"This is preaching to the choir, but the choir needs to sing"
August 6, 2024 7:15 AM Subscribe

Just sixteen days after Joe Biden withdrew from the 2024 election, and less than a week after securing the nomination herself, Kamala Harris has officially announced her running mate: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. A true dark horse candidate, Walz emerged from a crowded field of hopefuls, including astronaut and senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, popular Kentucky governor Andy Beshear, and runner-up Gov. Josh Shapiro of critical swing state Pennsylvania. The affable Walz -- a former schoolteacher, National Guardsman, and chair of the Democratic Governors Association -- has a track record of winning in conservative terrain and delivering progressive victories despite slim legislative margins. He's also proven to be an extraordinarily effective communicator, winning over skeptics with folksy Midwestern charm and coining a catchphrase -- "weird" -- that captured the zeitgeist and pithily summed up everything wrong with Trump-era Republicans. Walz will join Harris at a debut rally in Philadelphia tonight (awkward), with the Democratic National Convention starting in two weeks and plans for a VP debate with JD Vance still up in the air.

VF: “We Don’t Know How Long We Have”: Minnesota Democrats Are Passing as Many Progressive Laws as They Can

NYMag: Why Are Minnesota Democrats So Progressive?

NYT: Once Backed by the N.R.A., Tim Walz Now Champions Tighter Gun Controls

Axios: Inside the "quiet diplomacy" in Congress for Tim Walz as VP

@MNGovernor: My daughter, Hope, tricked me into doing the most extreme ride at the Minnesota State Fair.

Walz's inspiring 2018 ad: It's Halftime in Minnesota

posted by Rhaomi (1514 comments total) 103 users marked this as a favorite

It's official!
posted by Rhaomi at 7:16 AM on August 6 [24 favorites]

A vote for Harris is a vote for Flanagan! (That's a good thing.)
posted by nickmark at 7:17 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

Oh, so it's true? Thank God.
posted by valkane at 7:19 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

Gov. Tim Walz adopts rescue cat named Honey
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on August 6 [40 favorites]

I'm happier than I thought he'd be. He's a really good guy.

Here's a nice biography of Walz from Minnesota Public Radio that they clearly put together in advance just in case this were to happen...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:20 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

I am so relieved and happy to hear this!
posted by ichomp at 7:20 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Tim Walz riding the Slingshot at the Minnesota State Fair
posted by box at 7:20 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Phew.

Kelly needs to keep the Senate, and Shapiro needs to do some soul searching and start pushing for charges against Netanyahu before I'll forgive him.
posted by constraint at 7:21 AM on August 6 [30 favorites]

After the hellscape of the last eight years, I find myself completely emotionally unprepared for a world where things I hope for actually happen.
posted by FallibleHuman at 7:22 AM on August 6 [202 favorites]

also multi-time winner of the congressional hotdish competition.
posted by Clowder of bats at 7:23 AM on August 6 [34 favorites]

LETS FUCKIN' GO!
posted by lalochezia at 7:23 AM on August 6 [38 favorites]

Hotdish for the uninitiated
posted by nathan_teske at 7:23 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

YES. LFG.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:23 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

One of the things that I've been impressed by over the past couple weeks is that it looks like the Democrats have finally learned how to fight in today's landscape. I didn't know that "weird" was Walz's idea and didn't find out until a moment ago - and I'm even more delighted with the pick than I was earlier.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 AM on August 6 [78 favorites]

He is my governor and can 100% endorse him. A great governor and a great VP pick. Now let's beat those weirdos!
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:24 AM on August 6 [53 favorites]

Walz is a great choice!
posted by djseafood at 7:24 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

The "weird" thing alone is enough to win me over!
posted by obfuscation at 7:26 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Tim Walz riding the Slingshot at the Minnesota State Fair

Peak dad joke: "[Hope] I'm vegetarian. [Gov Walz] Turkey, then."
posted by Slothrup at 7:26 AM on August 6 [35 favorites]

My friend posted a pic of her with Walz (I think she was in the middle of a road race!) and he definitely exudes "Big Dad Energy!"* One of the comments on her post is that her Facebook feed is pic after pic of folks in Mankato with Walz just like that one!

*A person on Threads said "Kamala doesn't need a dad." That person missed the point of what Dad Energy is. This kind of dad isn't the boss, he's a supporter (who is very prepared to help if you mess this up though.)
posted by vespabelle at 7:26 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Kind of astonishing, really, a ticket to vote for; not the least worst, perhaps the most best.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:27 AM on August 6 [76 favorites]

:-)
posted by Pouteria at 7:27 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

On the bit about claiming credit for "weird" , I thought the impetus for this was Kamala Harris saying she would've challenged Trump at a debate by asking him why he was being so weird?.

It feels like this stuff was low-key being signaled in circles as a potential idea before Walz said it. Is it mostly that he took the opportunity to be the first to try it out, and that gave everyone else permission to go with it?

Which, if so, if the VP is supposed to be the "attack dog" that's a hell of an audition.
posted by bl1nk at 7:27 AM on August 6 [33 favorites]

I'm glad Shapiro is not the VP candidate because he's my governor and all things considered he's been doing a good job. We didn't need him yoinked out of his elected position.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:27 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

What happens to Minnesota politics now? No big concerns for Democrats in the state.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:28 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

I'm so relieved and pleased. Both because Walz is the pick that lets the waves of joy and excitement and relief keep rolling, which I think has been key to the campaign's astonishing momentum so far and will be key to winning in November, and also because this decision shows that Kamala Harris has good political instincts and is willing to listen to progressives/the youth/unions/Arab-Americans, even when doing so means bucking the centrist/corporate Dem establishment.
posted by overglow at 7:28 AM on August 6 [77 favorites]

She picked right. Well played, that Harris.
posted by flabdablet at 7:29 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

Finally! Everyone will be happy now.
posted by mazola at 7:29 AM on August 6 [32 favorites]

Democrats in ~~dis~~array
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:29 AM on August 6 [61 favorites]

Finally! Everyone will be happy now.

:-/ I did a guffaw
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:30 AM on August 6 [16 favorites]

A few weeks ago I showed a single Walz clip to some of my coworkers, all Buttigieg fans, and won them over almost immediately. All people 30 and under. The future looks bright.
posted by brook horse at 7:30 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

Gov. Tim Walz adopts rescue cat named Honey

Pandering to lock up the Jorts vote!
posted by mittens at 7:31 AM on August 6 [63 favorites]

I don't even know how to be a Democrat without starting from a place of sheepishness and embarrassment. This is a strange feeling.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:31 AM on August 6 [77 favorites]

I kinda can't believe it
posted by kensington314 at 7:33 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Buttigieg was the one I was rooting for, but any disappointment I felt is rapidly evaporating as I learn more about Walz. He definitely sounds like a good man and a solid choice.

And when I look at photos of Walz and Kamala Harris, it is just flabbergasting me that they're the same age.
posted by orange swan at 7:33 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

I'm told "who would America most like to get a beer with" is an important consideration and buddy I think Governor Walz has got that all locked up. Harris is pretty good on that front too - she doesn't seem like she'd drink beer but she seems like your fun aunt.

It does seem like what tipped it was that people Walz has worked with like him a lot, which tells you the power of being a nice person that people want to work with. Will leftists on X (formerly Twitter) take a lesson from this? Or will they continue to yell at people who mostly agree with them

The Democratic convention is still ahead, polls are looking good, the messaging looks like it's cutting through. Good luck, America. We're all counting on you.
posted by Merus at 7:33 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Lets just say that my number one concern right now is that the Secret Service keeps these people alive, because [i'm taking anxiety medication and have a life-long history of catastrophising].
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:33 AM on August 6 [28 favorites]

It is certainly a nice change to see the Democrats saying and doing things that are to the right of what I support but not actually, literally rewritten GOP talking points.

I can certainly criticize Walz but one thing I will absolutely say - he is a good communicator who is not afraid to be direct and speak in ordinary language and on a moral valence. (This is also what Trump does, albeit in reverse - he's not a good communicator to us, but he's a genius communicator to the base.) Walz is very good at saying things like "we are providing free school lunches to all children because it's the right thing to do, thinking that kids should go hungry is not what Minnesota is about".

He has been very consistent about framing things as "what we do in Minnesota", which is frankly extremely good messaging around here. Minnesota has a strong though contested identity - are we a white rural state with "traditional" values, are we a dynamic banking/development state looking to bring in big developers and tech money and pump real estate values, or are we a state where we have valuable traditions and welcome newcomers to add their own thing? Are we a hotdish state, an expense account restaurant state or a potluck state where we all bring something to share?

Walz is absolutely the potluck state guy and I think that's helpful in-state and good nationally.
posted by Frowner at 7:33 AM on August 6 [78 favorites]

I think I'm feeling...not-despair? Is that a thing?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:33 AM on August 6 [51 favorites]

I feel, this is weird, but I feel happy about an important decision made in the upper levels of the Democratic Party, and it’s taking some time to process this. I was sure they were going to pick Kelly if not Shapiro. Hot damn.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:34 AM on August 6 [35 favorites]

This is such fantastic news, I'm over the Moon about it, could have sworn it would be Shapiro for electoral vote reasons, which would have been understandable.

But I'm so glad that it is Walz, the guy seems ON POINT for what's needed in America at this time and I'm all in!

Side note: It hasn't been a month since Biden dropped out on July 21. The years that have passed since then have been wild and scary at times, but hot damn if doesn't seem like everything is turning out to be a great fucking deal now!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 AM on August 6 [58 favorites]

I don't even know how to be a Democrat without starting from a place of sheepishness and embarrassment. This is a strange feeling.

I was just saying to a friend I feel like I've escaped an abusive relationship and am re-learning the rules of normal human interaction and being baffled about it when people don't kick me while I'm down.
posted by brook horse at 7:35 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

I am then imagining them unlocking the room and finding that the advisors dug a tunnel through the floorboards with their bare hands in order to escape.

one of them gnawed his own leg off, it didn't help him escape the room or anything, he was just that verklempt
posted by taquito sunrise at 7:36 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

Also rarely mentioned is that Minnesota shares a 547-mile border with the Canadian provinces of Manitoba and Ontario. There are 8 border crossings in MN, AZ is only 354 miles of Border

BORDER STATE GOV.
posted by djseafood at 7:37 AM on August 6 [52 favorites]

Genuinely so relieved that I got a bit teary-eyed. Let the good vibes keep rolling!
posted by yasaman at 7:37 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Damn democrats 2/2 on making Actual Good Decisions for the campaign...feels good!
posted by windbox at 7:37 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Ninety days till election. Feels good to be excited.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:40 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

The official swag has been updated.
posted by terrapin at 7:41 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Several comments removed. Please kill the derail about how others might feel about this choice and let people speak for themselves.

Those who like this choice are free to speak and those who have reservations about the choice of any political candidate are free to voice any concerns they might have.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:41 AM on August 6 [30 favorites]

if you dunk for long upon the Left, the Left dunks also upon you

If I entered a leftist gathering and did not witness copious dunking on the left I would immediately become suspicious. It's one of our most ~~endearing~~ enduring characteristics!
posted by brook horse at 7:41 AM on August 6 [33 favorites]

I got scooped by a text from Debbie Mucarsel-Powell (up against ~~Skeletor~~Rick Scott), read it twice, and bounced over here to see if it was true. It is! Yay Walz!
posted by cmyk at 7:42 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

A vote for Harris is a vote for Flanagan! (That's a good thing.)

Because Peggy Flanagan would be the first Native American woman governor. Learn more about her here.
posted by ALeaflikeStructure at 7:42 AM on August 6 [30 favorites]

It's the "Cool Aunt/Fun Dad" ticket!
posted by Kibbutz at 7:43 AM on August 6 [63 favorites]

I think right now that Vance and Thiel are in a dark room trying to figure out how to replace Trump on the ticket.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:44 AM on August 6 [20 favorites]

I am then imagining them unlocking the room and finding that the advisors dug a tunnel through the floorboards with their bare hands in order to escape

Turns out the floor was concrete, and what they actually found on unlocking that room was Bannon looking a bit glazed and halfway through a massive belch, with nobody else left and just a tiny bit of Miller stuck to the front of one of his shirts
posted by flabdablet at 7:44 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

> The official swag has been updated.

i see

harris
walz

and i really wanna stick a the above it. let's dance.
posted by Clowder of bats at 7:45 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

just asking a favor as an appeal to the community

To avoid derailing here, I've just submitted a MetaTalk post where we can discuss calls for solely smiley-faced contributions in U.S. political threads.
posted by mediareport at 7:46 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

I am imagining Trump advisors right now being locked into a conference room, tasked with finding a replacement for Vance who has mainstream appeal and will attract swing voters but is also a GOP stalwart, a strong conservative and someone who won't cause riots amongst the MAGA base.

No, I don't think Vance can be removed from the ticket. Politically, it would be suicide, and we're coming up on state deadlines where ballots are frozen. So unless someone dies, he's there to the end.

But as I said in the previous thread, Vance's obvious weaknesses only look worse compared to Walz. He was selected thinking he would go against Harris and now he has to go against a retired Sergeant Major, former high school teacher/football coach, very Midwestern Dad.

Since it will be impossible to get him off the ticket, I predict that Vance will be minimized by the campaign as much as possible. Since he cannot help the ticket, all they can do is try to prevent him from hurting it.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:47 AM on August 6 [24 favorites]

> replace trump

It can't be that hard to fill a blue suit with orange concealer, the distillation of pure id, Diet Coke, and the smell of an unchanged diaper, can it? There's gotta be dozens of possibilities.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:47 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

This is wonderful! I'm so excited and it's distracting from work as I want to share who this guy is with my dear friends.

To those who have the immediate reaction to catastrophize - I hear you, and I'll say what I say to my dear friends. It's okay. Somewhere deep you've learned not to trust that internal excitement and I'm sorry for that. Go ahead and take a deep breath and savor it a bit. Things are bigger than us and out of our control, so it can be good to just surrender to these moments. And, if you are the hugging type, a big hug from me. I know it can be tough seeing folks jubilant and not feeling like you can quite partake.

To those who are uncomfortable joining the celebration. Yes, there are stray sparks of political commentary. I get that you don't like being told that you need to celebrate the sparklers or be a certain way. From my view, of course you have every right to speak your truth. I just hope we all can learn from the political effectiveness that Tim Walz has shown in that his associates and colleagues actively lobbied for him through back channels. I think you are right in many of your concerns. I hop we can all learn to work with the energy we find ourselves in to build friends and networks to make the change we want to see.

Damn, can I say again, I'm excited!!
posted by meinvt at 7:47 AM on August 6 [40 favorites]

I think right now that Vance and Thiel are in a dark room trying to figure out how to replace Trump on the ticket.

I mean, let's talk about this later, but I think we know that right now, as for the last month, Trump and co. are discussing racist non sequiturs they hope might derail Harris, as well as methods they might use to overturn the result when she wins. Vance is sitting outside like a kid waiting at the principal's office.

For today, our side is doing everything they can to present the stronger, winning side. And that makes today a great day.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:47 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Ok. Now let’s go win this f***ing thing.
posted by azpenguin at 7:53 AM on August 6 [20 favorites]

I predict that Vance will be minimized by the campaign as much as possible.

I don't think that's practical. Trump is 78. He just doesn't have the energy and stamina to campaign like he used to. Vance was supposed to be the surrogate doing a lot of the actual traveling, and he might still have to do that, whether people like him or not.

(Fortunately for us, people do not like him.)

Walz and Harris I think will be everywhere. It's gonna be fun.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:54 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

The only downside is that Harris Walz sounds a little like one of those British estates that has a name instead of an address.

"Pip pip cherryo we're off to Harris Walz to meet with Bertie and see if Jeeves has any of those little sandwiches he so excels at making!"

And as far as downsides go that's a funny one that's not really a downside.
posted by sotonohito at 7:54 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

This news has made me (west coaster) *excited* that I’m going to the MM state fair at the end of the month. Now I just wish I had a Harris/Hotdish 2024 shirt to wear to it.
posted by itesser at 7:54 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

Politically, it would be suicide

Let us not forget, though, that the RNC is now chaired by a dignity wraith and a nepo baby.
posted by flabdablet at 7:55 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

also multi-time winner of the congressional hotdish competition.

OMG I had forgotten that this was the dude with the Herman the German hotdish. Let's fucking go! We'll crush the treacherous French! DO IT FOR FRANKENSTEIN!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:56 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

[After seeing Brandon's note about the deletions, I'm reassured and have asked the mods to ignore my Metatalk post.]
posted by mediareport at 7:56 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

This news has made me (west coaster) *excited* that I’m going to the MM state fair at the end of the month.

I went last year with my aunt, who goes every single year for multiple days. It is so much fun! Sweet Martha's Cookies are a must - they come by the bucket. The old mill ride is also a jam and a half. Pronto Pups are not better than corn dogs. Parking at the site is a bear - you're better off driving to one of the municipal lots where a bus will pick you up and take to you and from the fair. But wear a mask! We got COVID last time. Those buses be crowded, yo! And be sure to check out the musical acts.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:57 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

It is EXTREMELY important to correct misinformation which is why we must always remind people that any allegation that JD Vance had sex with a couch is entirely false. Since we're not sure who might be misinformed on that fact we should just mention it the first time JD Vance is named in any news article.

"JD Vance, who denies allegations he had sex with a couch, did X today."

"JD Vance, and all claims he had sex with a couch are false, did Y on Tuesday."

Etc.

It is very important that we get in front of misinformation and make sure everyone in America knows it is simply NOT TRUE that JD Vance once fucked a couch.
posted by sotonohito at 7:57 AM on August 6 [81 favorites]

itesser, keep an eye on Raygun - the best purveyor of upper-midwest-liberal-themed T-shirts - who already has a Balz to the Walz T-shirt in addition to Childless cat ladies for Kamala (and childless dog ladies, and childless cat guys, and childless dog guys, though they seem to have missed out the crucial childless guinea pig enby demographic)
posted by Jeanne at 7:58 AM on August 6 [16 favorites]

make being weird being weird again
posted by Kwine at 7:58 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

The only downside is that Harris Walz sounds a little like one of those British estates that has a name instead of an address

Nah, it sounds like the paint store down the block that your grandpa works at part time.
posted by brook horse at 7:59 AM on August 6 [20 favorites]

Swift boating is hardly something to cheer for.
posted by brambleboy at 7:59 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Walz... is a good communicator who is not afraid to be direct and speak in ordinary language and on a moral valence

He's a former teacher. Teachers often do make good politicians. Educating people to your point of view and on your vision is a big part of a politician's job, and experienced teachers are quite literally pros at that. They also know you have to vary your approach to get your message across to all different kinds of minds.

I'm surprised at how relieved I am. It's kind of like when Biden made the announcement that he was stepping down as the Democratic candidate for re-election. I had been trying to make the best of it, but no amount of determined optimism could shellac over that underlying sick dread. In this case I was afraid the VP would be Josh Shapiro. The more I learned about him the more I dreaded it would be him, and I was actually thinking things like, "Well... at least it's not Ben Shapiro."

Then last night on Twitter I saw a video clip posted by a neighbour of Tim Walz's, in which an entourage of black SUVs were shown arriving on their street. It was confirmed by a spokesperson of Walz's that the video was legit and there was indeed security at his house. I believed that clinched things, and slept very well last night.
posted by orange swan at 7:59 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

I've been reminded that this year is the year of the wood Dragon in east Asian calendars, and both candidates are 60 meaning, 1. They're Dragon-born; 2. They're full cycle Dragons (meaning it's both their animal and their element). So you can either meme the movie/game poster for Double Dragon or use the dragon emoji, which, as far as I know, is still an auspicious sign and hasn't been coopted yet. I can only relay that I'm seeing (South/East) Asian Americans are doing this now though.

(Usually though, if your animal and the year's animal is the same, it can be bad luck but that's not always the case when you hit 60)
posted by cendawanita at 8:01 AM on August 6 [42 favorites]

If I'm being honest, the reason I can really see us winning now is that the US has devolved into a primarily vibes-based political system and the election just solidified as Cool Aunt/Fun Dad vs. Combover Word Salad Ghoul/Accused Couch Fucker.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:02 AM on August 6 [93 favorites]

I'm real happy with this. He's fun! Also, it was seeming like Shapiro was the other likely pick, and I was like don't do that, the Ardent Progressives really dislike him, though I'm not totally sure why (probably Israel/Palestine) and there's nothing Shapiro brings to the table that Walz doesn't, and why needlessly piss off the Ardent Progressives?
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:02 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

He's a former teacher. Teachers often do make good politicians. Educating people to your point of view and on your vision is a big part of a politician's job, and experienced teachers are quite literally pros at that. They also know you have to vary your approach to get your message across to all different kinds of minds.

All of this, and also: Teachers are extremely used to people being disruptive or hostile, in both good and bad faith. Handling that kind of behavior while also, let's be blunt, avoiding getting fired or dealing with too much parent blowback is a core competency for any educator and it'll serve him extremely well engaging with Trumpist rhetoric.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:02 AM on August 6 [58 favorites]

Mod suggestion: Please click refresh before posting a comment, as political threads can move fast and comments may have been removed or a mod note posted that has changed the situation.

Also, please be civil with your fellow community members. We may disagree but we're here to in this place to share things, so let's be kind to each other!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:02 AM on August 6 [21 favorites]

Now I want to see Maya Rudolph do "Mother" from SNL but as Kamala Harris, with a cameo from whichever cast member will be playing Walz.
posted by needled at 8:03 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

re-reposting a Courtney Milan comment wrt people's reactions:

Yes, there are people who get parasocial about politicians, but often times I think excitement is just the damn bus route: the excitement about thinking a new bus route will go near your house is real, and the disappointment when it doesn’t is likewise.
Not every emotion you feel about a public figure is parasocial. Sometimes it’s just being normal about how an event changes how you live.
Feeing emotions about people who will make big decisions that will change how you and other people live your lives is actually fairly normal.

posted by cheshyre at 8:03 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Cool Aunt/Fun Dad vs. Combover Word Salad Ghoul & Accused Couch Fucker

brb printing t-shirts
posted by obfuscation at 8:04 AM on August 6 [30 favorites]

My favorite silly story about Walz is the following from this Washington Post story:

Kim Hermer, a longtime teacher at Mankato West, recalls that during Walz’s first autumn in town, a group of teachers decided it would be funny to pull a lighthearted prank on the newbie. They printed out a fake gift certificate for a free turkey — a supposed welcome gift from the community that could be collected at the grocery store in town.

“He went down there and left with a free turkey,” Hermer says.

How was he able to pull that off?

“I have no idea,” she says. “That’s just Tim Walz.”

posted by Kattullus at 8:06 AM on August 6 [116 favorites]

whichever cast member will be playing Walz

I've already seen Steve Martin suggested as the perfect person to play Walz and I don't disagree.
posted by orange swan at 8:06 AM on August 6 [28 favorites]

Teachers are extremely used to people being disruptive or hostile, in both good and bad faith.

People at work would warn me about some patient being "really disruptive" and I would say, "I used to teach 12 year olds with ADHD, how bad is it really?" And they'd be like, oh, no, you'll be fine, and get all relieved to have me there. Walz is going to be the "thank god someone is here to handle this" vibe, I think.
posted by brook horse at 8:06 AM on August 6 [33 favorites]

Thank you, Nancy Pelosi!
posted by overglow at 8:07 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

That Minnesota Public Radio profile ends with what feels to me like quintessential Walz:

Asked about whether the raft of Minnesota changes would make him too progressive a candidate, Walz joked that he was a “monster” for supporting efforts to fund school lunches and guarantee legal protections for those seeking abortions.

“What a monster. Kids are eating, eating and having full bellies so they can go learn and women are making their own healthcare decisions,” Walz told CNN’s State of the Union in late July. “So if that’s where they want to label me, I’m more than happy to take the label.”

I have a million things I want to say about how much I like Walz and how great he is as Harris's choice for running mate, but mostly I guess I'm just feeling this:

Walz seems to sincerely, honestly be a good-hearted guy who wants to make his community - including his global community - a better place, and is willing to step up to make that happen. That's exactly the kind of person I want in government.

Rhaomi, thank you for this great thread - you put together that terrific collection of links in record time, and I appreciate your care and thoroughness.

YAY WALZ!
posted by kristi at 8:07 AM on August 6 [85 favorites]

and make sure everyone in America knows it is simply NOT TRUE that JD Vance once fucked a couch.

Only once?
posted by briank at 8:07 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

there's nothing Shapiro brings to the table that Walz doesn't

I’m happy with this pick, but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.
posted by argybarg at 8:08 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

“What a monster. Kids are eating, eating and having full bellies so they can go learn and women are making their own healthcare decisions,” Walz told CNN’s State of the Union in late July. “So if that’s where they want to label me, I’m more than happy to take the label.”

This was the clip I shared with my coworkers that immediately got them on Team Walz.
posted by brook horse at 8:08 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

I’m happy with this pick, but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.

The news outlet live updates are moving too fast for me to find it again, but one of them stated that Harris's team's polling showed no meaningful difference among Walz, Shapiro, and Kelly in Pennsylvania as VP pick.
posted by brook horse at 8:09 AM on August 6 [34 favorites]

Peggy Flanagan is pretty badass.
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

I’m happy with this pick, but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.

Let’s try hard to win all states.
posted by Artw at 8:10 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

Swift boating is hardly something to cheer for.

Shapiro wasn't swift boated. There were many other issues with him as a VP candidate beyond the I/P stuff and even school vouchers. This video posted last Friday by Philadelphia mayor Cherelle Parker was apparently a major factor in souring his chances with Harris. He also ran for governor basically without a primary, having been just placed there by the Dem establishment. Fetterman - with whom I have a lot of issues - was correct in his assertion that Shapiro is more about Shapiro than anything else and may well have been a liability for the campaign.

As for winning PA, uh, does nobody remember that Harris was VP in 2020? And they won PA? It's not like the Republicans in PA were going to vote blue just because the VP was the former (Democratic) governor. Lots of VP candidates have lost their home state - it's almost like there is no correlation at all.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:11 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

I'm going to be extra satisfied when the Harris-Walz ticket just rinses Trump without Shapiro. You never needed him folks, the guy is trash, he sucks, he's washed! Corporate/consultant class schlock, totally unnecessary and would have polluted the ticket. PA can keep him.
posted by windbox at 8:12 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

I'm feeling pretty good about this. I had quietly resigned myself to it being Shapiro or Kelly and this is a very pleasant surprise.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:14 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, a finalist to be Vice President Kamala Harris’ running mate, hailed her ultimate decision to tap Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz on Tuesday.

