.

i mean, don't sell them short -- as i understand it black women have always been out there reliably organizing and driving grassroots movements. but of course this is very heartening to hear regardless
posted by a flock of goslings at 8:00 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

More than ever, in 2024, the presidential election feels less like it will come down to a broad evaluation of who ran the better campaign--much less a sober consideration of who will competently address the issues--than it will to which irrelevant bullshit excited and confused extremely poorly informed people who wander into the booth to vote.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:00 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

He's been an "abortions for thee but not for me" type for a long time, and does walk the walk on defending other people's access. I just wish the people who really need to see how a person can keep their own faith while vehemently opposing the idea of imposing it on others didn't hate the guy, because he's a good example of it.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:00 PM on July 21 [29 favorites]

I think I actually do kind of agree with you, ignorantsavage. I guess my strong reaction is that we deserve someone who can more strongly message the sheer evil of half the population losing their right to bodily autonomy. But I do believe people have a right to their conscience and can and should make distinction between personal beliefs and what is right for civil society. And, more to the point of the thread here, we now have that stronger messenger!
posted by kensington314 at 8:02 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Maybe we can start a new thread just for Kamala Harris as the new candidate? She deserves one, as a historic candidate, and we won’t have to keep relitigating all of Biden’s flaws in the thread.

It just feels like maybe we can move on, now that Biden has dropped out of the race.

In the spirit of The Simpsons, “Stop! Stop! He’s already dead!”
posted by darkstar at 8:02 PM on July 21 [33 favorites]

Regardless of his personal views vs. policy endorsements I think it's clear that in either case, Biden was never going to be anywhere even close to the best candidate to have to deliver any sort of convincing messaging on abortion protection in one of the most urgent election years of our lifetime.
posted by windbox at 8:03 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

I feel like the 2000s and 2010s were about voting for the candidate you would most like to have a beer with and the the 2020s are about voting against the candidate you would most like to stab in the kidneys.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:04 PM on July 21 [19 favorites]

Someone who thinks abortion is "always wrong" is a misogynist, and we don't have to give the most powerful person in the country a pass for that because It's His Religion, sorry! And he's been absolutely shitty at messaging on abortion rights because he mostly can't even bring himself to say the word in public!
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:04 PM on July 21 [23 favorites]

This is all exciting but let's hope it's not just a dead coach bounce. Or, if it is one, one that can at least last until the day after Election Day.

dead coach bounce (ded koch bouns) noun. The burst of inspired play a team experiences immediately following an in-season coaching change.
posted by LostInUbe at 8:07 PM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Not arguing the balance of his presidency one way or another, but in the interest of calling attention to lesser-known things that Biden-Harris did —

I work at a nonprofit that provides care, support, and research for people living with ALS (aka Lou Gehrig’s disease). The ACT for ALS he signed at the end of 2021 has meant an enormous amount to what we do, unlike any other federal legislation I can name from my lifetime. It’s a rare disease and we’ll never have the numbers to get lawmakers’ attention by crowd size. So it wasn’t a vote earner or a media push. Just a huge amount of help that has been followed up with more help from other parts of his admin, and we’re hoping to get a companion piece of legislation across the finish line (the ALS Better Care Act) before he’s done.

Standard disclaimers about speaking only for myself, etc.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 8:08 PM on July 21 [42 favorites]

I just submitted an overseas voter application. It's a hassle, and i wasn't going to vote for Biden, period. But if Harris is the nominee, i'll at least consider jumping through the hoops. (My US domicile for voting purposes is a red state, of course, so it doesn't really matter either way.)

Don't get me wrong. I loathe Harris. But i loathe her slightly less than Biden, and i'm willing to concede that there is actually a lesser evil in the race now and put my vote where my mouth is.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:20 PM on July 21 [17 favorites]

Nice piece from the Philadelphia Inquirer

I especially liked:

"...Biden served the country with honor and decency. He respected the Oval Office and the rule of law. His service to the nation for half a century is laudable.

The same cannot be said about Trump, a draft dodger, failed businessman and reality TV show host who has denigrated America, stoked racial divisions, lined his pockets, and sided with dictators."
posted by chromecow at 8:22 PM on July 21 [31 favorites]

He is a Roman Catholic, he is entitled to both believe that it is wrong before his god and to ensure that it stays legal as a matter of policy

I don't really care what his personal religious beliefs are, those are between him and his imaginary sky-friend, they don't need to be entering any political discussion at all, as a candidate for a party whose official position is pro-choice he shouldn't say anything on the subject except "I believe in the right of women to bodily autonomy and legal access to safe pregnancy termination should their particular circumstances require it". If he can't say that then he's not really fit to lead a party the majority of whose members do have those beliefs.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:22 PM on July 21 [12 favorites]

(My US domicile for voting purposes is a red state, of course, so it doesn't really matter either way.)

IT DAMN WELL MATTERS! Guess how you turn red states blue? You've gotta vote blue. If you don't the dems in your state will never get any national resources ever. Nor will other people ever see any reason to vote blue (kind of like you are wavering right now). States can turn but not if people will only vote if they have a shot at winning electoral votes.
posted by srboisvert at 8:44 PM on July 21 [53 favorites]

I don't really care what his personal religious beliefs are, those are between him and his imaginary sky-friend, they don't need to be entering any political discussion at all, as a candidate for a party whose official position is pro-choice he shouldn't say anything on the subject except "I believe in the right of women to bodily autonomy and legal access to safe pregnancy termination should their particular circumstances require it". If he can't say that then he's not really fit to lead a party the majority of whose members do have those beliefs.

There are a lot of Catholics who vote Democratic, and Biden has been asked this question many times. He gives a thoughtful answer on it - “I believe this but I am not going to force you to act in accordance with my religious beliefs, and I will protect your right to make your own decisions.” What’s he supposed to say? Just a canned answer with no explanation like what you said?
posted by azpenguin at 8:51 PM on July 21 [51 favorites]

srboisvert: I assure you, i know how it works. My state was purple in my adult lifetime. It's gone deep red because of disenfranchisement, intense rural hatred for its major cities, and good old fashioned racism, and i'll be shocked if it turns even slightly purple again before i'm dead and buried.

Regardless, if i can jump through the required hoops and if Harris becomes the nominee and says anything even vaguely reasonable about ending the genocide in Palestine, i'll vote for her.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:52 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

This could give Harris a brilliant success at the convention, so she can say "I earned the nomination, it wasn't just handed to me".

And Manchin would get the drubbing he so richly deserves.

I think Manchin might get something much worse at the convention: Laughter.
posted by srboisvert at 8:58 PM on July 21 [5 favorites]

And if she doesn't say what you want you will just abstain? This is the political equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Gaza is a nightmare, do you think that by not voting, thus helping Trump, you will show the Democratic Party the error of their ways?
posted by Ignorantsavage at 9:00 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

No, i don't think i'll be showing anyone the error of their ways. I think i'll be holding my own personal line in the sand, which is that if you can't even be cursorily and performatively anti-genocide, i'm not going to vote for you.

Please note that i am not telling anyone else whether to vote, or how to vote; in my view, electoralism isn't going to save us from fascism, period. (And make no mistake, the US is already fascist, it's just that the fascism, pace William Gibson, is unevenly distributed.) I am simply making a personal statement about my own intentions.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:05 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

I'd love to be a one-issue voter. Especially that issue. What an unbelievable privilege that would be! But, unfortunately, concentration camps likely await myself and my loved ones if I made that my one issue. At least there is hope of a different path going forwards in Gaza with the pragmatic choice that is available to me. Supporting Trump, by abstaining in support for his opponent, will foment genocide on a whole other scale — worse, it will change nothing in Gaza. To me, the moral and rational calculus seems unambiguous.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:06 PM on July 21 [66 favorites]

Buddy, this has been rehashed over and over again. I'm queer and about half of my friends are trans. I assure you that you're not the only one who's worried about concentration camps. Most of my trans friends were also unwilling to vote for Genocide Joe, either, i should note. Harris has a really easy path to win back a lot of folks, not just me, just by saying something vaguely reasonable on the subject.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:10 PM on July 21 [22 favorites]

Option 1: 80% chance Bob gets punched in the mouth

Option 2: 100% chance Bob gets shot in the mouth and both knees

Sorry but I'm a single-issue voter on keeping Bob safe and will be sitting this one out
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:10 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Again: either the Democratic coalition is big and robust enough that it doesn't need the votes of angry anti-genocide leftists, and you can keep throwing us under the bus for not toeing the line of a party we don't like or trust; or the Democratic coalition is so fragile that it needs every angry anti-genocide leftist to vote or else Harris will lose, in which case Harris ought to, you know, throw us a fucking bone.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:13 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Buddy, this has been rehashed over and over again

And in that rehashment, and knowing what you have gotten to know about Trump after 2016-2020 and the subsequent deaths he caused, does it change what you know the outcome will be for your friends who will be affected — probably murdered — if he were to again assume power?

We are in pre-1933 Weimar territory here, so please think very carefully about the consequences for your friends, even if — with all respect — you feel the need to disagree with me from the distance and current physical safety of being an overseas voter.

The stakes for this are very serious and I encourage you to think carefully about the actual real-world outcome of Trump being installed, if only for the sake of your friends, if not for the issue you feel (reasonably and morally) passionate about, which Trump will make even worse.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:21 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

I'm queer and about half of my friends are trans.

And I believe you've also said that you have dual citizenship in Canada, and would thus be a bit more easily able to flee if need be. Is there a possibility that might be affecting your outlook?

....But speaking of single-issue voting: a perspective on Biden and abortion views.

as recently as 2015 he was saying "I believe abortion is always wrong" in interviews.

So, a friend I had once also stated this. Said friend wasn't just Catholic - he was SERIOUSLY DEVOUTLY Catholic, to the point that he had almost become a priest. And - even though he said he felt abortion was always wrong, he ALSO said he was pro-choice. When I asked him how he squared that circle, he said that: abortion was murder, and God said "Thou Shalt Not Kill". HOWEVER- that was what GOD said about the matter, and therefore the only opinion that mattered when it came to abortion and those who had them, was....God. No government, group, or individual human had the right to cast judgement on another person on the matter - that was between God and the person alone. It was a sin, he said, but it should never be a CRIME. (When I went on to ask whether he still felt that abortion was wrong in the case of rape, incest, or endangerment to the pregnant person, he shrugged and said "well, there are venial sins.")

It's very possible for someone to be opposed to abortion as a thing, but to still support the right of the individual to choose to have one.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:30 PM on July 21 [30 favorites]

If he promises to impeach a Supreme Court Justice, I’ll support Pete “Boot A Judge” Buttigieg for VP (and President of the Senate).
posted by mbrubeck at 9:33 PM on July 21 [4 favorites]

EmpressCallipygos: I, in fact, already live in Canada, hence the overseas voting hassles. I don't have to flee (although a Trump win would absolutely embolden Poilievre, who's already on track to win here, and he's easily as bad as Trump.)

However, most of my trans friends (who, again, were also mostly not willing to vote for Biden) live in the US.

I don't feel like wanting Harris to say "If elected, i will respect both international and US law and stop shipping weapons to Israel and using our UN veto to stop every possible means of holding them accountable" is a big or difficult ask. Either she needs my vote or she doesn't; she's the one with the actual power!
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:34 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

Even if she does say that, i figure there'll be about a 95% chance she's lying through her teeth! I'm even willing to vote for her on the 5% chance that she wouldn't be!
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:35 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

This is how you mark the retirement announcement of a political rival. Not with insults and glee, but with respect. The way most Republican politicians have reacted is disgraceful and disrespectful. Also typical of US politics today, I guess.
posted by dg at 9:42 PM on July 21 [8 favorites]

If someone has come around to supporting the Democratic candidate, and we want the Democratic candidate to win, I think we could let them have their say about what they don't like without piling on them. Not saying everyone has to agree with them or anything, but maybe just cut them some slack?
posted by Reverend John at 10:00 PM on July 21 [11 favorites]

Speaking from inside a cascade of cancelled flights with no end in sight at SLC airport, I have changed my mind about Kamala and will now endorse here on MetaFilter any candidate who promises to nationalize the airline industry.
posted by kensington314 at 10:47 PM on July 21 [37 favorites]

Game on!

This is all moving so fast, it had to be in the works for some time. Which is encouraging, that they timed it well and got their ducks in a row before Biden’s announcement. Biden maybe has known since even before the Holt interview last week.
posted by darkstar

Yes, difficult to see how such a major change, that is running so smoothly (thus far, very early days and all that), was hastily stitched together from scratch in a few days.

>If this had been in the works for some time the announcement would not have come on a Sunday.

Why? He has the entire news cycle to himself. It’s actually perfect. One full day of news and fundraising and endorsements before the screaming starts in earnest.
posted by anastasiav

Indeed. If you are going to upset the apple cart, then why not on a Sunday, when it is least expected.

The price of democracy is compromise. One position does not get to dictate the whole process unless their opposition opts out. You may not like your choices, but you still get to work on moving towards goals, if only incrementally. The fight for a better world is never won, but if you opt out then it will get worse. And by refusing to choose the better of poor options you are functionally just aiding the worst of what is on offer. Please recognize that the tactical choices need to be part of a strategy, but accept that some of those tactical choices are going to be tough. I live in a swing district and cannot stand my Rep, but I vote for them, because a centrist Dem is a hell-of-a-lot better than any of the MAGA nuts that have run against them. There is no chance of getting a truly Progressive candidate elected in my Congressional without first moving a bunch of rural voters out of the Red-media sphere. So I hold my nose and give the multi-millionaire New Dem centrist my vote. A vote is not a moral statement if it does not affect policies.
posted by Ignorantsavage

This cannot be said enough.

The way democracy works is via compromise. That is its fundamental underlying principle, and its practice.

Anybody who thinks that is intolerable is going to love the alternatives, which are all some variant of thug rule.
posted by Pouteria at 10:48 PM on July 21 [20 favorites]

Underrated aspect of this whole thing is Harris is a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. Which has 360,000 fiercely loyal members. Seems like potential to really out Black sororities and fraternities in this forefront.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:50 PM on July 21 [34 favorites]

Hey doesn't Trump seem old? It's like he can't form a complete sentence these days.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:54 PM on July 21 [35 favorites]

100% the AKAs are gonna be able to take credit for a win here. The margin will be within the universe of voters turned out by Kamala's sorors.
posted by kensington314 at 10:56 PM on July 21 [14 favorites]

Do you think it was maybe meant to be announced on Friday in time to dominate the whole weekend’s discourse but got punted due to the Crowdstrike nonsense?
posted by janell at 10:56 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

Hey doesn't Trump seem old? It's like he can't form a complete sentence these days.

Sure seems like something the New York Times should look into, right?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:00 PM on July 21 [36 favorites]

this is going to sound incredibly stupid but i’m calling this election for kamala harris right now, this election is purely vibes based and the vibes have shifted and is mirroring the energy trump had online in 2016
posted by Apocryphon at 11:10 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Biden’s decision to drop out crystallized Sunday. His staff knew one minute before the public did (AP News, July 21, 2024)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:10 PM on July 21 [9 favorites]

Welp. Guess we’ll see if I’m wrong about how this will go. Hope so.

Early and pretty hard to shake consolidation around one candidate even if there’s going to be some kind of convention process certainly cuts against a big one of my fears.
posted by Artw at 11:12 PM on July 21 [7 favorites]

Earlier, I sardonically joked about rich white donors nominating Manchin. A few hours later. Manchin tested the waters. I apologize to everyone for manifesting this reality.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:12 PM on July 21 [41 favorites]

i’m willing to concede that there is actually a lesser evil in the race now and put my vote where my mouth is.

if Harris becomes the nominee and says anything even vaguely reasonable about ending the genocide in Palestine, i'll vote for her.

Harris has a really easy path to win back a lot of folks, not just me, just by saying something vaguely reasonable on the subject.

I don't feel like wanting Harris to say "If elected, i will respect both international and US law and stop shipping weapons to Israel and using our UN veto to stop every possible means of holding them accountable" is a big or difficult ask.

Even if she does say that, i figure there'll be about a 95% chance she's lying through her teeth! I'm even willing to vote for her on the 5% chance that she wouldn't be!

adrienneleigh is asking for so little here (including respect for **US law**). I sincerely hope Harris delivers, but if she doesn’t the problem lies with Harris and the Democratic Party, not with adrienneleigh. I really don’t understand why the response to adrienneleigh’s comments is to make snide remarks about her “moral purity” instead of e.g. proposing that people lobby Harris and her team on the importance of this issue.
posted by mydonkeybenjamin at 11:15 PM on July 21 [25 favorites]

Early and pretty hard to shake consolidation around one candidate even if there’s going to be some kind of convention process certainly cuts against a big one of my fears.


Same here. I was especially concerned about Dems spending the next four weeks in a bloody knife fight leading up to a hotly contested Convention, and ultimately disengagement by folks sick of the infighting.

But today has been an astonishingly effective and almost complete transfer of the campaign to Harris, combined with an incredible boost in energy and excitement, not to mention fundraising.

So…yeah…pretty encouraged by the unexpected way this is unfolding.
posted by darkstar at 11:20 PM on July 21 [10 favorites]

I know the internet has the memory of a goldfish, this Biden appearance on Meet the Press changed the tone of the Democratic Party and the country. Nobody said "civil unions" after this.

VP Biden on meet the press 2012
posted by cmfletcher at 11:29 PM on July 21 [31 favorites]

Harris has a long hard road to victory. Sure, she is younger and more coherent, but she is saddled with the Biden track record and the Biden policies. I get that this administration has done some terrific things. I get that she is not Trump. If you look at the polling she has 2 major problems. One, her favorable is just 38% compared to Biden's 37%. Two, the swing states are starting to reject the Biden policies of the open border, the spending causing inflation, the energy policies leading to higher gas prices and higher electric bills, etc.

She is going to have to redefine herself, defend the Biden policies and turn around the polling in 100 days. She is going to have to raise enormous amounts of money. I hope she can do it, but I would not bet on it. The same people who supported Biden are the ones who are excited about Harris. What I am looking for is undecided voters breaking her way in almost all of the swing states. She is going to have to expend resources to shore up blue states like Virginia and New Hampshire.

I think her path to victory is out of her control to some extent. She needs Trump to (pardon the expression) shoot himself in the foot. He needs to have a severe Trump moment. Certainly that is possible, maybe even probable, but it is a tough way to run a campaign.

I think the real benefit of Biden stepping aside is the down ballot dems. Maybe she can save them. I think any dem but Biden would help down ballot.

Finally, what is very odd to me is that Biden did this in a letter posted on social media. No picture of Biden, no video message, no anything. Apparently the Chief of Staff is the one who informed the Cabinet. Why? I could speculate, but that is not necessary. Is he just going to show up to work on Monday, Tuesday, or whenever as if nothing happened?

Godspeed to whomever is the Democrat nominee. May they add to the astonishing circumstances of this election with the greatest comeback of all time.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:33 PM on July 21 [3 favorites]

I think Mr Gunn's post does point to the fundamental problem of the election, that a decent chunk of the electorate has retreated into magical thinking and no longer has the slightest connection to reality.
posted by Balna Watya at 11:41 PM on July 21 [16 favorites]

I would add that I think there is more than a non-zero possibility that Michelle Obama steps up to unite the party. I think that is why 44 has not endorsed Harris. He is waiting to see if she can rally, but if she falters, Michelle to the rescue.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:45 PM on July 21

From way up top:
Just realizing that Dems can now run on something like this:

"When it came to the future of America, Joe Biden did the right thing. [TFG] never would."

Just reporting from elsewhere: on Weibo a translation of Biden's letter is making the rounds, due to local political salience (ehem), so guys, feel free to chalk this up as a win on his China policy.