“Lori and I consider Tim and Gwen to be good friends of ours and we are excited for them and for the country to get to know the great people we know them to be,” Shapiro said in a statement on X.
posted by brook horse at 8:14 AM on August 6 [57 favorites]

While I'm relieved that it's Walz, the other thing that is kind of a relief is that now that the VP pick is over, mental and media space can be cleared for actual policies. I would really like to know what this ticket is going to go for. What promises will they make? What are their positions going to be?
posted by mittens at 8:16 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

I want this ticket to win for a number of reasons.

I think the combined Harris/Walz ticket is a good, solid team.
VP Harris has a once-in-a-generation chance to upset a lot of things: if we lose a couple, the Supreme Court.
Inspiration of a new generation of potential leaders.
The sheer number of Old Republicans who will have absolute coronaries at the situation.
Yes, she had to follow policy of the state on some shitty things, but she also helped organize the first legal update to remove the gay/trans panic defense as an option from any state law
They will not do any of the things in Project 2025
Walz is a former teacher and I bet we get some good education initiatives.
Mrs. Walz has been an advocate for prison reform in Minnesota, including prisoner education
When Mr. Walz resigns to take the VP seat, we get the first Native American governor of any state in this country, ever.
Maybe we get that Democratic landslide and take back the House, preferably sending a bunch of Christian Nationalists into a deep depression for ~~the remainder of their lives~~a while.

I'm 55 and I think this is one of the first times in my entire life I have the "vote for" instead of a reluctant "vote against". Also, I loathe the Trumpy/Lumpy ticket with every little trickle of my being.
posted by mephron at 8:17 AM on August 6 [79 favorites]

Pennsylvania is important, let’s not kid ourselves about that. But if the Dems manage to hold AZ and GA - two states that were surprise pickups in 2020 - then there’s a path to winning without PA. I doubt this would happen at all but it would be freaking hilarious if the Dems took Ohio.
posted by azpenguin at 8:17 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

They're going to Walz all the way to the White House.
posted by orange swan at 8:17 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

I mean, I know it's deeper than that, but it really is Harris/Walz being kind and decent people who live their values (it appears) vs. Trump/Vance, absolute weirdos you do not want to be around.

So: hope and decency vs shitty meanies
posted by Kitteh at 8:18 AM on August 6 [43 favorites]

> ... the US has devolved into a primarily vibes-based political system...

Nmm... I don't think the US was ever not a "primarily vibes-based political system." I think what we've been seeing in real time over the last 7 years is the kind of whitewashing and normalization that happens when the capitalist predator/nativist kook faction gets control. The histories that get taught to HS kids 100 years from now (if there are any) will tell a story that would be unrecognizable to those who lived through it, I'm sure.

What's different now is that there are a lot of people who remember the relatively brief time when America really did try to have free and fair elections, and who were taught that this was normal for America, and who have been fighting for a "restoration" of that "normal" state of affairs. I am not running down these people or their efforts... I would love for it to be normal that America has free and fair elections. But it helps to not have illusions about what you're up against.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 8:18 AM on August 6 [21 favorites]

I can easily imagine one of Harris's interview questions being, "What will you do to support the ticket and the party if I don't choose you?" Having the example of someone who just stepped aside for the good of the country and the party, it seems like it would have behooved all of the potential VP picks to have thought very seriously about how they could demonstrate a similar sense of duty.
posted by kristi at 8:19 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Walz drives an Internation Harvester Scout which is one of the UR SUVs and also about as least posermobile as you can get.
posted by Mitheral at 8:19 AM on August 6 [24 favorites]

Walz definitely seems like a truly decent person. Harris is not. Decent people don't become career prosecutors. Please don't act like these people are your friends, or even have your best interests at heart. They're still fully in the bag for capital.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:19 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

All I know about this guy is what I've read today, as he wasn't really on my radar - I thought Kelly would be the pick. But he seems great, he'll appeal to the White Boomer Guy demograph who don't like or trust Vance, and he has a solid record of Doing Good Things. Oh, and he has a rescue cat.
posted by essexjan at 8:19 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

For those that are interested, here’s a good article on Walz’s faith background.

(TL;DR: He’s a Lutheran, in a congregation that is in the mainstream, on the more liberal side, and has advocated for American Muslims.)
posted by darkstar at 8:20 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

Peak dad joke: "[Hope] I'm vegetarian. [Gov Walz] Turkey, then."

"Turkey's meat." "Not in Minnesota, turkey's special."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:21 AM on August 6 [16 favorites]

For anyone interested who hasn't listened to his Ezra Klein interview this past week, here it is. The actual interview starts at exactly 5 minutes in if you want to skip all the intro/set-up. I found it very helpful to really ground in who Tim Walz is beyond the amazing vibes.
posted by meinvt at 8:22 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

OK, I like Walz. This is good.

...

As a self-described weird person I'm not sure what to think of this "weird" attack on Trump. I mean, obviously TFG is weird as hell, but his weird is not my weird.

But I'm going to be sad/angry if I have to take the "stay weird" bumper sticker off my car because the word becomes permanently associated with the festering orange slimeball.

And what about Austin and Portland?
posted by Foosnark at 8:23 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

I would think that the Midwestern angle might give the campaign a leg-up in not just Minnesota, but maybe Wisconsin, and Michigan? Could that be more valuable than Pennsylvania alone? (I admittedly know little about Midwestern politics, I'm just very excited and happy about the new Dem vibe and trying to find more things to be happy about)
posted by danapiper at 8:25 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I think I saw it on Blue Sky but basically, people who are cool weird do not get upset when you call them weird, but people who are shitty and awful get REAL upset when you call them weird though.

Like, I'm weird. But I know my weird isn't the slew of horrible stuff Trump supporters believe so it's all good.
posted by Kitteh at 8:26 AM on August 6 [80 favorites]

Tim Walz: "America's Fun Dad"

J.D. Vance: "No, there's no need for you to hide your couch when he visits your house! That was just a stupid tweet that went viral!"
posted by orange swan at 8:27 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Decent people don't become career prosecutors.

If you believe in the rule of law, as opposed to the divine right of kings, then you're going to need prosecutors.
posted by Crane Shot at 8:27 AM on August 6 [107 favorites]

Maybe we could borrow some adjectives from Lovecraft. Trump is bachtrachian, cacodaemoniacal, eldritch, foetid, non-Euclidean...

(I'm not too serious about the weird thing, I get it. :))
posted by Foosnark at 8:27 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

If you like being called weird you are probably a good sort of weird.
If you hate being called weird you are probably a bad sort of weird.
I'm weird.
You're weird.
They .. are quite weird too.

All weird - not at all the same.

(Feels like a Shel Silverstein poem.)

I think most people get it.
posted by meinvt at 8:27 AM on August 6 [52 favorites]

Yes, I realize that the musical, Merrily We Roll Along does proceed to disillusionment, but when I heard Sondheim's gorgeous "Our Time" song on the radio this morning, I imagined Harris and Walz singing it.

Something is stirring, shifting ground
It's just begun
Edges are blurring, all around
And yesterday is done
Feel the flow, hear what's happening
We're what's happening
Don't you know, we're the movers and we're the shapers
We're the names in tomorrow's papers
Up to us man, to show 'em.

It's our time
Breathe it in
Worlds to change, and worlds to win
Our turn, coming through
Me and you man, me and you.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:28 AM on August 6 [17 favorites]

I’m happy with this pick, but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.

Shapiro has his upsides, certainly. I'm a Pennsylvanian and I like him. The rebuilding of I-95 in two weeks after it blew up bought him a lot of goodwill, and he's on the proper side of many issues.

The question there is whether Shapiro would deliver the right kind of Pennsylvanian voters for this election, i.e. those who weren't already going to fill in the Democratic circle no matter what. Some love to portray Pennsylvania politics as Philadelphia elites vs. the rest of the state, and Walz is precisely the kind of guy whom Rust Belt voters will be warmer to. Walz won't have a very-pro-Israel chill effect on progressives the way that Shapiro would.

There are plenty of Pennsylvanians who are ultra MAGA chuds. But a lot more are looking for reasons NOT to vote for Trump, and I feel like Walz balances the ticket in ways that will please them.
posted by delfin at 8:28 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Things are good, which I almost forgot could happen.
Let's never go back
posted by mumimor at 8:29 AM on August 6 [37 favorites]

They're still fully in the bag for capital.

This isn't a good enough critique. Yes, of course, every candidate for President is in the bag for Capital. No candidate, even of some very small third party, is laying out a coherent plan for how to dismantle capitalism, because no such plan exists.

We must be allowed to ask whether one thing is better than another thing under capital. We must be allowed to say that is a relevant question. And we must be allowed to own our emotional reaction to the way that question is answered.

In other words, the existence of systemic problems like capitalism must not be allowed to drown out happiness and hope. Otherwise there is no point to discussion whatsoever.
posted by mittens at 8:29 AM on August 6 [152 favorites]

I am so freaking excited and everywhere I look I see joy and happiness with this pick. LFG!!

Also, some people in the last thread were getting amped up to have a cooking show or programming with Walz and Kamala and I’m sorry but Metafilter if we can get them elected we need to make this happen.
posted by cashman at 8:29 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Am in Wisconsin, I do think with enough campaigning Walz could absolutely give WI and MI boosts. WI's governor is also a former school teacher who campaigned on public school improvements, so definitely an angle to lean on.
posted by brook horse at 8:30 AM on August 6 [29 favorites]

As a self-described weird person I'm not sure what to think of this "weird" attack on Trump. I mean, obviously TFG is weird as hell, but his weird is not my weird.

In one of the threads, there was a good discussion about good weird vs bad weird. Consensus was that, like Kitteh just said, we can identify as weird and still be proud of being "good weird", but clearly that is not the type of weird Trump is. He is bad weird and it is used negatively towards him.

I believe there were even a couple of links to stories that also made this distinction.

Keep on being proud in being the good weird.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:30 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

There's a big difference between being a cool weirdo and a creepy weirdo.
posted by orange swan at 8:31 AM on August 6 [17 favorites]

This is a simply perfect choice. Walz is so to his core a mid-western American - genuine, funny, personable and above all he has been an incredibly progressive governor of Minnesota. I am super super happy!
posted by bluesky43 at 8:32 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Weird is a subjective placement outside norms. If the American concept of normal consciously shifts to exclude bullies and fascists, I say that's a good thing.
posted by droomoord at 8:32 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

The thing with “weird” is that it’s not a focus-grouped strategy but an organic crystallization of what everyone has felt.
posted by argybarg at 8:34 AM on August 6 [56 favorites]

I think Walz could be really strong - a hunter, an educator, a guy with a military background, a guy who got both his degrees from state schools - with moderate rust belt voters. Especially against a guy from suburban Ohio who claims to speak for Appalachia, a guy who went to Yale and has been bankrolled by venture capital weirdo [derogatory] Peter Thiel. I think that'll help not just in Wisconsin/Minnesota, but in Pennsylvania as well.

When I heard it was going to be Walz I thought, "Oh, Iowa's in play now," and that's probably wrong - even if it's right, it's 6 electoral votes, so pretty inconsequential - but you never know.
posted by Jeanne at 8:35 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Seth Abramson on Twitter: I feel like if you looked at all the photos on J.D. Vance’s computer you’d feel compelled to contact the FBI and if you looked at Tim Walz’s it would just be 2,500 adorable photos of his dog.
posted by orange swan at 8:36 AM on August 6 [95 favorites]

I think we need like a graphic way of understanding the distinction between different kinds of weird. Like something with two axes, one going from WEIRD to NORMIE and one going from COOL to CREEPY. Oh, and we should have an area in the middle too, let's call it NEUTRAL.

So we've got a three by three grid with COOL WEIRD in the upper left and CREEPY NORMIE in the lower right and... wait, this reminds me of something...
posted by overglow at 8:37 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

I am so freaking excited and everywhere I look I see joy and happiness with this pick. LFG!!

If there isn't already a T shirt with "HARRIS WALZ LFG" on the front and "TFG" behind a slashed red circle on the back, there needs to be.
posted by flabdablet at 8:37 AM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Broadly speaking, it seems like the left is about finding ways to cooperate or at least respect each other even when we are different, while the right is about domination, us vs. them. So on the left, being "weird" or "different" is a good thing, whereas on the right, being "weird" is the worst - it means you are in danger of being on the wrong side of the domination, of being crushed by the in group. That's why it's kind of a magical label to apply - we're all weird, and you either accept and embrace it (which would tend to promote lefty values) or you run with fear from it - in which case you embrace righty values.

Although there's also just an expression of visceral disgust with Trump and Vance as people, and that's just bad weird, which I can also get behind as a label.
posted by nightcoast at 8:37 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Reading the NYT explainer about Walz on the issues makes it clear that Kamala Harris doubled down on the light of the Democratic party in the same way that trump doubled down on the darkest dark of the GOP. Walz is just superb on making real what the Democratic party can do.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:39 AM on August 6 [21 favorites]

Walz 5 years ago on Minnesota PBS 10 Serious & Not-So-Serious Questions for Gov. Tim Walz. Absolutely charming in a really down to earth way.
posted by kaymac at 8:39 AM on August 6 [20 favorites]

I’m happy with this pick, but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state.

The only Democratic presidential candidate to lose Pennsylvania in the last 35+ years was Clinton in 2016.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:40 AM on August 6 [28 favorites]

If you believe in the rule of law, as opposed to the divine right of kings, then you're going to need prosecutors.

Yeah, like... do people know her record beyond media soundbytes? Because prosecuting child sexual abuse, creating a unit focusing on hate crimes towards LGBTQ+ individuals, supporting SF as a sanctuary city for immigrants, obtaining a 1.2 billion judgement against a for-profit college defrauding students, filing a brief to overturn California's ban on affirmative action, mandating corporations prominently display what data they are gathering and who they share it with, refusing to defend Prop 8, and banning the gay and trans panic defense, are all actions of someone who is trying to do the right, decent thing. You may think that they have chosen an incorrect or ineffective way to go about it, but that doesn't mean "career prosecutor = bad person." People love to take the ACAB political framework and apply it to the entire criminal justice system but that's an incredibly lazy way to engage with the politics behind said framework.
posted by brook horse at 8:41 AM on August 6 [178 favorites]

that is not the type of weird Trump is
People who identify as conservative tend to identify as normal and to recoil like one of their guns at the idea that they might be weird (strange, outlandish, grotesque).

Walz seems weirdly normal.
posted by pracowity at 8:41 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

There's a big difference between being a cool weirdo and a creepy weirdo.

I like to see it as the difference between "Nic Cage in Raising Arizona weird" and "Nic Cage in Longlegs weird."
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:42 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

That's the oldest 60 year old I've ever seen.
posted by alex_skazat at 8:42 AM on August 6

I have already donated multiple times to the Harris campaign, but I hereby promise to donate again every single time Walz manages to use the word "couch" in the VP debate.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:43 AM on August 6 [28 favorites]

Like, someone did need to prosecute Trump for fraud, y'all.
posted by brook horse at 8:43 AM on August 6 [61 favorites]

Pretty happy with this pick. Walz wasn't my top choice, but there was so much baggage with Shapiro that I was genuinely worried Harris would make her real first misstep and pick him. The sexual harassment allegations REALLY worried me.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 8:43 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

> Broadly speaking, it seems like the left is about finding ways to cooperate or at least respect each other even when we are different, while the right is about domination, us vs. them.

team voice vs team loyalty (and team exit)
posted by kliuless at 8:44 AM on August 6

From Old Man Shadow in the comments at Wonkette:

In a better world, this would put an end to the whole "Republicans are the party of 'real' America" bullshit.

You've got a former Manhattan real estate developer and a tech bro libertarian muppet.

We've got a daughter of immigrants who lived the American Dream and built an amazing career in politics in the most populous state in America and a guy who was born in a small town, taught in our schools, coached football to a state championship, and served in the military as an NCO.

This is, I think, a very, very compelling point. Harris/Walz is a "this is the best of quintessential America" ticket. I'm betting all of us know at least one person who fits the same general profile as one of them do, and they're the kind of people who make you feel actually good about America and being American. Trump/Vance? Not so much.
posted by yasaman at 8:46 AM on August 6 [117 favorites]

If you believe in the rule of law, as opposed to the divine right of kings, then you're going to need prosecutors.

That isn't actually true, and it certainly isn't true insofar as the way the job "prosecutor" is constructed in the US. Prosecutors in the US aren't actually interested in the rule of law, they're interested in getting re-elected (and most of them are also interested in torturing poor people).
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:46 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

At least right now, I'm feeling not only hopeful about the election, but BEYOND the election
posted by pt68 at 8:46 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

All my Kentucky friends and family are stoked Harris didn't pick Beshear... because they love him and they want to keep him. Even with his Dem Lt. Gov. in line to replace him, they feared a power shift back to the GOP if he left his post.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:46 AM on August 6 [24 favorites]

It feels rather odd to be the exact same age as the Democratic Presidential ticket.
posted by JanetLand at 8:46 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

He looks ... 60. He's still a sharper debater than Vance.
posted by credulous at 8:47 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

There's a difference between small town history teacher "looks 60" and career politician who stays camera ready "looks 60." Walz doesn't look old, he just tilts the former way.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:49 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

I called my Mom because she literally lives in the woods without internet and I like to ensure she doesn't get left out of big things. I told her it was Walz and she said "Who?" Got to do a little bit of educating. She's in a non-swing state and would be voting for Harris anyway, but there's definitely going to need to be some educating going on out there.
posted by Captaintripps at 8:49 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

It feels rather odd to be the exact same age as the Democratic Presidential ticket.

Indeed! It was odd when Obama was elected because he and I were in high school at the same time. I was in the same grade as Harris and Walz.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:49 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

You may think that they have chosen an incorrect or ineffective way to go about it, but that doesn't mean "career prosecutor = bad person."

Prosecutorial culture is fundamentally broken. Because advancement is built on winning cases, this pushes prosecutors to press the cases they know they can win (i.e. cases against poor defendants), while avoiding hard cases against well heeled defendants. There's also how the profession exploits tragedy to pull power from other parts of the legal system, as well as their unwillingness to treat prosecutorial misconduct as the grave breach of trust that it is. And because many prosecutors view the bench as their retirement plan, they carry on those attitudes when they become judges.

No, being a prosecutor doesn't make someone a bad person, but it does show them being complicit in a corrupt system, and that's what bothers people.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:53 AM on August 6 [24 favorites]

As for the age, the Biden story should not tell us “older is worse.” Biden just crossed a threshold where he reminded many people of loved ones they had lost to dementia or Alzheimer’s. That’s not an issue here.
posted by argybarg at 8:53 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Decent people don't become career prosecutors.

The judicial system is imperfect and often frustrating and it's filled with flawed actors but to say no decent person can become a career prosecutor is bullshit.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:53 AM on August 6 [85 favorites]

Harris Walz combined age: 119 years
Trump Vance combined age: 118 years

Harris Walz age difference: <1 year
Trump Vance age difference: 38 years
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:55 AM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Decent people don’t participate in this broken world of human frailty and misguided systems. Apparently.
posted by argybarg at 8:57 AM on August 6 [54 favorites]

I am ecstatic at how this is turning into a perfect storm of karma (Karmala?) for Trump and his cult of supporters.

First, they went all in on messaging on Sleepy Joe, too old, mangles his words, low energy Biden.

Then Trump picked as VP a venture capitalist backed, faux hillbilly, creepy, childless cat lady hating, suburban Midwestern guy to serve as a foil to their notion of a crazy Black West Coast woman.

Then Joe dropped out, making Trump the candidate who mangles his words, who has low energy, who is too old. And now, racist, rapist, con-man felon Trump (who appointed Roe-killing SCOTUS Justices) is running directly against a pro-choice Black woman who is a former prosecutor.

And then Kamala picks Tim Walz as VP, who is infinitely more authentically Midwestern, a happy warrior, dog-and-cat lover, with a more impressive record of public service, including governance, military service and teaching/coaching. (I mean, Vance really isn’t even in this guy ‘s league for experience, and their personalities are like day and night.)

The Republican Party has gone all-in on Trump, from party platform to RNC leadership to diaper-wearing cultists — and the past three weeks have just completely obsoleted 95% of Trump’s campaign. All while Harris has raked in a third of a billion in donations and the Democrats are more energized than they’ve been in at least a decade.

There’s no doubt that most folks would rather have a beer with Cool Aunt / Fun Dad than those other weirdos.
posted by darkstar at 8:57 AM on August 6 [33 favorites]

No, being a prosecutor doesn't make someone a bad person, but it does show them being complicit in a corrupt system, and that's what bothers people.

That would make public defenders complicit too so let's just avoid these simplifications and look at someone's record. Harris has great things in her past and her future.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:58 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

I'm excited to vote for these two. I think couching things in terms of them being among the best of America and moving the country forwards is going to appeal to voters tired of the murderous cruelty, sexual assault, treason, and ugly race baiting of the weirdo GOP alternative.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:58 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

Decent people don’t participate in this broken world of human frailty and misguided systems. Apparently.

Decent people, at the very least, don't choose jobs where they spend all their time putting people in cages. *shrug* I mean, i know y'all hate me and hate leftism in general, but like, that's a hill i'm willing to die on.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:59 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Kamala Harris pushed out a very conservative Republican, Dick Cooley, in a contest for California Attorney General. Cooley had plans to repeal a lot of gun control laws in California and was coasting on big NRA money and disaffected CA Republicans.

Kamala led a lot of very pointed hearing queries, like those of Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh to get them to admit their Republican mandate, which both of them weaseled out of their true intentions.

Kamala is now taking up the Democratic campaign mantle to stop the second Trump term that is openiy promising a sort of oligarchy. She is starting off really strong talking about Human Rights, Medical Rights, Supreme Court Reform and Gun Control in a very hostile, dangerous environment.

It takes a lot of courage to do that. In my book, she is a hero, a woman warrior. I wish her a lot of success in the next eight years. She's not just some faceless state cop.
posted by effluvia at 9:01 AM on August 6 [75 favorites]

Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.

lmao no. Its hilarious to me how people have been talking about PA for the past few days as though it is some hard-to-get electoral votes edge case. Pennsylvania is a blue state, full stop. There's a reason that TFG was campaigning in Butler County and not 45 minutes down the road in Pittsburgh, and its that the steady blue union and urban vote in PA greatly outweighs the rural maga vote. As noted above, PA votes blue in presidential elections -- its just what they do.

Instead of being focused on PA, let's flip Texas. Let's bring Ohio back into the fold. Let's focus on Kentucky and Kansas, both of whom have Dem governors in formerly blood red states. Let's keep Michigan and maybe try and see what we can do in Iowa. Let's get Georgia and North Carolina. Hell, let's get Florida.

Walz (and Harris) can speak to people in all those places and many more. Gotta sweep the board to the best of our ability.
posted by anastasiav at 9:01 AM on August 6 [54 favorites]

I just heard today the "weird" anecdote where it first dropped on MSNBC.

"We do not like what has happened, where we can't even go to thanksgiving dinner with our uncle because you end up in some weird fight that is unnecessary ... [laughter] ... well it's true, these guys are just weird! They are running for He-Man Women Haters' Club or something."

It sounds like an off-the-cuff remark even if it wasn't, but regardless Walz simply nails the tone. I hear his frustration and anger from listening to the stupidity, the tiresome rebuttals to the outlandish lies and hatred. I've been waiting for a "have you no decency sir" moment and this is it. "Weird" works because people are tired of it. It's unncessary, they're not serious, they're just weird.
posted by cotterpin at 9:02 AM on August 6 [72 favorites]

I mean, what kind of weirdos want everyone to go back to the dark years of the Trump era, when we have a legitimately appealing alternative? I think offering a better future will resonate with more Americans, especially in swing states where that will matter.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:03 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Prosecutors in the US aren't actually interested in the rule of law, they're interested in getting re-elected

Almost all prosecutors aren't elected positions all all though? Just the top ones. Which, sure, matters a lot, but I am not sure removing the only fig leaf of democratic accountability from prosecutors is really the direction we want to go.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:03 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

When Mr. Walz resigns to take the VP seat, we get the first Native American governor of any state in this country, ever.

Flanagan would be the first Native American woman to govern a state, and second or third Native American governor overall. The first two were Johnston Murray* and Kevin Stitt, both of Oklahoma.

*Murray had Chickasaw ancestry and his parents were members of the Chickasaw nation, but he was not an enrolled citizen himself.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:03 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

Wow. That's amazing! I had no idea this was Minnesota!
posted by bluesky43 at 9:05 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Yes, cotterpin, I love that moment! Honestly, I think "running for He-Man Women Haters' Club" is even better than weird because it renders Trump-Vance as obnoxious little boys. And because it's funny too.
posted by overglow at 9:07 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

I mean, i know y'all hate me and hate leftism in general

This is a very clever conflation you’re performing. There are whole versions of leftism that have nothing to do with you or your approach to politics.

I don’t know you or “hate” you, but I strongly dislike the rhetorical manipulation you’re playing here.
posted by argybarg at 9:08 AM on August 6 [173 favorites]

Duck Duck Grey Duck!
posted by misterpatrick at 9:08 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

i know y'all hate me and hate leftism in general

I doubt anyone hates you, you're just tedious.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:10 AM on August 6 [129 favorites]

Tim Walz: "America's Fun Dad"

long ago and far away (whenever it was that Old Joe announced he was stepping down and young enough Kamala quickly became the nominee apparent), a friend opined over a few drinks. "I put all my money on her VP pick being basically an unflashy average sort of middle age white guy supportive husband type who isn't gay, doesn't have a last name that sounds immediately NOT Amurrican, does come from somewhere not believed to be the breeding ground of the so-called coastal elites."

That we got an actually pretty darned good and competent and progressive even politician on the deal feels pretty good.
posted by philip-random at 9:11 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

Almost all prosecutors aren't elected positions all all though? Just the top ones.

Being a prosecutor is considered an entry point for the American cursus honorum, though. Which is yet another way the profession is broken.

That would make public defenders complicit too

No, it wouldn't, because the problem is specifically with prosecutors, not the legal system as a whole.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:11 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

I've been beating the "all else aside, Trump and his cronies are just fucking weird" drum for a decade so it is both weird and gratifying to see it coming from top Democrats.

In the abstract, weird is fine and good. But his supporters insisting that Trump is the paragon of White American Normality has always made absolutely no sense. This is a guy who speaks weirdly, stands weirdly, drinks water weirdly, has weird hair, has weird suits, has weird lawyers, and so on. He's just genuinely an unusual person. And it's hilarious that pointing out this obvious truth makes them melt down.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:12 AM on August 6 [25 favorites]

I mean, Walz also signed into legislation protecting trans kids from AG overreach, has said that trans kids should be able to live happy healthy lives and have access to gender-affirming treatment. That's bad-ass!

Listen, is the world still a garbage fire on the whole? Yes, but I would rather find reasons to be hopeful than continually choosing to find reasons to be unhappy. Speaking for myself, and only for myself, I am glad to be hopeful for this Dem ticket. Does it right all the wrongs? No, but at least now I feel like the Dems are starting to come out swinging.
posted by Kitteh at 9:12 AM on August 6 [69 favorites]

Almost all prosecutors aren't elected positions all all though?

That's the opposite of true. From UNC School of Law's national study of prosecutor elections in Feb 2020 [pdf]:

Forty-five states elect prosecutors on the local level. These local elections provide a powerful check on the power that prosecutors wield—at least in theory. But how does that check operate in practice? Put differently, how much of a choice do voters have about who will make important criminal justice decisions in their communities?

The chart on page 6 makes clear that the vast majority of prosecutor elections in areas with less than a million in population are uncontested. But a huge percentage of prosecutors across the U.S. are elected, not appointed.

And from a 1998 Dept. of Justice study [pdf]: Over 95% of chief prosecutors are elected locally.
posted by mediareport at 9:12 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

He looks 60 to me., He's not wearing makeup to color his skin. He's not dying his hair. He's not wearing a hairpiece or has gotten hair plugs to hide being balding.

You may not like it, but this is what peak 60 looks like---without a whole lot of professional help, nips and tucks for many people.
posted by bonehead at 9:14 AM on August 6 [45 favorites]

And I want them to hammer Trump/Vance on the economy.

Pandemic aside, a few big reasons for inflation/tough times:
-the trade war that Trump started with China,
-the trillion dollar tax cut, which ran out for regular people but stayed in place for the rich,
-corporate greed

That's all on Trump/Vance. The frickin dum dums.
posted by ishmael at 9:14 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

but it does show them being complicit in a corrupt system,

This (and in one way or another most of what you described as the problems of prosecution as a field) is also true of healthcare and MDs.

So unless we're going to say, decent people don't choose jobs where they deny people life-saving medical care and make a profit of of human suffering, then saying it about prosecutors is either a vibes-based reaction or "I know my own system too well and am oblivious to the many other corrupt systems people work in" sort of deal, and not actually a "anyone who participates in a corrupt system is not a good person" political stance.
posted by brook horse at 9:14 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

"I put all my money on her VP pick being basically an unflashy average sort of middle age white guy supportive husband type who isn't gay, doesn't have a last name that sounds immediately NOT Amurrican, does come from somewhere not believed to be the breeding ground of the so-called coastal elites."

That we got an actually pretty darned good and competent and progressive even politician on the deal feels pretty good.

Diversity hiring doesn't mean compromising on quality!
posted by trig at 9:15 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

Then last night on Twitter I saw a video clip posted by a neighbour of Tim Walz's, in which an entourage of black SUVs were shown arriving on their street.

Looking forward to someone in power in DC finally saying that, with the world on fire, the phalanx of giant black SUVs is a terrible look, however.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:17 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Welp, the first major decision for Harris is a gooder. Bodes well.
posted by mazola at 9:18 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

The man is just so wholesome. It's refreshing and pure as a cold mountain stream.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:18 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

I’m perfectly happy with her choice (although any of the leading contenders would have been fine with me), but somewhat disappointed in the dearth of Walz/Waltz puns out there. “Harris Brings Walz to Dance” would make a great headline!

I heard some people say something along the lines of "I want either Walz or Beshear," which obviously just made me think of Waltz with Bashir (ואלס עם באשיר), a very gritty Israeli animated docudrama film from 2008.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:21 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

I really do wish this all prosecutors are straight up evil would go away... it's not helping and is kinda dumb... but I'd also love to point out that as a Canadian I am endlessly amazed that the US votes for these positions and for sheriffs and even some friggin judges.

You have got to understand how Weird that is to the rest of the world... like the really really not good Weird too.
posted by cirhosis at 9:21 AM on August 6 [21 favorites]

As a friend of mine said, "Seeing unvarnished praise from Pelosi, AOC, and Manchin is some weird shit."
posted by Navelgazer at 9:22 AM on August 6 [51 favorites]

Weird is inspired verbal judo, in my opinion.

Weird has morphed in meaning, or at least acquired meaning in recent decades that many over-50s don't get. I contend that were whole generations of kids, roughly starting with the Millennials who were told weird is the word for creepy guys. The weird dude you didn't want to have to sit near on the bus. The table of weird old guys whose eyes would follow you round the restaurant, whom you would get other servers to bring the check to if you could. The weird uncle you mostly tried to ignore at family gatherings.

Trump and his ilk don't get that as viscerally though. Weird isn't great for them either, but it mostly means being strange, which means you aren't popular. That's what Trump thinks he's responding to when he complains about it. He doesn't get the creeper/stranger-danger reading though. People who fornicate couches don't think that's weird, I guess.

I don't know that Walz really understood that when he said it. I kind of think it was a bit of chance. But I'm glad someone found a way to flip the script and use (accidentally) coded language on the right-wing populists. This has legs well beyond just Trump.
posted by bonehead at 9:23 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Governor Walz spoke at the ESRI ArcGIS user conference a couple weeks ago, and his keynote is absolutely fucking fantastic (geography nerds in positions of power? Yes, please!). One of my government IT colleagues came back to Minnesota gushing about his speech and made me promise to watch it.

The most moving part of his speech, in my opinion, is about how his high school students used GIS to study genocide (it starts around minute 6). This related NY Times article from 2008 has stuck with me ever since I first read it (sorry, I don’t have a gift link).

I am delighted, both as a Minnesotan and a liberal.
posted by Maarika at 9:23 AM on August 6 [75 favorites]

One of the few things public oppo research has found on Walz - other than just looking at his positions and calling them bad - is that in 1995, he got a DUI. What's often left out - and I think is highly relevant - is that he's been a teetotaler ever since.

This is part of a (to me, at least) fascinating pattern of candidates still being describe with regards to "would you have a beer with them" while, well, not drinking beer. Presidents (and candidates) who entirely refrained from alcohol include:

Donald Trump
Joe Biden
Mitt Romney
George W Bush
Jimmy Carter

Their reasons range from personal experiences (Bush) to family history of alcoholism (Biden, Trump) to religion (Carter). Total abstention is extremely normal among those who seek the highest offices, among both parties.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:25 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

but Pennsylvania has a good chance of being the deciding state. Let’s not fool ourselves — there is some risk involved in not choosing Shapiro.

Vox.com Explainer that the evidence that VP picks gain you a home state advantage is pretty darn thin.

Also, given that we know there's some legal/legislative fuckery coming down the pike, PA currently has a split legislature, and I think it would be a good idea to have an actual Democratic lawyer as governor in Pennsylvania.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:26 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

I like the discussion of the prosecutorial system, but discussing separately from specific aspects of Kamala's tenure seems to be a bit of a derail. Maybe someone can make a post with intelligent analyses on the subject.

Seconding this. Someone could even make a whole FPP trashing Kamala Harris' record as a prosecutor, if that's the conversation some folks want to be having. There's plenty to talk about there.
posted by kensington314 at 9:26 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

I mean, I think “the judicial, financial and political systems are so inherently corrupt that anyone who participates in any of them is corrupt by definition” is a coherent and defensible stance. But what doesn’t make sense, in that case, is participating in discussions about U.S. politics. If you’re opting out, opt out — otherwise, you’re just grandstanding.
posted by argybarg at 9:26 AM on August 6 [38 favorites]

By the way, as far as leftists being happy or unhappy, other than the usual objections (the entire capitalist system needs to be replaced, and we don't want Presidents anymore), the leftists I've seen are mostly onboard with Walz. You can't make everyone happy, but leftists who could have voted for anyone on a Dem ticket are at least accepting of Harris/Walz. YMMV of course, but not all leftists unhappy with this turn of event.

And as a reminder, the left faction of elected Democrats like Sanders, AOC, Omar, Tlaib, etc. all threw their weight behind Harris immediately. Sure, these people are more social democrats than anarchists or communists, but the idea that the anti-capitalist left are the squeaky wheel is just not accurate this year.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:27 AM on August 6 [53 favorites]

Sweet Martha's Cookies are a must!

100% What you want to do is visit the main location next to the grandstand and get your cookies, then walk straight down the street leading directly away from the grandstand. At the end of the block you'll find the all-you-can-drink milk stand where, for something like $1.50 you can have all the milk you could want with your cookies. There's a nice greenspace nearby where you can eat your milk and cookies and then across the street from the milk stand you'll find the Miracle of Life birthing center with all the baby animals.

Should be a bunch of other great food stands on or near that intersection too.

We'll need a Great Minnesota Get Together thread in a week or two and I'm going to cut myself off here 'cause I have tons of advice about The Fair I'm happy to share and it'll be a massive derail.

GO WALZ!
posted by VTX at 9:28 AM on August 6 [21 favorites]

I've been over on the Crooked Media Discord all morning. Paraphrasing one exchange:

"The right is already trying to paint him as a wannabe west coast liberal."

" I don't think I've ever met or seen or heard a single person that wanted to be west-coast less than Tim Walz. He CARVED A BUS OUT OF BUTTER FOR CRISSAKES. The man campaigns in Carhart and flannel."
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:28 AM on August 6 [46 favorites]

Tim Walz's usual quip when people comment about his aged appearance is "I supervised a high school lunchroom for 20 years. You do not leave that job with a full head of hair."

Lifelong MN resident, huge Walz fan, I'm happy the rest of the country gets to meet him but I'm sad our state will lose him as governor (but Peggy is pretty rad too). My friends and I refer to him as "Governor Dad" because he's the kind of guy who will check the air in your tires when you visit home for winter break and makes sure you take back a few loaves of your mom's banana bread to share with your friends, otherwise he'll just eat it all if it stays on the counter.
posted by castlebravo at 9:28 AM on August 6 [58 favorites]

Johnathan Chait is unhappy, that makes me happy.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on August 6 [38 favorites]

I really do wish this all prosecutors are straight up evil would go away... it's not helping and is kinda dumb

It's also just a super lazy argument. Say I agree with you that all prosecutors are evil (and let's set aside the complication of the agreeing on what even "evil" means and assume we agree on that). OK, then what? Even if I agree with you, what, exactly, is your argument?

Are you saying that we should get rid of prosecutors? OK, say we do - then what? Get rid of the entire concept of laws and crime? If not prosecutors, what should we have instead? These are hard questions to answer and of course nobody does. Make the argument, don't be lazy.

Or maybe you're saying that everyone who's ever been a prosecutor is tainted and we shouldn't vote for them for other offices. OK then, who, exactly, would you like me to vote for instead of Harris? Why? What would that vote accomplish? But nobody goes that far, that's a hard argument. Make the argument, don't be lazy.

Or maybe you just want to feel smugly superior about your own moral choices, because YOU would NEVER do ANYTHING that reinforces the carceral state. OK cool, that's good for you. What choices have you made in life to avoid being tainted? How have you made those choices? Are they reasonable choices for other people? Make the argument, don't be lazy.

I'd have a lot more respect for people making statements like "prosecutors are evil" or "every candidate is tainted by capitalism" if they'd go three of four steps further and really develop the argument, say what they mean, instead of just being lazy.

Meanwhile, Tim Walz fucking rocks and I couldn't be more excited.
posted by dorothy hawk at 9:29 AM on August 6 [92 favorites]

Walz speaks Chinese which is cool because Trump barely speaks English.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:31 AM on August 6 [38 favorites]

Walz speaks Chinese

Stop! Stop! He's getting too cool. Next you'll tell me he plays bass in a Sisters of Mercy cover band or something.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:32 AM on August 6 [61 favorites]

Every three hours some new charming thing about Walz comes out. High School GSA advisor! Hotdish! GIS! Drives a fucking sick 1970s SUV! His dog ate his glasses! Shops at Menards! Speaks Chinese! By the end of this campaign we're going to learn he has an extensive pog collection, hosted his own mukbang channel, featured in an old Milwaukee power tools ad, roadied for the Violent Femmes . . . he's probably the uncle of the I Like Turtles kid.

(Literally had to hit the edit button to add the "speaks Chinese" bit after seeing it pop up, that's how real this dude is.)
posted by kensington314 at 9:34 AM on August 6 [41 favorites]

One thing I've noticed is how strong the Democratic back bench is going into the next few cycles.

Also that Democrats and liberals in general have finally decided to stop playing Margret Dumont to a Republican Groucho.

It gives me hope for the future.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:34 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Is there any historical data on how having actual human people on your ticket impacts electability?
posted by snofoam at 9:35 AM on August 6 [29 favorites]

Choosing Shapiro would have shown she's deaf and blind on Gaza. Was so worried she was going to choose him but also completely expected her to.

I would have preferred Pete, but anyone but Shapiro is fine with me.
posted by dobbs at 9:35 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

If you’re opting out, opt out — otherwise, you’re just grandstanding.

1. There is no opting out. The entireyu of the Global North is built on the suffering and death of others, and it's inescapable.
2. Okay!
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:37 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

I mean, I think “the judicial, financial and political systems are so inherently corrupt that anyone who participates in any of them is corrupt by definition” is a coherent and defensible stance

It really isn't coherent at all. I work in criminal appeals. Unless you think we should just let prosecutors get away with illegal shit, or that people dont deserve appeals (they do), criminal appeal work is crucial. Which is why I called for specifics instead of generalizations. Generalizing entire systems are awful and filled with awful people is a strange way to argue and we don't need any of that here.

Excited about FEWER divisive stuff with Kamala and Walz in charge. We need NUANCE.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:37 AM on August 6 [17 favorites]

VP Pick Tim Walz can't stop name-dropping Midwestern food (Eater Twin Cities)
posted by box at 9:37 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

Walz speaks Chinese

I was going to ask--does anyone have the full interview for which there's a clip going around of him talking about not having an adversarial relationship with China? Everyone seems to have the clip but I've yet to find out what it's from.
posted by mittens at 9:37 AM on August 6

Done with my mod shift and am scrolling through TikTok and there are some choice quotes

"Tim Walz represents the father we we lost to Fox News"

Jamelle Bouie quotes:
"This ticket is the ultimate success of resistance libs" (in a good way)
"...Kamala Harris, who is in lot of ways, America's most prominent wine mom..."
"we are normal people who want to do good things for this country our opponents want...to ban books and sniff your underwear"

Walz absolutely nailing it on small town America while on CNN.

Kamala also nailing it!

Yeah, I'm giddy!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:38 AM on August 6 [63 favorites]

As a high school teacher myself, I can attest that you grind and grind to do good work within a dispiriting, often-broken system. The idea of a VP who had to sit through 20 years’ worth of staff meetings about bell schedules, through 20 years of arguments about bathroom policies, who had to attend pep rallies and confirm when final semester grades were due, is profoundly strange and exciting to me.

I see Walz as a man who might know how to get good work out of broken systems, made of adolescents and often-feeble administrators, rather than the think-tank world of ideological abstractions (or whatever god damn milieu Donald Trump is supposed to embody).
posted by argybarg at 9:39 AM on August 6 [70 favorites]

High School GSA advisor!

In 1999!

In 1999, my high school had a GSA, which was called BAGLS, but the club posters were not allowed to say that it was an LGBTQ+ club. And the posters got ripped down almost as soon as they got put up.

To be a GSA advisor in 1999 shows, I think, a great deal of decency and more than a bit of courage.
posted by Jeanne at 9:40 AM on August 6 [109 favorites]

This is a good thing.
posted by freakazoid at 9:41 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

"Tim Walz represents the father we lost to Fox News"

Oof.. that headline is a gut punch. But also, yes!
posted by darkstar at 9:41 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

I'm counting the minutes until people who've been taught by Walz pipe up and say how awesome a teacher he was. And maybe those people are running for city council or state rep or prosecutor or something, and being awesome wholesome people themselves.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:42 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

>a great deal of decency

In 2000 (and again in 2008) Californians infamously voted 60-40 to backtrack on gay rights, yes.
posted by torokunai at 9:43 AM on August 6

Walz is a great choice, let's dance!
posted by mersen at 9:43 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Hey, every teacher has students who hate them. Even, or maybe especially, the good teachers!
posted by argybarg at 9:44 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

One thing I've noticed is how strong the Democratic back bench is going into the next few cycles.

I hope this isn't a derail but that's the biggest takeaway from the last month for me. Like there's just been this weird gaslighting that "only Biden can win," it was a kind of Trumpian inversion that became a conventional wisdom.

I think it comes from the party maneuvering him onto the ticket to keep Bernie away from the electorate in 2020, and then his success in beating Trump. That whole effort required all these fresh-faced and ambitious people off the ticket in a chorus of "Bernie can't win [and by implication, neither can we]" and continued up through last month.

But you take Joe Biden off the stage and it's an embarrassment of plausible candidates -- the "shallow" bench is so occupied that it can't even fit most of the 2020 contenders anymore. I don't like most of the people on the bench but it's hard to discount that so many of them are both plausible candidates and were better positioned to campaign and win than Biden was. The field is so crowded that a Midwestern governor who is a football coach and LGBTQ+ ally whose entire non-gubernatorial web presence appears to just be photos of him hugging his daughter had been crowded out of the picture.
posted by kensington314 at 9:44 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

I'm pro Walz and happy about this (as a Minnesotan I've already voted for him) but I'm always amazed at how psyched everyone gets about the high-school teacher thing. I went to high school -- I was absolutely not impressed or excited about my teachers. The idea of them going elsewhere and excelling was unthinkable. Walz seems like exception rather than an example.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:46 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

> I'd have a lot more respect for people making statements like "prosecutors are evil"

i mean obviously her record as a prosecutor is not a reason to vote against harris in november, that's silly. however, it's very worthwhile for everyone to keep in mind that doing that particular job in america as stands inevitably causes moral injury to the person who does it, and over time that can warp a person's worldview. people have made attempts to do morally good things from the office of district attorney, but almost all of those people have been chased out of office as a result. here i'm thinking primarily of chesa boudin in san francisco, who got recalled so fuckin' hard so fuckin' quickly.

if "prosecutors are evil!" isn't a frame you're comfortable with, perhaps "prosecutor is a job that damages good people who do it" is more palatable. it's less "being a prosecutor makes someone a bad person" in the sense meaning "only a bad person wants this job," and more "being a prosecutor makes someone a bad person" in the sense meaning "doing this job does moral harm to the person doing it."

i guess really for anything on this topic i 100% defer to corb, since corb 1) is working in the belly of the beastly legal system and 2) is brilliant and 3) has a nigh-infallable moral compass.

in any case, obviously none of this is a reason to not vote for harris, because it is unreasonable to want or expect someone running for a position of high power within an electoral system to be a good person.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:47 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

Sen. Mark Kelly on XTwitter:

Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz are going to move us forward. They’re already building a campaign to unite our country — and Gabby Giffords and I are ready to do everything we can to help them win.

posted by darkstar at 9:47 AM on August 6 [51 favorites]

What a headline "AOC and Manchin out with enthusiastic praise of Tim Walz as VP pick."

What makes me the happiest about this pick is that it seems like maybe, just maybe, the Dems are broadly learning that using government to help people is actually popular. And that former educators might make for better leaders than lawyers. I'm obviously biased as the child of an educator and an educator myself, but I think there are few jobs that make you engage (and not just interact, but collaborate, mentor, etc.) with such a broad range of people different from yourself, not only in terms of age (from senior admin to children) but if you're at a public school, often quite a wide range of class, race, sexuality, etc. Of my parents, I'd say my dad in his 20s was politically left of my mom, but now in their 70s, my mom is the one whose views have grown and opened more with time - I don't think it's a coincidence that my mom was a teacher.
posted by coffeecat at 9:47 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

(He also has a son and a dog.)
posted by box at 9:47 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

>
To be a GSA advisor in 1999 shows, I think, a great deal of decency and more than a bit of courage.

And to have that role, he either proposed the club himself or had students approach him to moderate it. There’s a slim chance admin would have asked him to do it. All of those possibilities further underscore his decency.
posted by SaneCatLady at 9:48 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

And my next wish is that Harris gives Katie Taylor and Stacy Abrams prominent cabinet positions.
posted by ishmael at 9:49 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

a Midwestern governor who is a football coach and LGBTQ+ ally

And in the mid-1990s! That's what really warms my heart - as someone who was in middle school during that time, it's worth remembering how ubiquitous the f-word was on playgrounds across the country - it was a really homophobic time. My own school prevented and Gay-Straight alliance club from happening because it would be "too political."
posted by coffeecat at 9:50 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

I went to high school -- I was absolutely not impressed or excited about my teachers.

Most of mine definitely belonged in that job instead of another job, but I was always delighted by about half of them. They taught me things! A very large proportion of the things that I still know! They helped me learn to write, process information, structure an argument, I probably cribbed a large part of my sense of humor from my history teacher. I'm sure if I had better raw material for learning, they would have even taught me math!

But I think what people are responding to is the sense of decency. Being a teacher is being a public servant, and being a public servant is a humble and thankless form of decency. It's not going to some Ivy so you can become whatever party-adjacent job is available to you so you can run for the first available office so you can eventually be president. People are responding to their sense of wonder that someone who began as a teacher would end up here at all.
posted by kensington314 at 9:51 AM on August 6 [34 favorites]

Harris has the opportunity to build such an extraordinary Cabinet. There are so many extremely talented, dedicated and experienced folks she can pick from, the possibilities are really exciting!
posted by darkstar at 9:53 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

it is unreasonable to want or expect someone running for a position of high power within an electoral system to be a good person

that last sortition draw was rigged and there's evidence, so much evidence, you'll be tired of evidence
posted by flabdablet at 9:55 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

our lottery monitors have reported seeing shoeboxes full of numbered ping pong balls dragged in from behind the pot plants
posted by flabdablet at 9:56 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Someone who works as a high school teacher puts up with poor pay and a lot of immature disrespect. That doesn't mean they're a good person, or noble for their job choice, or anything. But when someone works as a high school teacher and otherwise has proven himself to be a good, compassionate, and intelligent person? Then that's saying something about his priorities and quality.
posted by meese at 9:56 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

I'm counting the minutes until people who've been taught by Walz pipe up and say how awesome a teacher he was.

Good luck finding it now, but for the last week or so there's been a thing popping up on BlueSky where one of his former students was like, "we didn't have any air conditioning in the building and so when Mr. Walz would get excited about a topic he would get all hyper and sweaty and disheveled which just made us pay attention so we could figure out what the heck was so exciting that he would wave his arms around until his shirt came untucked." (paraphrasing, obvs.)
posted by soundguy99 at 9:56 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

> And in the mid-1990s!

yeah, that's a big deal. like, remember how in the early 2000s howard dean had to wear a bulletproof vest in vermont of all places just for supporting civil unions?

in terms of law and in terms of electoral politics there's been so much positive change so relatively quickly, and you gotta give a lot of credit to the politicians who were involved early on.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:57 AM on August 6 [27 favorites]

Choosing Shapiro would have shown she's deaf and blind on Gaza.

Eyeless, surely.
posted by aws17576 at 10:00 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

I've been a "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" type most of my life, but after 2016 that changed into "expect the worst, prepare for the worst." I just didn't feel like I could emotionally handle hoping for something better and being crushed again.

I feel like it's worth mentioning that rabid right-wing politics at the federal level affects those of us in red states a lot because the federal government is what protects us from our own rabid right-wing politicians. I'm fully expecting to have to uproot my life and move as soon as my parents pass and I can find the money to do so.

This is making it really, really hard not to hope again.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:03 AM on August 6 [28 favorites]

folks should read that genocide article Maarika posted. It is really something.

So Mr. Walz took his students Brandon Bell, the wrestler; Beth Taylor, the cheerleader; Lanae Merwin, the quiet girl always reading some book about Queen Elizabeth; and all the other children of mechanics, secretaries and a town dentist and assigned them to study the conditions associated with mass murder. What factors, he asked them to determine, had been present when Germans slaughtered Jews, Turks murdered Armenians, the Khmer Rouge ravaged their Cambodian countrymen?
. . . .

For nine weeks through the winter and early spring that school year, through the howling blizzards and the planting of the first alfalfa on the plains, the class pored over data about economics, natural resources and ethnic composition. They read about civil war, colonialism and totalitarian ideology. They worked with reference books and scholarly reports, long before conducting research took place instantly online.
. . . .

When the students finished with the past, Mr. Walz gave a final exam of sorts. He listed about a dozen current nations Yugoslavia, Congo, some former Soviet republics among them and asked the class as a whole to decide which was at the greatest risk of sliding into genocide.

Their answer was: Rwanda. The evidence was the ethnic divide between Hutus and Tutsis, the favoritism toward Tutsis shown by the Belgian colonial regime, and the previous outbreaks of tribal violence. Mr. Walz awarded high marks.
. . . .

THE next April, in 1994, Mr. Walz heard news reports of a plane carrying the Rwandan president, Juvenal Habyarimana, being shot down. He told himself at the time, “This is not going to end up good.”
posted by kensington314 at 10:04 AM on August 6 [96 favorites]

Gift link for the NYT article that Maarika posted
posted by chainringtattoo at 10:07 AM on August 6 [19 favorites]

The cat who moved into my house and sleeps with me is named Honey, so my vote is set.
posted by funkaspuck at 10:08 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

1. There is no opting out. The entireyu of ~~the Global North~~ human history is built on the suffering and death of others, and it's inescapable.

FTFY
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:08 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

In one of the threads, there was a good discussion about good weird vs bad weird. Consensus was that, like Kitteh just said, we can identify as weird and still be proud of being "good weird", but clearly that is not the type of weird Trump is. He is bad weird and it is used negatively towards him.

That does seem to be what many others say and I can see how people have come to view it as a useful heuristic. I think some people can get spooked by other people calling them "weird", or are not ready to be proud of being weird, and that is not diagnostic of being bad weird.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 10:09 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

And when I look at photos of Walz and Kamala Harris, it is just flabbergasting me that they're the same age.