Re: when he dropped out and polling etc, from this Politico (gossip) piece: It wasn’t that the president had grown tired of the drip of defections from within his own party — although he had. Rather, it was that Biden himself was finally convinced of what so many other Democrats had come to believe since his poor debate performance last month: He couldn’t win.

When the campaign commissioned new battleground polling over the last week, it was the first time they had done surveys in some key states in more than two months, according to two people familiar with the surveys. And the numbers were grim, showing Biden not just trailing in all six critical swing states but collapsing in places like Virginia and New Mexico where Democrats had not planned on needing to spend massive resources to win.

it was the first time they had done surveys in some key states in more than two months

The last time I piped up here was because I'm ??? that he's not had a full cabinet meeting since October but I was assured this is normal (... No comment...)

It's almost in hindsight now but don't tell me this sort of polling behaviour is also normal.
posted by cendawanita at 11:48 PM on July 21 [15 favorites]

Absolute and staggering incompetence or hubris on the part of his team if true.
posted by Gadarene at 12:09 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

me in 2016: Kamala is a cop (derogatory)
me in 2024: Kamala is a cop (respectfully)

There is a unity candidate already, it's Harris. She has 50 state party chairs behind her, there is no alternative on short notice.

Am I the only one who wants the GOP to try the "DEI" line of attack on Harris? The thing about the Southern Strategy is it has to be deniable, Americans generally do not like explicitly racist attacks. It's one thing to accuse your opponent of being soft on "criminals" or "thugs", but if Trump wants to make the accusation Harris is unqualified because she's Black/Asian/Woman to her face, well, let's just say it will not look good when she flips the script on his record and gives him a verbal drubbing with the adversarial interviewing skills she's honed as a former prosecutor.

Republican campaigns generally work when they have time to define the opponent and issue. They've done all this prep making Biden's age an issue and now it's all useless - worse, Trump is now the oldest presidential candidate. I'm feeling better about the election now. She's doing a bit better than Biden in the states that matter and her relative obscurity means she's more likely to gain voters as they get to know her. It's a fighting chance.
posted by ndr at 12:18 AM on July 22 [25 favorites]

Okay. I'm writing this down before I catch up on this morning's developments, and maybe it's already out-of-date, but I might as well put it out there.

I'm not American, so take this with that particular grain of salt. But I'm a mid-50s Australian who has visited the US half a dozen times and lived there briefly a couple of times, has looked seriously at living and working there (I ended up in the UK instead), and like anyone else in the English-speaking world I've lived under America's shadow my whole life. I'm also a political scientist who has been thinking about international politics (and the role of the US) and even US domestic politics for many, many years. I've been extremely online for most of my life, and my two longest-lived online haunts are heavily US-dominated, one of which we're sitting in right now. My politics are and always have been of the left. When Trump was running in 2016 I took the threat seriously, and I was publicly labelling him a fascist—not a label I use casually—within days of his taking office. It would be fair to say that I'm an informed ally to all of you who are fighting to defeat him today.

So, with that context: when I saw this news late yesterday afternoon UK time, I felt the same surge of optimism I felt here in Britain in May when Rishi Sunak rolled the dice on his early election. Biden has derailed the doom train, and it's a masterly move. For the first time this year, I can positively hope, and not just hope against hope, that Trump is going down in November—not only because Trump isn't facing Biden, but because Trump is going to be facing Kamala Harris.

Biden's timing was perfect, announcing it on a slow news day immediately after the Republicans had locked in Trump and wiping out all of the media momentum Trump had been building. And we have to give the man credit for putting his own personal interest aside in this moment. He didn't have to; he had enough support around him that he could have ridden out the calls to step down to the point where there was no alternative but to see it through. It's a striking example of a powerful political figure recognising that it isn't just about them.

And he's left the Democrats with a fine alternative. Harris has faced the very real prospect of having to take over the presidency at a moment's notice for four years. She's a seasoned campaigner, and has been gifted a campaign period without any of the distractions of incumbency. And she's invulnerable to all of the Republican attack lines about Biden's age and infirmity. Their attempts to tie her to a political figure from the past because of a brief relationship thirty years ago look frankly pathetic. She can laugh them off, and she has one hell of an infectious laugh.

I'm bemused that anyone is still entertaining the idea that some other candidate can be parachuted in at this point. Those were all reasonable thought experiments when this was all hypothetical. Once Biden announced his decision yesterday, thought experiments went out the window. You're now in the same boat as UK Labour supporters complaining about Keir Starmer post-22 May 2024: Starmer was going to be our next prime minister whatever anyone said. And right now, Harris is going to be your next president—if you get behind her and help her kick that aging, angry egomaniac's ass. Don't waste any of that energy exploring alternatives who will need introducing to the wider electorate, replacing as governor of their state or any of that. You've had a President-in-Waiting for four years. People know her. Use her!
posted by rory at 12:38 AM on July 22 [74 favorites]

I know the internet has the memory of a goldfish, this Biden appearance on Meet the Press changed the tone of the Democratic Party and the country. Nobody said "civil unions" after this.

Biden's moment of courage was one that Obama had to race to catch up with. I've said that before here, and I'll never forget it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:41 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]

> Small-dollar donors raise over $27.5 million on ActBlue in the first 5 hours of Vice President Kamala Harris' presidential campaign. Grassroots supporters are energized and excited to support her as the Democratic nominee.

Seems like the Kamentum is building: Kamala Harris campaign raises $46.7M in first day: ActBlue

The nonprofit fundraising platform shared the news via X, adding: “This has been the biggest fundraising day of the 2024 cycle. Small-dollar donors are fired up and ready to take on this election.”

posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:42 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

Mod note: Catching up on (a million-billion) flags after a moderation gap, and many deleted, most for the usual reasons. Please focus on discussing the news and analyses rather than fellow members (but fellow members, also, please make this easier by not making it about "you"; if you are being super self-referential in your comments, folks are going to be commenting back in a similar vein, and this is a distraction from discussing the news rather than one-on-one personality-driven spats). Don't insult other members. Don't use slurs. Don't accuse people of being bots (bots cannot sign up and go through the process to join); don't accuse people of being plants. If you believe someone is a bad actor in this way, contact admin. Avoid conspiracy stuff. If there's a conspiracy, you need to be linking to actual, solid info of some type. Avoid derailing to a different topic. Please avoid cutesy stuff like assigning "homework" or intentionally cryptic or "wink-wink" remarks — we just don't have the bandwidth to accommodate this sort of thing, and it gets a lot of flags. If you want to say something, better to just say it. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:46 AM on July 22 [79 favorites]

The way things are working out is very encouraging.

The Republicans have been campaigning against Harris for a while, since the "Biden is old" thing was very much about "voting for nice white granddad means you will get scary black female prosecutor". But they haven't gone much beyond that stereotype, and the demographic who will vote against the scary black lady is already solidly tied up in the MAGA movement. That doesn't mean it's all smooth sailing from now on, though.

I don't think it's enough to run on an anti-fascist platform. I think there needs to be more of a hope and change message than the Biden-Harris platform has run with till now. More about a future and less about past accomplishments and bringing back order.

Biden was really bad at messaging on the important issues of this election: reproductive rights, rule of law, voting rights and global change (where immigration is just a signifier of something much larger). He was bad of them because he is old. Not because he is demented, but because his experiences and mindset don't really match those challenges. Harris gets at least three of these things far better, and the domestic issues are the most important things for an election.
(Biden's moment of courage was one that Obama had to race to catch up with. I've said that before here, and I'll never forget it.
That was amazing. But it wasn't the first or the last time a white privileged man found it easier to accept gay marriage than to support women's reproductive rights).

Another thing: it hasn't been mentioned much, because it is in bad taste and technically irrelevant, but it is a huge relief to finally get Hunter Biden out of the equation. I've dealt with addicted family members and it's terrible, and I feel a lot of sympathy for Joe and Jill who have tried to do the right thing the best they could. But like most of us in that situation, they couldn't do a lot, and it has given the Republicans an easy off-ramp regarding all the issues in the Trump family. Does Trump and his sons do drugs? Why yes they do, but so did Hunter Biden. Are Trump and all his family corrupt? Yes, but so is Hunter Biden. Does the Trump family cheat on their taxes? Yes but so does Hunter Biden. In summa: all politicians are the same.
I know Hunter isn't running for anything and the Trump crimes are ten-fold or more worse than anything Hunter Biden ever did, but that is not how things work in US politics. It's the same as the fact that Hillary absolutely did not have sex with that woman, and yet she was somehow to blame.
posted by mumimor at 12:54 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

Vice President Cori Bush please and thank you.
posted by riverlife at 1:09 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

It's beyond disturbing that this election isn't a layup: transcript of Trump's RNC acceptance speech given in advance to the media, vs. transcription of the 93-minute acceptance speech he eventually delivered [c-span video of speech]. In the latter, Viktor Orbán ("a very powerful, tough leader. He’s a tough guy") admires him; Kim Jong Un misses him. Don Jr and Eric "got subpoenaed more than any people probably in the history of the United States. Every week they get another subpoena from the Democrats crazy Nancy Pelosi, the whole thing just boom, boom, boom." Says, "I could stop wars with a telephone call. I could stop wars with a telephone call."

The defense system Reagan wanted ("Remember they called it starship spaceship"), "now we have unbelievable technology. And why should other countries have this and we don't? No, no." Thus the US will have the same defense system as Israel, home-grown: "We're going to build an iron dome over our country and we're going to be sure nothing can come and harm our people. [...] We will replenish our military and build an iron dome missile defense system to ensure that no enemy can strike our homeland. And this great iron dome will be built entirely in the USA. We’re going to build it in USA. And Wisconsin, just like I gave you that massive ship contract, and you’re doing a very nice job, Governor. Right?"
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:21 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

Yeah, I suppose my American naivete leads me to believe this: Trump won in 2016 based on a mixture of racism and sexism and nativism, forces which he will attempt to marshal again against Harris. Yet, perhaps, I hope that there will be a "Have you no decency" moment, where somehow Trump makes an attack that is both so racist and sexist and awful that it breaks the spell. Not for everyone, but for enough people.
Yes, I know it's another case of "Surely This", but as Marquez once wrote, hope is the most terrible of all demons.

One thing I'll point out about Kamala: she grew up in Berkeley, Oakland, and Palo Alto in the 1970s. The last one is the relevant one: Palo Alto was the most segregated city in the Bay Area of California, the political center of the Proposition 14 Measure in 1966 (which helped elect Reagan). It was the city from which we get the case studies that defined the term 'blockbusting'.

Which is to say this: Kamala has been around racism, and specifically that kind of white liberal strain of racism, her entire life. She's not like Hilary Clinton, born to the country clubs; while she may have had Willie Brown as a mentor and patron, she came up in the Alameda County DA's office, during the Wilson years. That's the Pete Wilson years. As a (much younger) JD in California, that tells me she came through in a frought environment- the old Alameda DA's office was not exactly a bastion of progressive values.

So I suppose my point: she's been able to rise despite people like Terrence Hallinan. I think there is some actual merit there, even if she's been a core soldier of the Brown gang (that's Willie Brown). I think she can run circles around Trump, in a debate. Hopefully that's enough.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 2:19 AM on July 22 [18 favorites]

I would add that I think there is more than a non-zero possibility that Michelle Obama steps up to unite the party. I think that is why 44 has not endorsed Harris. He is waiting to see if she can rally, but if she falters, Michelle to the rescue.

My DNC fanfic is that Harris is about to start her acceptance speech, but there is a weird noise. She starts looking around confusedly. The lights start flickering ominously and Undertaker's music starts playing. Smoke fills the arena and the cameras and spotlights all pan over to the entrance. Jim Ross starts blubbering, "could it be? Is it? Ohmagawd it is!" And Michelle Obama swaggers out and down the ramp and the place just goes absolutely apeshit.
posted by Literaryhero at 2:35 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Unlike some commentators I respect, I’m not inclined to shower Biden with praise after his decision today. Instead, I’m more ambivalent. I do give him credit for leaving now instead of prolonging the agony further — I’d figured we were in for a really ugly week for Democratic Party, and today was about the last possible moment at which he could have exited with most of his dignity intact. However, as someone who was early on the Biden skepticism beat, I think Biden should have stepped aside many months ago when there still would have been time to have some semblance of a competitive primary. I think the people who thought it was a good idea to run this version of Biden for another term — from family members like Hunter Biden to strategists like Jen O’Malley Dillon, Mike Donilon and Ron Klain — should be regarded with skepticism and shouldn’t come within 100 miles of the war room of Kamala Harris or whomever else the Democratic nominee turns out to be.

Fair point from Biden and Democrats make the rational choice (emphasis mine)
posted by daveliepmann at 2:41 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

Is the coconut thing not a racial slur? I assumed it was something along the lines of 'oreo'. This might be one of those pleasant surprises I've heard about.

The meme comes from a speech she gave back in 2023.

"Everything is in context," Harris said, before launching into the now-famous anecdote.

"My mother ... would give us a hard time sometimes, and she would say to us, 'I don’t know what’s wrong with you young people. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?' " Harris said with a laugh. "You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you."

If you see coconut on its own it might be a racial slur or it could be someone who doesn't know that the KHive meme is coconut emoji then coconut tree emoji:

🥥 🌴

Also acceptable is "coconutpilled" which is a play on the right-wing misappropriation of being redpilled.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:47 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

I know we Americans love our political dynasties, but Michelle Obama is beloved BECAUSE of her disdain for politics. If it turned out she WANTED to be president I'd trust her less than Hillary Clinton, who at least was always clearly ambitious.

Harris all the way. We are never going to have the perfect candidate. We just need to all agree on somebody Good Enough. This late in the process, unless Taylor Swift mobilized her army, Harris is the only person who makes sense.
posted by rikschell at 2:53 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]

a notorious and wildly popular far-right twitter account recently tweeted "they want this woman to be president" and it's literally just a montage of her laughing

the right is so cooked right now istg. all the shots they're taking at harris are giving serious "tan suit" vibes and i love that for them
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:15 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]

Taylor Swift will surely mobilise her divisions for Harris. The international brigade is already committed.
posted by Klipspringer at 3:16 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

If you have appetite for non-partisan political coverage, the 538 election podcast has a new Biden Drops Out episode.

Topics discussed:
- definitive answer to question "do debates ever matter?"
- continuing trend of democrats favouring electability of candidate ahead of how well candidate reflects their preferred politics
- Ceiling of Biden (low, falling) vs Harris' ceiling (much less certain, more potential upside)
- How easy it is for various potential democratic nominees to access the giant pot of Biden re-election money (easiest for Harris as Biden's VP pick & successor)
- Is it "anti-democratic" for Biden to drop out?
- pretty sure a coconut tree joke was slipped in there somewhere
posted by are-coral-made at 3:18 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

We finally have experimental evidence to either prove or disprove the principle of the Conservation of Joementum.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:22 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

non-partisan political coverage --- makes no sense in the age of Trumpism
posted by mumimor at 3:34 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

It's stupid, but this really gets me excited for the U.S.

For those not into mystery meat links, a short Instagram video where Harris is coming out of a record shop, having purchased...

• Charles Mingus' Let My Children Hear Music
• Roy Ayers' Everybody Loves the Sunshine
• Ella and Louis, Porgy and Bess

The larger point being, I guess, that you don't know what will get people fired up, but seeing that the next POTUS has great taste in music really makes me want to get out there and support her among the jazzbo tribes. I can't imagine Trump listening to anything but recordings of his own voice, maybe layered over lambs screaming, so the idea that somebody with some musical depth might get into the Oval Office is super cool.
posted by Shepherd at 3:41 AM on July 22 [30 favorites]

Slight derail: I haven't seen any mention of this in the thread, but (as far as I can tell) Biden's announcement was done on X first. No press release, no televised address, but an announcement on Elon Musk's social media platform. I greatly dislike Musk, but I have always been bullish on Twitter/X (and I thought the comments on MF that Twitter would crash and burn under his ownership wildly overstated) because it remains one of the central platforms institutions communicate on nowadays.

When the President wished to communicate a monumental decision to suspend his campaign for reelection, he did so on X. That's something.
posted by fortitude25 at 3:58 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

to be less glib than i've been so far in this thread:

i am trans, and have many trans friends in the states. believe me when i say we are all aware of what's at stake in this election. in my own sample size (admittedly not scientific) many trans folks were genuinely terrified of the prospect of trump v biden. i mean you can say "vote blue no matter who" until you're, well, blue in the face, and repeat that biden's chances are only as good as how many people hold their noses and vote for him anyway, but the reality is "he's not the other guy" can only get you so far in terms of votes (and i'm aware of the good side of biden's tenure so don't @ me). i'm just reporting the sentiment i saw across my community. a lot of my trans friends were fervently posting fundraising links to move to bluer states, if not to get out of the country altogether

but last night, something shifted. suddenly, there is a feeling of hope. fueled in part by the apoplectic panic of the right, the swift wave of support for harris, and shockingly large amounts of money raised in small donations already, but more than anything else: that this woman stands the best chance of resoundingly defeating trump

we are aware that there's a rocky road ahead on the path to victory, and that the candidate herself is not above criticism, even in the realm of trans issues. but for the first time in far too many years, there is the sense among trans people that maybe, just maybe, we actually can pull this vessel away from the rocks. and if that happens, then the real work can finally begin

i realise we're a tiny part of the electorate and we're quite used to having no influence whatsoever in terms of policy, but the sigh of relief i felt was palpable. and i think if some of the most vulnerable folks among us are feeling more confident, that speaks volumes in itself
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:06 AM on July 22 [55 favorites]

It was pleasant to wake up this morning to news of focused solidarity behind Harris and seeing the sheer number of small donor contributions making up the majority of those millions raised.

I hope this also signals the Democrats finally realizing the race was never about winning over Trump voters as it was getting progressives and the left to mobilize in significant numbers to GOTV. Trumps base is all he has for enthusiasm and listening to the Behind the Bastards folks that were on the ground at the RNC all last week, there's not as many of them as you think there are. So much of their campaign was about suppressing the vote through political means, fascist intimidation, and posturing like they've already won. Keep the numbers now and the gerrymandering does the work for them.

Also hoping for Mark Kelly as VP pick - having a literal astronaut go up against the Peter Thiel sock puppet in debates would make me want to watch it.
posted by mrzarquon at 4:08 AM on July 22 [21 favorites]

Mod note: Several comments deleted. Please don't make things about a particular community member or their views or telling others to STFU. If the latter continues, that's a potentially bannable offense, so please do not continue doing that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:33 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

When the President wished to communicate a monumental decision to suspend his campaign for reelection, he did so on X. That's something.

i'm not on that platform anymore but from what i saw in screenshots the reaction from musk has been some real "do not put it in the papers that i am mad" energy

kinda wild though that the owner of a social media platform catering to millions is now openly, brazenly using the platform to endorse his personal favourite candidate, not just through posting but literally changing the platform design. real blood in the water moment
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:34 AM on July 22 [10 favorites]

Here to ask: why the fuck has Obama not endorsed Harris yet? I can only hope and pray this is some kind of ploy to draw out suspense and speculation before he comes blazing in dramatically to support her after all but fuck THAT shit, amirite? This is not the time nor circumstance to fray our nerves and sow even an imaginary semblance of discord! This is the time for fucking unity, to present a faultless bulwark of support for Harris.

I continue to be beyond disappointed in 44 ever since he left office, and this is the latest in a long *long* list of his inadequacies as elder statesman to this country.
posted by MiraK at 4:37 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Obama is one of the few uncomplicatedly popular Democratic faces on the national stage. If he announced last night it would be a non-story. If he does it in a few days or a week he earns a positive news cycle.

I have my complaints about his politics but the simplest explanation is good political instincts to avoid getting the story buried.
posted by daveliepmann at 4:41 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

It kind of should be buried. Obama endorsing her should be obvious, so obvious that it's a non-story. I'm not sure a big photo-op moment would even be good for her. It's time to move forward. Barack Obama is yesterday, baby!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:46 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

That, and Obama was one of the folks calling for some kind of contested convention process. He, Pelosi, Schumer, and Hakeem Jeffries kind of stick out right now as non-endorsers. Obama and Pelosi had both made statements favoring some kind of open convention process.