If this isn't proof that Harris really is a black woman, I don't know what is.
posted by phunniemee at 10:11 AM on August 6 [34 favorites]

This is making it really, really hard not to hope again

Help America Hope Again isn't half bad as blue hat slogans go.
posted by flabdablet at 10:13 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

Yeah, like... do people know her record beyond media soundbytes? Because prosecuting child sexual abuse, creating a unit focusing on hate crimes towards LGBTQ+ individuals, supporting SF as a sanctuary city for immigrants, obtaining a 1.2 billion judgement against a for-profit college defrauding students, filing a brief to overturn California's ban on affirmative action, mandating corporations prominently display what data they are gathering and who they share it with, refusing to defend Prop 8, and banning the gay and trans panic defense, are all actions of someone who is trying to do the right, decent thing.

She also stood up against pretty much the entire Democratic Party establishment in California -- including Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Jerry Brown, and Gavin Newsom -- and risked her political future when she refused to seek the death penalty for a gang member charged with killing a cop:

In May 2004, the San Francisco Chronicle interviewed the city’s embattled district attorney, Kamala D. Harris. “A few months ago, the buzz was that you were a real up-and-comer, destined for statewide office,” a reporter told her. “This could put the kibosh on all of that.”

The reference was to Harris’s decision not to seek the death penalty against a gang member charged with gunning down a police officer. As a candidate for district attorney in 2003, Harris opposed capital punishment (as did both of her opponents). Shortly after her election victory, the Los Angeles Times reported that she “pledged never to seek the death penalty.”

So when Harris announced — days after the killing of officer Isaac Espinoza — that she would not try to execute the killer, there should have been no great surprise. Nonetheless, her swift decision prompted a political revolt that led many of the state’s most powerful Democratic Party politicians to distance themselves from her.

posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:13 AM on August 6 [41 favorites]

Jonathan Chait has a condescending short essay about how much smarter he is than Kamala Harris and how she doesn't "understand the assignment."
posted by kensington314 at 10:14 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

FTFY

Oh, piffle. Human history has its ups and downs - juster and safer at some times, worse and more dangerous at others. If every human society is equally as bad as every other but just in different ways and all are always built on abusing and killing anyone weaker than you, we might as well all give up and go tend our [walled] gardens. Being a prosecutor in the heart of the imperialist beast isn't especially good for the soul and I'm not going to say that it is, or make some claim that all achievable human societies need prisons or whatever.
posted by Frowner at 10:14 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

some great supporting evidence for this being the correct choice is how centrist handwringers (chait et al) are banging out beard-stroking screeds about how harris/walz need to pivot to the right immediately
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:15 AM on August 6 [39 favorites]

Jonathan Chait has a condescending short essay about how much smarter he is than Kamala Harris and how she doesn't "understand the assignment."

We need something on metafilter like a favorite only it should convey "christ what an asshole - not you, commenter"
posted by Frowner at 10:15 AM on August 6 [32 favorites]

That ESRI ArcGIS video Maarika posted is really great. It shows Walz as progressive, engaged, someone who values people, and who understands both data and how to communicate with it. People often equate "folksy" with average, but there's nothing average about Walz.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:16 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Help America Hope Again isn't half bad as blue hat slogans go.

(*Nelson Muntz laugh*)
posted by mazola at 10:17 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

We need something on metafilter like a favorite only it should convey "christ what an asshole - not you, commenter"

[Types up MetaTalk submission, clicks "Post."]
posted by kensington314 at 10:17 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Decent people don't become career prosecutors.

You'll want to go back through the previous Harris Campaign thread where someone shared a link to an article about why she pursued that career choice and it's very much a decent person making choice to try and drive positive change.

I was skeptical about the cop thing too but it's really really not that at all.
posted by VTX at 10:17 AM on August 6 [29 favorites]

I see some superficial parallels to Bernie Sanders in Walz, which is enough to make me, a hardened leftist, happy. I have been surprised to not see the comparison made yet. Northern border state official, rural support, ability to champion progressive issues with a conservative base, likeable (grand)dad vibes, meme-worthiness, folksy manner, these aren't deep, but at least it's a broad surface.
posted by criticalyeast at 10:21 AM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I think some people can get spooked by other people calling them "weird", or are not ready to be proud of being weird, and that is not diagnostic of being bad weird.

100% agree. I hope no one thought my comment was saying anything remotely close to that.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:22 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

(*Nelson Muntz laugh*)

Exactly. Plus, the cap could have Minnesota ear flaps cunningly tailored so that when you clip them upward it looks a bit like a couch.
posted by flabdablet at 10:22 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

I've been reminded that this year is the year of the wood Dragon in east Asian calendars, and both candidates are 60 meaning, 1. They're Dragon-born

Let's get those Skyrim memes rolling in!

Harris/Walz: Victory Or Sovngarde
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:23 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Also, his wife Gwen sounds like a really good person. From the NYTimes:

Ms. Walz introduced herself to Minnesotans with an ambitious policy portfolio when her husband became governor in 2019. At the time, the post of the first lady had been vacant for nearly a decade, as the previous governor, Mark Dayton, was unmarried. When Ms. Walz established a physical office in the Minnesota State Capitol just steps away from her husband’s office — which previous first ladies had not done — she made a splash on the political stage with an agenda focused on criminal justice reform and education policy.

She toured state prisons and chaired a task force on reducing recidivism that focused on providing housing and education to former prisoners. As part of her efforts to reform the criminal justice system, she also sought to improve the curricula offered to inmates. Her efforts extended beyond Minnesota too, as she promoted the Bard Prison Initiative, a program in upstate New York that aims to give prisoners a liberal arts education.

posted by coffeecat at 10:24 AM on August 6 [32 favorites]

I see some superficial parallels to Bernie Sanders in Walz, which is enough to make me, a hardened leftist, happy. I have been surprised to not see the comparison made yet.

There's also some of Biden's old public persona in him. That "middle-class Joe with a cool-guy's car and a hardscrabble non-coastal appeal" thing, which was always transparent malarkey as applied to Biden, is kind of actually apparently what Tim Walz is?
posted by kensington314 at 10:24 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

I am super excited for Walz. I like him based on his general biography and some of the things happening in MN, but that ESRI speech is great.

Also maybe metafilter is more cat people but I demand more mentions of Scout - the dog, not the vintage SUV
posted by CostcoCultist at 10:25 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

GodDAMN now I'm excited about the potential for criminal justice reform from Harris AND the Walz camp!
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:26 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Make America Ope Again

(Deep Minnesota reference)
posted by misterpatrick at 10:26 AM on August 6 [18 favorites]

on walz specifically, i keep going back to a quote of his as governor: "you don’t win elections to bank political capital — you win elections to burn political capital and improve lives"

i absolutely love this attitude. i think a lot of us have gotten tired of seeing elected representatives wince at the very idea of doing anything that might meet the disapproval of people who don't give a shit about the poor, the marginalised, the struggling, all for the sake of some mealy-mouthed "political pragmatism". walz has proven you can get progressive policies passed in the face of concerted opposition if you really want to, in everything from ensuring school kids get fed to protecting trans people

i'm excited to see him as vp, but even more so as senate president. the time for catering to soulless ghouls has long been over. looking forward to see his energy taken to the next level
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:27 AM on August 6 [64 favorites]

I don't see the parallel between Walz and Sanders beyond the age and the lack of self-conscious polish. Walz comes across as someone who genuinely cares for others, and Sanders someone who only cares for others insofar as it helps him personally.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:28 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Make America Ope Again

OPE [@bendawson | bsky]

[edit: proper attribution]
posted by mazola at 10:29 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

I don't see the parallel between Walz and Sanders beyond the age

Sanders is old enough to be Walz' dad with room to spare. (It's dads all the way down.)
posted by phunniemee at 10:31 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

‘Weird’ and kinda wonderful: Why Walz is exactly what Harris needs

And when MAGA put IVF in their crosshairs? Well, Hope is an IVF baby. So Walz had this to say about it:

“Even if you’ve never gone through the hell of infertility, someone you know has. When Gwen and I were having trouble getting pregnant, the anxiety and frustration blotted out the sun. JD Vance opposing the miracle of IVF is a direct attack on my family and so many others.”
posted by kensington314 at 10:32 AM on August 6 [65 favorites]

Immature whining about ardent progressives and relitigating the 2016 primaries is a supremely weird look.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:32 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

I'm making a 'Herman the German' hotdish for dinner tomorrow night!
posted by MtDewd at 10:36 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Tiny, humble request to the mods at this juncture to increase the favorite limit. Even jest a scoche.
posted by ishmael at 10:37 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Walz comes across as someone who genuinely cares for others, and Sanders someone who only cares for others insofar as it helps him personally.

This only makes sense if in the 60s Bernie was a pregnant woman imprisoned in South Africa.

Bernie’s been on the right side of nearly every issue for half a decade.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:39 AM on August 6 [35 favorites]

Can we please not refight the 2016 primary again? Even if you want to shit on Walz, can we shit on Walz and not make this yet again about Bernie (who, I hasten to add, strongly backed Walz alongside the Squad as his preferred nominee for VP?)
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:45 AM on August 6 [53 favorites]

Bernie’s been on the right side of nearly every issue for half a decade.

Yes but what if he's only doing it for clout and this is all just a long con.

Anyway I want more cute stories about Tim Walz please.
posted by phunniemee at 10:45 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Watching right wing people this morning talking about how terrible this pick is and how it should have been Shapiro only reinforces my feeling that this is a good pick and Shapiro would have been a terrible choice.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:46 AM on August 6 [52 favorites]

During Reading Month, Governor Walz and Lieutenant Governor Flanagan Highlight Legislation to Prevent Book Bans

“Our commitment to making Minnesota the best state in the nation for children means increasing access to books, not censoring them. Taking books away from kids and schools does not protect our children – it erases many of the stories and voices that do.”

posted by box at 10:47 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

55 Things to Know About Tim Walz, Kamala Harris’ Pick for VP

Imagine an equivalent piece about JD Vance.

In his state Capitol office, Walz displays hundreds of “challenge” coins that he’s traded and collected for years around the world.

Walz’s father, a school administrator, died of lung cancer when Walz was 19. Walz said this moment fueled his views on health care access: “The last week of my dad’s life cost my mom a decade of going back to work to pay off hospital debt.”

Both children were conceived through IVF and fertility treatments: “There’s a reason we named [our daughter] Hope.”

He said he was inspired to join Kerry’s campaign after he took a group of high school students to a George W. Bush campaign rally and security interrogated one of his students because he had a Kerry sticker on his wallet.

Walz first met his lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, when he attended Wellstone Action, founded after the 2002 death of Sen. Paul Wellstone to train progressive organizers, activists and candidates. “I showed up and had a fantastic young trainer who turned out to be Peggy Flanagan. That’s when we started our friendship.”

His beverage of choice is Diet Mountain Dew. He got a DWI in Nebraska in 1995 before he quit drinking.

Walz signed a bill last May expanding voting rights for an estimated 55,000 formerly incarcerated residents.

He is a self-proclaimed sci-fi fantasy guy when it comes to books. “I just finished reading the four-book series Mortal Engines. I read a lot of these young adult ones, because I do it with my kids. I was reading that one with Gus,” he said in 2019. “And then I just finished one I would not suggest reading because it is terrifying: Command and Control. It traces the history of America’s nuclear arsenal.”
It also says his favorite Dylan song is "Forever Young," doesn't mention if it's the A-side's slow version or the B-side's fast version. So far this is my biggest quibble about Walz though; "Forever Young" is not even a top 25 Dylan song.
posted by kensington314 at 10:47 AM on August 6 [26 favorites]

I said nothing about the 2016 primary. That's you, not me. I think Sanders is a consummate con artist, but I said it in the context of liking Walz, here in 2024. Have a nice day.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:49 AM on August 6

In honor of the Minnesota connection, I'd like to suggest that mod warnings in this thread be done in the voice of Marge Gunderson from "Fargo".

(Can we have at least one "You've got no call to be snippy!" by the end of the day? Thanks.)
posted by gimonca at 10:49 AM on August 6 [13 favorites]

It also says his favorite Dylan song is "Forever Young," doesn't mention if it's the A-side's slow version or the B-side's fast version. So far this is my biggest quibble about Walz though; "Forever Young" is not even a top 25 Dylan song.

sure but what's his favourite prince song??
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:49 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

It's official: Using purple ink, Gov. Walz signs bill that renames stretch of highway after Prince
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:51 AM on August 6 [44 favorites]

sure but what's his favourite prince song??

Don't ruin Walz for us this early. Everyone knows the answer is going to "Little Red Corvette" or something similarly incorrect.
posted by kensington314 at 10:51 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

In case anyone from the Walz campaign might be reading: his favorite Prince song is the version of 'Purple Rain' from the 2007 Super Bowl halftime show.
posted by box at 10:55 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

Never mind that -- what're his favorite Replacements and Husker Du songs? It certainly feels like a new day rising to me!
posted by AJaffe at 10:56 AM on August 6 [39 favorites]

Make America Ope Again

(Deep Minnesota reference)

Listen, Minnesotans, I love you. So very much. Your state fair is *chef's kiss* and y'all are just really nice people.

But "ope" isn't just yours. It's ALLLLLLLL over the midwest. Be nice and share, okay?
posted by cooker girl at 10:57 AM on August 6 [12 favorites]

What’s his favorite pre- grave dancers union soul asylum song. If it’s not ‘Cartoon’ I’m voting trump.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:57 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Huskers is obviously "Flip Your Wig."

Replacements is gonna have to be "Lay It Down Clown" for the 2024 campaign trail.
posted by kensington314 at 10:58 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

One of the things that I've been impressed by over the past couple weeks is that it looks like the Democrats have finally learned how to fight in today's landscape.

Exactly this. I’ve been saying until the last two weeks the Ds were going by the 2008 playbook not realizing it ain’t 2008 no more. Yes we want decency to prevail but decency needs to have some teeth
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:59 AM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Who does Tim Wallz think is better, The Time or Apollonia 6?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:01 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

I don’t think I’d like to have a beer with Walz, because he doesn’t drink. But I’d totally go curling with him.

(I don’t even know how to curl, I live in AZ and am a little relieved we can keep our astronaut senator… )
posted by nat at 11:01 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

What's his favorite The Suburbs song?
posted by Windopaene at 11:03 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

oh wow not this video of Tim Walz curling in a fucking carpenters' union quarter zip. is he running for vice president or for president? let's not get out over our skis here, dude.
posted by kensington314 at 11:03 AM on August 6 [5 favorites]

What Kamala Harris chose Tim Walz (Politico, today)
posted by box at 11:03 AM on August 6

Debate preview: "First Avenue main stage or 7th Street Entry, Governor?" (flop sweat)
posted by credulous at 11:04 AM on August 6 [7 favorites]

I like Walz, but let's not pretend that leftist critiques of Harris aren't legitimate, or that specific critiques of her as prosecuter aren't legitimate, or that queer folks have to be in favour of the kind of state specific neo-liberal solutions like marriage, or even that marriage is not a deeply conserative way of making families that does active damage to other ways of queer living.

I hate this whole, everyone needs to get on the bus mode. Kamala and Walz are better, but better in the way that they are keeping the enterprise going for a few more years,and aren't fascists, but she's a cop.

There are so many reasons not to like her--she has dome violence to trans folks, to sex workers, to immigrants, to working clas folks--direct violence. She is a liberal who can hide that violence with slick language--she is the SF of politicians. For a younger generation who has given up on reform, of the constabulary, she is a cop. It is not regressive to point out that acab as a policy position means that not being suddenly in favour of cops.

Sending women to men's prisons, policing refugees, and aggressively being in favour of truency courts, her policies on Israel and Palestine, her lack of agressive policies on housing, her softness on student debt relief---that Walz seems to be the left of her, is part of this.

This is going to be torn to peices, but let's not kid ourselves in the chorus of cheer leading.
posted by PinkMoose at 11:05 AM on August 6 [20 favorites]

Debate preview: "First Avenue main stage or 7th Street Entry, Governor?" (flop sweat)

i lol'd
posted by kensington314 at 11:05 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Have the Gear Daddies released their endorsement?
posted by stet at 11:06 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Walz seems to sincerely, honestly be a good-hearted guy who wants to make his community - including his global community - a better place, and is willing to step up to make that happen.

I've met him only once, in 2018 during his first gubernatorial run, but everything in that brief interaction affirmed this take.
posted by nickmark at 11:06 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

So far this is my biggest quibble about Walz though; "Forever Young" is not even a top 25 Dylan song.

Maybe he heard it while watching The Last Walz.
sorry
posted by Crane Shot at 11:07 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

What Kamala Harris chose Tim Walz (Politico, today):

On Saturday, those involved in the process, joined by Harris’ White House Chief of Staff Lorraine Voles, briefed Harris on their findings, discussing each candidate for about an hour to 90 minutes. By that afternoon, Shapiro, Kelly and Walz were invited to the Naval Observatory for one-on-one meetings with Harris, described as a “chemistry test.”

Harris and her staff wanted to take as much time as possible, considering the stakes of the decision and the truncated process she had to employ. Harris told staff on Sunday that she wanted to sleep on it, a person involved in the vetting told POLITICO, adding that Harris made the decision yesterday and told a small set of staff Monday evening.

Harris’ staff was preparing for the possibility that any one of the finalists could be picked. Beginning Sunday, staff prepared videos, messaging memos, stump speeches and website graphics for all three men.

Harris and her staff wanted to take as much time as possible, considering the stakes of the decision and the truncated process she had to employ. Harris told staff on Sunday that she wanted to sleep on it, a person involved in the vetting told POLITICO, adding that Harris made the decision yesterday and told a small set of staff Monday evening.

There's something about her decision to "sleep on it" and think about it that makes me admire her a lot more. She probably had some initial thoughts, but whatever they were she didn't want to rush things, yet still did it quickly.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

Interesting that some of the early takes from the Trump camp seem focused on Harris *not* picking Shapiro. It seems like maybe Team Trump was expecting otherwise and so is now having to scramble to rethink their plans to run against Shapiro in the same way they had to scramble to rethink their plans to run against Biden. If the worst attack they have against Walz is seriously "he's not Shapiro therefore Harris hates Jews", when a massive chunk of their own backbone of support either loudly or quietly hates Jews... well. I feel pretty good about this pick.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:17 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Time to buy stock in Diet Mountain Dew.
posted by darkstar at 11:18 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

This is going to be torn to peices, but let's not kid ourselves in the chorus of cheer leading.

i am a trans leftist, aware of and acknowledging as valid all the critiques of Harris. literally no leftist i know supporting her is "kidding themselves" about the reality we live in. i am celebrating that, for once, i am not waking up with a knot in my stomach over the prospect of what november might bring; that there is actually a better chance that we might avoid a catastrophic president who has openly declared his genocidal intent towards my trans siblings. i am feeling a slight loosening of my shoulder muscles that the very, very worst scenario might be avoided, not that we are all skipping happily into queer socialist heaven. i do not begrudge anyone their misgivings and accurate criticisms, and i do not begrudge my trans siblings the glimmer of hope they feel in these darkest of times, either
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:22 AM on August 6 [126 favorites]

Weird is a bit of a loaded word for me because the year I was 20, I had an absolute harpy of a roommate whom at the time I considered to be whiny, obnoxious, immature, and selfish, and whom I now realize was an abusive narcissist. She spent the entire year claiming that I owed it to her to spend every waking minute with her, give her whatever she wanted, do whatever she wanted, run my entire life the way she wanted, listen to everything she wanted to say no matter how whiny, boring, insulting, or offensive it was, and in general let her treat me as badly as she pleased without any criticism or pushback or anger on my part. When I wouldn't comply, she tried to convince me that I was weird, a loser, a bad friend, and a bitch. She said, or screamed, each of those things to me somewhere between four and five hundred times that year.

To give you a very small sampling of her atrocious behaviours, if I locked my door so she couldn't walk into my room whenever she wanted, I was weird. If I yelled at her because she barged into my room and then stood there and stared at me while I was changing, laughing her head off with malicious pleasure over my humiliation, I was a bitch. When I got mad at her because she deliberately snuck a look at my passcode when I was using an ATM and then bragged that she knew my passcode, she screamed at me that it was just a joke and I was a bitch. When I refused to compliment her on her hair ten times a day, and told her to stop asking me to do so, she called me a bitch. She hated having to spend her precious money on groceries for herself, and if I wouldn't give her my food whenever she demanded it, I was a cheap bitch and rude. (Item: I had barely enough money to live on that year, while her parents gave her more money whenever she asked for it, and she did not offer me any of her food, nor did I ever ask her to give me any.) When I began to date a guy she'd introduced me to (he was the ex-boyfriend of a friend of hers and not someone she was interested in herself), she said I was a bad friend and a bitch who didn't care about her feelings, about the fact that she was no longer "the important one in the middle", and every single day of the three and half months he and I were going out, she did everything she could to break us up. When she began to see a married guy, and I said I didn't want to hear about it, she said I was a bad friend and a bitch. One night when we'd been arguing I went out without her just to get away from her, and as soon as I got through the door, she came running down the screaming, "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!!?" and when I said, in a matter-of-fact manner, "I went to a movie," she screamed, her face twisted with rage, "YOU WENT TO A MOVIE BY YOURSELF???!!!! ONLY LOSERS DO THAT!!!!!"

Her insults were pure manipulation and projection, and represented all of her own worst failings and fears about herself. I let the word weird roll off me; she was terrified of being thought weird. She spent the whole year sneering at me for how weird I supposedly was, when the fact of the matter was that it was her behaviour that was not normal or acceptable. She was not only a nasty piece of work who loved treating people like shit, but also very tedious, limited person who who very seldom had any interesting ideas or insights into anything (yet felt everything she had to say was incredibly important and interesting and that I should listen to it all avidly), and she was pathologically jealous of anyone who had anything at all that she didn't, such as creative ability, and the confidence to use it.

I've learned a lot about abuse in the many years that have passed since. I've learned that it's not enough to just behave well oneself, that one must also know how to deal effectively with abusive and/or unprincipled people. I've learned that responding to abuse with grace and patience is nothing but a recipe for more abuse. I've learned that trying to appeal to an abuser's conscience or empathy is useless. I've learned that there's such a thing as rightful anger. I've learned that it's important to be proactive about protecting oneself, and to make sure one doesn't get railroaded into doing self-sabotaging things, or out of doing constructive things, by abusive people. I've learned that abusers ought to be publicly exposed whenever possible, and that one should appeal to authorities whenever one can, rather than trying to deal with abuse privately and independently.

So yeah, fun, cool weirdos are all welcome in the spaces where principled, caring, liberal-minded people are congregating to take care of things and work for change. But we're locking our doors against the creepy, controlling, abusive weirdos, and we're calling them out for what they are, and man does it feel good.
posted by orange swan at 11:24 AM on August 6 [33 favorites]

if "prosecutors are evil!" isn't a frame you're comfortable with, perhaps "prosecutor is a job that damages good people who do it"

... but so, then, is "President."
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:24 AM on August 6 [31 favorites]

That genocide article was remarkable - it's showing me something about his character and analytical skills and sense of history that I can't bear to keep my hopes up too much. It's been about 305 days since 7 Oct 2023. Looks like myself at the periphery will have to wait for 90 days more. I hope that there is still a people left to save.
posted by cendawanita at 11:26 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

Tim Walz took historic action to protect trans people, now he's the Dem VP choice (the always-excellent Erin in the Morning)
posted by box at 11:28 AM on August 6 [23 favorites]

You may think that they have chosen an incorrect or ineffective way to go about it, but that doesn't mean "career prosecutor = bad person." People love to take the ACAB political framework and apply it to the entire criminal justice system but that's an incredibly lazy way to engage with the politics behind said framework.

I promise to God you don’t want the public defender to do a breakdown of each and every prosecutorial decision Kamala Harris has ever made to explain that yes, some of us firmly believe that career prosecutors are bad people and we have very solid, non-lazy reasons for believing this, or that the entire criminal “justice” system as it currently exists in America is rotten to the motherfucking core.

I think that people are better served being happy that people like me are rooting for her to beat Trump, than trying to get us to say, for example, that career prosecutors are angels. Take the fucking win.
posted by corb at 11:31 AM on August 6 [53 favorites]

Walz was a command sergeant major which means he's equipped with that all terrifying yet motivational "look"

in other words if he debated vance, there'd be the basilisk effect rendering Vance into a dozen jelly donuts.

good choice.
posted by clavdivs at 11:31 AM on August 6 [15 favorites]

if "prosecutors are evil!" isn't a frame you're comfortable with, perhaps "prosecutor is a job that damages good people who do it"

Again, true of many fields. You don't get to invoke "moral injury" while ignoring that the vast majority of research on moral injury is in healthcare because that is a job that I guaran-fucking-tee you causes more moral injury than being a prosecutor does. And if you have not worked in a field with severe and constant moral injury, I don't think you should be making any pronouncements on what it does to good people. Because those of us who have actually experienced repeated moral injury know a lot more about what it looks like when someone has succumbed to the system vs built a sustainable path through while keeping their moral core intact. We can debate her record, but claiming "she's a prosecutor, so it must have turned her into a bad person" is baldly insulting to the many people, particularly marginalized people, who work in fields with high rates of moral injury.
posted by brook horse at 11:31 AM on August 6 [43 favorites]

Walz was a command sergeant major which means he's equipped with that all terrifying yet motivational "look"

in other words if he debated vance, there'd be the basilisk effect rendering Vance into a dozen jelly donuts.

good choice.

He's just gonna walk into the debate in a Springsteen shirt and one of those goofy camo baseball caps he wears.
posted by kensington314 at 11:33 AM on August 6 [6 favorites]

"All blank are blank" IS lazy, and I expect better on Metafilter.
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:33 AM on August 6 [37 favorites]

Meet VP Pick Tim Walz | Harris-Walz 2024
[Kamala Harris account, YouTube] 😊
posted by Glinn at 11:36 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

The Mastodon post is wrong. That photo is from an education bill, not child labor.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:36 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

“The last week of my dad’s life cost my mom a decade of going back to work to pay off hospital debt.”

Boy, did that just give me flashbacks to my dying dad. $24k a month to keep him alive in a vegetative, locked-in state is why my mom finally agreed to pull the plug.

Hi Metafilter! I'm finally in this thread hours and hours after the announcement and I'm so happy about it!
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:39 AM on August 6 [22 favorites]

The Mastodon post is wrong. That photo is from an education bill, not child labor.

Thanks for pointing this out, I wish we could steer clear of the misinformation game, but it's gonna be out there on the Left too.

The photo is her signing a voucher bill though, which I might argue is an anti-education bill.

I believe the (pro) child labor thing did get signed under her watch as well, but maybe even Sarah decided that wasn't a photo-op.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:41 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Huckabee Sanders signes (pro) child labor bill into law
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:42 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Tim Walz took historic action to protect trans people, now he's the Dem VP choice

Definitely worth a couple minutes to read. I didn't know how much he had done for our larger community's rights.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:42 AM on August 6 [4 favorites]

He's just gonna walk into the debate in a Springsteen shirt and one of those goofy camo baseball caps he wears.