My guess is that Biden's withdrawal notice and rapid endorsement of Harris was not part of whatever vague plan that senior Democratic Party leadership had in mind. But if anyone was aiming to put in anyone else, it's probably not going to work at this point.
posted by kewb at 4:55 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

Here to ask: why the fuck has Obama not endorsed Harris yet? I can only hope and pray this is some kind of ploy to draw out suspense and speculation before he comes blazing in dramatically to support her after all but fuck THAT shit, amirite? This is not the time nor circumstance to fray our nerves and sow even an imaginary semblance of discord! This is the time for fucking unity, to present a faultless bulwark of support for Harris.

It hasn't even been 24 hours since Biden dropped out, and he dropped out on a Sunday. It's entirely possible that Obama was mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters or something, and didn't find out about the news until later in the afternoon, and he's been up all night drafting a carefully-worded letter that's scheduled to drop at 9 this morning.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:10 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

Even if everyone in the party wanted to back Harris now, maybe there is some benefit to having senior leaders ostensibly open to other candidates if the people want that. If they can get the alternative clients to not run, then they can say they were open to alternatives, but then support Harris.
posted by snofoam at 5:11 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

Get LeVar Burton. "We need to write the next chapter of this nation's story, and we need to do it together. When your kids and your grandchildren read about this time in history, you can say that you were there, and that you helped change the world for the better. "
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:13 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]

It's entirely possible that Obama was mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters or something, and didn't find out about the news until later in the afternoon

I kinda assumed that Obama has had Biden in a virtual headlock since Friday trying to knock some sense into him.
posted by Optamystic at 5:13 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

10:04 PM EST: There are 7000+ Black women on a Zoom call right now organizing for Kamala. And that's just *one* community she's connected with. Understand that folks aren't giving in to the inevitability of a Trump takeover.

10:38 PM EST: 34,000+ people are on this Zoom now. On a Sunday night before work. Wait until these women go out into their communities and organize voters.

Let's be extremely real for a moment, this shit was not gonna happen for Biden.

It already did. Last week the suburban-mom group Red Wine and Blue had an organizing call/pep rally on Zoom featuring historian and ultra nerd freedom fighter Heather Cox Richardson that had over 30,000 people on the line, predominantly women.

This is not to downplay the fantastic energy coalescing around Harris, nor the enthusiasm and organizing might of Black women. More to say that women are going to a massive force this election season.
posted by Sublimity at 5:13 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]

I caught up with the thread and my other reading this morning and realized, for the first time in...days? weeks? much longer? I can think of this race without that certain fizzy dread that makes me feel lightheaded and disconnected from the world. I feel a little bit normal today, catching up.

I am glad of a few things. Here on Metafilter, I am glad that Biden critics can feel free to criticize his record without being met with "but you're throwing the election to Trump if you make a bad comment!" Better to meet that criticism with what one likes about Biden's record. It's a healthier response and I'm happy to see that. My own feeling (industrial policy - good! student loan forgiveness - marvelous and impactful for me personally! palestine - red line against voting for you!) has been complicated and I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore this election season.

I am pleased by the energy--the little bit of chaos--the fun of thinking about outcomes that aren't universally dreary! I don't have to worry about another Trump/Biden debate. No more interviews where I have to say, "Well, he clearly knows what he's talking about, he just can't get it out in a fast/clear way." Although Harris is known for some...ah...indirect statements? Some twisted grammar? So that should provide a little suspense.

I am even more pleased that this just seems like a fait accompli. The worry that the Democrats would push for a wide-open convention where the winner would be some white guy nobody ever heard of outside his own state...yikes. This is a great time to defeat the Dems in Disarray narrative: At a moment when the presumed candidate made a move nobody could have foreseen, the party got directly in line. That's good. That's the kind of discipline it's going to take to beat those weirdos who stood at the RNC sobbing over their love of Trump.

So, this doomer is feeling a little less doomy. Now I'm going to unplug my modem and throw it out the window so I can't receive any news that might contradict the mood today.
posted by mittens at 5:17 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

It's entirely possible that Obama was mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters or something, and didn't find out about the news until later in the afternoon, and he's been up all night drafting a carefully-worded letter that's scheduled to drop at 9 this morning.

obama made a statement yesterday heartily praising biden and making intimations about an open convention. if he wanted to include a harris endorsement he would have

personally think the obama endorsement is neither here nor there though tbh
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:17 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

A guide to the coming attacks on Kamala Harris (Judd Legum's Popular Information)
posted by box at 5:19 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

This is an observation from someone outside the USA but who follows US and international politics with a lot of interest.

The clear impression I get is that there are a lot of US voters - many of whom would normally support the Democrats - who for one reason or another have been lead to believe that any stance short of wholehearted and uncritical political and military support for Israel is tantamount to giving the go-ahead for the resumption of the Holocaust.

As a consequence - and I am very ready to be corrected if I am wrong - is it not the case that Harris faces the following dilemma:

If she does not adopt a position of cutting of weapon supplies to Israel, she risks losing votes from a subset of Democrats, who will likely not then vote for either main candidate.

If she does adopt a position of cutting weapon supplies to Israel, she risks losing votes from a different subset of Democrats, in the group of voters I refer to, who are then likely to vote for Trump.
posted by Major Clanger at 5:20 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

One of the GOP talking points is that this is a ‘coup’ (which, if it gets traction, helps deflect on the issue of the actual coup attempt of Jan 6).

Having the most prominent senior party leaders rush to endorse would just be playing into that narrative. Far better to sit back, seem neutral, and then abide by and support the overwhelming choice of the rest of the party.
posted by BlueDuke at 5:22 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

On the other hand, The Kamala Harris Juggernaut (Politico Playbook)

Harris spent the rest of Sunday at home with family and staff in the vice president’s mansion in her Howard University hoodie and sweats grinding through calls to over 100 Democratic leaders over the course of 10 hours. The speedy, unglamorous work seems to have scared most of the potential challengers out of the race. We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

Meanwhile, what is now the Harris for President campaign took in $49.6 million in grassroots donations since yesterday’s announcement, according to campaign spokesperson Lauren Hitt. That includes the proceeds from ActBlue’s biggest fundraising day of the 2024 cycle.

posted by box at 5:27 AM on July 22 [14 favorites]

As a consequence - and I am very ready to be corrected if I am wrong - is it not the case that Harris faces the following dilemma:...

Speaking as another outsider, UK Labour managed to hold a position closer to Biden than to Harris (in the various insider pieces so far), and so still managed....?

Anyway, Obama probably didn't manage to put out an endorsement because he's probably busy with the same lawn mower Biden must be using as well, since his announcement was basically a Twitter exclusive for hours and hours, despite having an entire (White) House to sort out the comms. Eh, it's Sunday.
posted by cendawanita at 5:28 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

It just makes sense for the biggest party leaders to mainly sit out the endorsements. Their endorsements aren't needed really, and showing that they're open to other members trying to make the case for themselves is helpful for a lot of reasons, like cultivating relationships with eager rising talent, making all the party members feel heard, making this unprecedented situation feel a little more by the books and under control, blunting criticism that Harris is being pushed by leadership, etc. And Obama in particular is hesitant to put his thumb on the scale in a lot of ways with his unique position.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:30 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

One of the GOP talking points is that this is a ‘coup’ (which, if it gets traction, helps deflect on the issue of the actual coup attempt of Jan 6).

So... They're saying Kamala Harris can successfully execute a coup? Then it's just professional jealousy.
posted by cendawanita at 5:33 AM on July 22 [57 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

Anchovies? Kinda divisive choice there, K. So much for unifying the coalition!
posted by jackbishop at 5:35 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

Tired of these boring, non political points that ignore the question of whether it was the very right and delicious thin crust or one of the thicker abominations. WHERE IS YOUR BREAKING NEWS NOW, CNN?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:35 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

oh great, here come the thin crust truthers
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:38 AM on July 22 [28 favorites]

and I really REALLY wish that if he was going to drop out he'd done it sooner. Because JFC this is leaving us a bit short on time

I'm pushing back on this whenever someone I know says this. We have been conditioned to think elections should take years when in fact all it does it create an environment ripe for political mudslinging as each goes after the other ad nauseum.

Three months is PLENTY of time to get out in front of the country, state your policy agenda and shmooze the donors. Or at least it should be.

When there are only two to choose from, I can make a decision very quickly.
posted by archimago at 5:39 AM on July 22 [41 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies

What exactly was she discussing with these anchovies hmmm? [plot thickens]
posted by mazola at 5:43 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

> Three months is PLENTY of time

The mere six weeks of it we get in the UK honestly feels like too much. The way the US political system spends more than half its time (between presidentials and mid-terms) campaigning for the next election cycle is actually insane.
posted by parm at 5:44 AM on July 22 [68 favorites]

The attacks I heard from Republicans interviewed in the hours of "special coverage" on NPR yesterday were "Kamala owns everything Biden did too" (yes, this is also what she is saying) and "She was part of the cover up about his condition." (it would be pretty self serving for the VP to say the president was unfit, even if it were true.)

The "guide to coming attacks" above seems to be mostly about stuff Republicans just made up? They've really got nothing? That's astonishing.

I am a little worried about actual attacks, with weapons. Someone maybe looking for revenge after the attempt on Trump. I think Harrris must be an incredibly brave woman to take this on.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:44 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

France managed to call for, hold, and surprise the world's media with results in less time than it took to run the Tour de France.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:45 AM on July 22 [21 favorites]

Yeah, American elections are just nightmarishly drawn-out. Pure psychological torture. There is no reason an election should take more than a couple months, tops.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:45 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

for the sake of my mental health and my social media feeds i would personally be ok with us presidential election season beginning and ending during lunch on a tuesday
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:47 AM on July 22 [14 favorites]

Corey Lewandowski was being interviewed on the BBC's World at One on Radio 4 twenty minutes ago, denying that age is any sort of relevant factor in considering Trump's fitness for office.
posted by rory at 5:47 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

"She was part of the cover up about his condition." (it would be pretty self serving for the VP to say the president was unfit, even if it were true.)

That's such an easy one to counter, too:

"He is still capable and would be a great President for four more years, but he was selfless enough to swallow his own pride so that a baseless media narrative didn't drag down his party. Next question."
posted by jason_steakums at 5:47 AM on July 22 [28 favorites]

Manchin says he wouldn’t serve as Harris VP [The Hill].

Noted?
posted by mazola at 5:50 AM on July 22 [36 favorites]

He needs to have a severe Trump moment.

How much more severe would it have to get?! Short of him actually doing (redacted), the man continues to be stupid and singing the praises of Hannibal Lecter and nobody's even fazed any more. I'm not even sure if going full Greg Stilson would be enough.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:50 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

As a consequence - and I am very ready to be corrected if I am wrong - is it not the case that Harris faces the following dilemma:

If she does not adopt a position of cutting of weapon supplies to Israel, she risks losing votes from a subset of Democrats, who will likely not then vote for either main candidate.

If she does adopt a position of cutting weapon supplies to Israel, she risks losing votes from a different subset of Democrats, in the group of voters I refer to, who are then likely to vote for Trump.

The same dilemma that Biden faced and still faces, yes. As the lame-duck POTUS, he will be fielding questions as to how the US responds to Israel -- Harris isn't calling those shots YET -- and I would be gobsmacked if she expressed some new strong and varying preference either way on the campaign trail. We support President Biden in his efforts to reach a diplomatic solution to this horrible situation, my advisors and I are studying the situation carefully, harumph harumph harumph.

Which is unsatisfying for those who desire either a full-throated condemnation of Bibi and his Gaza genocide or a full-throated endorsement of such, but is also probably necessary in realpolitik terms.
posted by delfin at 5:53 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

Fox News busily preparing to make this her "Dijon mustard on a burger" moment.
posted by haileris23 at 6:03 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

It's a NYT article, but Glenn Thrush takes a stab at the "why hasn't Obama endorsed Harris" question with an article titled…"Why Obama Hasn’t Endorsed Harris"

[P]eople close to Mr. Obama, who has positioned himself as an impartial elder statesman above intraparty machinations, said not to read too much into it — and had no alternate candidate in mind when he made the decision not to immediately endorse Ms. Harris.

Mr. Obama adopted an identical stance four years ago when Mr. Biden’s aides pressured him to endorse early in the Democratic primaries before Senator Bernie Sanders dropped out. (Mr. Obama’s favored phrase back then was “I don’t want to thumb the scale.”) Endorsing too early now would also be a political mistake — fueling criticism that Ms. Harris’s nomination, should it come, was a coronation rather than the best possible consensus under rushed circumstances, they said.

Instead, Mr. Obama sees his role as helping to quickly “unite the party once we have a nominee,” a person familiar with his thinking said.

But there are other more personal considerations, exacerbating Mr. Obama’s innate caution.

Mr. Biden is a deeply prideful man, and he has never fully forgiven Mr. Obama for quietly backing former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in the 2016 campaign. Mr. Biden still believes he could have beaten former President Donald J. Trump that year if given the chance. Nor was Mr. Biden pleased when Mr. Obama told him that he should consider sitting out 2020, too, people in his circle have said.

Mr. Obama wanted Sunday to be about Mr. Biden, a celebration of his accomplishments — and does not feel pressured to act hastily, according to a former White House official who speaks with the former president regularly.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:05 AM on July 22 [27 favorites]

I was taken aback when I saw that Biden had decided not to seek re-election. I did not think it was at all a good idea for an 81-year-old president who is showing some signs of mental decline to seek a second term, but I also thought that the risks of him stepping down were potentially even greater, that perhaps it was simply too late in the process to replace him on the ticket.

But then he did pass the torch, and honestly it was a huge relief. Now, instead of feeling sick dread over two possible outcomes, there's a sense of hope, and signs that the reins have been taken into capable, energetic hands. Harris is charging out the gate, and Democratic officials are largely and firmly aligning themselves behind her.

I think the presidential nominee will have to be Harris: she polls the best, she's positioned the best, she's the most experienced candidate, she is a stellar candidate in many respects. There are things I don't like about Harris's record, but then there were things I didn't like about Biden's, and he turned out to be a much better president that I expected. And of course almost anyone is better than TFG, and Harris is particular is immeasurably better than that travesty of a human being. This is a positive turn of events, people. Not perfect, but good, and there's so much reason for hope here.

The question of who will be the VP is intriguing. Pete Buttigieg seems like the most likely pick, or Mark Kelly. I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the slot, but they should probably go with someone younger. Harris and AOC would be one hell of a ticket, but that seems like a long shot. (AOC is still quite young, and her time will come.)

The sad, toothless response from the Republican side is amusing me no end, including TFG's whining that he wasted time and money campaigning against Biden (who wants to bet he'll keep rabbiting on and on about that), and that all their focus on how Biden was too old and demented to be running can now be used against them, heh.
posted by orange swan at 6:08 AM on July 22 [17 favorites]

The question of who will be the VP is intriguing. Pete Buttigieg seems like the most likely pick, or Mark Kelly. I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the slot, but they should probably go with someone younger. Harris and AOC would be one hell of a ticket, but that seems like a long shot.

ready to end several tenuous friendships with "here's how jeb can still win"
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:11 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

OPINION COLUMNIST FREAKS: the DNC canNOT be a coronation. Instead, Pitbull and Chef Bobby Flay will lead candidates on a Kitchen Showdown that w

VOTERS: whose the fucking nominee. who is it. just tell us who it fucking is. it's Kamala? terrific, here is forty six million dollars
posted by soundguy99 at 6:12 AM on July 22 [76 favorites]

Trump continues his fan-fiction about still running against Biden on Truth Social:

It’s a new day and Joe Biden doesn’t remember quitting the race yesterday! He is demanding his campaign schedule and arranging talks with Presidents Xi of China, and Putin of Russia, concerning the possible start of World War 3. Biden is “sharp, decisive, energetic, angry, and ready to go!”

Somehow he's completely forgetting to campaign against Harris.
posted by mmoncur at 6:14 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

Joe Manchin: "I'm the most useless senator in America, an anti-labor former Democrat from West Virginia, and I've done nothing in office but enrich my personal brand. Why are any of you assholes still listening to me?" (fake)
posted by box at 6:16 AM on July 22 [14 favorites]

AOC

I'm a broken record on this because it's important: AOC is a terrible fit for the presidency. I love her politics but it should be obvious that most of America doesn't. Her best role in American democracy is the Blue Lion of Congress, doing the hard work of getting leftist legislation passed for decades and decades. An AOC presidential campaign would force her to the right and be a long shot at best. The presidency would be a waste of her talents and I wish we'd all stop talking about such a silly notion. I want her to be the Senator from New York for fifty years, not an ineffective president for four.
posted by daveliepmann at 6:17 AM on July 22 [82 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

She likes jazz, and now anchovies?

That's it. I'm writing in the Monster Raving Loony Party on my ballot.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:22 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

Not for nothing, it's kinda fun to imagine what Hannibal Lecter would think of his biggest fan; I'm pretty sure Doctor Lecter would find Donald Trump gauche beyond belief, lol.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:24 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

The news that she’s out raised all the contributions of the donors that were holding back should tell Democrats a thing or too as well.
posted by Artw at 6:26 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]

I'd REALLY like to hope that the Democrats aren't self defeating enough to make someone other than Harris the nominee. And I really hope they get it done quick to wrap up and avoid some of the potential lawsuits.

I'm somewhat hopeful because so far every headline is either explicitly or implicitly framing Harris as the nominee and only a few also ran, under the fold, stories are talking about donors or whoever demanding we shoot ourselves in the foot by pissing off every Black person and woman in the Democratic Party by forcing Harris out and some (as yet unnamed) white guy in.

Preception is, to an extent, reality, and the more Harris is seen as the nominee the harder it makes for those defeat craving losers to screw things up.

As far as Gaza goes, even silence would get her more support among the single issue Gaza voters than Biden's full throated love of genocide got him. It'd be BETTER if she could make even a tepid "it's better to obey the law" sort of statement, but I doubt anyone who's single issue on Gaza is eager to vote Trump, they're probably desperate to find any possible reason not to.
posted by sotonohito at 6:28 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

It’s been a while since we had a proper U.S. politics megathread.

Anyone seen Tehund?
posted by notyou at 6:35 AM on July 22 [43 favorites]

We’re told she dined on pizza with anchovies for dinner.

HOLY SHIT KAMALA IS MY PEOPLE !!!!

(there are dozens of us.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:38 AM on July 22 [30 favorites]

"single-issue Gaza voter" is nasty; the name of the country in which US-backed mass murder, forced displacement, destruction of physical and social infrastructure, etc. is taking place is "Palestine", and it is especially suspect when people elide that by e.g. saying "the thing in Gaza" or even the "genocide in Gaza" without naming the nation of which it is a part, given the history of denial of the existence of a distinct Palestinian nation and people.

i don't even need Harris to say anything, at this point i'd settle for any kind of reassurance that the non-fascist segment of the american voting public takes the consequences of electoral outcomes seriously; all of the consequences, not just the worst possible ones. because right now y'all are speculating about celebrity gossip at a funeral and it offers no reassurance that the parts of the public that actually try to put all the "it's easier to organise under a democratic administration than a fascist one" rhetoric into actual practice aren't just going to be met with more tear gas and 24-hour wall-to-wall slander.
posted by busted_crayons at 6:42 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

Manchin now on team “mini primary”

That all the worst assholes in the Dem sphere have now pivoted to “okay but not Kamala” is heartening as well. If they’d pushed Biden out and were happy with the result I’d probably feel differently.
posted by Artw at 6:42 AM on July 22 [14 favorites]

As far as Gaza goes, even silence would get her more support among the single issue Gaza voters than Biden's full throated love of genocide got him.

well we've got the former US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman calling Harris "the progressive fringe" and Times of Israel says her sympathies are more towards Palestine than Biden's--and that's based on things she has said prior to this moment, like "Palestinians should be able to eat"

like she is definitely better than Biden on Palestine for sure and the criticisms of her coming from these sources maybe helps her amongst those who oppose this ongoing genocide. i mean i know what i'm getting into through this vote and make no illusions but that's where i'm at at least
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:46 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

Yeah but the freaks talk like that about Biden and he’s given them nothing but total crawling obedience.
posted by Artw at 6:47 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

that is true; even the former ambassador says biden has made "many mistakes" wrt support for israel, like total crawling obedience is exactly what they want

i just think harris having even a slightly more humane stance will do more to help than hurt
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:50 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

oh man the find out portion about gaza is going to be insane here
posted by lescour at 6:51 AM on July 22

Not for nothing, it's kinda fun to imagine what Hannibal Lecter would think of his biggest fan; I'm pretty sure Doctor Lecter would find Donald Trump gauche beyond belief, lol.