Piglet under his arm.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on August 6 [14 favorites]

or that the entire criminal “justice” system as it currently exists in America is rotten to the motherfucking core.

Yes, it is. So is the healthcare system. Believe me, I am almost certain that my view on attending psychiatrists (who are capable of imprisoning individuals for up to 72 hours) and your view on prosecutors are very, very, very similar. But I still believe "x individual is a psychiatrist, so they must be a bad person" is intellectually lazy and again, not engaging with the politics of abolition in an honest or useful way.

I don't need anyone to say prosecutors are angels, and I don't even need anyone to say Harris has a good record. I just think claiming Walz is a decent person and Harris isn't because she is a prosecutor isn't actually engaging with prison abolition politics because by definition they are both enactors of state control and if Harris's role as prosecutor disqualifies her from being a good person, then so should Walz's role in government and the military.

If you think they're both bad people, that's fine, and I absolutely thank you for voting for them anyway. But "Walz is good, Harris is bad [specifically because she was a prosecutor and those are all bad people]" needs to be questioned particularly in the context of what motivates marginalized individuals to try and change state systems and what that says about them as people if they chose the "wrong" way to do that, and who we choose to criticize for being part of a "rotten system" and who we don't.
posted by brook horse at 11:46 AM on August 6 [62 favorites]

Piglet under his arm

Pheasant under the other
posted by flabdablet at 11:49 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

if you have not worked in a field with severe and constant moral injury, I don't think you should be making any pronouncements on what it does to good people.

Hi I was a war resister in the Iraq War. Would you like me to continue? Or can you accept that many of us have severe and fundamental moral opposition to prosecutors who seek “trial penalties” in a state that proclaims the right of “innocence until proven guilty” for people who actually exercise that right, and who demand sentencing enhancements for people who aren’t “repentant enough” (read: made the prosecutor do their fucking job by taking them to a fucking trial).
posted by corb at 11:51 AM on August 6 [11 favorites]

Anyhow, I’m excited to see a former teacher as the VP.
posted by Trifling at 11:55 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

I don't usually have a lot of money, but I donated! I am amazed and joyous over the string of events. Biden stepped down, Kamala stepped up and is rocking it, and now a good VP choice!! In a couple of weeks, the world got so much lighter and brighter. Hope and Changes, for real.
posted by Jacen at 11:58 AM on August 6 [10 favorites]

We Rate Dogs throwback: When Tim Walz' dog locked himself (the dog, not the governor) in the bedroom.

be sure to click/swipe through all three photos
posted by martin q blank at 11:58 AM on August 6 [43 favorites]

Walz first met his lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, when he attended Wellstone Action, founded after the 2002 death of Sen. Paul Wellstone to train progressive organizers, activists and candidates. “I showed up and had a fantastic young trainer who turned out to be Peggy Flanagan. That’s when we started our friendship.”

This is a key reason why I think progressives/people on the left have every right to be excited about Walz - he might be more of a standard liberal, but he's clearly open-minded and not afraid of the left and views progressives as partners. This is a signal that the Progressive Caucus is going to have an important seat at the table in a Harris-Walz administration. Unless you're an accelerationist, this really is an excellent sign - not of a future utopia, but at least actual progress.
posted by coffeecat at 11:59 AM on August 6 [37 favorites]

I believe that of all feasible options for a non-Republican presidential candidate in 2024, Kamala Harris was the least bad. I believe that of all feasible options for Harris's running mate, Tim Walz was the least bad. As for the larger philosophical question of whether, and to what degree, one's participation in a corrupt and broken system damages one's moral standing, I certainly have opinions on the subject but will, out of respect for the moderators of MetaFilter and the rules of this forum, refrain from elaborating on them here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:00 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

I appreciate your perspective, corb; my response was to a different justification which is unrelated to what you're talking about. "Exposure to moral injury over the course of one's career makes prosecutors bad people (but this isn't true for military officers, doctors, etc.)" is not the same argument as "this prosecutor took these specific actions which are immoral."
posted by brook horse at 12:01 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

From Dave Karpf: Tim Walz. Hell yeah.

You don’t pick Walz to shore up Minnesota’s ten electoral votes. You pick Walz to keep the entire Democratic Party whipped up and united and thrilled about kicking the absolute shit out of the Trump/Vance ticket.

Nate Silver describes the pick as “Minnesota nice.” He thinks its a conservative decision, and that Shapiro would’ve been higher-risk, higher-reward. That seems… completely backwards to me. The safe, standard approach is to pick a VP who helps you in the swingiest swing state (useful rule of thumb: if you’re agreeing with Chris Cilizza, you aren’t advocating anything risky).

What the Tim Walz pick represents is a Harris campaign determined to running and winning a nationwide campaign. They aren’t trying to survive Trump’s assault by eking out the narrowest win. They want to make the stakes of this election clear, play offense, keep their opponents off-balance, and absolutely bury Trumpism.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:02 PM on August 6 [67 favorites]

Meet Honey the Rescue Cat

Hands-Free Driving with Governor Walz & his daughter Hope

And bonus Lt Gov Flanagan MNStateFair Food Review: Blueberry Key Lime Pie
posted by nathan_teske at 12:04 PM on August 6 [18 favorites]

Basically if you think Walz and Harris are both bad people because of their time in systems that enforce state violence, that's fine and a coherent political stance. But if you criticize Harris and specifically say Walz is a decent person, then it's worth questioning why that is.
posted by brook horse at 12:04 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Thanks for the fact-check, CheeseDigestsAll. I flagged my own post for deletion.

And thanks, mcstayinskool, for the link to the NPR article on the pro child labor law she did actually sign.
posted by antinomia at 12:05 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

I love, love, love that not only did Tim Walz hold a deep red Congressional district for 12 years, winning it by as much as 30 points....

But one of those years he won it was literally 2016, a year that it went for Trump by 17 points!

Motherfucking unity candidate, right here.
posted by Gadarene at 12:09 PM on August 6 [24 favorites]

Meet Honey the Rescue Cat

I like that Honey is completely uncooperative and Walz quickly sets her down in the establishing shot and after that they don't even try to have her sit on Walz's lap or be held by him.

That's some honest cat representation right there. Walz understands cats.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:12 PM on August 6 [30 favorites]

We Rate Dogs throwback: When Tim Walz' dog locked himself (the dog, not the governor) in the bedroom.

Haha! The last pic is a campaign photo in itself. Doggos for Walz!
posted by mazola at 12:12 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

Apologies for Twitter link:

@ MerylKornfield
Whoops. These flyers were scattered on the media tables at the Vance event in Philly. Someone with a campaign staff lanyard came around to collect them and blamed a rough volunteer…

Would not recommend following a url on a random flyer but apparently it takes you to a geocities style site with a lot of antisemitic attacks on Shapiro.
posted by Artw at 12:13 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Both children were conceived through IVF and fertility treatments: “There’s a reason we named [our daughter] Hope.”

Oh, now that gets me in the Dad feels.

I was born and bred in Minnesota, and Walz feels so much like my kind of guy -- but that line... Ooof. I'm in.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:14 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

And bonus Lt Gov Flanagan MNStateFair Food Review: Blueberry Key Lime Pie
posted by nathan_teske at 12:04 PM on August 6

I LOVE THE WAY SHE SAYS PIE
posted by bluesky43 at 12:14 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

It feels rather odd to be the exact same age as the Democratic Presidential ticket

Oh, just wait until they’re younger than you!
posted by jgirl at 12:15 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

> ...Vance event in Philly

who thought that could possibly be a good idea??
posted by Clowder of bats at 12:16 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I kind of want Walz to talk about how he's not just a Democrat, he actually leads the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor (DFL) party.

In practice it's the same thing, since the Minnesota DFL generally wants what the national Democratic Party wants, and senators and representatives who run under the "DFL" banner in Minnesota always caucus with Democrats.

But the name and the history are pretty interesting.

The DFL’s story first began during the 1920s, when representatives of the Nonpartisan League in Minnesota entered candidates for state election under the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party. The party’s platform consisted of progressive agrarian reform, the protection of farmers and union workers, the public ownership of railroads, utilities, and natural resources, and social security legislation.

The party earned popularity and legislative legitimacy, even gaining victories in Minnesota State and Congressional elections over candidates of the two major parties. From 1921 to 1941, constituents elected three governors, four U.S. senators, and eight U.S. representatives under the affiliation of the Minnesota Farmer-Labor Party. Then, on April 15, 1944, the party united with the Minnesota Democratic Party to form the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party.

The first DFL governor, Orville Freeman, was elected in 1954. Since then, the DFL Party has earned majorities in the state House and Senate, elected some of our nation’s most respected officials to the U.S. House and Senate, and put DFLers in the White House with Vice Presidents Hubert H. Humphrey and Walter Mondale.

Up till now, every ballot Tim Walz has been on has listed his party affiliation as "DFL." And this seems to me like a good moment for him to tell people he takes the "farmer" and "labor" parts of that name seriously.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:17 PM on August 6 [51 favorites]

Mindful of an earlier MetaTalk discussion (Please give full names before using acronyms), I'd like to note for anyone else who's confused that GSA (as in "Tim Walz was a GSA advisor in 1999") stands for Gay-Straight Alliance; per Wikipedia, "a student-led or community-based organization, found in middle schools, high schools, colleges, and universities. These are primarily in the United States and Canada," so non North American readers may have been confused, as I was. (I thought it might have been Girl Scouts of America, something I can also totally see Walz supporting. I totally know about GSAs but had never heard the abbreviation.)

Minnesota LGBTQ+ org director: Tim Walz is ‘a consistent advocate’ , The Advocate, John Casey

Tim Walz is my new hero.
posted by kristi at 12:20 PM on August 6 [22 favorites]

Saw a TikTok with Wallz and the lieutenant governor Peggy Flanagan talking about the Nordic Waffles at the Minnesota State fair and damn those waffles sound good!

Spoiler alert: The Minnesota State Fair goes from August 22 to Sep 2 and I'm hella tempted to head up there for the day.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:21 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

This is a good, strong Democratic ticket. Probably the best of my lifetime.
posted by grubi at 12:22 PM on August 6 [37 favorites]

Would not recommend following a url on a random flyer but apparently it takes you to a geocities style site with a lot of antisemitic attacks on Shapiro.

While I fully support Walz on the ticket as opposed to Shapiro, I do hope we'll see a Jewish President or Vice President someday, especially considering the long history an ethnic minority like Jews have had had in the United States. As we're seeing more representation on tickets (female, Black, Indian-American), having a Middle Eastern ethnicity (e.g. Jews, Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, etc.) would be my hope for the future. But there has to be a real reckoning with American antisemitism before we get there.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:22 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

We could get a Jewish First Gentleman with this ticket. We've never had one of those before either!
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:24 PM on August 6 [18 favorites]

My only concern about this pick is that people are going to try and make hot dish a thing. I had Minnesotan parents and got enough of it as a child, thank you very much. It's cooking using only highly processed ingredients.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:25 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Gonna regret this but…

What is hot dish?

(I’m just kind of mentally filling it in as a casserole right now)
posted by Artw at 12:27 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Just want to thank Joe Biden for resetting the culture and giving us this timeline!
posted by ichomp at 12:28 PM on August 6 [50 favorites]

The DFL had real pressure from the hard left back in the 1920s, too: one of my forebears was an ardent Communist farmer, and up north in the mines they were super radical.

I would love it if someone with better JSTOR access than my employer could share "The Origins of Ethnic Radicalism in Northern Minnesota, 1900-1920" by Neil Betten from The International Migration Review, Vol. 4, No. 2 (Spring, 1970). Its opening paragraph (visible on the preview page) sounds spicy:

The iron mining area of northern Minnesota traditionally gave considerable support to radical causes. Until the late 1940's, the most influential labor unions in the area advocated massive change in the basic nature of the capitalist system. The radical Western Federation of Miners sporadically organized on the Mesabi iron range in the early twentieth century. The anarcho-syndicalist Industrial Workers of the World dominated range labor thinking from 1915 to 1920, and in the 1930's and 1940's the Mine Mill and Smelter Workers dwarfed other unions of the area. When the Communist Party emerged from splin- tered underground factions in the early 1920's Finnish-Americans, largerly from northern Minnesota, constituted its largest section. Gus Hall, present chairman of the Party, came from this radical Finnish tradition. In 1968 remnants of Minnesota's radical past still existed: the Communist Party placed its presidential candidate on the state ballot; an IWW shell functioned in Minnesota's iron country publishing a Finnish language radical newspaper; Minneapolis remained a center of Trotskyist activity; and the Socialist Labor Party still functioned in the state.

posted by wenestvedt at 12:28 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Just want to thank Joe Biden for resetting the culture and giving us this timeline!

Never happier to be wrong about something.
posted by Artw at 12:29 PM on August 6 [41 favorites]

So that all can have full context in further deep discussions of hotdish:

A hotdish or hot dish is a casserole dish that typically contains a starch, a meat, and a canned or frozen vegetable mixed with canned soup. The dish originates in the Upper Midwest region of the United States, where it remains popular, particularly in Minnesota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, and eastern Montana. Hotdish is cooked in a single baking dish, and served hot (per its name). It commonly appears at communal gatherings such as family reunions, potlucks, and church suppers. A classic example known as "tater tot hotdish" is made with ground beef, topped with tater tots, and flavored with thick, condensed cream of mushroom soup sauce.

-- Wikipedia
posted by brook horse at 12:30 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

There used to be a pizza bar in Seattle with a Minnesota theme, that had a hot dish section of the menu.
posted by funkaspuck at 12:30 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

What is hot dish?

I don't really know but I did just find the specific answer, which I'm seriously considering making.
posted by advil at 12:31 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Gonna regret this but…

What is hot dish?

Hotdish for the uninitiated
posted by nathan_teske at 7:23 AM on August 6 [9 favorites −] [⚑]

posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:31 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I love maps and studied geography in college. Now thanks to this thread, I learn that Walz was a geography teacher for 20 years. I didn't think I could like the guy any more than I already do until I found this out. Yay maps and yay Walz!!
posted by jabo at 12:33 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Just want to thank Joe Biden for resetting the culture and giving us this timeline!

Crazy to imagine the way the race looked just two and a half weeks ago.
posted by Gadarene at 12:35 PM on August 6 [29 favorites]

If you feel the need to pull your children and pets close, it’s the bad kind of weird.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:35 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

But how is Al Yankovic gonna rebrand?
posted by whuppy at 12:40 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Minneapolis remained a center of Trotskyist activity

Can't decide whether to go with "some things never change" or "sometimes the old ways are best."
posted by nickmark at 12:41 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

My only concern about this pick is that people are going to try and make hot dish a thing. I had Minnesotan parents and got enough of it as a child, thank you very much. It's cooking using only highly processed ingredients.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll

Name checks out.
posted by taz at 12:42 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Al Yankovic is Chaotic Good Weird
posted by djseafood at 12:42 PM on August 6 [36 favorites]

NYT: Donald J. Trump will do an interview on Monday night with Elon Musk, the former president said on his social media site, Truth Social. Trump, who has been trying to put himself back into the spotlight during Vice President Kamala Harris’s rise as the Democratic nominee, has frequently boasted about how Musk, a one-time skeptic of Trump who owns the influential X platform, is supporting his campaign.

Elon Musk has jumped the shark.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:43 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

But how is Al Yankovic gonna rebrand?

How about Cool Al Yankovic, because that guy is a total mensch!
posted by loquacious at 12:43 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

The DFL had real pressure from the hard left back in the 1920s, too: one of my forebears was an ardent Communist farmer, and up north in the mines they were super radical.

Would you like a book about the 1916 Iron Range miners' strike? The Flames of Discontent, Kaunonen, UMN Press. That sounds like a Finnish name to me, and you know who all those radicals were? Finns. You can't tell Finns anything, in my experience.

Here are some other sources.

There's still some vestiges of that spirit in the Iron Range, a few old ghosts here and there. See, it's stuff like this that led me to move to the great state of Minnesota. There's so much here that is good, often suppressed by a tide of bigotry and greed, but still real.

This all does bring back my youth, when I felt so starry-eyed about this state.
posted by Frowner at 12:43 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Imagine it being 2024 and thinking Elon Musk has JUST jumped the shark, which I always took to mean, "ridiculous." Uhhhhh
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:45 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

I'm finding myself looking forward to watching the DNC in a couple of weeks, which are words I didn't imagine saying three months ago. Its gonna be a heck of a show.
posted by anastasiav at 12:47 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

wenestvedt, MeMail me for a download link.
posted by pollytropos at 12:48 PM on August 6

I don’t know if Walz is a decent person; I do know that he appears to have had opposition to the Iraq War and specifically made the choice not to deploy to it, thus having made some moral choices I respect. I don’t think it’s possible to exist for a single day as a beginning prosecutor without making terrible moral compromises, and a quick peek at Westlaw reveals that Kamala Harris’ name is on a number of filings and cases that look no different than any other, and that her subsequent motions reveal the impact of someone who made moral compromises. It’s not all “she took on sex predators and big corporations.”

Kamala Harris, in her own words, from her own recent filings as AG:
“Officer Mitchell did not cause the suicide.” (About a case where a welfare check was called on a suicidal man, asking he be taken to a hospital, and Officer Mitchell, responding to the scene, ran his warrants and then arrested him; he committed suicide in jail three days later.” (2016)

“Prison regulations do not require warning shots or non-lethal options before the use of lethal force…wide discretion must be given to officers” (on her defense of a correctional officer who shot an unarmed inmate dead because he believed there was a riot) (2016)

“Giunta’s subjective belief she was not safe does not support an adverse employment action.” (On a case where a woman who reported a man who said he would bring a gun to work and shoot people, and was subsequently harassed by him for several months, and forced to accept a transfer, complained of adverse employment action) Kamala Harris referred in the motion to that man leaving flowers on the woman’s car as “at most, immature and obnoxious. However, it is not threatening.”
posted by corb at 12:49 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Here's a good rundown on Walz and China.

When Biden dropped out and Harris stepped in, I felt like there was an actual chance to win in November. All the organizing and energy of the past two weeks has helped me maintain and expand that feeling. With the Walz pick, I think there's more than just a chance of winning- it seems increasingly likely as long as we keep up the organizing momentum.
posted by heteronym at 12:49 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Donald J. Trump will do an interview on Monday night with Elon Musk

This is actually very exciting for me because they both suffer from most important loud man in the room disease and I'll need some kind of competition to watch once the Olympics are over.
posted by phunniemee at 12:51 PM on August 6 [34 favorites]

"Both children were conceived through IVF and fertility treatments: “There’s a reason we named [our daughter] Hope.”

"Oh, now that gets me in the Dad feels.

This good dad energy is making me miss my Dad something fierce today. I recognize that energy, and haven't felt it since my old man passed. I am not accustomed to politics encouraging these kinds of feels.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:51 PM on August 6 [21 favorites]

For the first time in a long time, I feel like we're about to live through history--in a good way.
posted by meese at 12:51 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Musk interviewing Trump? Wow, that's going to be...so normal. Just the most normal. Super normal and not at all the weirdest and cringiest thing any of us have ever seen.

Seriously though, I'm shuddering with disgust just thinking about it. I presume the usual MAGA suspects will think it's pure genius no matter what, but surely it will come off as deeply repellent and profoundly weird [derogatory] to everyone else. I can't imagine either of these two people being normal for two minutes at a stretch, much less being normal together. It's immediately going to go to buguck cuckoopants conspiracy land.
posted by yasaman at 12:53 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

I don’t think it’s possible to exist for a single day as a beginning prosecutor without making terrible moral compromises

Hogwash. But I understand that is your opinion.

(Also. The goal posts keep moving. First it was a career prosecutor. Now it's a beginning prosecutor even.)
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:53 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

But how is Al Yankovic gonna rebrand?

"Weird" can be context-dependent. Like, 'creepy'; there's spooky-haunted-house-creepy, and there's also 'sniffing-chairs-after-people-have-been-sitting-in-them-creepy'.

When I say "that guy is creepy" you don't think he's covered in dust, cobwebs and ancient stains and possibly contains vengeful undead spirits, do you?

...Actually, that works too I guess. Nevermind.

Maybe Al Yankovic can just rebrand himself entirely, like Prince did, and change his name to an emoji. (perhaps an accordion, or a cheese sandwich). That would solve both the "weird" issue and the fact that "AI" and "Al" looks annoyingly similar.
posted by The otter lady at 12:55 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

funkaspunk would that have been Zayda Buddy's down in Ballard? Ate lunch every day there as I worked right around the block.

Then they got rid of slices, and then they closed abruptly. Man do I miss Minnesota pizza cut into squares...
posted by Windopaene at 12:56 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Weird Al has actually already been upset about the headlines with "AI" because without the periods it looks like "AL!"
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:56 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Oh, now that gets me in the Dad feels.

If you want to tear up a bit, listen to this radio spot (titled Hope) from when he ran for Congress in 2006 (Twitter link, sorry) Extremely convincing case for healthcare as a human right.
posted by coffeecat at 12:57 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

I'll need some kind of competition to watch once the Olympics are over.

High change of someone tripping over their dick again.
posted by Artw at 12:59 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

A leftist case for voting in 2024:

America is a death machine. Turning it off or dismantling it are not things that can be done by voting. The choice on the 2024 ballot is whether the death machine keeps chugging along, or if it gets kicked into high gear on full throttle with a nitro boost.

Unless we think that a Trump dictatorship presents a clear path to imminent revolution (something I haven’t heard many leftists saying), then we should not spend excess lives by cranking up the death machine further.

As I’ve seen on another post, vote isn’t a valentine, it’s a chess move.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:00 PM on August 6 [27 favorites]

Maybe Al Yankovic can just rebrand himself entirely, like Prince did

The Artist Formerly Known As 'Weird'
posted by mazola at 1:00 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

But how is Al Yankovic gonna rebrand?

Uhm, didn't you see his blurb on the back of the new Gravity Falls book?

"I thought I liked things that were weird, but I was wrong. This book was too weird for me. I feel nauseous just thinking about the horrifying psychosis contained within. I'm legally changing my name to ‘Normal Al' now and pushing all my Hawaiian shirts out to sea on a barge. Avoid this book at all costs!!" —"Weird Al" Yankovic

posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:01 PM on August 6 [21 favorites]

but surely it will come off as deeply repellent and profoundly weird [derogatory] to everyone else.

It's going to be a viscuous hate-fest towards trans people. Check in with your friends and beloveds that day.
posted by greenland at 1:02 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Elon Musk has jumped the shark

TFG was driving the boat. It had a tremendously powerful battery, if I recall correctly.
posted by flabdablet at 1:03 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

The goal posts keep moving. First it was a career prosecutor. Now it's a beginning prosecutor even.

Beginning prosecutors have less prosecutorial discretion; they have to essentially do what they are told to do by higher up prosecutors even if it offends their very soul. I have a lot of sympathy for them; I know a lot of people who go in thinking they will change the system from the inside. This is why I am so vocal about what a meat grinder it is and about the moral compromises they will have to make, because I don’t like seeing good people get thrown into that system. Career prosecutors have more discretion and power, but choose not to use it; I view them as more responsible for their sins. Even the so-called “progressive prosecutors.” I had a long conversation with Larry Krasner, he was trying to recruit public defenders to join him instead. But he wasn’t willing to use his discretion in more blanket ways, and like many other “progressive” prosecutors, he’s not willing to engage in diversion for higher level crimes even when he’s aware poverty, substance use or mental health issues are the primary drivers.
posted by corb at 1:03 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

He accepted a temporary teaching position at the Native American Reservation in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. It was this experience that convinced Tim to follow his father’s lead and become a teacher.

Volunteering to serve Pine Ridge? That's metal. I grew up in Rapid City and saw with my own eyes confirmation that Reservations are mostly the worst land available.
posted by achrise at 1:06 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

coffeecat: If you want to tear up a bit, listen to this radio spot...

Jesus Christ! I'm not supposed to tear up over a 20-year old radio spot.

That story is "For sale: baby shoes, never worn"-grade stuff.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:09 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Dollars to donuts that interview is wholly or partially AI-enhanced. (not Al-enhanced)
posted by credulous at 1:09 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

This is in no way the most important thing right now, but I’m personally way too traumatized by “weird” not to flinch at its application. Even when the subtext of the move — the reclamation of “normal” as belonging to the biracial and the queer-friendly — is necessary and overdue. Even when the time of the move is a pitch-perfect match to the desires of people in 2024 to turn toward fun and not just away from horror. There’s still this little voice in my head that says “if they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you.”
posted by eirias at 1:09 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

; I know a lot of people who go in thinking they will change the system from the inside.

And Harris did a lot of that, as noted above, and in previous threads. It's ok, you don't have to agree.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:10 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

I don’t think it’s possible to exist for a single day as a beginning prosecutor without making terrible moral compromises

Is this possible for anyone living in our society? Like, sure, the criminal justice system is awful, and it must be hard or impossible to take meaningful action without compromise or hypocrisy. But so is pretty much every other occupation in our system. So is just eating and breathing in our system. Posting to Metafilter is a moral compromise, at least for me, given that the computer I'm using likely contains parts made by child and/or forced labor and contains parts made of rare metals mined by child and/or forced labor, and the internet is now the largest producer of greenhouse gasses, surpassing even the airline industry, and I know I only have the free time and education to do that posting because I'm living in and have benefitted from an economy that requires violence to maintain, and which is still coasting on the momentum made possible by centuries of colonialism and slavery.

My stepmom used to say 'the whole world is dirty; pick a corner and start cleaning.' Harris seems to have, for a time, picked a corner in the justice system, and she seems to have tried to clean, with varying degrees of success and a couple of choices I, from the outside, find disappointing. But if merely participating in the system means compromise, what other option is there? Cede the entire justice system to the jerks?
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:11 PM on August 6 [70 favorites]

He's just gonna walk into the debate in a Springsteen shirt and one of those goofy camo baseball caps he wears.

Piglet under his arm.

And two bottles of Diet Mtn Dew; offering them to JD saying "JD I shook one of these up backstage; choose wisely" Narrator: He shook both!
posted by achrise at 1:13 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Kamala Harris and Biden have always seemed to have a great relationship. Every photo of them together shows them beaming, laughing, and clearly enjoying each other's company. They've both said publicly that they love each other.

Mike Pence was a spineless toady who would put his water bottle on the floor if Trump did, and Trump nearly got Mike hanged. Pence has since mustered up enough integrity to condemn Trump and say he's not voting for him in this election.

On his personal Twitter account, Walz promised Harris she would have his full support on July 22nd, has been cheerleading for her since, and both of them seem excited about working together.

J.D. Vance has said of TFG, "I'm a never Trump guy", "never liked him", "terrible candidate", "idiot if you voted for him", "might be America's Hitler", "might be a cynical asshole", "cultural heroin", "noxious", and "reprehensible", and then kissed orange ass to get the VP slot. Trump claims no one cares about who the VP is, and is reported to already be experiencing buyer's remorse over his choice.

If this were a script, anyone assessing it would say the contrasts between the two camps are too cartoonishly overdrawn to be at all believable, and that they should be toned way the hell down.
posted by orange swan at 1:15 PM on August 6 [33 favorites]

Obviously its relevant to the people that were affected by her decisions, and I would of course prefer someone who is this close to the presidency that never compromised their firmly left wing moral positions (something I, a lay person, does), but, frankly, why does it matter that much? Shes going to do everything she can to win and be re-elected (like she did when she was prosecutor) and the incentives facing her are, I think, pushing policy to the left.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:15 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

This timeline is good.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 1:16 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

achrise: Volunteering to serve Pine Ridge? That's metal.

My daughter led a college service trip out there last winter, and I had to brace her up ahead of time: conditions on Pine Ridge Reservation are just shockingly cruel.

Here's a link to a person who collects donations for folks living there, and who I have given through in the past: http://agaishanlife.com/agsl-giving/ If you're feeling generous, consider reaching out to them.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:17 PM on August 6 [19 favorites]

It's going to be a viscuous hate-fest towards trans people. Check in with your friends and beloveds that day.

Vivian may have some commentary on that. Good kid.
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Crazy to imagine the way the race looked just two and a half weeks ago.

You mean when the democrats were selling a story that Biden was the only way to win and to critique him was basically an endorsement of Trump?
posted by iamck at 1:20 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

That’s more of a six weeks ago.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Speaking as a weird person, I've been shamed for it by people a lot of my life. Usually by people like this who think they are the majority and that I'm weird. I'm trying to point out that these jerks are, shall we say, uncomfortably weird. Nastily weird. Creepy weird. "Can't stop talking about Hannibal Lecter like he's a real live person" is ESPECIALLY WEIRD. Like "what is wrong with you that you don't realize it was fiction?!?" weird.

It's nice to see the people who think they are normal and are trying to eliminate Team Weird (of which I am firmly a member) being identified as weird...in the unpleasant, non-fun way. Because THEY HATE IT SO MUCH!!!!

In other news, I'm not into cooking whatsoever, I try to stick to "five ingredients at max" things, and I'm seriously considering trying to make up my own hotdish recipe. Ground meat + corn + potato something + cream of mushroom soup can't be THAT hard, right?!, something with like, few ingredients and me not having to buy spices and things I'll never use again. Is that reasonable? Does that exist? Because those senator hotdish recipes look good, but I am not gonna go out and buy, I dunno, chives or something that I'll never touch again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:23 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

When Biden was the candidate, and there seemed to be no reason to believe that he would not be, then yes, I argued that criticism of him was effectively support for Trump.

After the debate, and when things began to clearly change, I argued otherwise.
posted by argybarg at 1:23 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

I accidentally posted this link in the older Harris thread, but I think this is so remarkable that it deserves a wider audience. Back in 1993, as a high school geography teacher in Alliance, Nebraska, Walz taught a class on genocide. His students learned about historical genocides, of course, and their final project was to identify what was the likeliest place in the world for the next genocide. Here’s how Samuel G. Freedman wrote about it in 2008 for the New York Times:

When the students finished with the past, Mr. Walz gave a final exam of sorts. He listed about a dozen current nations — Yugoslavia, Congo, some former Soviet republics among them — and asked the class as a whole to decide which was at the greatest risk of sliding into genocide.

Their answer was: Rwanda. The evidence was the ethnic divide between Hutus and Tutsis, the favoritism toward Tutsis shown by the Belgian colonial regime, and the previous outbreaks of tribal violence. Mr. Walz awarded high marks.

Then summer arrived and school let out. The students did what teenagers did in Alliance over the summer. They water-skied at the reservoir, swam in the Bridgeport sand pits and mostly “cruised the Butte,” endlessly driving up and down Box Butte Avenue.

THE next April, in 1994, Mr. Walz heard news reports of a plane carrying the Rwandan president, Juvenal Habyarimana, being shot down. He told himself at the time, “This is not going to end up good.”

It’s worth your time to read the whole story in the Times [archive link].
posted by Kattullus at 1:24 PM on August 6 [35 favorites]

Nick Offerman Sings GOP Song in Comics for Kamala Zoom Call [YouTube]

Nick Offerman joined the Comics for Kamala call Monday night to raise more than $530,000.
posted by Glinn at 1:32 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

From the Guardian, on the phone, so no link sorry. On Instagram Live, progressive representative Alexandra Ocasio Cortez said that Walz has helped unify Democrats.

“It’s really kind of nuts,” she said. “I am trying to think about the last time Senator Manchin and I, respectfully, were on the same side of an issue.”

On X she said, “Dems in disconcerting levels of array” which is not wrong.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:33 PM on August 6 [52 favorites]

Dems in *Coherence* (Dark Brandon laser eyes for all)
posted by credulous at 1:35 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

I'm finding my apprehension about being optimistic here in profound conflict with my deep, deep desire to see J.D. Vance thoroughly beaten and publicly humiliated. It's a conundrum.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:36 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Harris and Walz are going to disappoint me because NOBODY CAN LIVE UP TO THE ECSTATIC EXPECTATIONS I'M FEELING.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:39 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

As much as I want to see Walz charm the whole country into coming out to the rec center potluck fundraiser while Vance tries and utterly fails to act like a human being, I think even the Trump campaign can see how badly that's going to go and is not going to allow a Veep debate to happen.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:39 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Couldn't help it. Made a campaign sign for Orange Goblin/Couch Fucker. Also made a Radiohead variant.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:42 PM on August 6 [61 favorites]

Prepare to go viral, DirtyOldTown, those are great!
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:44 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I don’t think it’s possible to exist for a single day as a beginning prosecutor without making terrible moral compromises

Again, the same is true of medicine and any government position with significant authority. I've read the chart notes for a lot of fucking doctors, and every one of them has made decisions I disagree with morally. I could decide that everyone one of them is a bad person, or I could decide that many good people enter fields that require them to make terrible moral compromises, that they don't always make the right choice, and that I have to actually do the work of examining and deciding how I want to balance the good versus the bad instead of taking the easy "if you're in the field you're bad" approach.

I realize that you are much more familiar with your field and its adjacent roles, but that does not make it special. We have specific reasons why we believe policing, over and above other fields, is impossible to change from the inside. But the fact of the matter is Harris did demonstrably affect change in the criminal justice system (meanwhile we have no evidence Walz did the same for the military, which I would consider MUCH less capable of being changed from the inside), so the idea that the system can't be changed from the inside is false. Is it a slim hope? Yeah, definitely. But it's not impossible and many people make the decision to stay in fields that require moral compromise because they believe the good they can do is worth it. Like doctors.

I know a lot of people who go in thinking they will change the system from the inside. This is why I am so vocal about what a meat grinder it is and about the moral compromises they will have to make, because I don’t like seeing good people get thrown into that system.

This is really ignoring the agency and reasons people enter the system. Those of us who choose to try and change the system from the inside are often very, very aware that it is a meat grinder and that we will have to make constant moral compromises. We choose to do so anyway because we believe in change more than keeping ourselves morally pure. It is awful and yes, I did give up on it myself because I couldn't take the 24/7 panic attacks. That does not mean the people who keep going are bad people. They can be, but "person in a field that requires moral compromise compromised their morals while also working on changing the system so others wouldn't have to" is not a gotcha. It's the extent, frequency, and balance of everything else she did that matters to her overall character.

But if you want to discount everyone who is in a morally compromised field, feel free. Every doctor, every soldier, everyone in government, they're all bad people regardless of the good they've done because of the morally compromised choices they made in a system that requires it. I genuinely believe that's a reasonable position for people to take; I don't hold it myself but I understand it. But if you don't believe that, then, again: prosecutors aren't special. Neither are psychiatrists, though lord knows in my moments I have ranted about how they are uniquely the worst people on the planet. It's easy to feel like that when you see in detail the abuse the system inflicts every day, and it's also easy to be hopeless about any efforts to change it from the inside. But particularly when there is direct evidence change was made, dismissing it by pointing out that it's a morally compromised field is not helpful to anyone and does not advance the prison abolition movement. Because if you single out only this field as uniquely bad and irredeemable despite evidence that change can in fact be made from within the system (which, again, is different from policing where we have evidence that this is impossible in its current state), then you are giving a pass to every other form of state control. You can't say prosecutors are always inherently bad but the people writing the laws they enforce are not.

If you are an abolitionist, then state control is immoral. Either everyone who enacts state control is a bad person (a position some take), or some people work within immoral systems for moral reasons and this makes them more complicated people to label as "good" or "bad." Especially when it seems that those individuals were, in fact, able to pursue their moral values and enact change.
posted by brook horse at 1:45 PM on August 6 [42 favorites]

If I saw one of DirtyOldTown's lawn signs I ligitimately wouldn't know who the owner supported.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:46 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Politicians will ALWAYS disappoint you. The world will always wreck you. And then you'll die at the end. We are all tainted by the world we live in. I own a yarn shop, which sounds innocent, but also makes me (at least in theory and somewhat, inevitably, in practice) a dirty stinking Capitalist.

But we can still dance in this broken world. We can love each other and lift each other up. We can be excited to get on the bus, even an imperfect bus, because it's better than being left behind by ourselves bemoaning that things are too imperfect to agree to.

You can fall in love with this ticket if you want, you can fall in love with life. You'll probably get your heart broken over one or the other eventually. I keep trying to protect my own heart from a world that wants to kill us all (and it succeeds!), but I somehow keep falling for it. Am I the dumb one?
posted by rikschell at 1:46 PM on August 6 [30 favorites]

> But how is Al Yankovic gonna rebrand?

> How about Cool Al Yankovic, because that guy is a total mensch!

I think Mr Yankovic would be uncomfortable with the appellation "cool." So how about Frood Al Yankovic?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 1:46 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Oh god if we only still had Chris Farley to play Walz on SNL...
posted by gottabefunky at 1:46 PM on August 6 [23 favorites]

If Vance doesn't debate, and the Trump debate doesn't happen either, then that's just pure, unalloyed weakness, right? I don't see them being able to spin that as anything other then them being whiny cowards, because Harris and Walz are going to be right there smiling, and, yes, laughing, while bringing it up constantly. Now with a bonus side of Walz telling some wholesome and folksy football related story, like "well now, I coached football for twenty years and I'll tell you, no matter how worried my boys were, they always got on that field! what a shame that my opponent won't meet me on the field and has given up already!"
posted by yasaman at 1:48 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

There's not all that much of value in this NYTimes JD Vance Launches Trump Campaign’s First Volleys at Harris-Walz Ticket mini-article, but it's funny to see it reporting that

[d]uring the session with reporters, Mr. Vance bemoaned what he called a “little switcheroo” from President Biden to Ms. Harris and cast doubt on whether Mr. Walz would remain Ms. Harris’s running mate.

Oh, wow. Nice try, JD. Hang in there, buddy.
posted by nobody at 1:48 PM on August 6 [22 favorites]

Livestream: Kamala Harris holds first rally with VP pick Tim Walz

(The rally is happening now, but they're not expected to speak until around 5:30 Eastern)
posted by Rhaomi at 1:50 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

A good video supercut (3 min.) of Walz in press appearances over the past couple of weeks.
posted by darkstar at 1:50 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

NYT: What goes on the Harris-Walz bumper sticker?
Cottle “The future doesn’t have to be dark and weird.”
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:52 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

I hope that Harris and Walz repeatedly taunt Trump and Vance for being cowards for refusing to debate. If Trumpy and Lumpy take the bait and debate, Harris and Walz will eviscerate them. If they don't, Harris and Walz can just keep calling them cowards all the way to the ballot box. It's a win-win.
posted by orange swan at 1:52 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Some people here seem to desperately need a link to a pdf of the Campell's Soup Cookbook.
posted by atbash at 1:52 PM on August 6 [18 favorites]

Walz is a million times more authentic and genuine than Vance is. No contest.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:55 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

I’m personally way too traumatized by “weird” not to flinch at its application

I hear you, I really do. But our hesitation to call out TFG/Vance-style weirdness is what led to decades of tolerance of predators in geek spaces. We owe it to the next generation of teen nerds at conventions, to be able to say "Of course we're all weird, but that guy...he's weird."
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:03 PM on August 6 [60 favorites]

> In other news, I'm not into cooking whatsoever, I try to stick to "five ingredients at max" things, and I'm seriously considering trying to make up my own hotdish recipe.

If someone starts a new hotdish thread in commemoration of the Harris/Walz ticket, I'll post my hotdish-adjacent cheesy potatoes recipe.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:04 PM on August 6 [18 favorites]

It's okay to be proud of being weird while using it as a cudgel against those who can't stand the thought of being accused of being weird. Or you can always go with "those people are just NOT RIGHT," which works on soooo many levels.
posted by rikschell at 2:07 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

I don't see them being able to spin that as anything other then them being whiny cowards

well you're right though Trump will refuse to debate as as part of the Mic T.V. narrative that there's some sort of unconstitutional handoff of the presidency.

Republicans don't want to be intellectually pummeled with the truth in person let alone a debate.
posted by clavdivs at 2:08 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

“The future doesn’t have to be dark and weird.”

Oh my god, this. It has just felt like the last nine years (counting the last year of Obama's term) haven't been just plain old American shitty, they've been this accelerating, unstoppable downward race toward a deathcamp future for no reason except many Americans being really fucking stupid. Obviously we have, as we've always had, far right grifters and thugs, but the whole huge percentage of the electorate being like "let's murder our fellow Americans by throwing them from helicopers! Immigrants - let them drown on barbed wire! Money - let's give it all to politicians' buddies! Healthcare - fuck that noise, let babies die of measles, we don't care!" has just been so unremittingly horrible. These loud, horrible people being amplified by the greedy click-bait mad media. Frankly, growing up in the eighties I knew that a lot of my fellow Americans were far right assholes, but the move to "far right assholes who don't just want to be fratty and own a large boat but who want to actively murder me" has been really difficult.

Things have been so dark, for real. Most big American problems are at least semi-solvable if we act with generosity and compassion - maybe we can't really fix things without revolutionary change, but we can make things at least meaningfully better. Seeing people just race along making things worse and crueler for fun has been so, so hard. Facing that about my fellow Americans has been so extremely grim.

I am really ready to face a bunch of Americans who at least agree that, eg, kids shouldn't go to school hungry, women should be able to decide about birth control for themselves, people should be able to read the books they want to read, etc. I'm tired of all the dumbshit stuff - we do so much dumbshit stuff! Like, if someone is in the US without papers but they've been working and basically law abiding for years, why not just....let them be a citizen? They've demonstrated that they can be one! We need people like that! Why not just give people fucking SNAP? It puts money in businesses' pockets! Why not just, if you don't like a book or you don't want to see a drag show, stay home? Disapprove with likeminded friends! I don't go to your fucking evangelical shopping mall church and get in the way there! Just, like, be a person!
posted by Frowner at 2:09 PM on August 6 [115 favorites]

And the weather! The weather is getting bad weird, why can't we figure out something about that? Do we want bad weird weather for our kids until there's a massive famine and they all die? We all see the weather getting worse!
posted by Frowner at 2:11 PM on August 6 [33 favorites]

Ground meat + corn + potato something + cream of mushroom soup can't be THAT hard, right?!, something with like, few ingredients and me not having to buy spices and things I'll never use again. Is that reasonable? Does that exist? Because those senator hotdish recipes look good, but I am not gonna go out and buy, I dunno, chives or something that I'll never touch again.

If your hot dish recipe requires spices, you are doing it wrong; the only seasonings are salt and pepper (other spices are fine, but extremely, extremely optional). Hot dish is a very forgiving and flexible category of food designed to be made with whatever you have on hand. It was created by Scandinavian / German immigrants who needed to feed their large families sufficient carbohydrates and calories to fuel farm work in -20 F weather, back in the days where Midwestern grocery stores sold virtually no fresh green produce between the months of November and March. Just last week I ate a four-ingredient hot dish that was tater tots, cheese, ground beef, and cream of mushroom, which is a bit sparse but my father-in-law doesn't like onions or corn. My grandma raised her four sons on a weeknight hot dish that was ground beef, macaroni noodles, canned green beans (drained), and a packet of powdered gravy mix; I ate that stuff at least once every 10 days. So go ahead and give it a try, if it's not to your liking, the correct Minnesotan response is to either go "hm, that's different" and feed it to the dog, or you quietly abandon it at the potluck in a disposable serving container.
posted by castlebravo at 2:13 PM on August 6 [41 favorites]

Harris Walz Rally Stream for anyone cable-less.
posted by nathan_teske at 2:13 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Apparently the new "attack" against Walz is that...he passed a law requiring schools to have menstruation products available for students.

They really fucking hate women, don't they?
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:16 PM on August 6 [81 favorites]

I am just relieved Shapiro is out. It leaves some chance of the US pulling back from full bore support for genocide.

Walz seems by far the most decent human being currently in the running for executive office. That's obviously not an impression based on first hand knowledge. But either he seems to have done the decent thing several times when he didn't have to, or he has an amazing PR team. Either one helps keep the Republicans out of the White House, so I am onboard either way. I don't know how much impact personal decency can have on the actual management of the Beast that is the US economy and war machine, but it will definitely be a better influence than whatever Trump and Vance would bring.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:17 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

(Hotdish doesn't necessarily have to be all canned soup and frozen vegetables. There are tons of recipes for scratch green bean casserole (vegan versions).)
posted by box at 2:17 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

MetaFilter: "hm, that's different."
posted by wenestvedt at 2:19 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

MetaFilter: "I wouldn't want you to think I'm not happy"
posted by nathan_teske at 2:21 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Super normal stuff happening in GOP spam banking today.
posted by phunniemee at 2:23 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

You mean when the democrats were selling a story that Biden was the only way to win and to critique him was basically an endorsement of Trump?

I — and a lot of people, including in this thread — have said how happy we are to have been wrong on that point.

But I also feel like we’ve been incredibly fortunate that things have (so far) turned out so well, and I honestly remain a bit mystified. If nothing else, I feel like Harris has been operating on a level of political savvy that was not at all hinted at by her 2020 campaign.

I’m not complaining at all, I just don’t see how any of this was really predictable a month ago.
posted by bjrubble at 2:24 PM on August 6 [40 favorites]

The music playing at the Harris rally while we wait for the candidates to come on stage is Outkast's "Hey Ya."
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 2:25 PM on August 6 [29 favorites]

I’m not complaining at all, I just don’t see how any of this was really predictable a month ago.

After all this, I'm sure we could turn Will Rogers into a clean renewable energy source.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:25 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Super normal stuff happening in GOP spam banking today.
posted by phunniemee at 5:23 PM on August 6 [+] [⚑]

Oof. Misread that as "sperm" and thought...well, I clicked.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 2:26 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

I was absolutely of the opinion that casting Biden aside would mean doom doom doom!

I am very, very happy to have been wrong. That said, I think that the Dems coalescing quickly around Harris and allowing her latitude to run a campaign that seems of this century was a wild outcome and hard to see coming.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:26 PM on August 6 [51 favorites]

Shapiro is leading with how hard he works and how dedicated he is to Pennsylvania, a habit that apparently alienated the Harris team.
posted by argybarg at 2:29 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Separate thread for hotdish talk and recipes.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:30 PM on August 6 [30 favorites]

From phunniemee's link: TIM WALZ WILL UNLEASH HELL ON EARTH

If hell on earth includes hot dish, petting piglets, free turkeys, and carnival rides, I'm in.
posted by cmyk at 2:32 PM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Just a couple of things I've been thinking about as I read through this:

1) Love Walz, so happy he's on the ticket.

2) Elon musk jumping the shark is not news; back then, it was still being called a megalodon.

3) Just bought 3 "Childless Cat Ladies for Kamala" t-shirts for me and the household.

4) Regarding professions and moral damage - fresh out of college, I took a job with an insurance firm as a help desk analyst. I kept that job for about 3 months, which is how long it took me to realize I was being trained to hate people for money.

My next job was entry-level Marketing. I put together powerpoints for ad pitches. Quit that job the day I was asked to demonstrate to moms that buying Oreos would make their kids drink more healthy, fresh milk.

Now I work in health insurance; I've been doing this job for 15 years. I help nurses do business things, because they're trained to do nurse things instead.

Insurance is one of the most evil professions a person could have, generally speaking; but I specifically work in non-profit insurance provided to traditionally under-served populations at no cost. I spend 95% of my work day helping people help OTHER people. (The other 5% of my day I spend deleting emails I never should have been included in.) I'm wildly grateful for the opportunity to work where I can do good for a living wage - but that doesn't mean I can't respect the people who stay in my previous two jobs. They're jobs, and people need to eat.

I guess my point is - if you're employed in America, you're taking moral damage in some way. Paying the rent costs both money and soul. There's nuance to be had at the fringes of every profession - some people are trying to do good, even in bad systems, alongside the people doing terrible things in the same systems because they are terrible people. I don't love gray areas - I tend to be a little binary in my thinking most of the time - but I can appreciate someone who tries to do good when they can, even when a lot of the time they can't.

5) Does Green Bean Casserole count as hotdish? I grew up on that stuff at every holiday. Drained can of green beans, layered with Cream of Mushroom soup, layered with canned fried onions. Tastes like childhood. But there's no meat in it - is that disqualifying?
posted by invincible summer at 2:33 PM on August 6 [37 favorites]

i love shapiro dunking on vance in philly the day vance had a rally in philly.
posted by Clowder of bats at 2:34 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

So that's funny about Walz; I teach Born a Crime in the exact same way (I mean, we do a similar project for that part of the course)!

Re: the weird thing (again--and I'm all for it) I have some thoughts*.

Isn't it weird that they don't want kids to eat?
Isn't it weird that they want to take away the freedom of choice from women?
Isn't it weird that they have to deny fucking couches?
Isn't it weird that they are obsessed with OPP and how OP use their OPP?
Isn't it weird that they are obsessed with bathrooms?
Isn't it weird that they don't want IVF but want people with more kids to have more votes**?
Isn't it weird about the rolex and the cybertruck?
Isn't it weird about being interviewed by Musk?
Isn't it weird that they don't want girls/women to have menstrual products?
Isn't it weird that they think the end of the world is coming***?

Isn't it just weird?

*Maybe in a taking it back kind of way? Take back the good kind of weird?
**Not in the cognitive dissonance kind of way, but in the don't they just want more kids kind of way?
***As if there aren't enough people that will profit from either victory that they would let the world end. But this apocalyptic shit is weird
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:34 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Isn't it weird that they don't want IVF but want people with more kids to have more votes**?

**Not in the cognitive dissonance kind of way, but in the don't they just want more kids kind of way?

I think the throughline is not wanting women to have options when it comes to having kids.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:37 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

Yeah, their take is that men should have the options and women should have the kids.
posted by cmyk at 2:41 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

You can't say prosecutors are always inherently bad but the people writing the laws they enforce are not.

One of the reasons I have special frustrations with prosecutors is because they see the impacts of their decisions and continue doing what they are doing: I do not, in fact, fail to condemn the people who continue writing more and more laws making minor matters into felonies, I just give them the grace of assuming they know not what they do. I think following the track of creating these harms as a track towards political office deeply bothers me; you may disagree.

But it’s okay to disagree, and this election a number of us will disagree. I don’t expect to convince you of my opinions on prosecutors, but what I do ask is that you not dismiss those of us who have similar positions as fundamentally unserious or intellectually lazy just because Kamala Harris has created a pre-packaged narrative about why she went into prosecution that resonates with some. It doesn’t convince all of us; that has to be okay. Just as I can’t convince you, you are never going to convince me. I see too much of how the prosecution sausage is made to buy it.

And all the same, I still think it would be better if the cop wins this year. That’s a big fucking deal; that’s a win. I don’t know why that’s not enough of a win for you and others. I am begging you, with tears in my eyes; take the win. Let’s agree to disagree on Harris, so I don’t feel the need to dig through decades of her prosecutorial actions and pull up every shitty thing she’s ever said just to justify my feelings of unease, which will then in turn make me feel less good about voting for her. Take the win; let some of us vote for her with reservations. Let that be enough.
posted by corb at 2:41 PM on August 6 [43 favorites]

They're up!!!! About to speak!!!
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:57 PM on August 6

think the throughline is not wanting women to have options when it comes to having kids.

Yeah, their take is that men should have the options and women should have the kids.

This makes sense. I did give those caveats, but don't you think it's weird?
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:58 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

corb, I’m definitely not going to agree with everything you say, but given your past experiences I’m definitely going to understand and respect it. You’ve always been an honest debater around here even when your takes haven't been popular. I do, though, agree with what seems to be the lens you’re trying to persuade people through right now, which is basically harm reduction (you can feel free to correct me if I’ve got that wrong.) I’ve long had to view voting through that approach. Right now I do feel like we have a strong ticket and we might be able to get past just harm reduction and into getting some things done, but that waits to be seen.
posted by azpenguin at 2:58 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

They just came on stage (live broadcast on TikTok)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:00 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Snowishberlin: It is weird, yes! (And tbh I still don't understand what the problem with IVF is supposed to be. Not just "why do they think it'd be a successful strategy to go after it?" but even just "why would anyone be opposed to this?")
posted by Navelgazer at 3:02 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

If Walz was any happier to be up there on stage I think he would burst.
posted by cmyk at 3:05 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

The crowd is chanting “lock him up, lock him up!”
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:05 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

He looks like he might cry.
posted by lostburner at 3:06 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

He looks like he might cry.

Makes two of us.
posted by terrapin at 3:08 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

Three
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 3:08 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Walz wears his heart on his sleeve and I love it
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:08 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

The crowd is chanting “lock him up, lock him up!”

Yeah. It's funny how quickly the crowds have learned Harris' stump speech over the past two weeks, and have seemingly come up with their own Rocky Horror-style call-and-response to bits of it. (To be fair, it's a very good stump speech.)
posted by Navelgazer at 3:08 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

"why would anyone be opposed to this?"