"Never thought Lecter would eat my face, says member of Lecter Eating People's Faces Party"
posted by condour75 at 6:52 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

(there are dozens of us.)

DOZENS!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:55 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

> former US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman calling Harris "the progressive fringe" and Times of Israel says her sympathies are more towards Palestine than Biden's

I suspect that the crowd providing cover for genocide has decided to try to put her on the back foot to try and secure concessions.

I plead with everyone here that's spending their time arguing with people losing loved ones in Palestine to go argue with people you know who are staunchly in support of the IDF, instead. That's what I'm doing by engaging here.
posted by constraint at 6:56 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

"Never thought Lecter would eat my face, says member of Lecter Eating People's Faces Party"

Presumably what they said sounded more like "hevva haught ecter hood heat hy hace"
posted by Merus at 6:58 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

It's funny -- I celebrated this morning by making myself a pizza with anchovies for breakfast. I had a dough because I was going to bake a loaf of bread, and who doesn't have some tomato and some anchovies at any time.
posted by mumimor at 6:59 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

"single-issue Gaza voter" is nasty; the name of the country in which US-backed mass murder, forced displacement, destruction of physical and social infrastructure, etc. is taking place is "Palestine", and it is especially suspect

Oh gods just don't vote for her, then, but let the rest of us get to electing her. 90%+ of Americans either don't view it as a top ten issue, or view it as a decades-long intractable conflict between religious extremists, and of the ones who care, at least half of them are on the other side. There's no universe in which ANY nominee will do what you want, because it would lose net votes. Everything you say is making it more likely that Trump will be elected, and that means murdering ALL the Gazans and turning the strip into Jared Kushner's beach resort. SMH.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:00 AM on July 22 [24 favorites]

pretty sure busted_crayons has said several times now that they are voting harris. i think it's still ok to hold candidates to a standard and question their positions on things.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:01 AM on July 22 [21 favorites]

outgrown_hobnail, that seems to be an entire misreading of that comment.
posted by sagc at 7:02 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]

Most Americans support a ceasefire, so I don't think there's much voter traction against Harris on this issue. The problem is AIPAC. But my feeling is that Biden is personally in the tank for Netanyahu - it's not just the usual US support for Israel or the usual US indifference to suffering or the usual American anti-Arab racism. So I'm letting myself hope that Harris will be at least a little better on this, at least not committed in the same way. I know that she's taken money from AIPAC, but almost all politicians have.

It has been ten months. It would not be anything even approaching a radical position to say, "that's it, you've had your bombs, we're not bankrolling this anymore". That would in fact be a relatively normal American position, from the usual standpoint of "it is not in American interests to completely destabilize the Middle East".

In re former US Ambassador and the Times of Israel, what are they going to say? "Follow your conscience, Kamala"? They're going to bloviate and make excuses in the hopes of making gains. They don't have any actual power if the United States decides they don't.
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on July 22 [24 favorites]

Harris has a long hard road to victory. Sure, she is younger and more coherent, but she is saddled with the Biden track record and the Biden policies. I get that this administration has done some terrific things. I get that she is not Trump. If you look at the polling she has 2 major problems. One, her favorable is just 38% compared to Biden's 37%. Two, the swing states are starting to reject the Biden policies of the open border, the spending causing inflation, the energy policies leading to higher gas prices and higher electric bills, etc.

There is no open border. The Border Patrol exists and does its job. There’s a process for applying for asylum if needed, as there should be. Trump’s policy of heartlessly separating immigrant children from their families without keeping a record of who belongs to who is over, but that doesn’t mean “open borders.” And, sure, government spending probably caused inflation to be a tiny bit higher—temporarily—than in other nations, but it also gave a the best recovery from the COVID recession in the entire world, with full employment and rising wages. A temporary inflation bump is a small price to pay for the upsides to Bidenomics. And I don’t even know what you mean by higher gas prices. I paid $2.97 a gallon yesterday. That’s not particularly high. Gas prices are similar to what they were a decade ago. Higher than when the economy collapsed under Trump, of course, but that’s not a bad thing.

If those are the big criticisms of Biden/Harris then that’s saying something.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:05 AM on July 22 [40 favorites]

fucking amazing that the response they have gotten till this point has emboldened them to this degree. They should be begging us not to bomb them like a bunch of 1990s Serbs.
posted by Artw at 7:05 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

i mean i get why the ambassador said those things. they are trying to backfoot her and have always pushed for total obedience. what i'm saying is their underlining of her more-humane-than-biden position on this will help more than hurt (with voters; good point about aipac but again, they also require nothing less than total obedience)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:06 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

-- with people you know who are staunchly in support of the IDF, instead. That's what I'm doing by engaging here.

You've twigged onto my Palestine objective!

given the history of denial of the existence of a distinct Palestinian nation and people.

Exactly. And it's a right and a status, that, as far as ICJ is concerned, is a guaranteed one that demands actualization without having to be patronized by negotiations eg the Oslo frameworks. To which, I can only applaud Tim Kaine for his public statement.

And talking just about Gaza pretends Palestinians in the West Bank haven't been as terrorized and killed, again with American backing, or even the Palestinians of East Jerusalem and need I remind people here Biden has NEVER walked back on the Trump decision to have the US recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel (unilaterally)? And again, as far as the ICJ is concerned these are not separate areas but an entire contiguous territory that is called Palestine.

And it isn't like Palestine is that far away, the entire infrastructure of what is now known as Cop City owes very much to how Israel has policed Palestine! It's not even a metaphorical imperial boomerang - Americans are in active harm in large part because of this continual and dishonest presentation that Palestine is a distinct and far away issue. Look, Indonesian military terrorizing Papuans doesn't get transferred into the NYPD etc training books (and in fact usually the other way around).
posted by cendawanita at 7:06 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

Fun facts about convicted felon and Republican nominee Donald John Trump!

Trump is the oldest pedophile to be the Presidential nominee in any US election.

Trump is the oldest felon to be the Presidential nominee in any US election.

Trump is the oldest morbidly obese man to be the Presidential nominee in any US election.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election who lied about paying a porn star for sex.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US eleciton to steal classified documents and hide them from the FBI.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to be brought to court for running a racist apartment complex.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have been so incompetent he lost mone running a casino.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have settled a lawsuit for running a fake college.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to be married to an illegal immigrant.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to cheat at golf.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have had actual neo-Nazis on his staff.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to quote Hitler in his speeches.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to brag about committing sexual assault.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to run beauty pagents so he could peep on the contestants as they changed.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to talk about how much he wants to fuck his daughter.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have his penis described as looking like Toad from Super Mario Bros.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to say he fell in love with a third world dictator.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to be married three times and to have cheated on all three wives.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to wear a really ugly comb over.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to want to surrender to Russia.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election who paid for an abortion but claims abortion is wrong.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to use tear gas to drive a pastor and congregation out of a church so he could have a photo op where he held the Bible upside down.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election who tried to overthrow democracy and become a dictator.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have a sex worker say he lies about how big his penis is.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have been found guilty of rape.

Trump is the oldest Presidential nominee in any US election to have been caught going on trips with Epstein to rape underage girls.

busted_crayons I'm not trying to minimize or be dismissive here at all. I am 100% opposed to, and have been doing what little I can to oppose, Israel's genocide in Gaza.

When it comes to actual electoral behavior to the best of my knowledge "single issue voter" is not an insult and it is an accurate description for those who find Biden's sycophantic cheerleading for Israel's genocide to be the deciding factor in their vote. I'm specifically thinking of the many Muslim and Palestinian voters in Michigan who are on record as saying that they hate and fear Trump but see him as the lesser of two evils when compared to Biden due to Biden's support of genocide in Gaza.

I didn't think it was insulting or minimizing to describe that as single issue Gaza voting. Obviously that was mistaken, and I apologize. I'll use different language from now on.

Frowner While I'm as concerned about AIPAC's corrosive influence on US politics as most lefties, I'm not at all sure that AIPAC is even particularly influential on Biden's love of killing Palestinian babies. He seems by all accounts to just really, personally, viscerally, HATE Palestinians and see them as non- or sub- human. He's not stupid, he knows his love of genocide in Gaza was hurting his reeletion chances, and he kept doing it anyway.

Most of the Jewish vote is locked in for Democrats more or less regardless, and further it's mostly concentrated in areas that are going to go Democratic no matter what. The Jewish voters who are Republican are also locked in and mostly scattered so thinly they aren't a signfiicant force in electoral politics except on a small local level.

From a pure electoral calculus standpoint there's no real threat of a Democratic nominee losing any significan number of Jewish voters simply by opposing the genocide. His decision to keep supporting it must, therefore, be personal rather than cold blooded politics.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]

(also, I'd vote for anyone but trump if I could, but nearly ten months into the genocide, just shelve the argument that he will flatten Gaza. The only buildings left standing are few and far between. That's on Biden - the longest incursion before 2024 was about 50 days.)
posted by cendawanita at 7:10 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

Oh gods just don't vote for her, then, but let the rest of us get to electing her. 90%+ of Americans either don't view it as a top ten issue, or view it as a decades-long intractable conflict between religious extremists, and of the ones who care, at least half of them are on the other side.

Yes, Americans have a long history if indifference to or enthusiasm for genocide. And of course people are scared of Trump and feel anything else is a distraction. And that is something I can empathize with.

But I really think it is a mistake to sacrifice fundamental moral principles because considering them is uncomfortable right now. If the annihilation of a people means nothing to us, the destruction of every university and hospital in a nation, children starving and innocents slaughtered by weapons built and given by the US. If we are okay with that, what is left? What separates us from the Republicans ghouls presiding over the rape and torture in Chile? Or the Americans that turned Jewish refugees back to die in the Holocaust?

We need to win in November, but we must not sacrifice innocent people and our own moral dignity to do it, no matter how frightened we are.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:11 AM on July 22 [17 favorites]

There is no open border. The Border Patrol exists and does its job.

I mean, here in Pennsylvania, Bob Casey is running ads about how he voted for stronger border protections and for a stronger border bill and for more Border Patrol agents and whatnot -- and he's the DEMOCRATIC INCUMBENT. He is also pointing out that Republicans voted that bill DOWN, a bill that was largely crafted by one of their own, because Trump demanded it.

There will always be people who claim that Biden deliberately threw all of the gates wide open and that trillions of migrants are pouring over the border in waves to steal all our jobs and murder us all in our beds. These people are called "people who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 and will again in 2024." Harris can, if she chooses to, apply enough political judo to largely defang this issue for those who are not already her sworn enemy.
posted by delfin at 7:12 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

On non-preview...

ithe swing states are starting to reject the Biden policies of the open border

What the actual fuck?

Is the Republican Big Lie so widespread that even here on MeFi there are people who actually seem to uncritically accept that Biden, of all people, is operating an "open border" policy?

JFC.

Biden, and the Democrats in general, are absolute nightmares of racist bullshit enforcing awfulness on the border. In fact, Biden is about equal with Trump in terms of number of deportations, and he didn't make any really significant changes in any of Trump's godawful border policies.

He's still tossing kids in cages, separating families, requireing four year old children to represent themselves before racist ass judges, and pursuing a policy of closed borders coupled with a racist immigration system that started in the 1920's with the explicitly stated goal of keeping America white.

From any humanitarian or even just not entirely evil standpoint the Democrats are very close to being exactly as bad as the Republicans in terms of border policy.

"Open borders" is what I WISH America's policy was, and would look nothing even slightly like what we have today. Among other things, with a truly open borders policy then CBP would be abolished not expanded.

Open borders would have a process that looked something like this:

Immigrant: Hi I'd like to move to America and work.

Border official: Sure thing, let me check to make sure you're not wanted for any crimes we care about. Nope, you're good. Here's your resident alien ID, welcome to America.

You may note that our current policy does not resemble that in any way at all. So please stop using Republican lying language and calling our closed, racist, border policy open.
posted by sotonohito at 7:16 AM on July 22 [67 favorites]

And I don’t even know what you mean by higher gas prices. I paid $2.97 a gallon yesterday. That’s not particularly high.

It's like $4.50 in Chicago and rising. I know we usually have high prices but...it feeeeeels high. Partly due to recent storms. Combined with groceries being astronomical, it's a pinch.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:18 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

The border, like crime, is vibes and it is a mistake to think you can compete on the material reality of it.

Racist vibes too.
posted by Artw at 7:19 AM on July 22 [33 favorites]

Biden Finally Got Border Numbers Down. Will He Harris See the Political Benefits?
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:20 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

Did you know there is a daily favorite limit on MetaFilter? Apparently there have been a lot of solid takes in the last 24 hours.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:20 AM on July 22 [18 favorites]

yeah "open borders", calling human beings seeking a better life "illegals", all that shit is also absolutely on dems as much as it is on republicans. maybe i'm naive but it would be really great to see any kind of pushback against that instead of, yet again, playing by the rules that the farthest right has written
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:20 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]

Did you know there is a daily favorite limit on MetaFilter?

Information for your next MetaFilter trivia night: A user can add up to 240 favorites per day.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]

I'm specifically thinking of the many Muslim and Palestinian voters in Michigan who are on record as saying that they hate and fear Trump but see him as the lesser of two evils when compared to Biden due to Biden's support of genocide in Gaza.

This is what I don't get. I get hating Biden for his ME policies, but I do not get how anyone imagines a Trump administration would do better. I'm pretty damn sure that the events that led to the current situation grew out of Trump's ME policy, which Biden should obviously have ended right away. But as you all say and I agree with, the political establishment in the US has some very fixed ideas about the Israel/Palestine situation and the Middle East in general and they are not about to change them. In another thread, I noted that Obama tried, but couldn't. I hope Harris is more succesful, but I doubt it.

Also, Trump would encourage Putin's plan for another genocide in Ukraine.
posted by mumimor at 7:27 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]

~ waits anxiously to see which redder-than-red states gin-up some tortured logistical reasoning for now having to exclude *any* democratic presidential nominee from their ballots...
posted by Thorzdad at 7:28 AM on July 22

If she does adopt a position of cutting weapon supplies to Israel, she risks losing votes from a different subset of Democrats, in the group of voters I refer to, who are then likely to vote for Trump.

Like sotonohino said, I don't think the pro-genocide crowd that would vote for TFG is as widespread as the pro-Palestinian crowd that would not vote for Biden. And to reiterate, it does seem like Biden personally is all-in on Israel, for whatever they want to do; I don't think he really hates Palestine, but he just doesn't care; it's just a consequence of Israel doing what it wants and Biden putting his full weight with them. He even called himself a zionist.

Based on what I've seen from Harris, she goes along with the administration, but it definitely doesn't feel like it's really what she wants, from interviews and speeches I've seen on social media. I hope I'm not wrong, but once she comes to power she might change directions. Even her just quietly defund arms for Israel is way more than anything Biden would do.
posted by numaner at 7:31 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Democratic Whip Katherine Clark has endorsed Harris.

And Gretchen Whitmer.
posted by LostInUbe at 7:32 AM on July 22 [18 favorites]

I'm pretty damn sure that the events that led to the current situation grew out of Trump's ME policy

fuck trump, but whether or not you intended it, this is a stone-cold ahistorical lie.
posted by busted_crayons at 7:32 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

The state by state legal challenge would be my main fear. Though I suspect they’d have a better time trying calvinball legal bullshit against the mess of infighting I was expecting at this point than a candidate with solid support.
posted by Artw at 7:33 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

Harris won me over when she made sure to stop at Dehillerin while in Paris a couple years ago.
posted by St. Oops at 7:33 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

I get hating Biden for his ME policies, but I do not get how anyone imagines a Trump administration would do better.

My answer may sound glib but there's really not much to elaborate: it's not so much that he's better rather than their families are dead. What is he going to do? Raise them from the dead to kill them again? If he's that adept of a necromancer there's an unfortunately longer line of those dead from COVID that's 'at least' American he can work on.
posted by cendawanita at 7:36 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

The “open borders” stuff is bullshit and has always been bullshit. If I go down to Patagonia for a bike ride, or Parker Canyon to go kayaking, or Tubac to go shopping, or Bisbee to go explore, I have to go through a Border Patrol checkpoint on the way home, well north of the border. If you go on any of the roads near the border, you’re going to see lots of BP agents. And this is all despite the fact that Trump got a lot of his trash “wall” built in Arizona - hey, if that thing worked, they wouldn’t need all those agents out there. I don’t feel in danger at all hiking close to the border. It doesn’t matter, though, if Democrats are in office the Republicans are going to scream “OPEN BORDERS” and the press will run with it because they love the screaming. Angry people means engagement.
posted by azpenguin at 7:36 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

I agree with the person who said Kamala deserves her own thread. I would do it but I am at work and probably should not. One could, for instance, just grab a bunch of the great links already provided in this thread to make the Kamala one?
(Yes I know, I should do it if I want it so much. Maybe someone is working on it?)
posted by Glinn at 7:37 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

This is what I don't get. I get hating Biden for his ME policies, but I do not get how anyone imagines a Trump administration would do better.

People need to feel like they have some choice or power in a horrifying situation. There were numerous redlines that were supposed to be absolute that simply passed unremarked. And Biden's policy stayed the same no matter how much protesters begged and advisors said he should change course. And these people are watching their families and friends slaughtered. People will dream up hope when none exists. At first that hopes was that Biden would stop or at least moderate the bloodlist of Netanyahu. When that became impossible to believe, the new false hope was that Trump might do something other than give Netanyahu full rein.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:37 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

It got deleted for being too close to this one. Try again on Friday?

ETA: about the new Kamala thread!
posted by cendawanita at 7:37 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

I'm pretty damn sure that the events that led to the current situation grew out of Trump's ME policy, which Biden should obviously have ended right away

It grew out of a zionist campaign with help of the nazis (yes) in the 30's. Also, again someone else already said, but Gaza is mostly flattened and the West Bank has seen more deaths and illegal settlements in the last 9 months than all the years before. So TFG couldn't actually do more than what israel already did and is planning to do.
posted by numaner at 7:38 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

It's being bruited about that the Republicans are seriously regretting their pick of J.D. Vance for VP. He was a cocky choice who brings them no extra votes. Wouldn't it be fun to see him get kicked off the ticket and replaced? Not that they'd come up with anyone better, but the humiliation would look so good on Vance.
posted by orange swan at 7:38 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

I'm secretly hoping that Biden feels like a tremendous weight has been lifted from him, and even though he's got over 6 months in office left, which won't be a cakewalk, I hope he's sneaking peeks at fishing gear and what's the latest hotness in bass boats.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:39 AM on July 22 [22 favorites]

I am not sure that most red states are going to go that way [keep Harris off the ballot for Reasons]. They might, but that really is a coup move. It will go over big with really hardcore Trump rally MAGAs, but it will make a lot of people pretty uneasy, including some rich people. Trump and the end-of-days wing of Christianity may be ginning up a civil war, but an awful, awful lot of people much prefer predictability, buying luxury beachfront property, etc. You don't have to be some kind of radical or hero to prefer just regular-degular elections where we don't try to knock candidates off the ballot on a pretext.

Not saying they wouldn't do it, but "we're not putting the Democrats' candidate on the ballot for reasons a baby could see through" is a bold move.
posted by Frowner at 7:39 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

I’m still annoyed at Tim Ryan, who ran against Vance. He decided to distance himself from Biden, but in a way that made it look like he didn’t stand for anything, and as such no one was excited about voting for him.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:41 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

I was just thinking about the "cop vs felon" thing from upthread. And it reminded me of a phrase I heard during the Trump years. "No one is above the law. Some people ought to slip below it, though."

Like... power is what makes you a threat. Being poor and powerless means that even if you break the law - you can't do much harm. You just lack the resources to do much harm.

The law ought to be specifically for reigning in the people who have money, followers, own business and media outlets, etc. Government should be a way the rest of us can organize to protect ourselves from various forms of organized crime and wannabe warlords. Poor people using drugs and sleeping on park benches aren't really a threat to the rest of us. It's okay if they slip beneath the notice of the law.

I want Harris to own the prosecutor thing in this way: "Kamala Harris knows that the most dangerous criminals are the rich and powerful ones, like Donald Trump."
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:41 AM on July 22 [35 favorites]

> >I'm so into it because how hard is Hillary Clinton coping and seething right now?

> When you're so misogynistic you need to invent reasons to be mad at women.

Right??? Especially since Hillary is coming out guns blazing in vocal support of Harris while other ~elder statesmen~ are sitting around with their thumbs up their asses with everyone making excuse after excuse for them. Like. This is a woman who has NEVER flinched from doing what's right for the country, putting her ego aside with the kind of speed you only see in powerful women, never in powerful men. The other ~elder statesmen~ could do worse than take a page out of Hillary's book throughout this saga. Her moves have been exemplary and she's going to be out there campaigning her ass off for Harris.
posted by MiraK at 7:42 AM on July 22 [36 favorites]

this is a stone-cold ahistorical lie

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be a lie. My theory is that Kushner's so called peace deal between Israel and some Gulf States created a desperate situation on the Palestinian side (and in Iran), which led to the October 7 attacks.

And Netanyahu who is a corrupt, genocidal crook jumped on the "opportunity". At the time, he had almost total backing in Israel, and it would have been impossible for any Western power to stop the retribution.

I totally agree that Israel was a really bad idea from the outset, but now millions of Israelis have their homes there. I'm all for a one state solution, where one person has one vote in a democracy. But we are stuck with the mistakes of our grandfathers.
posted by mumimor at 7:43 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

My head's been spinning on this since the announcement yesterday and I haven't been able to catch up and comment here yet, but this is exciting. I was on the fence before about Biden dropping out, but now that he's done so, the relief is palpable and the groundswell surge behind Harris is thrilling. LFG!

I can't get behind the "if only Joe had done this right after the debate" idea because I feel like this was perfectly, deliciously timed. Like, I don't know when Biden actually made this decision, but I'm damn-near certain that he waited until after the RNC to drop it as a way of playing rope-a-dope instead of letting them use their four nights of public airwaves to attack the actual nominee. And we're seeing that in the GOP reaction to this, whining that "no, the Dems have to keep the guy we've spent months tearing down on the ballot," which isn't a good look for them. And the fact that this race now looks like it's going to be totally about women, and that the GOP's immediate strategy is to attack Harris on the most misogynistic grounds, is also probably not going to work out great for them.

As for VP picks, Sanders is way too old and doesn't get them anything, I don't think. I would love love love Warren here but I also think she doesn't get them much in the campaign. (I don't think she loses them much either, because I think the Democratic Voter who will only get off the couch for Harris if she has a man for her VP pick is largely mythological, but Massachusetts is already a lock.) AOC is a non-starter, gaining the Harris campaign little (some younger voters, maybe) while firing up the shit out of the Republican voters and alienating whatever moderates are left out there, plus New York is already a lock anyway. (I say this as someone who adores AOC, but yeah, she's the Blue Lion and I don't know if she'll ever be poised to go national, but she's not there right now.)

Buttigieg is an interesting choice. I don't think his sexuality is a deal-breaker at all (probably fires up both bases about equally, if I had to guess) and I think the real hit on him is lack of experience, but I also think that hit doesn't land super-well. (The Trump/Vance ticket has a combined 6 years of experience between them, after all, but also Republicans are immune to hypocrisy. Dems' biggest obstacle in this election is the Couch, and I don't think Pete's résumé keeps potential Democratic voters at home.) But I don't think he swings Indiana, so he's not my top choice.

Ultimately, I think this ends up being between Kelly, Beshear, and Shapiro. Beshear is a cool idea, but I doubt he actually swings Kentucky blue, and if he doesn't that's a wasted opportunity. Kelly and Shapiro can probably lock down their states, both of which are big-deal states for the Democrats to win. And between the two of them, I think the dems have an easier shot at locking down PA on their own than AZ, plus Kelly has nationwide likability and experience debating fools like Vance.

So he's not my "perfect world" top choice (which would be Warren or, yeah, AOC) but I think Mark Kelly is the best choice for this extremely "imperfect world" moment.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:43 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]

I get hating Biden for his ME policies, but I do not get how anyone imagines a Trump administration would do better.

It's not that they think Trump will do better, it's that they know their vote is the only leverage they have as an individual in trying to collectively stop a genocide in the immediate. They are being told their votes matter and they are taking people at their word. They have now just watched the President and the Democratic party make a giant historical change at the last second because they are responding to a plurality of discontent at the current state of things and a fear of losing the election - so they know they will respond to *something*. Extremely naive to be shocked if their pressure does not let up!

Going solely off vibes but I would venture to guess a pretty sizeable percentage of The Progressive Anti War Left are thrilled about all of this almost explicitly because it satisfies their schadenfreude bloodthirst of seeing a president who has stubbornly armed and supported a genocide now getting effectively fired from his job.

I am elated that someone who can form full cogent sentences is running against Trump, but really hoping Harris takes full advantage of the reset here and does not drop the ball with what appears to be a very important voting bloc.
posted by windbox at 7:45 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]

Pritzker has also endorsed Harris. I've read that other midwestern governors are also making endorsements but I haven't found them yet.

Any online Republicans trying to say that Biden was the pick and can't be removed are talking nonsense. Most scenarios where states might challenge a change would be after states certified the candidates and this is all happening well before that.
posted by LostInUbe at 7:45 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

the spending causing inflation

Come on. If you're going to float that stuff here, at least *address* the evidence we've seen over the last year or two that corporate profit-taking has been a disproportionally large driver of U.S. inflation:

The historically high profit margins in the economic recovery from the pandemic sit very uneasily with explanations of recent inflation based purely on macroeconomic overheating. Evidence from the past 40 years suggests strongly that profit margins should shrink and the share of corporate sector income going to labor compensation (or the labor share of income) should rise as unemployment falls and the economy heats up. The fact that the exact opposite pattern has happened so far in the recovery should cast much doubt on inflation expectations rooted simply in claims of macroeconomic overheating.
posted by mediareport at 7:45 AM on July 22 [54 favorites]

It got deleted for being too close to this one. Try again on Friday?

The separate Harris thread was deleted at least partly for being a minimal post:
This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, but even within the whirlwind of events, the site's purpose is to filter and post the best articles, explainers, etc. for people to discuss, and not just a wikipedia link. We can take the time to do a more in-depth post on this, I think, and hopefully make it not simply a repetitive bifurcation of the "Biden Resigns" thread.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:45 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

~ waits anxiously to see which redder-than-red states gin-up some tortured logistical reasoning for now having to exclude *any* democratic presidential nominee from their ballots...

The first order of business will be the Tom Fitton/Orly Taitz types breathlessly declaring that since neither of Harris's parents were naturalized citizens at the time of Harris's birth, Harris is not a natural born citizen and therefore ineligible to be President. This also made her ineligible to be Vice President, but, well, everyone just sort of played along with that until now.

The fact that this argument defies the plain verbiage of the 14th Amendment does not deter them, as they are happy to draw distinctions between jus sanguinis (your citizenship is passed to you by your parents' status) and jus soli (if you are born here, you are a citizen) due to their burning desire to eliminate the latter.

Are any precedents currently safe in America, even ones that have been upheld again and again and again? No. But this one would be a very tall order to topple.

It's being bruited about that the Republicans are seriously regretting their pick of J.D. Vance for VP. He was a cocky choice who brings them no extra votes. Wouldn't it be fun to see him get kicked off the ticket and replaced? Not that they'd come up with anyone better, but the humiliation would look so good on Vance.

Oh, I have no doubt that Trump is dashing from room to room demanding that Tulsi Gabbard get swapped in NOW NOW NOW.

> When you're so misogynistic you need to invent reasons to be mad at women.

If you want to view a woman who is in 120% crab-bucket mode, look no further than the execrable Laura Loomer, who opined "We cannot and should not accept having a drug using prostitute as our President."
posted by delfin at 7:46 AM on July 22

One angle on which Trump is worse on Palestine is that he's pledged to deport people who participated in the protests. This is minimal compared to the genocide in Palestine itself, but it could make organizing in the US around this issue harder.
posted by nightcoast at 7:48 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be a lie. My theory is that Kushner's so called peace deal between Israel and some Gulf States created a desperate situation on the Palestinian side (and in Iran), which led to the October 7 attacks.

i didn't even really mean "history" in the 1917 or 1948 or 1967 sense. i mean that i lived in israel briefly during the 2008-09 attack on gaza and the feb. 2009 elections and my anecdotal feeling from talking to the people around me, and from listening to my life's zionists since then, is that the genocide has been in the post since long before donald trump descended that fucking staircase, although the exact catalysing events of course depend on who exactly had power where and when.
posted by busted_crayons at 7:50 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]

Additional anecdata about the enthusiasm for Harris: I got invited to a FB group of Black women in support of Harris which has gained over 115, 000 members in less than 24 hours...
posted by TwoStride at 7:51 AM on July 22 [39 favorites]

If you want to view a woman who is in 120% crab-bucket mode, look no further than the execrable Laura Loomer, who opined "We cannot and should not accept having a drug using prostitute as our President."

Between antifa Biden, Satanic Marxist Harris, and this Republicans have a real knack for creating way cooler versions of Democratic politicians.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:52 AM on July 22 [17 favorites]

look no further than the execrable Laura Loomer

Considering what she was saying about Sheila Jackson Lee after she passed away last week, that's Loomer being relatively polite.

And I think Loomer is probably basing those remarks on the photo of Harris with Montel Williams but you never know. It's hard to get into the head of someone who doesn't know how doors work.
posted by LostInUbe at 7:57 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

I really don't care at all for the Clintons, but Biden's family haven't done anything worth having any kind of malice over. Joe Biden trying to care for his son is one of the admirable thinks about him and Jill Biden has suffered a lot and hasn't done any harm I can see at all.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:58 AM on July 22 [13 favorites]

look no further than the execrable Laura Loomer

i will look up to the point just shy of loomer, around loomer, and anywhere but loomer
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:58 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Frowner as long as the states in question are states that would he guaranteed to go Trump I'm 100% in favor of some asshole red states forcing Harris off the ballot.

It'd be great for so many reasons.

Campaign ads: Donald Trump is so afraid of Kamala Harris he forced his cronies in South Dakota (or wherever) to take her off the ballot.

Voter turnout: A red state even TRYING to keep Harris off the ballot would engage, enrage, and enthuse Democratic voters nationwide. One succeeding would be one of the most effective GOTV measures for Democrats I can think of.

Courts: The only thing better would be if the MAGA six on the Supreme Court acutally upheld a red state keeping Harris off the ballots. All the rage at the corrupt Supreme Court would kick into overdrive and quite possibly give the Democrats a chance to win several Houe and Senate seats they otherwise might not be able to simply on the basis of expanding the Court.

I mean, from an actual survival of American democracy standpoint it'd suck, but if they're going to do it it will backfire on them horribly.
posted by sotonohito at 8:02 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

I mean, from an actual survival of American democracy standpoint it'd suck

That’s kinda the standpoint I’m most focused on right now.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:06 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

In terms of Palestine, I'd say the politically savvy move would be for Harris to signal that her administration "looks forward to joining the international consensus in bringing about an end to hostilities and helping the people of Gaza rebuild." There is nothing radical (or at least, there shouldn't be) about saying that you aim to be united with our Allies in the international community on an issue. Also worth nothing that her national security advisor Phil Gordon wrote a book called Losing the Long Game: The False Promise of Regime Change in the Middle East in 2020. I've been trying to learn more about him this morning, and from what I've seen the sense is that he is highly educated and knowledgeable, not radical by any means, but a shift from Biden.

From one article:

“I think he’s very much on the progressive wing of the national security continuum,” said Foundation for Defense of Democracies CEO Mark Dubowitz, who participated in several public debates on the Iran deal with Gordon in 2015. “He’s Obama redux.”

And not that Obama (drone king) was perfect, but he was certainly less chummy with Israel than Biden.
posted by coffeecat at 8:12 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

New Kamala Harris thread.
posted by mediareport at 8:15 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

I forgot to mention Newsom in my VP-picks-rundown above, but since there's no time for either of them to pretend to be from Wyoming, I think he's well and truly out of the running.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:16 AM on July 22

Another thing I noticed on that BBC radio show at lunchtime was a Republican (was it Lewandowski? I forget) repeatedly mispronouncing Harris's name as kuh-MAH-luh. An innocent mistake when she was unknown, but now you have to suspect it's intentional, and it seems a tell to watch out for. My instinctive response would be to ask about their candidate duh-NALD...
posted by rory at 8:19 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

What?
posted by mumimor at 8:21 AM on July 22 [16 favorites]

Someone who thinks abortion is "always wrong" is a misogynist

I don’t agree: there are pro-woman takes on this, though usually I don’t see the people saying this supporting them:
- “because birth control should be universal and free and distributed in schools such that every pregnancy is a wanted pregnancy”
- “because we should have the technological capacity to end pregnancies better than the current way we do, which is hard on a woman’s body.”

That said, look, trust me, I hate Biden as much as the next guy, but there’s seriously so much to hate that that doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of most important point.

I am intrigued by Harris having more pro-Palestine sentiment, and am curious as to how far it goes when she’s not hampered by him.
posted by corb at 8:22 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

The west funding a war of attrition is not doing Ukraine any favors

If Russia wins outright they’ll commit genocide, something they’ve declared their Intention to do and something they’ve done in territory they’ve captured, so I’m not sure that makes sense.

Not that a stronger commitment to Ukraine actually pushing Russia back wouldn’t help more.
posted by Artw at 8:24 AM on July 22 [10 favorites]

You know who i'd love to see as VP? Beto O'Rourke.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:26 AM on July 22 [10 favorites]

If Harris kicks Biden’s Middle East advisors to the curb over Israel that WILL make a huge difference. Those guys are genocidal freaks.
posted by Artw at 8:26 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

Biden's family haven't done anything worth having any kind of malice over. Joe Biden trying to care for his son is one of the admirable thinks about him

Agreed. Biden's unstinting love and support for his Large Adult Failson is one of the few truly admirable things about him.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:28 AM on July 22 [15 favorites]

repeatedly mispronouncing Harris's name as kuh-MAH-luh.

I have the same problem. It just means he's a Screeching Weasel fan.
posted by stet at 8:32 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

just as much cosplay as the United Nations

wtf

low-skill non-English-speaking mostly male migrants from awful religious/patriarchal Third World cultures

WTF

depressing wages for American workers

the actual labour movement mostly ditched this odious xenophobic bullshit a while ago.
posted by busted_crayons at 8:43 AM on July 22 [31 favorites]

No, most of it is just racism, because those other things are almost entirely untrue.

Signed,
I live in a city with a large number of recent Muslim immigrants from a conservative culture and it's fine.
posted by Frowner at 8:43 AM on July 22 [20 favorites]

Christ, what a truly vile comment.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:44 AM on July 22 [12 favorites]

You know who i'd love to see as VP? Beto O'Rourke.

If we're going with Texans, my choice would be Julian Castro.

But I think Beshear is so perfect for a number of reasons, including being able to out-Appalachia JD Vance. Beshear codes as conservative but is a liberal fighter who is genuinely good on (for example) trans issues; Josh Shapiro, to take another name on the shortlist, is coded liberal but is very pro-vouchers and might actually be to Biden's right on Palestine. I don't want to give him a platform for a 2032 run in any way.

Plus my understanding is that Beshear is term-limited, so the marginal cost of elevating him to the ticket is less than, say, Roy Cooper (who can't leave North Carolina or else an actual monster becomes governor) or Mark Kelly (who, yes, will get his replacement named by a Democratic governor, but will cause the Democrats to defend a Senate seat in a red-tinged state every two years for the next little while).

I'm all in on Beshear.
posted by Gadarene at 8:45 AM on July 22 [10 favorites]

Sure, the ones who've been here for five years or more and have kept their noses clean, shrug, okay, but no, the overwhelming majority of Americans totally Do Not Want mass migration of low-skill non-English-speaking mostly male migrants from awful religious/patriarchal Third World cultures. Europeans don't, either.

hey bud this is super fucking gross and bigoted as hell just fyi
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:46 AM on July 22 [35 favorites]

Because that's what the overwhelming majority of Americans want. More or less fully sealed borders. No "asylum" seekers en masse.

Citation needed. Seeking asylum by crossing the border was the standard operation procedure for a very long time before Trump demonized it.

such as depressing wages for American workers and swinging the needle against feminism and LGBTetc rights.

Also citations needed. I'm not claiming that all immigrants to this country are progressive, but this strikes me as way off-base.

male migrants from awful religious/patriarchal Third World cultures.

So we're endorsing Trump's "shithole countries" sentiment now on this website? Yikes. Also, as a woman who did a year+ stint living in a such a country, yes, I would often get into arguments with men over issues pertaining to the patriarchy, but I also forged strong friendships during my time there with men and women (even many who disagreed with me about the patriarchy!), many of whom invited me to their church or mosque as a sign of friendship, and as a sign of friendship I attended despite my agnostic ways - so yeah, I could not find this sentiment more abhorrent.
posted by coffeecat at 8:47 AM on July 22 [10 favorites]

1. Yup, eventually the bigotry shows up, you just have to wait if the first play (insisting that Palestine is a derail) fails.

2. See point 1.

3. I've maxed out on favourites.
posted by cendawanita at 8:49 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Katie Porter would make an amazing VP, but she's from California like Harris, so she isn't such a great choice vote-wise.
posted by orange swan at 8:50 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

And since immigration came up, the most recent episode of Last Week Tonight did a really solid take down on how much of a gross boogeyman that issue is - the current video on YouTube is currently not available in the US, but presumably will be soon.
posted by coffeecat at 8:53 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

A president and VP from the same state is actually unconstitutional.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:54 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

No "asylum" seekers en masse. Sure, the ones who've been here for five years or more and have kept their noses clean, shrug, okay, but no, the overwhelming majority of Americans totally Do Not Want mass migration of low-skill non-English-speaking mostly male migrants from awful religious/patriarchal Third World cultures.

You can be better than this.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:54 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

Gadarene: Yeah, Beshear would be a good choice too. I hope it's not Shapiro, he's absolutely vile on Palestine. The Uncommitted movement leadership is trying to push Harris for some guarantees on Palestine and i think that's fantastic; Shapiro would be a clear signal that she doesn't care about those voters.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:55 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Roy Cooper (who can't leave North Carolina or else an actual monster becomes governor)

Cooper is term-limited, too.
posted by mediareport at 8:56 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

You can be better than this.

empirically they probably can't
posted by busted_crayons at 8:57 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

You can be better than this.