Because life begins at the moment of fertilization and IVF creates extra zygotes which are perhaps most typically destroyed. In this characterization IVF is, essentially, a mass abortion resulting in a single human life.
posted by kensington314 at 3:09 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

what the problem with IVF is supposed to be

As I understand it*, the problem is it's creating theoretically viable fertilized embryos that aren't carried to term. It's at least logically consistent with being anti abortion for reasons of fetal personhood or whatever wording they like to use for that.

*Scratch the surface of that for many people who say they're anti IVF and what it really is is just more ways to control women's bodies and to punish women for not being the right kind of woman/wife/mother/breeding stock.
posted by phunniemee at 3:10 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Ahh, that makes a twisted sort of sense. Thanks, y'all!
posted by Navelgazer at 3:10 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Couldn't help it. Made a campaign sign for Orange Goblin/Couch Fucker.

No need to denigrate the real Orange Goblin, which is a killer metal band!
posted by heteronym at 3:10 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Please America, let Tim Walz be the surrogate dad for those of us who are estranged from their right wing parents
posted by phunniemee at 3:12 PM on August 6 [38 favorites]

The otter lady:

Maybe Al Yankovic can just rebrand himself entirely, like Prince did, and change his name to an emoji. (perhaps an accordion, or a cheese sandwich).

Oh, he is way ahead in that regard.

Anyway, congratulations from across the pond on a ticket that seems not only capable of winning in November but also able to bring about real change to the USA. I have not visited the states since Trump's first win, but this might actually make me want to return.
posted by bouvin at 3:12 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

yeah the real Orange Goblin is awesome, thanks heteronym.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:12 PM on August 6

Fabulous speech from Harris introducing Walz in Philadelphia. Very high energy, amazing confidence and totally enjoying herself, as is Walz (whose grin is adorable)
posted by bluesky43 at 3:13 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

ah, harris is telling the story of walz' being faculty advisor for the gsa. he was asked to do it by an openly gay student.
posted by Clowder of bats at 3:14 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

I took a quick peek at the Twitter fever swamp to see what they had to say about Walz.

I wouldn't recommend doing that.

(It takes a lot to accuse a 24-year National Guard vet of 'stolen valor,' cowardice and desertion for retiring, to call someone who signed bills into law putting feminine products into school bathrooms and designating Minnesota a sanctuary state for trans youths seeking medical care a sexual pervert and danger to children's welfare, to insist that Walz endorsed BLM burning Minneapolis to the ground, to declare him a murderer for doing what reasonable Governors did during COVID's outbreak, to want him tried by the military for treason for enabling driver's licences for all (therefore somehow opening the door for illegals to all vote en masse in Minnesota and overthrow democracy), to accuse him of weaponizing Minnesota's justice system by prosecuting Mike Lindell, and so on, but CHUDs are UP TO THE TASK.)
posted by delfin at 3:16 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

"First ever state's championship!"

Ted Lasso vibes, anyone? In the best of all possible ways!
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:16 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

if he says "wow!" again 🥺
posted by phunniemee at 3:18 PM on August 6

This is masterful. Masterful.

Is this a Kripke joint?
posted by riverlife at 3:18 PM on August 6

Walz is just the happiest puppydog up on that stage.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:19 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

If I were him I would be bawling up there. What accolades and celebration!
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:20 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I hope this is up later for those of us nannyblocked from watching during the day. (sigh, living on the "wrong coast" time sucks for politics, except finding out at the crack of my dawn that Walz got it).

if it's not to your liking, the correct Minnesotan response is to either go "hm, that's different" and feed it to the dog, or you quietly abandon it at the potluck in a disposable serving container.

Bwahahaha, love this.

They really fucking hate women, don't they?

Yes, because to them women are weeeeeeeeeeeird in the bad way.

I was being trained to hate people for money.

AGREED.

And now I'm gonna go look at the hot dish thread.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:23 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

YES WE SHALL. COMPARE THE RESUMES.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 3:24 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

How about that sharpshooting comment…
posted by hototogisu at 3:25 PM on August 6

Or you can always go with "those people are just NOT RIGHT," which works on soooo many levels.

Ooo, I preferred “creep” (different than creepy in that it only has the bad connotations) to “weird”, but this is better.
posted by eviemath at 3:26 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Could folks live-reacting to the Harris-Walz rally please include the quotes or context you are reacting to, so that this thread remains readable into the future or at present for those of us not watching? Thanks in advance!
posted by eviemath at 3:28 PM on August 6 [25 favorites]

She just called him Coach Walz, and that feels right.
posted by meese at 3:28 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

It takes a lot to accuse a 24-year National Guard vet of 'stolen valor,' cowardice and desertion for retiring, to call someone who signed bills into law putting feminine products into school bathrooms and designating Minnesota a sanctuary state for trans youths seeking medical care a sexual pervert and danger to children's welfare, to insist that Walz endorsed BLM burning Minneapolis to the ground [...]

No one cares! Same old garbage copypasta, at this point I don't even think it does that much more to amp up the base. We've all heard it before, how they hate Black lives generally and think that's an insult, etc ad nauseum.

The thing about the far right is that they are so accustomed to their people having horrible secrets that they can't even conceive of a person, let alone a politician, who is more or less what they say they are. Walz isn't perfect at all, and I don't really think we need to have that argument here today, but he is more or less what he says he is, he believes his beliefs, he's just this guy. If he has flaws, they're at least fairly regular and straightforward flaws - he's not trying to con you into buying cryptocurrency or fake supplements or covering up how he treats women or hiding a history of ripping off contractors or stealing N95s to give to political allies or whatever.

So you get a guy who is more or less what you see is what you get, and they just don't have anything, not because Walz is sans reproche but because he's more or less honest.
posted by Frowner at 3:29 PM on August 6 [24 favorites]

NYT:The Harris campaign just said that it has raised more than $20 million since Walz joined the ticket this morning.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:30 PM on August 6 [26 favorites]

Sorry I'm not sure who mentioned above that they didnt see any NYT articled going negative on Walz (and Harris):
But there currently multiple negative articles right there - front page too. Nate Cohn (puke) spew about how Harris truly messed up by picking Walz; How Trump is going to attack Walz for being a "Bernie Sanders" liberal (oh no, gasp, but in shit pundit/NYT land thats the worst anyone can be); and an article excitedly digging up Walz's DUI from decades ago (when he admirably decided to give up alcohol).

Its like 8 hours after Harris picked him and 3 of the 5 lead stories are negative bullshit and attack pieces.

Truly the tragedy here is Harris just didnt listen to the genius politico-pundit class, much to her and the nations detriment.

The NYT and the pundit class want Trump2, their endless shitting on anyone left of Mitt Romney is evidence of that:

Just imagine a left side Aileen Cannon dismissed a case against Biden where he stole national security secrets? That would be the ONLY story over and over and over, but do you see it anymore? Trumps son in law getting a $2b bribe from KSA? Anything anymore on the nightmare of Project 2025? Anything about Dobbs wrecking countless lives ? Nope....
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:30 PM on August 6 [28 favorites]

She just called him Coach Walz, and that feels right.

Love that. My only note so far on this Harris campaign rollout is the missed opportunity to use "Not Like Us" as a theme song. Kamala's walk-on music is Beyonce, Coach Walz' walk-on music should definitely be Kendrick calling pedophiles weird.
posted by kensington314 at 3:30 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I’m sure when a transcript is made available exact quotes will be posted.
posted by hototogisu at 3:30 PM on August 6

Shouting out rural, suburban, urban, and tribal communities. Don't hear that a lot, that felt good.
posted by phunniemee at 3:30 PM on August 6 [45 favorites]

Snowishberlin: ""First ever state's championship!"

Ted Lasso vibes, anyone? In the best of all possible ways!"

fluffy battle kitten: "YES WE SHALL. COMPARE THE RESUMES."

meese: "She just called him Coach Walz, and that feels right."

COACH WALZ vs. JV VANCE
posted by Rhaomi at 3:31 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

Harris is truly on fire. What an inspiring speech.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:31 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Regardless Walz ROCKS and Harris continues to just crush it. I'm so excited compared to 2 weeks ago (let alone 6 weeks ago). These are both good people trying to do as much as possible to help people (and defeat Trumpism).
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:32 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Walz is up and he just thanked Harris (or maybe the audience) for bringing back the joy.😍
posted by bluesky43 at 3:32 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

No one cares! Same old garbage copypasta, at this point I don't even think it does that much more to amp up the base. We've all heard it before, how they hate Black lives generally and think that's an insult, etc ad nauseum.

Which is exactly the point. There is nothing that they can throw at Walz that resonates with anyone other than the Trump base who weren't even remotely going for vote for him anyway.
posted by delfin at 3:33 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Walz is a natural on stage. What a perfect choice.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:33 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

Walz has never lost an election in his entire political career.
posted by orange swan at 3:35 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

Walz has never lost an election in his entire political career.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Harris has either.

(Not sure this metric is determinative of much, but I just wanted to log a "well actually" moment for today.)
posted by kensington314 at 3:38 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

TRUTH SERVED about Trump only serving himself.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 3:38 PM on August 6

Revising my graph from two weeks ago.
posted by phunniemee at 3:39 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

"Make no mistake, violent crime was up when he was president... And that's not even counting the crimes HE committed!"

Ooh yeah.
posted by meese at 3:39 PM on August 6 [33 favorites]

“Mind your own damn business!” I love it.

I am so freaking delighted.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 3:40 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Wallz is so good at going off script and talking to the crowd.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:41 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

It's a barnburner of a speech. Wow :)

"In Minnesota there is a golden rule- mind your own damn business!"
posted by bluesky43 at 3:41 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Walz is either the world’s best actor at playing Midwest genial authority figure or he’s actually who he seems to be.
posted by argybarg at 3:42 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I'm going with it's real
posted by bluesky43 at 3:43 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

Harris is experienced at dealing with criminals, and Walz is experienced in dealing with immature, uninformed, and possibly spoiled and/or disruptive people. They're the perfect team to pit against Trump.
posted by orange swan at 3:43 PM on August 6 [56 favorites]

In his state Capitol office, Walz displays hundreds of “challenge” coins that he’s traded and collected for years around the world.

I mean I was 100% on board with him already, but he loves maps and challenge coins? The writers are gilding the lily here.

(If the Harris team is reading this, please put a "Harris/Walz 2024" challenge coin in the merch store okay thanks)
posted by rifflesby at 3:44 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

Walz is either the world’s best actor at playing Midwest genial authority figure or he’s actually who he seems to be.

Could be both?
posted by notoriety public at 3:45 PM on August 6

HOOO, couch joke. Dang!
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 3:45 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

COUCH REFERENCE (!!!)
posted by mazola at 3:45 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

"If he's willing to get up off the couch and show up" re: debates with Vance
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 3:45 PM on August 6 [28 favorites]

"You see what I did there?" has been woefully lacking from stump speeches. Until now.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:45 PM on August 6 [21 favorites]

COUCH FUCKING HAS ENTERED THE CHAT
posted by phunniemee at 3:45 PM on August 6 [26 favorites]

COUCH JOKE !
posted by martin q blank at 3:46 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Walz hyping up Kamala was putting out a kind of "Steve Ballmer but less deranged" energy
posted by kensington314 at 3:46 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

On Vance: I can't wait to debate the guy.

Huge huge cheers.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:46 PM on August 6

Wallz (my paraphrasing): "I'm looking forward to debating if he can be bothered to get off his couch"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

COUCH JOKE?!?!?!
posted by kensington314 at 3:46 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Walz is experienced in dealing with immature, uninformed, and possibly spoiled and/or disruptive people

#not all high school students
posted by phunniemee at 3:46 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

If he's willing to get off the couch and show UP!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a quote for the ages.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:46 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

kamala trying not to laugh at the couch joke is pretty amazing.
posted by jonbro at 3:46 PM on August 6 [21 favorites]

(sending in a donation now for the couch gag)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:47 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

I love that he keeps emphasizing joy.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 3:47 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

As Harris desperately tries to keep a straight face behind him. 😂
posted by merriment at 3:47 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

BUILD THE WALZ
posted by mazola at 3:49 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Kamala Harris looks positively radiantly ecstatic.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:49 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

just went to kamalaharris.com and sent more money because papa timmy asked me to, want to be tomorrow's statistic again please
posted by phunniemee at 3:49 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Trump will probably be absolutely livid on Trump social tonight. That was a helluva introduction and barn burner from both of them!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:49 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Just when you think one random person can't make a difference, the couch joke happens and reminds you that yes, yes they can.
posted by cmyk at 3:50 PM on August 6 [35 favorites]

I can't believe he went with the couch joke! He's a natural troll!
posted by medusa at 3:51 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

(sending in a donation now for the couch gag)

"Couch gag, you say?" JD Vance, probably.
posted by stet at 3:51 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Walz's speech was absolute fire. What a great introduction.
posted by merriment at 3:51 PM on August 6

Also loved that Harris was clearly delighted by him. The two of them are adorable.
posted by medusa at 3:51 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Sincere thoughts and prayers for the alternate timeline struggling under a stubborn but fatally damaged Biden campaign. Goddamn.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:51 PM on August 6 [51 favorites]

A campaign camo hat.

It's like they took one look at the last twenty years of Republican culture war bullshit, and said no.
posted by meese at 3:53 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

agree Rhaomi. But I am so happy to have been wrong about Biden stepping down.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:53 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

"Couch gag, you say?" JD Vance, probably.

Hey we don't couch-shame here.
posted by nathan_teske at 3:54 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Sincere thoughts and prayers for the alternate timeline struggling under a stubborn but fatally damaged Biden campaign. Goddamn.

God, isn't it great to be on the right side of one of those splits for once??
posted by rifflesby at 3:54 PM on August 6 [31 favorites]

That was so amazingly good I feel like I'm dreaming. Can it be? Have we somehow stumbled our way back into the good timeline?
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 3:56 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Holy shit has the https://store.kamalaharris.com/shop-all/ updated stuff. I swear they didn't have THAT much on the front page a few hours ago (or else I missed where it was located).
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:56 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

America, there is your introduction to Tim Walz.
posted by terrapin at 3:56 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Hard not to feel like better days are possible. (And no more couch-joke-scolding! Yay!)
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:57 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I want to know if they decided ahead of time that Wallz would do the couch joke. It's such a masterful stroke, where Harris retains a bot of the Presidential gravitas and Wallz keeps the plain spoken and direct approach, while also carving out a nice for himself.

It's very similar to Biden saying, while under Obama, "this is big fucking deal"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:57 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

Holy shit has the https://store.kamalaharris.com/shop-all/ updated stuff

Their current logo is very plain, I suspect there will be a revamp soon. But the current logo does works in its simplicity and directness, much like the "Make America Great" hats did.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:00 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

He knows the Trump campaign can’t spend any time calling foul, because it just amplifies it.
posted by argybarg at 4:00 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Corb, it's perfectly fine for you to have unease, reservations, etc. This conversation started because someone said "Harris and Walz are decent people" and then someone else responded "Walz is a decent person, but Harris is not because she's a prosecutor." Our fundamental disagreement is that I don't think people who refuse to participate in a morally compromised system are more valorous than those who go into it and try and change it when there is evidence that they can, in fact, make change. I'm saying this as someone who left a morally compromised system; I feel very strongly that this does not make me better than the people who stayed and are still trying to change things. I don't need you to agree with me, but yes, I do think it is intellectually lazy to call someone like me a better person than someone still in the system based solely on the fact that they are working within the system to change it and I am not.

Now, you may have plenty of other reasons why you are uncomfortable with her--not being convinced by her narrative on why she went into prosecution is a perfectly serious objection, for example. And being uneasy, uncomfortable, unhappy, or any other sort of feeling about her being a prosecutor because you see the harm directly is totally reasonable. I'm not asking you to change that, just maybe acknowledge it is because of your specific closeness to the field and not because of some inherent quality about prosecutors as compared to doctors or military officers. I would also be super uncomfortable with an MD for president, because I know how that sausage is made! But I know that this is the state of many, many fields, and my personal closeness to this one does not mean that MDs are uniquely worse people.

Please, feel free to dislike Harris all you like. All I'm saying is "prosecutor = this individual is inherently a bad person" is just not a workable political position unless you also reject a host of other morally compromised fields. You're welcome to keep it, but I think if I detailed everything I know about how rotten the medical system is you would have to feel the same way about MDs, and at least for myself letting those feelings dictate who I think, on an individual level, is a good person, is not effective in advocacy or politics. But we can agree to disagree on that, too.
posted by brook horse at 4:01 PM on August 6 [33 favorites]

> I want to know if they decided ahead of time that Wallz would do the couch joke.

As a double zinger with the “too cowardly to debate me” barb, it seems too tightly composed to have been off the cuff. It’s also so foul that I’d hope he cleared it with the campaign first.
posted by lostburner at 4:02 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

The whole rally confirmed that Shapiro is pretty good at what he does, if a little self-absorbed, but Walz is really something special.
posted by argybarg at 4:06 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

For the first time in a decade, it feels like American life is being written by Martin RR George, the bizarro George RR Martin.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:07 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

It’s also so foul that I’d hope he cleared it with the campaign first.

I'm now imagining Walz trying out a variety of couch jokes on Harris and campaign's senior staff, who would be practically falling out of their chairs laughing and saying, "That's too funny.... but you can't use that one... that one would be fine... definitely not that one... oh stop, you're killing us...."
posted by orange swan at 4:08 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I'm not saying this is a 300 electoral vote race.

But it is definitely a 300 electoral vote week.
posted by kensington314 at 4:08 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

I hope Walz uses the word "couch" a bunch of times in a theoretical debate with Vance and forces him to either sit there and take it or explain the couch joke to a general audience and deny fuckin' that couch.
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

Never mind that -- what're his favorite Replacements and Husker Du songs? It certainly feels like a new day rising to me!

In case you didn't see, Beto posted to Twitter:

We became friends in Congress, going on early morning runs (in the dead of DC winter, I’m bundled in layers and he’s wearing a t-shirt and shorts), talking Minnesota music, the Replacements (Tim!), Prince, Dylan, Husker Du, and sharing stories about our families and hometowns.
posted by coffeecat at 4:14 PM on August 6 [40 favorites]

"I just want to couch this in a way that my opponent can relate to..."
posted by orange swan at 4:14 PM on August 6 [25 favorites]

I love the crowd chanting "USA! USA! USA!" while Harris and Walz speak. That's fucking right. This is our fucking country too.
posted by ishmael at 4:14 PM on August 6 [45 favorites]

I love the crowd chanting "USA! USA! USA!" while Harris and Walz speak.

I loved that too, but I loved "lock him up!" even more.

The worm has turned. In fact, the worm is positively spinning (and the orange worm should be squirming).
posted by rpfields at 4:18 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Sincere thoughts and prayers for the alternate timeline struggling under a stubborn but fatally damaged Biden campaign. Goddamn.

After the debate there were so many serious warnings about the difficulty of switching to a new candidate so late, and the costly chaos it would lead to.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:20 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

We became friends in Congress, going on early morning runs (in the dead of DC winter, I’m bundled in layers and he’s wearing a t-shirt and shorts), talking Minnesota music, the Replacements (Tim!), Prince, Dylan, Husker Du, and sharing stories about our families and hometowns.

If the future vice president is a Tim guy over Let It Be I will die of extreme parasocial convergence.
posted by kensington314 at 4:21 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Wallz's couch quip will become a primary source for history and studied by future students.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:27 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

If the future vice president is a Tim guy over Let It Be I will die of extreme parasocial convergence.

ooh yes but if he also really loves Pleased to Meet Me this is also acceptable
posted by Kitteh at 4:31 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

After the debate there were so many serious warnings about the difficulty of switching to a new candidate so late, and the costly chaos it would lead to.

Very serious people in the party were threatening to have a "mini-primary" contest to pick the new nominee, which seemed like a prelude to disaster. If everyone had been saying "just anoint Harris" from the get-go it would have been easier to get on board.
posted by BungaDunga at 4:31 PM on August 6 [19 favorites]

But there currently multiple negative articles right there - front page too. Nate Cohn (puke) spew about how Harris truly messed up by picking Walz;

This is not how I interpreted the Cohn article. I thought he basically said, "Walz is a pretty plausible candidate. At some point Harris will have to tack to the center and she decided the VP nod was not the way she was going to do that." He never even says she "missed" an opportunity -- she "passed on" the option to pick a moderate which is true and most people here are celebrating that as a win.

So like the underlying assertion ("Harris will have to move to the center") may be right or wrong--"center" and "left" seem kind of ill-defined in the media, to me, anyway--but I didn't think he was criticizing the decision or saying it was a particularly dangerous pick for her candidacy. Seemed analytical to me, which is basically his job I guess. Even the subhead says, "There will be other opportunities to move to the center, if that’s a goal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/06/upshot/walz-harris-vice-president.html
posted by kensington314 at 4:32 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Arizona Grand Jury Wanted to Indict Trump in Fake Electors Case

A state grand jury in Arizona that charged 18 people this spring in a scheme that sought to overturn Donald J. Trump’s 2020 election loss wanted to indict him, too, according to court papers released on Tuesday.

But prosecutors, the papers said, recommended that Mr. Trump should not be charged, citing a Justice Department policy that discourages bringing state and federal cases against the same defendant that are largely based on similar facts.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:32 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

I'm not asking you to change that, just maybe acknowledge it is because of your specific closeness to the field and not because of some inherent quality about prosecutors as compared to doctors or military officers.

I think it's actually because I have a specific closeness to both fields (prosecutors/military officers) that I think there are different moral considerations in remaining within the system and trying to change it versus exiting the system in each one. The military, while ostensibly more hierarchical and beholden to orders, as a result of the sort of fiefdom-way it's structured, often allows its members more freedom to disobey orders on ethical grounds if they are willing to accept the consequences. It creates specific structures and methods of raising ethical concerns, and as such, creates more room to improve specific portions of the system (albeit while not changing the overall system; there are valid critiques that allowing a kinder, gentler empire simply continues the process of empire and allows good people to be more comfortable with empire). And I think there are obviously differences between being, say, an infantry officer versus a supply officer versus a cyber operations officer. I think we also differ on whether or not it *is* possible for a prosecutor to fundamentally change the system enough, or whether it's "shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic". But I am willing to grant that it's possible I simply don't know enough about the medical field - and sometime I'd be open to hearing about it! You know, when we're not in a political megathread. :)
posted by corb at 4:34 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

I personally think that free lunches so that kids aren't hungry at school, for instance, is not exactly some kind of radical left position, and maybe some of these pundits should start thinking of how leaders can lead the country toward those policies instead of telling us that people need to tack toward the center-right of the party all the time. Minnesota is not some kind of socialist paradise; it's a a relatively well-governed state where we have a relatively functional public health infrastructure but also all the usual problems, too much deference to big corporate money, corrupt cops and their enablers, etc.

Most Americans would notice very little difference if they lived in Minnesota except that a lot of basic stuff would work somewhat better. I'm not trying to knock it - there are many times when I thank my stars that I live here - but this is not exactly the People's Republic of the Upper Midwest.
posted by Frowner at 4:42 PM on August 6 [44 favorites]

The Simpsons needs to open with a Vance gag.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:43 PM on August 6 [18 favorites]

Fair enough! I will say your description of the military, depressingly, sounds better than the way the medical system is structured. But I'm coming off a year where shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic sounds like a good deal because at least people would let me accomplish that in peace while the water rises instead of actively trying to wrestle me overboard, so I may be in a particularly jaded corner right now.
posted by brook horse at 4:43 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

Re: the anticipated chaos of ditching Biden, I also think you have to give the man himself a lot of credit for how smoothly he dropped out and passed the mantle. As someone who was really skeptical about him in 2020, I think that might be the most “Presidential” act I’ve witnessed, and exemplifies why I was fully prepared to be ride or die this time around.
posted by bjrubble at 4:47 PM on August 6 [60 favorites]

Very serious people in the party were threatening to have a "mini-primary" contest to pick the new nominee, which seemed like a prelude to disaster. If everyone had been saying "just anoint Harris" from the get-go it would have been easier to get on board.

And the anointing by Biden himself was the only viable way to go forward. Anything else would have been a fatal "Dems in disarray" scenario.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:47 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

Most Americans would notice very little difference if they lived in Minnesota except that a lot of basic stuff would work somewhat better

I respect your point entirely but you know not what gifts you have. My supervisor once was on a call with a clinician in Minnesota who talked about the various treatments and supports she provided for her patients and my supervisor asked, "Wait, how do you bill for any of that? Isn't that all illegal to bill for that condition?" And the clinician paused and then said in the most 'you poor thing' voice she's ever heard: "Ohhh, you live in Wisconsin."

(Your point about most Americans not noticing the difference probably still stands but I'm also like WHAT OTHER LIFE-CHANGING SECRETS ARE YOU HIDING, MINNESOTA.)
posted by brook horse at 4:48 PM on August 6 [37 favorites]

> I'm making a 'Herman the German' hotdish for dinner tomorrow night

What size dish are you using? The photos I've seen to go along with his recipe look like some nonstandard (by my standards) size. 9 x 13? 8 x 8? Round Pyrex with the Zodiac signs on it?
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:49 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

In honor of the Minnesota connection, I'd like to suggest that mod warnings in this thread be done in the voice of Marge Gunderson from "Fargo".

aw jeez Norm ya got Metafilter all over me
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:50 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Minnesota is not some kind of socialist paradise; it's a a relatively well-governed state where we have a relatively functional public health infrastructure but also all the usual problems, too much deference to big corporate money, corrupt cops and their enablers, etc.

Hard agree. Although at the same time, I've also personally been surprised to see a number of people call Walz a moderate. As one example, I saw data troll Nate Silver call him a "centrist" I think by pointing to a chart about House voting records, which just ignores the fact that he is the Governor of Minnesota, a post in which he also has a public record for analysis. I will say that looking at the laundry list of shit that man accomplished with a single vote majority makes me extremely jealous as a lefty Californian. And then I hear California derided as a leftist's paradise when in actuality the whole state is basically an anarcho-capitalist speculatory land-grab with one of the most violent prison systems in the world, and it just so happens that once in awhile we raise the minimum wage and pass some legislation that defends the rights of LGBTQ people. But we will happily use the McConnell/Trump SCOTUS decisions for the purpose of jailing people we've tossed on the streets because rent control has essentially been illegal here since the 1980s and we tear all the naturally occurring affordable housing down so trust funders can have a summer home luxury condo.