Oh, I think they just went fully mask off and they cannot be better than this.

Well, well, well.

Can’t say the clues weren’t already there.
posted by Artw at 8:57 AM on July 22 [11 favorites]

in america where the political colour scheme is backwards, do we call this sort of attitude "blue-brown"?
posted by busted_crayons at 8:58 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

Hank Green (if you don't know him, he's big on the Short Form Videos, kinda the Bill Nye for GenZ) shared this yesterday and I think its a great viewpoint on how VP Harris can capture younger voters through modern social media in a way that others cannot

Trump Versus the Coconut-Pilled

(Is the Harris post gone? I hate to interrupt your arguing about Biden with Harris positivity, but I'm going to anyhow.)
posted by anastasiav at 9:00 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

in america where the political colour scheme is backwards, do we call this sort of attitude "blue-brown"?

Blue MAGA Cult
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:00 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

Cooper is term-limited, too.

Right, but he wouldn't be able to campaign outside the North Carolina border without handing the reins of power to his terrible, terrible, terrible Lieutenant Governor.

I'd rather not be faced with the choice of hobbling his ability to campaign and doing injury to the people of North Carolina.
posted by Gadarene at 9:02 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

I hope it's not Shapiro, he's absolutely vile on Palestine

Shapiro as the VP pick would see me (and probably anyone who cares about Palestine as an issue) back to only voting down-ticket; Kelly seems like the best choice out of the available options, really (fighter pilot, astronaut, major contrast next to soft boy Vance, gives the ticket some "national security" credentials that the Republicans can't match).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:02 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

See also: every "liberal" who signs onto dumbass bigoted open letters
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:02 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

Also, just ftr, the Twin Cities has both a large Hmong community and a large Somali community who came here as refugees. I'm not saying, god knows, that there is no racism here, but because our churches (and it was churches) and our politicians exercised leadership, the general tenor of things here is that we are a community made up of people from many places, and that it's good and normal to welcome people from elsewhere, even from formally conservative cultures (who often are not as conservative as you think, for one thing). We also have a substantial Mexican-American community and that's relatively recent, and again, for the most part US-born people view this as good and normal. In particular, although there have been some conflicts over values, those have pretty much been smoothed out by time because that's how people are unless you focus on whipping up their sentiments. There certainly hasn't been any needle-moving in negative directions.

It is possible to exercise leadership and move the needle. They might have to be a bit clever about it, but they by no means need to say, "fine, you believe a lot of racist (and anti-refugee, what the fuck) talking points, so we're going to Build The Wall" or whatever.

Immigration has been good for the Twin Cities and the state. I live in a markedly immigrant neighborhood, and I remember perfectly well when there were empty storefronts where now there are businesses. I remember when you really had to work to get a decent taco on this side of town. I remember the first time I had East African food. I remember when my favorite coffee shop folded and how there's a coffee shop there again instead of an empty building.

That's facts. If people would rather believe something else because they don't like immigrants, then it's our job to educate not just shrug and say it's a matter of opinion.
posted by Frowner at 9:03 AM on July 22 [52 favorites]

Late to the thread, and with a view from across the pond.

Biden has always seemed relatively fit and vital compared with his peers (particularly Trump), so I was shocked to see how frail he looked, even just walking on the stage, at the debate. And as we all know, it all went downhill from there.

That was the first time I had genuine doubts about his ability to beat Trump, and it made me very worried indeed. I think the decision to step down was the only right decision. If he'd won, I doubt he'd have finished the term, leaving Harris as President anyway.

MAGA votes are locked in, as are those who will always vote Democrat. But I think that there's a better chance now that the Undecideds will have confidence that there's a fully-functioning candidate who can stand the place and vote for Harris.
posted by essexjan at 9:04 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

Gretchen Whitmer has a large Arab-American population in her state. I think she can credibly claim the ability to change the discussion on the matter of Gaza.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:06 AM on July 22

Gretchen Whitmer has a large Arab-American population in her state. I think she can credibly claim the ability to change the discussion on the matter of Gaza.

I don't really know why you'd think that; the evidence is against that idea.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:12 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

A president and VP from the same state is actually unconstitutional.

Oh boy I get to put on my pedant hat. It's perfectly constitutional for the president and VP to be from the same state. That state can't cast its electors for both of the candidates though, so it's possible it would result in the VP not having enough electoral votes to reach 270. (Or, uh, the President I guess but what kind of idiot electors would cast for the VP candidate instead of the Presidential candidate?)
posted by Justinian at 9:14 AM on July 22 [14 favorites]

I wonder if Biden's flagging poll results despite his attempts to border hawk have done enough to bolster a "why bother" argument, but I doubt it.
posted by Selena777 at 9:37 AM on July 22

There is not a single pivot to the right they could make that wouldn’t just be empty freebies given to the GOP but I’m still going to be a little on edge until we know if they are making them or not.

(I think the chances of that happen raise to 100% with Donors Choice candidate, FWIW)
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

Right, but he wouldn't be able to campaign outside the North Carolina border without handing the reins of power to his terrible, terrible, terrible Lieutenant Governor.

What? We have a very strong gubernatorial candidate in Josh Stein. Cooper campaigning is great but there’s no reason to think Stein can’t win without Cooper campaigning for him.
posted by jeoc at 9:56 AM on July 22

(Is the Harris post gone? I hate to interrupt your arguing about Biden with Harris positivity, but I'm going to anyhow.)


There's a new post that's staying up. It's already been linked, but maybe worth making more visible.
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vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

‐‐-----------------------------
NEW KAMALA HARRIS THREAD
------------------------------

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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posted by OnceUponATime at 9:57 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

The border question entirely boils down to racism. The country isn't a house we can expect control over the occupants of. There is zero reason to view South and Central Americans as more threatening than our "native" population.

It is also morally abhorrent. The US has intervened to make these places worse. We have propped up fascistic parties, funded death squads, and put dictators in power whose crimes are the stuff of nightmares. All to strengthen the interests of US businesses.

And when the human beings whose nations we have robbed and yoked to fascist regimes and brutalized come desperate and hungry to our door, to slam it in their faces and spit on them for being from poor right wing nations is beyond hypocrisy. It is to blame them for the wounds we have inflicted.

We love to demonize the victims of our actions. "They're criminals from shithole countries, they're primitive sectarian terrorists, they're irresponsible and lazy, they are all born criminals, or perverts or whatever else. And some I assume are good people." We'll believe anything to avoid looking the human cost of our actions in the eye.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:04 AM on July 22 [30 favorites]

What? We have a very strong gubernatorial candidate in Josh Stein. Cooper campaigning is great but there’s no reason to think Stein can’t win without Cooper campaigning for him.

The concern is that according to NC state law, if Cooper leaves the state at all, for any reason, then the Lt. Governor immediately becomes acting Governor until he returns. And presumably to campaign with Harris, he would need to leave the state often. So naming Cooper as Harris's VP would give Robinson immediate chances for shenanigans; that's the worry, not any impact on who gets elected to the Governorship in January.
posted by solotoro at 10:21 AM on July 22 [3 favorites]

The country isn't a house we can expect control over the occupants of.

what's brilliant about putting it this way is that the border-as-locked-entrance-to-house right-wing nonsense dovetails nicely with the public-finances-as-household-budgeting right-wing nonsense.

anyway it is important to tick off "vote for the democrat if you're registered somewhere where it matters" because some americans, i assume, are good people who don't deserve to be collateral damage in the most sinister eventuality. but fucking hell, it's wild to see sanctimonious people eagerly appointing themselves the Armchair Generals of Electoral Antifa and then falling silent when one of theirs drops racist trash like we saw upthread.
posted by busted_crayons at 10:21 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

Pattern juggler, is there an country you’ve seen with a border policy worth emulating or do you feel the very idea is inherently wrong?
posted by Selena777 at 10:26 AM on July 22

Selena777 for most of its history the USA had an even looser border policy than the one I outlined. The border policy was originally non-existent. You could come to America, live, work, and heck after just a few years even vote.

The only reason it changed was pure unadulterated racism, beginning with the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1884 which was implemented on explicitly white supremacist grounds. From 1884 to 1943 Chinese immigration to the US was prohibited (with a few tiny exceptions). Then in 1943 they decided that 105 Chinese could immigrate to the US annually. Yes 105. Total.

In addition to just plain open and naked racism they also said, surprise, Chinese immigrants were to blame for low wages. Funny how low wages are never the fault of the capitalist assholes who set the wages...
posted by sotonohito at 10:44 AM on July 22 [23 favorites]

The US pre-1882, maybe? I do think the idea of border enforcement is fundamentally wrong. I understand that this is currently a politically nonviable position, though. I think something like the position suggested earlier sotonohito, where the border patrol just issues you an id card and does an on the spot background check is pretty reasonable though. I know politicians have to live in the space of what is acceptable to an imperfect, often bigoted public. But I think ideologically we should recognize that it is a compromise with a fundamentally racist idea, and that there is no right level of exclusion of people based on their place of birth.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:47 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Pattern juggler, is there an country you’ve seen with a border policy worth emulating or do you feel the very idea is inherently wrong?

i'm not pattern juggler, but a country that isn't constructed from massive wealth derived from colonial exploitation, genocide, slavery, etc. has, probably, wider latitude to exclude people than a country that is. and the arguments for exclusion have to be real and good and not fake and racist and bad, even in those allowable cases (of which the us is not one). this applies especially to the exclusion of immigrants from places that have been exploited or damaged or immiserated as part of that colonial exploitation.

(see also: the bullshit thing where immigrants to the UK --- including people from countries recently and imperialised by britain, countries whose resources and labour were stolen to build the very same british institutions surrounded by an exclusionary racist border policy (both before and after brexit) --- have to pay several hundred quid as an "NHS surcharge" that accompanies an already-expensive visa application. the NHS is a great institution but given what the british were up to in the empire around the time of the NHS's formation it's a bit fucking rich to make immigrants pre-pay.)
posted by busted_crayons at 10:48 AM on July 22 [7 favorites]

It is also morally abhorrent. The US has intervened to make these places worse. We have propped up fascistic parties, funded death squads, and put dictators in power whose crimes are the stuff of nightmares. All to strengthen the interests of US businesses.

The US - the industrially developed world as a whole, really - brings in all the stuff it wants from the rest of the world, leaves the rest of the world poorer, politically disrupts any part of the rest of the world that resists, and then complains when people from the rest of the world want to go to where all the stuff is going.

There are some bad people and assholes who also talk about that - Putin being a recent example - but it's not wrong just because assholes are saying it.

However, that fact of the shittiness of the world probably isn't going to be made better if bad people and assholes in America win this particular election.

How do we make all of that better? Dunno.
posted by clawsoon at 10:48 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

also this idea that the Voting Public Won't Bear A More Just Approach is just the whiniest bullshit imaginable. when made by a politician, it's an admission that either (1) they are not actually motivated by a more just approach or (2) they are a political incompetent, unable to do the necessary thing where you win over a bunch of people so that the cohort unwilling to get on board is small and weak enough to silence and marginalise.
posted by busted_crayons at 10:55 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

I don't think that the racist comment above was meant to express the user's actual views about immigrants, but was meant to express the middle 20% of american voter's views about immigrants. As someone who has knocked doors of likely voters in purple exurban state congressional districts in three different states and four different election cycles, that seemed about right to me. It serves as a decent reminder about how far to the left of center the political discussion generally is around here, how unwelcome those ideas immediately were. The median american voter has pretty racist views about immigrants; those are the kind of people who we need to convince to vote for Harris/Anybody, for better or worse.
posted by Kwine at 10:59 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

I don't think that the racist comment above was meant to express the user's actual views about immigrants, but was meant to express the middle 20% of american voter's views about immigrants

seems to me that both of those things are true: that poster has a pretty spicy comment history and the comment was, even if describing a widely-held view, pretty damn gleeful about it.

those are the kind of people who we need to convince to vote for Harris/Anybody, for better or worse

why not convince them to stay home, so they don't vote for the fash and don't have to be pandered to? they've been trying that with numerous other demographics forever. why are kevin, karen, and kyle so fucking special, unless the politicians in question are mostly sincerely committed to advancing the interests of petit bourgeois suburban racists?
posted by busted_crayons at 11:08 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

What would convince them to stay home if the other side is yelling "border crisis?"
posted by Selena777 at 11:11 AM on July 22

anyway someone calling the ICJ "cosplay" at this moment is not simply telling it like it is about the state of the electorate or whatever; they are actively delegitimising opposition to a fucking massacre.
posted by busted_crayons at 11:12 AM on July 22 [8 favorites]

These days I don't know how to assess WSJ (because they've been so horrendously bad both at editorial and reportorial levels when it comes to the ongoing occupation in Palestine) so I'm not sure how to judge their US domestic beat, but: How the Bet on an 81-Year-Old Joe Biden Turned Into an Epic Miscalculation - Voters thought the faltering president was too old, but allies looked the other way, advisers defended his abilities and the Democratic Party boxed out other candidates (ungated)

Where have all this anecdotes been hidden away, is what I wanted to know. The opening one apparently dates back all the way to October... 2021 and marked 'the last time Biden met with the House Democratic caucus on the Hill regarding legislation'.

More insider journalism but best to not get into it if you're already in a neck-wringing sort of mood.
posted by cendawanita at 11:14 AM on July 22 [5 favorites]

So naming Cooper as Harris's VP would give Robinson immediate chances for shenanigans

That's a good point, especially given that Robinson already tried some shenanigans when Cooper left the state for a trade trip to Japan just after the Oct 7 Hamas attack, holding a press event to announce a day of prayer and a week of solidarity with Israel while Cooper was away. Nice cover attempt for the anti-Semitic garbage he'd spewed in the past. This bit is interesting:

Sam Chan, a spokeswoman for Cooper, said courts across the country have struck down rules similar to the one in the North Carolina Constitution, a relic of an era when people traveled by horse and cell phones didn't exist. There's no need for an acting governor, she said, when the real governor is still in constant contact with state officials even from half the world away.
posted by mediareport at 11:16 AM on July 22 [2 favorites]

What would convince them to stay home if the other side is yelling "border crisis?"

i dunno, some galaxy brain QAnon shit or something. isn't there some army of fresh-faced lanyards whose job it is to cook up electoral strategy?
posted by busted_crayons at 11:17 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

🥛🍪🍪
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:34 AM on July 22 [6 favorites]

I was thinking about that with the “Kamala is a cop” attacks, where basically everyone I saw doing that was the kind of “leftist” who spent 2016 putting all of their effort helping get Trump elected by attacking Clinton and gaslighting about Roe. Those guys still exist but they seem to be getting a lot more pushback now that more people have realized that the stakes are far more tangible than BSing over beers.

Golly, adamsc, here I thought Hillary lost in 2016 (despite winning the popular vote) because of Russian election meddling and GOP gerrymandering and a decade of Tea Party rhetoric decrying Democratic policies and reactionary White Nationalists who were pissed about a Black president and being "replaced" by all those immigrants (even though Obama deported lots of them). OH, and rampant misogyny and Hillary being one of the most unlikeable candidates to ever run. I didn't realize it was all due to the vast political power and persuasiveness of "leftists" in 2016 who "handed" the election to Drumpf. /s

As one of those "leftists," I guess I shouldn't have bothered to hold my nose and support her campaigns both times she ran (in the 2008 primaries and again in 2016), or to argue with my sexist boomer centrist Dem father that he should maybe consider voting for her even though he hated her guts.

Seriously, the knee-jerk move by Dems to blame "leftists" for all of their many, many failings as a party is really tiresome and honestly dangerous. Leftists are not THE threat to Democracy - we all know who are - and shit-talking people to the left of you does literally nothing to bolster your party's chances of success. There are a small handful of "leftists" who don't see the point in voting, but they mostly live in Blue states where their abstention doesn't matter (the majority of undecided or swing state voters are not leftists). For what it's worth, I do participate in electoral politics despite often not agreeing with them (I actually saw Harris speak in Nevada in 2020 and, despite disagreeing with many of her politics, I was pleasantly surprised by how engaging she was and I'm excited to see her gather momentum in this current campaign).

Lastly, maintaining expectations of your elected officials to not, for instance, fund a genocide (Biden), unjustly prosecute poor families whose kids miss school (Harris), privatize prisons (Clintons), and drone strike/deport more people than any other previous president (Obama) is reasonable. You're really shitting on people who dare to expect/ask more from their elected officials?
posted by sleepingwithcats at 11:39 AM on July 22 [19 favorites]

pattern juggler: Did you know there is a daily favorite limit on MetaFilter?

Damn right I know. :7)

The only thing to do is to come back day after day, re-reading old threads and handing out favorites to deserving comments, even long after the conversation is done. Respect the creator's efforts. Acknowledge the value. DO 👏 THE 👏 WORK👏
posted by wenestvedt at 11:43 AM on July 22 [9 favorites]

+1 for Kwine's comment. Not going to defend every word of outgrown_hobnail's comment but overall it's good and healthy to be reminded of what the population actually thinks.

76% of Americans want to hire "significantly more border patrol agents". 77% say "the situation at the U.S. border with Mexico [is] a crisis or a major problem". 66% "personally worry a great deal or a fair amount about illegal immigration". 86% consider "large numbers of immigrants entering the United States illegally a critical or important threat". The share of Americans who want all immigration (legal or illegal) to be decreased has gone from 28% to 55% in the last four years.

You can't explain those kind of numbers just with Trump supporters.
posted by Klipspringer at 11:58 AM on July 22 [4 favorites]

You can't explain those kind of numbers just with Trump supporters.

But you can explain it with the media not doing their job, which is to tell the truth
posted by mumimor at 12:00 PM on July 22 [25 favorites]

Ah, better just replace the media in time for November then.
posted by Klipspringer at 12:02 PM on July 22

Ah, better just replace the media in time for November then.

So, tell me what you saw at the border last time you were there. You have been there recently, haven't you?
posted by azpenguin at 12:09 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]

So, tell me what you saw at the border last time you were there. You have been there recently, haven't you?

I've been to the border. The crisis is almost completely made up. It's yet another real media failure. There are also giant walls across most of it. There are some gaps because part of it is mountainous and parts are seriously inhospitable.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:19 PM on July 22 [14 favorites]

Ah, better just replace the media in time for November then.

Vladimir Lenin has entered the chat.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:24 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]

FWIW, Whitmer turned down Biden's VP offer in 2020 (as well as his offer to be part of his administration in another role) and she's since survived a terrorist kidnapping plot so a VP or WH slot may not be attractive; "Hilary Clinton, born to the country clubs" no, her dad served in the Navy in WWII, then opened a drape shop where she & her brothers helped out and her granddad was a Scranton factory worker; the Biden-Harris Administration established the Family Reunification Task Force via Executive Order on Feb. 2, 2021 in hopes of reuniting families separated under the "zero tolerance policy" of the previous administration — and only got so far because the officials doing the sundering deliberately lied about recording where the children were sent.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:38 PM on July 22 [16 favorites]

fucking hell, it's wild to see sanctimonious people eagerly appointing themselves the Armchair Generals of Electoral Antifa and then falling silent when one of theirs drops racist trash like we saw upthread.

Quoted for emphasis.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:50 PM on July 22 [6 favorites]

From here on out, for the first time in his entire political life, we get to see who the true Joe Biden is. Zero personal electoral concerns.
He still has to see the Harris/??? campaign safely to its end. If he goes nuts now, it will reflect poorly on her and her party.
But I'd like to see his final memoirs when the coast is clear. Tell us about everything since getting into politics 50+ years ago.
posted by pracowity at 12:54 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]

You have been there recently, haven't you?

Yeah, Eagle Pass Texas a couple months ago. Trucks/patrols every couple of miles and a passenger control spot where we had to tell the ‘officer’(?) we were there illegally. They were no fun and seemed to be having no fun. Made an impression though I will say that
posted by From Bklyn at 12:58 PM on July 22

Clearly the policy that makes everyone happy is to (a) double the budget for protecting the border but (b) let everybody come in anyway.
posted by mittens at 1:04 PM on July 22 [6 favorites]

Hilary Clinton, born to the country clubs

She also went to a public high school
posted by kirkaracha at 1:35 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]

As someone who a) referred to her as Kamala the Cop, and b) doesn't like her history as a prosecutor where she seemed to embody the absolute worst sort of prosecutors, I'm 100% on board with her as opposed to Trump and I also think the Proseutor vs Felon approach might be OK or might backfire.

Thing is, we aren't going to convince any Trumpers with any ads or arguments. They will vote for Trump if he murders and eats a baby on stage at the next debate.

It MIGHt possibly convince a few of the unreliable Democratic voters who are mostly on the whiter, and more conservative side, to get out because they would be inclined to think fuck felons.

It MIGHT possibly drive down some turnout among unreliable Democratic voters who are on the less white and conservative side of things becasue they would be inclined to think ACAB.

To the actual reliable regular voters it won't make any difference at all. It's also worth remembering that the era of targeted ads where you could be failry sure no one outside the targeted demographic would see them is long over and any Harris as cop as aimed at the pro-cop type of voter are guaranteed ot also be seen by the people who are less enthusiastic about cops.

Also, since Devin hasn't made a video about it yet, does anyone with a legal background have any insight on the threats by Republican lawmakers to try and keep Harris off the ballot in some (or possibly all) states? Just BS and bluster, or is there actually some risk of real lawsuits?
posted by sotonohito at 1:37 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]

Maybe Biden can use his lame duck monarch's immunity to do some humane and strategic illegality on his way out.

"A republic, if you can keep it"
posted by BWA at 1:40 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]

Late to the party, but let me just say that invoking "your trans friends" as a reason why it's ok to abstain from voting makes me vaguely sick to my stomach. As a trans person that doesn't have a canadian passport.
posted by Shellybeans at 1:40 PM on July 22 [29 favorites]

>> Ah, better just replace the media in time for November then.

> Vladimir Lenin has entered the chat

how does one arrange for a sealed train across the border asking for a comrade
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:55 PM on July 22 [8 favorites]

I would like to state for the record that i did not invoke anyone or anything as "a reason why it's ok to abstain from voting". I pointed out that several of my trans friends in the US were also planning to abstain from voting for Biden specifically. That is a different thing! I also do not hate waffles!
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:58 PM on July 22 [6 favorites]

Thing is, we aren't going to convince any Trumpers with any ads or arguments. They will vote for Trump if he murders and eats a baby on stage at the next debate.

Going after Trump supporters is a waste of time an energy. Better to appeal to undecided voters or people who don't usually vote. And maybe people who voted for Haley in the Republican primaries.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:04 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]

It's also worth remembering that the era of targeted ads where you could be fairly sure no one outside the targeted demographic would see them is long over

Do you have a citation in mind for this, because that's heartening if true, but I think I'm such a social media skeptic that I have trouble accepting it without getting to see something backing it up. (Is it the 2021 "sensitive interests" Facebook policy change you have in mind, or have there been even more significant shifts since then?)
posted by nobody at 2:34 PM on July 22

Do you have a citation in mind for this, because that's heartening if true, but I think I'm such a social media skeptic that I have trouble accepting it without getting to see something backing it up. (Is it the 2021 "sensitive interests" Facebook policy change you have in mind, or have there been even more significant shifts since then?)

One of the biggest things that has happened in this department was when Apple implemented privacy changes on iOS a couple of years back. All of those "Facebook would like to access your contacts" type popups that most people would deny permission to and things like that, plus stronger anti-tracking protections was significant enough that Meta said they expected to lose $10 billion a year from that change by itself. Many advertisers are now acting as if targeted ads aren't what they once were, and some are even calling privacy initiatives like this "the end of targeted advertising."
posted by azpenguin at 2:45 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]

how does one arrange for a sealed train across the border
Hohenzollerns!
posted by clavdivs at 3:33 PM on July 22 [6 favorites]

gesundheit!
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 4:31 PM on July 22 [5 favorites]

Pretty sure ad targeting both hasn’t gone anywhere and was always hype and a lie.
posted by Artw at 4:32 PM on July 22 [3 favorites]

re: felonies. Would his status as a convicted felon permit him to fully perform the constitutionally-mandated and generally-expected duties of this office?

Beyond the embarrassingly weaker appearance/diminished standing on the world stage, would his criminal record limit the ability to gain security clearances, undertake international travel, and so on? (Yes, presidential privilege, and diplomatic immunity, and unfortunately New Zealand wouldn't have the nerve to refuse entry based on character failings... Moreover, he's an isolationist, doesn't enjoy foreign travel, and delegated/loafed whenever possible during his time in the WH; sending an ambassador to a key summit wouldn't trouble him.)

I'm wondering if there's a worthwhile talking point about his criminal history in the framework of international diplomacy, about fitness for this position given the US's (tirelessly self-promoted) world leader role, that doesn't demonize having a record.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:47 PM on July 22 [1 favorite]

These are great questions for the journalists, editors, and management of the New York Times.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:00 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]

oh great, here come the thin crust truthers
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane

Well you are clearly working for Big Dough.

Not for nothing, it's kinda fun to imagine what Hannibal Lecter would think of his biggest fan; I'm pretty sure Doctor Lecter would find Donald Trump gauche beyond belief, lol.
posted by kittens for breakfast

Yes, he has much better taste than that.

Ultimately, I think [the Dems VP choice] ends up being between Kelly, Beshear, and Shapiro. Beshear is a cool idea, but I doubt he actually swings Kentucky blue, and if he doesn't that's a wasted opportunity. Kelly and Shapiro can probably lock down their states, both of which are big-deal states for the Democrats to win. And between the two of them, I think the dems have an easier shot at locking down PA on their own than AZ, plus Kelly has nationwide likability and experience debating fools like Vance.

So he's not my "perfect world" top choice (which would be Warren or, yeah, AOC) but I think Mark Kelly is the best choice for this extremely "imperfect world" moment.
posted by Navelgazer

For what this ignorant outsider's opinion is worth, I agree with this. Kelly seems the best option on the table.
posted by Pouteria at 6:19 PM on July 22 [2 favorites]

Unless I'm missing something, this notion that Kamala Harris was "tough on crime" is extremely misinformed.

It's simply untrue that she sent thousands of black men to jail over minor marijuana convictions. "Harris served as San Francisco D.A. from 2004-2011, over which time her office oversaw more than 1,900 marijuana-related convictions, though those convictions resulted in state prison incarcerations at a significantly lower rate than her predecessor. Harris’s district attorney successor, George Gascon, eventually expunged the records of all marijuana offenses dating back to 1975." I saw a video saying she sent just 45 people out of 1900 to jail over marijuana convictions, though I can't currently find a source to back that up. If anyone can confirm that that would be excellent.

She created a reentry program for low-level drug convictions, and it was so successful less than 10% of its inhabitants reoffended.

She supports criminal justice reform and has stated she would support creating a national standard for police use of force and a federal review board that can investigate officer-involved shootings.

She opposed the death penalty for a man convicted of killing a cop.

Rates of prison incarceration decreased between 2004-2010 when she was district attorney.

I'm not saying we can't criticize her--we can and we should if we want a more fair, Democratic society. But I am saying that if we do criticize her we at least need to get our facts right.
posted by Amy93 at 7:42 PM on July 22 [27 favorites]

More fact checking for anyone interested: Marijuana-related admissions dropped from 817 her first year as attorney general to 137 her last year. She was NOT directly involved in blocking evidence that would have freed a man on death row (oh, and he later failed the DNA testing). She introduced legislation to reform the cash bail system and prevent people in poverty from being held in jail. Etc etc etc.
posted by Amy93 at 8:04 PM on July 22 [14 favorites]

Here is an excellent video refuting many of the claims I mentioned and a bunch of others, with receipts to verify what he's saying. Okay I'm out.
posted by Amy93 at 8:06 PM on July 22 [9 favorites]

Beyond the embarrassingly weaker appearance/diminished standing on the world stage, would his criminal record limit the ability to gain security clearances, undertake international travel, and so on?

There's a vetting process for the President, it's called an election ;)

Almost all classification authority flows from the President as the head of the Executive Branch down to the agencies (the notable exception is nuclear stuff, which was done by an act of Congress), so no. For obvious reasons, allowing the agencies to effectively wield a veto that would prevent the President from being able to perform their official duties is a non-starter. As for international travel, even if they do have laws on the books to prevent somebody who committed a few (ok, many) felonies from visiting, it's simply not realistic for countries to bar the leader of arguably the most powerful nation on Earth. Narendra Modi was on a US State Department travel ban for his involvement in the Gujarat Pogrom - then he became Prime Minister so they had to drop it.
posted by ndr at 8:24 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]

Amy93, wait! I'm interested, and glad you posted these links. I think many others would be, too, but this thread is monstrously long — have you seen the newer thread starring Harris?
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:48 PM on July 22 [7 favorites]

Now I have, thank you!
posted by Amy93 at 9:08 PM on July 22 [4 favorites]

it's simply not realistic for countries to bar the leader of arguably the most powerful nation on Earth
Yes, and that's the argument the US loses if he's anywhere near the WH again. His missteps and gaffes the last time he had to interact with other heads of state were unmistakable, because he's profoundly and proudly inexperienced, and not on their level. He was roundly criticized and soundly mocked, and he's added that shame to the skyscraper chip on his shoulder.

His sad, rambling, dictator-fawning RNC acceptance speech promises a country with closed borders, its populace cowering under an iron dome.

That's his grand vision for our future because he has no other options — he's irretrievably weak, and too afraid. Everyone has to stay put, and cringe along with him. It follows that the US cannot be the most powerful nation on Earth if he's chosen to represent it -- and, for a second time!?! That he's a nominee has our fellow citizens of the world embarrassed for us, again, and it's not tinged with pity this time.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:28 PM on July 22 [7 favorites]

It follows that the US cannot be the most powerful nation on Earth if he's chosen to represent it -- and, for a second time!?! That he's a nominee has our fellow citizens of the world embarrassed for us, again, and it's not tinged with pity this time.

Very true - electing him once was alarming, but forgivable. Electing him again, with the full knowledge of how unsuitable he is to be any kind of leader, is likely to see lots of countries turning their back on the US as being unfit to wield the influence it does on the world stage.
posted by dg at 9:35 PM on July 22 [13 favorites]

Brit here. What happens to all the campaign money Biden raised? What is for him or for his party?

If the latter then does Harris (or whoever) inherit it?

If the former then I suppose money in the bank must have to be refunded. If so, how? Last in first out? Pro rata? Something else? What about money spent but not yet used, e.g. forthcoming ad slots. Could these be donated or sold to the new candidate?

Really hoping your election turns out nice, like ours did.
posted by epo at 3:13 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

Beyond the embarrassingly weaker appearance/diminished standing on the world stage, would his criminal record limit the ability to gain security clearances, undertake international travel, and so on?

wait is this part of the sealed train across the border joke? i am so confused.
posted by busted_crayons at 3:32 AM on July 23

What is for him or for his party? "Was it", obviously, I read it and read and read it! This cognitive decline is to show solidarity with the Democratic ex-Presidential candidate, not the current Republican one.
posted by epo at 3:35 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

What happens to all the campaign money Biden raised? What is for him or for his party?

Money has been raised for the campaign and for the party. The money raised for the campaign says "Biden and Harris" everywhere on the paperwork. So most people believe that Harris (and only Harris, absent Biden) can spend it - that's a big part of why she hasn't faced any competition to become to nominee. If another candidate took over, that money would have been donated to the party, but I think it would have become "soft money," to be used only for messages and activities that don't mention a specific candidate. (I believe I read that in one of these megathreads, but can't find the comment or the link.)

Republicans will try to sue over Harris taking it over, of course. But most observers think they have no case. It was always designated for Biden AND Harris.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:40 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

> that money would have been donated to the party, but I think it would have become "soft money,"

soft money kind of died with citizens united since you can give unlimited amounts to PACs now. So the money could be given to a super PAC by the campaign. but that would mean the harris camp would not be allowed to be involved in the decisions about how to spend it and official campaigns get better rates on tv ads than PACs do, so the money goes further (although who sees tv ads anymore? i only see them when i watch jeopardy). i’m certain the harris campaign is pushing the idea that she’s the only one that can take advantage of the money and therefore should be the nominee but if another candidate emerges somehow from the convention with the majority of the delegates i’m sure they’ll figure something out, and in any case it’s long been unclear how much ad spend (where so much of the money goes) impacts the campaign. my belief is that it’s far more important to get a lot of press coverage which is why trump remains so formidable a candidate. he still is able to move the media narrative by being outrageous. harris needs to move the media narrative by being bold, proposing sweeping reforms that will reverse this country’s current decline, and by being explicit about how terrible trump is, no nonsense about decorum and deference to a former president. headlines that show strength resolve and character, that’s how you win
posted by dis_integration at 6:06 AM on July 23

I dunno. I was trying to repeat what I'd read... somewhere. But googling "soft money DNC" and "soft money DNC Biden" does turn up some results that suggest the term is still in use today, though maybe it means something a little different now than it did pre-Citizens United.

This link seems to suggest that there are still some restrictions on how money which is not donated directly to a candidate's campaign can be used in promoting that candidate.

Crucially, soft money is given to a political party and not a particular candidate, as the [Federal Election Campaign] Act says that soft money cannot be used by a party to promote an individual.

While soft money is donated to political parties, and can't be used to support federal candidates, it can be utilized for party-building activities. And the line between party building and supporting federal candidates can be very thin.

Those links are both from this year.

On the other hand, MSNBC says:

the Democratic Party [...] could spend the money supporting the party's nominee. Not all of that spending could be coordinated with the nominee's campaign, and the Democratic Party's spending might face higher costs than the campaign which is legally entitled to heavily-discounted television advertising rates in the last 60 days before an election."

posted by OnceUponATime at 6:42 AM on July 23

Re the money: plus, you know, the FEC doesn’t have much of a reputation for acting expeditiously.
posted by notyou at 6:52 AM on July 23 [4 favorites]

JD Vance repeatedly indicated in 2016 that he believed Donald Trump had committed sexual assault

Ohio Sen. JD Vance, the Republican vice presidential nominee, repeatedly indicated in 2016 that he believed Donald Trump had committed sexual assault, even suggesting in one TV segment that in a “he said, she said” situation Trump was less credible than one of his accusers.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:48 AM on July 23 [5 favorites]

To be fair the only reason he thought that is because he had been witched by a childless cat lady
posted by phunniemee at 7:49 AM on July 23 [8 favorites]

He’s since changed his mind on sexual assault being bad.
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on July 23 [4 favorites]

Moral Integrity
No sexual assault

oh, that should read

Moral Integrity?
No, sexual assault.
posted by cmfletcher at 8:02 AM on July 23 [5 favorites]

Trump loves seeing his former critics bend the knee, because it makes him seem more powerful.

So, I'm not sure how helpful it is to point out what Vance used to say about Trump.
posted by cheshyre at 8:25 AM on July 23

It's easier to criticize Trump on an issue if his own vice presidential pick has attacked him on the same issue.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:32 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

The general attitude of the GOP and the media on this has always been “it doesn’t matter” so I don’t see it hurting Trump much. May make Vance squirm. Pretty sure things are going to end badly for him anyway - you can’t be bootlicker to two masters.
posted by Artw at 8:35 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

She likes jazz, and now anchovies?

That's it. I'm writing in the Monster Raving Loony Party on my ballot.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:22 AM on July 22

Eponysterical
posted by Reverend John at 8:37 AM on July 23 [4 favorites]

METAFILTER: he had been witched by a childless cat lady
posted by philip-random at 10:12 AM on July 23 [4 favorites]

To be fair the only reason he thought that is because he had been witched by a childless cat lady

Or hopped up on Diet Mountain Dew.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:17 AM on July 23

It's easier to criticize Trump on an issue if his own vice presidential pick has attacked him on the same issue.

Remember (aging myself) how George H. Bush's quip during the 1979 primaries that Reagan's trickle down theories were "Voodoo Economics"? That quote followed Bush for years, even in Republican circles, partially because he did end up as Reagan's VP, and partially because it was true.

I suspect Vance's critique of Trump, though it is currently overtaken by events, will have legs.
posted by Rumple at 10:34 AM on July 23 [8 favorites]

All thanks to Joe for his years of service and placing country before personal ambition.

But. He says he’s going to address the nation later this week. That’s OK. You don’t need to. Really.

I love the guy, but I don’t want any more news time spent on him. Unless he’s kicking some fascist a** with executive orders.
posted by marxchivist at 10:47 AM on July 23 [2 favorites]

It's easier to criticize Trump on an issue if his own vice presidential pick has attacked him on the same issue.

The general attitude of the GOP and the media on this has always been “it doesn’t matter” so I don’t see it hurting Trump much.

To be really really really cynical (or realistic, YMMV) about this, a major goal for the Harris campaign and Democrats in general is that they have to convince white women that Trump and Vance are so creepy and weird that it will override their reluctance to vote for a Black person/ a woman/ someone who might raise their taxes/ someone who their husband will get angry and ranty about/ whichever other excuses they come up with.

Constantly hammering on the point that his own running mate considered him a Sex Pest is IMO a valuable tool for doing that.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:57 AM on July 23 [3 favorites]

All thanks to Joe for his years of service and placing country before personal ambition.
…
I love the guy

posted by marxchivist

What's the opposite of eponysterical?
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:02 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]

epoxymoron?
posted by JHarris at 12:08 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]

someone who might raise their taxes
I understand the context of this in your larger point, and I fully expect you have a longer more nuanced opinion, so I am not picking on you...

But if Dems do not positively fucking hammer that the Project 2025 "tax simplification" plan will demonstrably increase taxes for working people and most middle class people, I will just start going to public places with a sandwich board and screaming about it myself, I swear to fucking gawd.

They have given you a GIFT, Dems: a document specifying regular folks will pay more in taxes. Fucking use it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:36 PM on July 23 [22 favorites]

I also don't know why the Dems don't spend more time highlights of that they tried to forgive our student loans. Let Kamala tell a crowd an estimated figure for how much the people in that room were slated to have forgiven before the GOP fucked it up.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:49 PM on July 23 [6 favorites]

Maybe people are tired of hearing dems say “we tried really hard to do this thing, but we couldn’t! Anyway if you elect us again we promise this is the time we’ll really do it”. Probably not a good campaign move to remind everyone of that
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:50 PM on July 23 [12 favorites]

Maybe. But I think "We did this for you but they stole it away" is pretty solid.

I told a GOP canvasser their party owes me X thousand dollars for that student loan bullshit before they can even come to my door again, not because I think it's the most important issue but because I suspected heating that said out loud like that would leave them shook. (It did.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:26 PM on July 23 [21 favorites]

ONE THOUSAND COMMENTS!

AH-HAH-HAH!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:58 PM on July 23 [8 favorites]

Re: Liz Cheney. You can't be a good Nazi. It just doesn't work, it's impossible. If someone looks at Trumpism and only objects to the worst of the absolute worst, you're not against Trumpism. Any pretending that the party can be redeemed is delusional. You don't stay a Republican. You change affliction and be an independent or contrarian or something. Whig. I don't know. Bull moose. Not Republicans.
posted by Jacen at 4:03 PM on July 23 [10 favorites]

It's really high time we stopped being relieved and impressed by people who want fascism, but want it at a speed that doesn't feel gauche when it comes up at dinner parties.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:34 PM on July 23 [15 favorites]

But. He says he’s going to address the nation later this week. That’s OK. You don’t need to. Really.

but what if it's like that time Obama cut in to tell us all Bin Laden had been dealt with, shot dead and dumped into the ocean? Except this time it's Trump, but don't worry about it being against the law or whatever, because President Biden personally ordered it, which makes it totally legit ... doesn't it?
posted by philip-random at 5:49 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

They have given you a GIFT, Dems: a document specifying regular folks will pay more in taxes. Fucking use it.

Harris hammered this in her Milwaukee speech, including the excellent "Can you believe they put this in writing?" line. Definitely hoping to see others pick up and run with this.
posted by brook horse at 6:28 PM on July 23 [13 favorites]

makes it totally legit ... doesn't it?

I get that this is hyperbole highlighting the absurdity of the presidential immunity ruling, but fantasizing about political violence, especially in light of recent events, isn't ok.
posted by Reverend John at 8:19 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

I get that this is hyperbole highlighting the absurdity of the presidential immunity ruling, but fantasizing about political violence, especially in light of recent events, isn't ok.

I'm a pacifist. I do not advocate killing anyone in cold blood.

That said, there are a lot of people for whom this particular act would amount to self-defense. I'm not going to tut at people who stand a very real chance of losing their lives, freedoms, or families for imagining their persecutors dead.

Even though at this point a dead Trump is likely more dangerous than a live one who can keep being a vulgar idiot who reminds people of what his party has become.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:10 AM on July 24 [4 favorites]

Trying to frame assassinating politicians as "self-defense" is textbook normalisation of political violence, let's not do that.
posted by Klipspringer at 3:20 AM on July 24 [3 favorites]

Political violence is already normalized in this culture. It is political violence when fascists and cops beat kids protesting genocide. It is political violence when doctors are threatened with prison or financial ruin or murder to stop them from providing life saving care. It is political violence when food is taken from the mouths of the poor, medicine is taken from the sick, and when freedom is taken from people for the crime of having no shelter.

I am not going to pretend that fantasizing about sending asylum seekers to die at the hands of fascists we have enpowered, or women dying because they can't be treated for ectopic pregnancy, or funding racist and murderous gangs of cops in our cities is some difference of opinion that can be abided. Or that we can support or oppose attacking a nation to arrest or kill its leaders is within acceptable discourse. But imagining a president giving the same order for a home grown fascist is beyond the pale.

No one should physically attack Donald Trump. It makes the awful things he wants to do more likely. But chiding people for imagining it is hypocritical, given what we stomach as a nation.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:30 AM on July 24 [19 favorites]

I tend to agree on that, pattern juggler. The thing about "If you say that, you're as bad as they are!" is that it's transparently not always true. There isn't a thing a person could have said in Germany in 1937 that would have made them as bad as Hitler. A dozen demons workshopping that 24/7 for a century couldn't have come up with something for you to say that would make you as bad.

I don't mind the nudges from well-meaning folks to keep our better selves engaged, but if someone slips on that for a second, I think we can muster a little more benefit of the doubt than to call them part of the problem.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:10 AM on July 24 [11 favorites]

Unless I'm missing something, this notion that Kamala Harris was "tough on crime" is extremely misinformed.

I think, and I say this gently, this is one of those things where big-tent Democrats sometimes have difficulty understanding each other.

I am pleased it’s Harris over Biden; but I am always going to find serious moral failings in a prosecutor, because to be a prosecutor requires you to be complicit in a morally bankrupt system. It requires you to let people sit in jails that are essentially locations of torture, until they are pressured enough to sign plea bargains before exculpatory evidence even *exists*, whether or not they are guilty of the charges, because you know that your office doesn’t have the resources to try all the cases before you. It requires you to overcharge cases so that when you lower the charges for your plea bargain, people won’t feel like you are “soft on crime”.

Nothing you have said has contradicted that. The fact that Kamala Harris may have prosecuted *less* people doesn’t mean she wasn’t still complicit in a morally bankrupt system in order to secure her own personal and professional advancement.

She’s still better than Biden, and better than Trump, and unlike Biden, I think she can actually win. But man, that doesn’t mean I’m going to be turning *backflips*.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on July 24 [19 favorites]

I put this in another thread but it's relevant here too.

Tim Maughan on Bluesky:

“there’s no justification for political violence” is a thing people that don’t understand climate change say

posted by adrienneleigh at 10:37 AM on July 24 [6 favorites]

I don't think even the people who say there is no justification for political violence believe it. It's just something to say when you don't want to have to actually think.

It's particularly galling when American pols and pundits and journalists put it out there. Like, people, you understand that our founding document is literally one long justification for engaging in political violence? "When in the course of human events..." and so on? What precisely do you think that meant?
posted by Justinian at 10:39 AM on July 24 [10 favorites]

Most revolutions don't turn out as well as the American revolution. Ask the French under Napoleon or the Russians under Stalin. And even the American revolution only turned out well for some people. Others had to wait until 1865 or 1919...

Maybe there is sometimes justification for political violence. But it doesn't often work for making the world more just.

Because as I was saying in the Hareis thread... Once you establish that political conflicts can be settled by violence, you'll find that means policy gets made by the people who are best at violence.

That usually isn't the poor, the disabled, the minorities.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:20 AM on July 24 [9 favorites]

"Hareis thread" = "Harris thread"
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:33 AM on July 24

I said the allegedly pro-violence thing that got this little sidetrack rolling. It was entirely intended as an ironic swing at the malevolent absurdity of the Supreme Court's recent decision.

I'm pretty much a pacifist. I certainly believe that pretty much everything that can be done to avoid political violence should be. And this includes, no, don't go punching fascists. Don't plan on it anyway. I suspect sometimes it just happens.

Anyway, the one situation where I suspect I'm not a pacifist is the "fascist hordes are massacring down my street" situation. I suspect I'd do what any suitably provoked primate would do in such a situation. I'd grab whatever tool was handy and defend myself and those I love, to the death if necessary.
posted by philip-random at 12:15 PM on July 24 [6 favorites]

Make Political Violence Less Justifiable Again.
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on July 24 [4 favorites]

I don't think Biden couldn't win. We're still three months out, polls has been becoming less and less accurate, and Trump gave us all a lot of reasons to vote against him. I think he could have won just on not being the hugely obviously wrong choice. But that said, I really like the choice of Kamala Harris. (BTW, I'm not black or a woman, and while I am a Harris I'm not related)
posted by JHarris at 1:31 PM on July 24 [6 favorites]

I was talking to someone the other day about this whole thing and I told them I had a pretty strong memory of Biden in 2019-ish saying he was running to be a transitional president and stating, or at least strongly implying, that he would only serve one term.

Does this ring a bell for anyone? Google is confused about Biden's second term now.
posted by Rumple at 1:59 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]

My impression is that once you notify people that you're only going to do one term, you end up with "lame duck" problems. It behooves a president to not indicate one term before he absolutely has to.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:02 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

He did say that, but people were kinda mad about it and it hurt his primary campaign. Better to have a candidate who could take advantage of being the incumbent in 2024, right? So he walked it back.

But anyway, Google news lets you search in a specific date range, so you can find a bunch of coverage using this search.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:05 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

OK thanks, seems like it was his advisers strongly implying, though this is from Dec 2019. All the same, the optics are not good. From the above link:

"Former Vice President Joe Biden’s top advisers and prominent Democrats outside the Biden campaign have recently revived a long-running debate whether Biden should publicly pledge to serve only one term, with Biden himself signaling to aides that he would serve only a single term."
....
"According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president.

“If Biden is elected,” a prominent adviser to the campaign said, “he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection.”

The adviser argued that public acknowledgment of that reality could help Biden mollify younger voters, especially on the left, who are unexcited by his candidacy and fear that his nomination would serve as an eight-year roadblock to the next generation of Democrats."
....
A top Biden adviser said Biden ruled out a one-term pledge when the issue was raised before he even entered the race. “He said it was a nonstarter,” the adviser said, adding that Biden believed it was a “gimmick.”

But Biden’s public statements on running for reelection have shifted over the course of the campaign.

In April, when asked whether he would serve just one term, Biden responded, “No.” More recently, Biden has been ambiguous. In October, The Associated Press reported that when “asked whether he would pledge to only serve one term if elected, Biden said he wouldn’t make such a promise but noted he wasn’t necessarily committed to seeking a second term if elected in 2020.”
posted by Rumple at 2:16 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

Joe Biden positions himself as ‘bridge’ to next generation at Michigan rally, 10 March 2020:

Turning to his newest high-profile endorsers at a raucous rally in Detroit on Monday night, Biden indicated the younger African American senators Kamala Harris of California and Cory Booker of New Jersey onstage with him, who both recently saw their hopes of becoming the 2020 nominee dashed.

“Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else,” Biden said. “There’s an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. They are the future of this country.”

The Bros of Political Media Are Real Mad at One Another About Whether Joe Biden Promised to Serve One Term

posted by kirkaracha at 2:31 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president
But then subsequent events left his advisers with the view that he was the best, maybe only, hope of beating Trump, so he felt beholden to continue the fight. Turns out he was only the best choice for one term and maybe should have done better about putting the next President forward throughout that term.
posted by dg at 4:15 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

"What is the Tendency of the late Innovations? The Severity, the Cruelty of the late Revenue Laws, and the Terrors of the formidable Engine, contrived to execute them, the Court of Admiralty? Is not the natural and necessary Tendency of these Innovations, to introduce dark Intrigues, Insincerity, Simulation, Bribery and Perjury, among Custom house officers, Merchants, Masters, Mariners and their Servants?
What is the Tendency, what has been the Effect of introducing a standing Army into our Metropolis? Have we not seen horrid Rancour, furious Violence, infernal Cruelty, shocking Impiety and Profanation, and shameless, abandoned Debauchery, running down the Streets like a Stream?"

-John Adams, 1772.
posted by clavdivs at 4:35 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

I liked Biden's speech tonight. Quiet, but a bit moving. He outlined the stakes we are all facing without actually attacking anyone. Exactly how a President should act when they're acting as President and not as a candidate.

Respect, Joe.
posted by wierdo at 5:34 PM on July 24 [15 favorites]

It felt like the kind of sobering but inspiring "history is in our hands" speech that a president might give in wartime, but he was very careful not to name the threat.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:10 PM on July 24 [7 favorites]

Feels like Dems including Biden have an idea of the stakes now. It’s refreshing.
posted by Artw at 6:38 PM on July 24 [9 favorites]

Agreed that it was a quiet, personal, and respectful-but-urgent speech.

At the same time, I also felt that "yeah, he....really wouldn't have been able to withstand a second term." He did the right thing, and I think he knows he did.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 PM on July 24 [4 favorites]

Just watched Biden's address: he's gutted, and I hate to see him that way. He's done an honorable thing, but man it ain't pretty
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:16 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]

He deserves to be in the Hague, with every other American president. He can cry into his millions of dollars of net worth while he lives in the nice house that everyone else's taxes pay for and count himself fucking lucky.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:52 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I feel like "we paid the President a salary out of government coffers" is like the worst criticism one can level at a President, particularly when next to the war crimes thing. Perhaps unpopular opinion: paying high level government employees high salaries is a good thing, actually.
posted by Justinian at 9:25 PM on July 24 [6 favorites]

Justinian: I'm not talking about his salary as President, i'm talking about the millions of dollars he has from spending decades as the Senator for Citibank.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:29 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

Please...

Ugh. He has done more for the Democrats than any President in a long time. Not the orator that Obama was, which gave us all Hope, but he accomplished more. Get that you hate him, but, he did more good things for our country than a lot of other presidents.

Are you perfect and a politician?
posted by Windopaene at 10:44 PM on July 24 [6 favorites]

Transcript: Biden’s speech explaining why he withdrew from the 2024 presidential race (AP, 7/24/24)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:06 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

I'm neither perfect nor a politician, but i'm also not an enthusiastic supporter of people who cook the planet for money OR of people who systematically double-tap babies in the head with sniper rifles, so i feel perfectly confident in saying that i am morally superior to Joseph Robinette Biden!
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:08 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

as my Grandma would've said, "you were a better person than him right up until you said you were."
posted by philip-random at 11:10 PM on July 24 [11 favorites]

Also, Justinian: i am perfectly fine with the idea of paying government officials high salaries! It's a great idea! As long as (a) we strengthen bribery & graft laws; (b) they're not allowed to own or trade any securities while they're in office, period (if pressed, i will grudgingly make an exception for index funds and government bonds); and (c) we completely close the lobbyist-politician revolving door!
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:11 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

philip-random: I don't think that follows. I'm a better person than, say, Adolf Hitler, regardless of whether i say i am or not. (I'm also a vastly worse person than, say, Aaron Bushnell. I'm not claiming to be morally superior to all or even most people, but i'm definitely morally superior to genocidaires and baby-murderers.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:12 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

so i feel perfectly confident in saying that i am morally superior to Joseph Robinette Biden!

This is a weird comment.
posted by ichomp at 11:53 PM on July 24 [10 favorites]

Anyway.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:34 AM on July 25 [7 favorites]

> Free headline idea for any news org that wants it:
> DEMS IN ARRAY

Dems in array: Handoff from Biden to Harris appears seamless
posted by automatronic at 12:43 AM on July 25 [9 favorites]

Whoever wrote the speech did a good job. Hopefully that's the last we hear from Joe Biden until after the election.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:29 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]

Who's your friend who likes to play? Biden! Biden!
posted by pracowity at 2:00 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]

since i'm less of an asshole irl than on the internet, i mostly held my tongue the other day when my friend expressed that he was disappointed to see our previous member of parliament lose her seat in the election a few weeks back, because he liked her personally (reader: he does not know her personally), even though he voted for her opponent (who won) from the party with the actually decent policy stuff in the manifesto. what i did say to my friend is: i have met the previous mp for a few seconds at some public events, and, like on the few other occasions where i have briefly met someone in that sort of position, i got to see her do the special facial expression that people who briefly meet unmanageable numbers of people do when they are performing the mental calculation to answer the questions "is it to my advantage to know this person?" and "is it to my disadvantage to be seen next to this person?". that's just how it is obviously going to work.

but it does make it a little weird to think and feel about politicians (whom one knows through layers of highly mediated one-way communication and image-management) the way one thinks and feels about people with whom one actually has human interactions.

and it is frustrating that the emotional attachments people form as part of these parasocial relationships are not usually dismissed as vulgar sentimentalism, while well-founded outrage at the things that get done to people as a result of politicians' decisions is often so dismissed.

when adults get into parasocial relationships with public figures, to the extent that they feel the need to be nasty to people with whom they, hopefully, share large scale goals (like not dying fighting fascists on a burning planet), rather than abide even obviously correct criticism of the (now-irrelevant, in the case of biden) object of their parasocial adulation, it is really fucking weird. joe biden doesn't have a "good heart" in a way anyone should care about, neither does kamala harris, and it doesn't fucking matter. those are the wrong terms to be thinking in. those people are where they are out of god only knows what personal motivations that normally powerful people like us probably cannot understand or relate to. they are not your friends. they don't have friends.

you vote for them if that's going to contribute epsilon to some goal that needs achieving, and then you get in the streets or do something else that contributes epsilon to pressure on them once they're in office. those two things are the beginning and end of pragmatic engagement with elected officials.

you can like them or "respect" them or whatever, but those stan culture feelings are not important enough to justify the non-pragmatic thing of condescending to, and alienating, actual interlocutors whose broad-strokes political goals you share (at least the goals on the table in the immediate future).

(on review: or do some of you not share the goal of a US that can not only correctly identify vladimir putin as a bad actor but also refrain from inviting benjamin netanyahu to shit up the peoples' house, as happened just yesterday?)

joe biden is no longer a factor. you do not have to defend his record to critics. being dismissive of his critics, whose meaningful engagement with elected officials is likely to be essentially the same as yours, is bad politics. there might be unbridgeable gaps between someone like adrienneleigh (or me) and the majority of the people here. but those gaps are mainly not expressible in the limited vocabulary offered by the electoral system: i'm going to vote for democrats, and that is the majority position among most of the people i know who are able to vote in the US and whose political commitments resemble mine.

(it could be that circumstances arise where organised threats of refusal to vote for democrats makes strategic sense, as with the uncommitted thing in the primaries; this does not seem currently to be the case in the presidential election --- the switch from biden to harris, problematic as her administration is likely to be, was an extremely canny move from the point of view of getting the US anti-current-genocide vote onside, and it is up to the democrats whether they wish to take that win or piss it away.)

whether or not we share in fawning over politicians personally is irrelevant, and it is actually bad politics to behave in a way that alienates people whose actual meaningful participation in the system is most likely the one you want. like: why can't you sentimentalists be more pragmatic?

(adrienneleigh, who does in fact give every indication of being an excellent person, is probably owed, i would say, not an apology but maybe some attempt to listen to what they are saying without baiting and dismissiveness.)
posted by busted_crayons at 3:36 AM on July 25 [11 favorites]

Mod note: Couple of comments removed. Please 'allow others to express themselves' and avoid making a thread about a particular user.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:57 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]

honestly, I think the mistake we all too easily (and often) make (certainly I'm guilty of it), is to buy into the popular fantasy that any great human shall arise from the complex and infuriating world of politics and POWER and somehow lead us to the Promised Land (TM) via laws and expenditures and allocations and (all the myriad things our elected officials are empowered to do).

I don't think it works that way. If the law is, as they say, an ass (ie: it moves with annoying slowness), then politics is generally a drunken idiot ass (ie: it moves even slower than the law, with added annoyance in terms of its blunt stupidity and oft times random nastiness). So if we're sitting around waiting for the Great And Virtuous Change to come from (as busted_crayons so eloquently put it) people who "... are where they are out of god only knows what personal motivations that normally powerful people like us probably cannot understand or relate to. they are not your friends. they don't have friends" ... well, I submit, we're doing it wrong.

I think meaningful change, progress (whatever you want to call it) always comes from the culture first, the people, the everyday moms and dads and uncles and aunts and teachers and coaches and shopkeepers and neighbours who actually "get it" because they can't help but "get it", they're out fucking in it every day, reconciling a reality that's rife with myriad and complex confusions and collisions and explosions and arguments and demands and counter-demands ... sometimes even agreements. Even if its just agreeing to disagree, to not opt for some nuclear option but rather to keep on keeping on, and if we do find ourselves on fire with rage at some very real injustice or wrong that feels so egregious that yes, somebody must pay, must be punished ... well, take it to the stage, form a band or whatever, make a righteous noise -- whatever works for you, whatever burns the fucking bridge without, you know, actually burning it.

Anyway, as Winston Churchill put it, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". So yeah, unless we've got some inner fascist pulling our levers, we're stuck with this absurdly imperfect beast. Which at best, will wander onto the scene long after some fabulously complex issue has been reconciled by actual everyday people ... and make it official, take credit for it, make a few speeches, kiss a few babies, yadda-yadda-yadda.

And the thing is, hate this whole "class" of people all you want, but don't delude yourself, we do need them. They're part of the big strange amusing appalling (and everything in between) game we're all playing one way or another. And thus we're stuck with them ... ... until something better comes along. But like old Winston, I'm not sitting around on my ass expecting it anytime soon.
posted by philip-random at 9:14 AM on July 25 [4 favorites]

The Green Lantern Theory of the Presidency, explained

According to Brendan Nyhan, the Dartmouth political scientist who coined the term, the Green Lantern Theory of the Presidency is “the belief that the president can achieve any political or policy objective if only he tries hard enough or uses the right tactics.” In other words, the American president is functionally all-powerful, and whenever he can’t get something done, it’s because he’s not trying hard enough, or not trying smart enough.

Nyhan further separates it into two variants: “the Reagan version of the Green Lantern Theory and the LBJ version of the Green Lantern Theory.” The Reagan version, he says, holds that “if you only communicate well enough the public will rally to your side.” The LBJ version says that “if the president only tried harder to win over congress they would vote through his legislative agenda.” In both cases, Nyhan argues, “we’ve been sold a false bill of goods.”

Teddy Roosevelt, for contrast:

The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 AM on July 25 [20 favorites]