Which all just brings me back to efinitions of "left" and "centrist," as used in the popular discourse, are not very useful.
posted by kensington314 at 4:50 PM on August 6 [31 favorites]

I personally think that free lunches so that kids aren't hungry at school, for instance, is not exactly some kind of radical left position, and maybe some of these pundits should start thinking of how leaders can lead the country toward those policies

It's so weird that free bussing, free teaching, free gym equipment, free books, free air conditioning is all fine and normal, but if you toss in free lunches as well, the GOP acts like you've taken an express train to Crazytown.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:51 PM on August 6 [39 favorites]

I've met him only once, in 2018 during his first gubernatorial run, but everything in that brief interaction affirmed this take.

Part of being good at the campaigning part of being a politician is doing just that. It's why Bill Clinton got where he was despite his sometimes..questionable..morality.

It seems like Walz has that same skill. I am totally here for his BDE.

As far as pivoting to the center goes, fuck right off with that. Walz and Harris herself are right where the center would be in an alternate timeline where the bastard child of Barry Goldwater and the Third Great Awakening hadn't conspired to turn half the country into mammon worshipping prosperity gospel Christian nationalist wingnuts and should be in this one. I, for one, am fucking tired of giving those creeps any quarter. I am tired of the media normalizing their milleniarian insanity. I am tired of treating as normal the kind of shit that you would have expected to hear from a 1970s street preacher carrying a sign reading "the end is near." I'm tired of pussyfooting around the fact that at least a quarter of the electorate is literally attempting to bring about the biblical Apocalypse so that they can get raptured and watch the rest of us suffer through the breaking of the seals and suffer the tribulation at the hands of Satan's riders.

It is time to put an end to the insanity and I think Harris and Walz are just what we need to break the fever.

And for the record, I was not being at all hyperbolic about the milleniarian Christian project. They are literally working to bring about the end of the world. This is why they always seem to be in favor of whatever will cause the most chaos and why they are insistent that the US get itself right with (their) God so urgently, no matter what anyone else thinks. They believe it is their path to salvation and the end of their own suffering. These people are deeply weird. The creepy kind of weird

I wish I could remember all the books I read back in the 80s that covered all this so-called theology. My Dad didn't take it seriously, but had a bunch of milleniarian books around for the entertainment value. It made for pretty decent reading as a genre of apocalyptic fiction in the same way that many good books have been written about nuclear war or other disasters. It's just scary that so many people have come to take it as real.
posted by wierdo at 4:51 PM on August 6 [47 favorites]

Very serious people in the party were threatening to have a "mini-primary" contest to pick the new nominee, which seemed like a prelude to disaster. If everyone had been saying "just anoint Harris" from the get-go it would have been easier to get on board.

And the anointing by Biden himself was the only viable way to go forward. Anything else would have been a fatal "Dems in disarray" scenario.

Right. I thought Biden should be replaced, but I didn't see a way forward that wouldn't involve a protracted dogfight over the nomination, which would have been disastrous.
posted by orange swan at 4:51 PM on August 6 [12 favorites]

Weird is inspired verbal judo, in my opinion.

Weird has morphed in meaning, or at least acquired meaning in recent decades that many over-50s don't get. I contend that were whole generations of kids, roughly starting with the Millennials who were told weird is the word for creepy guys. The weird dude you didn't want to have to sit near on the bus. The table of weird old guys whose eyes would follow you round the restaurant, whom you would get other servers to bring the check to if you could. The weird uncle you mostly tried to ignore at family gatherings.

There's two types of weird. There's "weird" when you say it in an ascending tone, so your voice is higher at the end than at the beginning. That's the good weird. The bad weird is when you say it in a descending tone. That's the bad weird.
posted by mightygodking at 4:51 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

I personally think that free lunches so that kids aren't hungry at school, for instance, is not exactly some kind of radical left position, and maybe some of these pundits should start thinking of how leaders can lead the country toward those policies instead of telling us that people need to tack toward the center-right of the party all the time. Minnesota is not some kind of socialist paradise; it's a a relatively well-governed state where we have a relatively functional public health infrastructure but also all the usual problems, too much deference to big corporate money, corrupt cops and their enablers, etc.

Exactly. The selection of Walz is tacking to the center, while still retaining core Democratic values like "it's bad if people are hungry" and "America as a diverse and pluralistic society where everyone's identity is respected is good, actually," and "people should have the ability to vote."

It says a whole lot more about the pundits who think that what Walz has accomplished is some sort of "left" agenda than it does about Walz himself.

(Or, sadly, maybe it says something about the modern Democratic party, which espouses those values and then seems content to water them down beyond recognition. So in that sense, the selection of Walz hopefully represents a sea change...but it's towards things that have a supermajority of voter support in most cases, and if that's not "tacking to the center," what is?)
posted by Gadarene at 4:54 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

I'm legally changing my name to ‘Normal Al'

I am legit disappointed that Yankovic didn't threaten to change his name to "Norm." All this time I thought that was the joke ("I'm not Norm Al…”). Maybe this is just a misprint from a copyeditor who didn't get it. Yeah, that's gotta be it.
posted by straight at 4:54 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I was thinking that the reason why we never see Trump laughing is because no one has videoed him watching kittens being run over by a steamroller.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:54 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

I think we also differ on whether or not it *is* possible for a prosecutor to fundamentally change the system enough,

If it weren't possible, Ron DeSantis wouldn't bother illegally throwing the ones he sees as a threat to the system out of their elected office.
posted by wierdo at 4:55 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

That's basically my take, as it nicely mirrors "if voting didn't matter they wouldn't be trying so damn hard to stop people from voting."
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

NYT:Trump Campaign Criticizes Walz for State Law Providing Tampons in Schools
The law, which was passed in Minnesota last year, includes language requiring menstrual products to be available in bathrooms of all schools for grades 4 to 12 as a way to accommodate transgender students.

Wow.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:57 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

Good luck, Vance, with your “radical San Francisco/elite” script.
posted by mazola at 4:57 PM on August 6

Cecily Strong roasts Vance: "he is confusing because his rhetoric wants us to panic about immigrants but his eyeliner wants us to panic at the disco. He has been such a mistake that Trump keeps calling him Eric."

Fox News' Anti-Tim Walz Supercut Sure Makes Him Look Good
posted by kirkaracha at 4:58 PM on August 6 [24 favorites]

Kensington314, I take your points re: Cohn article, but IMO the thrust of it is that Harris made a mistake by picking a progressive (Watz as governor is a progressive)in Cohn's lofty expert opinion. And that leads me to believe he suffers what every other political hack with lifetime tenure (Brooks, Friedman, Parker, Reed, Chait, and on and on) knows, that they and they alone know what American wants and needs, good old just right of center America government.

That's not really a huge problem, if it is repulsively self aggrandizing narcissism. Rather it's the incredibly heavy hand those same jackasses and their superiors (Joe Kahn, etc) have on the till for Republicans and Trump in particular. Their political reporters constantly fanboy that repulsive troll. At the risk of being way way repetitive they just do NOT treat democrats and liberals they way they do Trumpist and the maga crowd. Eg where are the endless stories about Trump's incredibly obvious decline in cognitive abilities (Hannibal Lector, his late great friend?).

Now that the elderly if slightly diminished Biden has been shown his place (out the door) the politico-hacks have dropped that issue completely.

I firmly believe only two things can take this election away from Harris/Walz - massive voter suppression by the fascist team resulting in swing states being contested by Trump and thrown to the House - even though the fucker will lose by 10m votes in November; and the atrocious politico-media pundit cartel finding a devastating and effective 'but her emails' or 'Kerry stolen valor' or 'Gore is boring' hammer to pound constantly and every single day.

Sorry this went on so long. I just used to genuflect at the temple of the 4th estate as crucial to democracy, so waking up to find out they are sycophantic worshipers of the worst people in America is something I struggle with.

Ok, done with all that. Watz is awesome, Harris is amazing and that 300 EC win is going to happen.
posted by WatTylerJr at 5:09 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

What size dish are you using? The photos I've seen to go along with his recipe look like some nonstandard (by my standards) size. 9 x 13? 8 x 8? Round Pyrex with the Zodiac signs on it?
I'm using an 8*10" Pyrex container. I'm not a strict recipe follower. I just try to recreate the spirit. Plus it's just for my wife and me, so I'm going with just 2 brats. (Brat!!) And I'll try to follow the recipe more or less. I'm going to have to get to the store for the soups, though.

I would be making it tonight, but my wife is away. So it's for tomorrow when she gets back. Tonight I'm kinda doing a hot dish for myself- ground beef, mashed potatoes, corn. and cheese, but no soup.
That's not normally my thing. But for Herman...
posted by MtDewd at 5:10 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

I'm on board for the Bring Back the Joy swag.
I'm almost speechless but I just have to say, how happy and proud Kamala looked while he spoke like, Oh yes I did. Oh yes I did pick the right one.
posted by Glinn at 5:11 PM on August 6 [20 favorites]

After the debate there were so many serious warnings about the difficulty of switching to a new candidate so late, and the costly chaos it would lead to.

This was a very difficult and risky maneuver that has been executed with stunning aplomb by everyone involved, but I think there was plenty of reason for concern beforehand about whether the Democratic Party would pull this off as well as it has.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:12 PM on August 6 [30 favorites]

I just wanted to say that I'm excited, for the first time in years.
posted by maxwelton at 5:17 PM on August 6 [17 favorites]

Geez I've got three separate swag purchases so far, and (cough) considering a 4th. All from the official store, I should say. It doesn't feel right sending money to other people for Kamala Walz swag right now in this moment.
posted by Glinn at 5:18 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I’m not complaining at all, I just don’t see how any of this was really predictable a month ago.

I want to preface this by saying that I've consciously avoided doing any sort of "we told you so" on this site because really, I'm just generally happy with how things have gone, and I'm happy that other people are happy, including former skeptics. Truly. But since a sentiment of "we could have no idea it would turn out like this" recently came up in this thread, I want to push back on that a little - because a lot of us (and not just here, but elsewhere too) did predict something like this happening.

And I think it's worth addressing because I believe a lot of people (including myself, initially) took the wrong lesson from 2016. It made a lot of us - and again, I empathize deeply here - conclude that the US was riddled with hate and evil. It made us defensive in our politics - and often overly cautious. I'm not trying to relitigate the 2020 primary, but one of the more irksome myths that came out it was the idea that Biden was the only candidate who could beat Trump. The dislike of Trump was so strong that I'm pretty sure the majority of the wonderfully deep bench on the first debate stage could have won in 2020 (with the exception of a few of the more fringe candidates -looking at you, Williamson). Of course we'll never know, but a lot of us who were suggesting this could all work made clear our thinking was based on the existence of this deep bench. And also, the knowledge that even if Trump won the 2024 primary, Haley was frequently getting 40% of the vote. I won't belabor this much more, but I hope one lesson people take from this is a politics of doom and despair can have a real cost. Yes, we still have work to do, but a majority of this country support making sure all kids get a lunch, and a minority want to prevent people from accessing reproductive health. Most people want to get excited about a joyful ticket - we knew Harris was joyful, and so I'm not shocked she picked the most-joyful VP option. It's not so different from 2020 - people were feeling anxious, bleak and desperate to feel good - the lesson here is a lot can be accomplished when you just need to give them something to feel good about.
posted by coffeecat at 5:20 PM on August 6 [32 favorites]

I love how neither Harris or Walz have done performative ‘faith journey’ stories or similar.

I’m sure this is my innate Aussie suspicion of any public figures who make religious statements or actions, but it is SO good to see religion get put in a place it needs to be: a bit of a courteous nicety like ‘God Bless America’ and a private thing of ‘mind your own business’
posted by honey-barbara at 5:21 PM on August 6 [33 favorites]

So like the underlying assertion ("Harris will have to move to the center") may be right or wrong--"center" and "left" seem kind of ill-defined in the media, to me, anyway--but I didn't think he was criticizing the decision or saying it was a particularly dangerous pick for her candidacy.

I'm generally a NYTimes apologist here (apart from their genuinely shitty/dehumanizing trans coverage, and apart from a general recognition that while they're not "in the tank for Trump," they do, on average, suffer from a terminal case of "centrist" fetishism, as they always have, which leads them to some Trump-assisting places), but Nate Cohen really has gone off the rails at least a couple times recently, straying into pundit territory when he should be sticking to data analytics reporting (which I'd thought he'd been mostly fine at?).

The worst example is in the last paragraph of this July 22nd piece, which really is inexcusable, especially coming at the end of an article that's otherwise presented as at-a-remove poll analysis:

In fairness to Ms. Harris, it would be challenging for any Democrat today to advance a clear agenda for the future. Mr. Biden struggled to do so in his re-election campaign. The party has held power for almost 12 of the last 16 years, and it has exhausted much of its agenda; there aren’t many popular, liberal policies left in the cupboard. [What???] As long as voters remain dissatisfied with the status quo and the Democratic nominee, a campaign to defend the system might not be the slam dunk Democrats once thought it was.

(But I still seriously doubt he's hoping for a Trump win; I think he's just playing now at being one of those "serious" center-right truth-tellers, though my take on this is shaken a bit by being surprised that his "exhausted-agenda" view must be -- at least in his mind -- a solidified part of the center-right conventional wisdom these days for him to spout it so confidently here.)
posted by nobody at 5:24 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

(Oh, and I'm excited about Harris/Walz, and about how it's going to break a 175 year spell of no-Z-names-in-the-Whitehouse.)
posted by nobody at 5:27 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

Anyway, there was an op-ed in the NYTimes today I thought was pretty spot on, about how Walz could also help the DNC win back the House:

But only one is a former high school football coach: Mr. Walz. It’s an identity that has stuck over the years.

Why does that matter? Because football may be the last remaining unifying force in a deeply divided America.

Of the hundred most-watched network TV programs last year, 93 were N.F.L. games. Universities collectively draw hundreds of thousands of spectators to their stadiums, in red states and blue. And high school contests under the lights on Friday nights shut down entire towns.

Football is our civic religion. I grew up watching the Giants every week with my grandfather and father. Today I watch RedZone every Sunday with my teenage son over pizza. Millions of other American fathers and sons spend their weekends this way.

For us, football is a common language, a way of understanding the world and what it takes to be successful. In this cosmos of heroes and villains, the coach looms large.
..
This background — as a coach, and as a member of the armed services — helped him represent a blue-collar swing congressional district in Congress. He was re-elected in the red wave year of 2010 and ran nearly 15 points ahead of Mr. Trump’s winning margin in his district in 2016 — one of the highest margins of overperformance in the country.

Put simply, Mr. Walz has a record of earning support from precisely the kinds of voters Democrats need to retain the White House.

At the Republican convention last month, Mr. Trump showcased a wrestler and an ultimate fighting championship executive. Mr. Trump understands the value of strength in politics. Imagine a Democratic convention in which Tim Walz is introduced by former players who can attest to his character in supporting and guiding them to victory on the field and in life. That’s an inspiring brand of toughness. Bill Clinton reminds us that “strong and wrong” beats “weak and right.” With Ms. Harris and Mr. Walz, Democrats can own right and strong.

Mr. Walz could then begin a running conversation with voters, particularly young men, throughout the fall about football — high school, college and pro. The blue wall states Harris must win, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, are football crazy. Park Mr. Walz in them and let him crisscross the states, hopscotching from tailgates to watch parties. Put him on podcasts and talk radio that focus on football.

posted by coffeecat at 5:28 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

From a purely cynical perspective, the version of “center” readily available to Harris (i.e. a bit of tough on crime grandstanding, but not from a white guy) and the version of “left” readily available to Walz (i.e. folksy economic populism, from a white guy) seem like a pretty strong combination for the 2024 political climate.
posted by atoxyl at 5:31 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

God, isn't it great to be on the right side of one of those splits for once??

Yes, it's nice going down the leg of the Trousers of Time that doesn't have a weasel in it for a change.
posted by mikelieman at 5:34 PM on August 6 [30 favorites]

Sudeikis as Ted Lasso calling Walz for advice and stuff. omg
posted by Glinn at 5:34 PM on August 6

As a Pennsylvanian, I'm incredibly relieved. Shapiro is a solidly successful governor in a state government navigating a batshit amount of divisiveness. That doesn't mean that he would deliver Dem presidential votes as VP amongst rural conservatives out of...state pride? Besides, I want him here keeping a sharp eye on the election process and the inevitable bad faith legal challenges.
posted by desuetude at 5:35 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Walz looks a lot like Montana (and acts like it too) (Darrell Ehrlick, Daily Montanan)
posted by box at 5:38 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

in 2016 after Hillary Clinton lost, I was in the bathroom at work crying and when ask if I was okay, I said something about having hoped that a women didn't need to be perfect and could get elected because she was the best one for the job. Hopefully that wish will happen this year. Go Harris/Walz!
posted by Art_Pot at 5:42 PM on August 6 [22 favorites]

Coach vs Couch
posted by rikschell at 5:50 PM on August 6 [36 favorites]

The lesson here is a lot can be accomplished when you just need to give them something to feel good about.

This was a wonderful comment throughout, coffeecat; thank you for making it.

I often say that I'm so generally depressed about the state of the world because I'm such an optimist at heart--if I didn't think that better things were possible, it wouldn't bother me so much that things are the way they are. This is why I loved Warren as a nominee, because she was constantly telling us it wouldn't take much to improve a lot of things for a lot of people. Nothing is a silver bullet or a panacea, but something like universal childcare would solve so many day-to-day problems and have so many positive follow-on effects for so many families, and the idea that we could just...do it, just flip that switch (relatively speaking) and enact that policy, made me giddy and fizzy with hope. I have the same vibes now with the selection of Walz, and in particular with Harris genuinely seeming interested in doing for the rest of the country what he was able to do for Minnesota, and it's fantastic.

And about damn time.
posted by Gadarene at 5:50 PM on August 6 [24 favorites]

Aw, there isn't actually any Bring Back the Joy merch in the official store?

I would buy that in a second.
posted by Gadarene at 5:52 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

I would buy that in a second. SAME. DANGIT.
posted by Glinn at 5:55 PM on August 6

Scratch the surface of that for many people who say they're anti IVF and what it really is is just more ways to control women's bodies

I think this is true. At the same time there are people who've decided they care about IVF embyos enough to adopt them. I know a set of twins who have no genetic relationship to each other or to the mother who birthed and raised them (nor to the father who raised them with her).
posted by straight at 6:15 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

To they have Harris / Walz “Believe” posters?

Because the Ted Lasso vibe is strong.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:34 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Twitter thread about Tim Walz and China from Georgetown's Jeffrey Ngo:
I’m encouraged by @KamalaHarris’s selection of @Tim_Walz as her running mate. While his record as an educator, a National Guard officer, and Minnesota’s governor is acclaimed, I want to reflect on how I met this amazing guy: his dedication to human rights and #China.

Currently a line of attack on Walz is that in his time as Minnesota governor he talked up state ties to China and that his teaching abroad was funded by the Chinese government so he must be a puppet of the CCP.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:51 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Attention campaign merch folks:

|￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣|
HARRIS
WALZ
WE'RE NOT GOING BACK
|＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿|
\ (•◡•) /
\ /
---
| |

Thank you for your consideration.
posted by the primroses were over at 6:56 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

Oops, outside of the edit window but here is also an article about his time in China and after.
posted by LostInUbe at 6:58 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Oh that didn't work but whatever, I want a "We're not going back" yard sign
posted by the primroses were over at 7:00 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Goddamn, that was a great rally. You can see they like each other, and it was refreshing to see them with genuine laughs and smiles. They're drawing a great contrast between MAGA and We Aren't Going Back, and they're presenting a positive vision for the future.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:01 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Walz looks a lot like Montana (and acts like it too) (Darrell Ehrlick, Daily Montanan)

Walz also has been a case study in confronting that which other Democrats and liberals regarded as kryptonite — charges and allegations that anyone progressive is nothing more than a socialist, communist, or now, a Marxist. Despite those three labels’ important political differences, Walz hasn’t gotten flummoxed by the charges. Instead, he’s said that if by taking care of neighbors, the elderly, building roads and fixing schools is considered any of those things, then maybe; but, really that’s what Americans do to not just make America great, but to keep it that way.

If Montana couldn’t look at the Harris campaign and see glimmers of itself before, it can now.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 PM on August 6 [14 favorites]

I hope Harris and Vance come up with something other than "we're not going back" for their official/main slogan. I think it's fine as one of their catchphrases, but they need something more positive for the official one.
posted by orange swan at 7:21 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

> Twitter thread about Tim Walz and China from Georgetown's Jeffrey Ngo:

threadreaderapp:

We knocked on every door when the #HKHRDA lacked momentum. Only Walz answered his: At its absolute lowest point in 2017–18, he was the sole House Democrat willing to keep co-sponsoring the bill — seemingly a fruitless endeavor — with Smith...

And how many people in Congress — let alone a busy ranking member of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee — would so diligently be tracking political prisoners in Tibet since the 2008 uprising?

Walz is perhaps the most solid candidate when it comes to human rights and China on a major-party ticket in recent memory — if not ever. All in all, he’s also an effective, articulate, genuine champion of progressive values and policies.

posted by kliuless at 7:22 PM on August 6 [22 favorites]

It seems to me the "white guy picks a woman for the #2 position and they actually get to use that bump to move up in politics" move is working!

MN Gov. Mark Dayton picks Lt. Gov Tina Smith - she replaces Al Franken in the Senate (from his left)
Biden picks Harris as VP to set up up for Presidency
Walz picks Lt. Gov Peggy Flanagan, setting her up to be Governor
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:26 PM on August 6 [13 favorites]

I hope Harris and Walz come up with something other than "we're not going back" for their official/main slogan. I think it's fine as one of their catchphrases, but they need something more positive for the official one.

It felt to me like Harris was working on zeroing in on something about fighting for the future today but it's not quite there yet. I would like something forward/future facing. I'm fine with "we're not going back" as a minor point but not as the main.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:40 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

The plan to have Vance follow Harris around like a puppet with competing appearances in the same cities is working great!

Harris/Walz:

“I couldn’t be prouder to be on this ticket,” Walz said to an excited crowd that numbered more than 12,000, according to the Harris campaign. “Thank you for bringing back the joy.”

Vance:

“Kamala Harris has been such a disastrous vice president of this country that everywhere she goes, chaos and uncertainty follow,” he said. Vance’s rally was held shortly after noon at the 2300 Arena in South Philadelphia, and drew a crowd of more than 200 supporters.

Womp womp.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 PM on August 6 [50 favorites]

I hope Harris and Vance come up with something other than "we're not going back" for their official/main slogan. I think it's fine as one of their catchphrases, but they need something more positive for the official one.

"Forwards, not backwards"?

The ‘Blue Walz’: How a low-key Midwestern governor shot to the top to be Harris’ VP pick

Midwest humility shining through. I also imagine if you're potentially the first female President, you'd want to avoid a subordinate who might view the role as a stepping stone for their own advancement.

Walz was my top choice out of the contenders and I'm glad he made it. A really strong point in his favor is that he's somebody everybody can get behind - he might not be their first choice, but he won't make anybody mad.

The "weird" label is great because unless you're ensconced in the Right Wing Media Universe, all their grievances are just that - incomprehensible, imagined issues removed from the average person's daily life. It's the natural consequence of pandering to the Trumpist core and each time they double down, they lose people on the periphery and take themselves further from the mainstream. Remember when Mike Johnson had to beg other Republicans to stop saying "DEI" with a hard R?
posted by ndr at 7:45 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

In her MKE speech she said something about “who we fight for” and that with “when we fight, we win” seem to be coalescing as an idea.
posted by brook horse at 7:45 PM on August 6 [3 favorites]

And I think it's worth addressing because I believe a lot of people (including myself, initially) took the wrong lesson from 2016. It made a lot of us - and again, I empathize deeply here - conclude that the US was riddled with hate and evil. It made us defensive in our politics - and often overly cautious. I'm not trying to relitigate the 2020 primary, but one of the more irksome myths that came out it was the idea that Biden was the only candidate who could beat Trump.
…
I hope one lesson people take from this is a politics of doom and despair can have a real cost.

I… had the impression that the folks who wanted to replace Biden after the debate were the ones acting based on doom and despair, not the other way around? That was the tenor of our thread here on Metafilter in the lead up to Biden dropping out of the race, at least. Speaking for myself, I was quite disappointed about there not being a contest in the primaries. The anointing of Biden back then seemed to me to be a combination of the fear you describe (but coming from many of the pundits who subsequently wanted him replaced after the debate) and tendencies within the Democratic Party to centralize power and maintain status quo. And I thought that Biden specifically was not the only nor even the best candidate to beat Trump a second time around. But I also thought that the time for a contest was then, not now. It seemed to me that many of at least the pundit voices who were so doom and despair on Biden’s chances after the debate were exhibiting that defensive or overly cautious view of fellow Americans that you describe, and many of the rest were doing more of the same power grab/centralization within the Democratic Party. So my worry about Biden pulling out of the race at the time was less a distrust of average Americans than a distrust of those with platforms and loud voices, and a distrust of their assessment of average Americans.

Anyway, everyone naturally gets a little defensive when they feel like their views or beliefs are being misrepresented, and I am no different. But I’m happy to set that aside and be gracious that things seem to have worked out much better this way than if Biden had not dropped out of the race!
posted by eviemath at 7:48 PM on August 6 [8 favorites]

I'm hoping for "Harris/Walz: Fight for the future," just because that was the subtitle of Street Fighter III: Third Strike.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:49 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

According to sources it was close until she asked the VP hopefuls to define positraction and only Walz knew it’s a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires. The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Minnesota knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.

posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:49 PM on August 6 [56 favorites]

I'm hoping for "Harris/Walz: Fight for the future," just because that was the subtitle of Street Fighter III: Third Strike.

choose and pick the best one
posted by atoxyl at 7:58 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

I hope Harris and Vance come up with something other than "we're not going back"

Prob more of a merch suggestion than an actual slogan, but I bet they could get the rights to

"Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose"

if they asked.
posted by ishmael at 7:58 PM on August 6 [9 favorites]

Actually, what if they claimed

"USA! USA! USA!"

as their slogan?
posted by ishmael at 8:02 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

Of course Weird Al isn't going to change his name. Why would he? They're the ones who suck.
posted by biogeo at 8:03 PM on August 6 [15 favorites]

I… had the impression that the folks who wanted to replace Biden after the debate were the ones acting based on doom and despair, not the other way around?

Doom, or optimism that a different candidate would pull us out of our headlong descent into the ground?
posted by Gadarene at 8:33 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

> in any case, obviously none of this is a reason to not vote for harris, because it is unreasonable to want or expect someone running for a position of high power within an electoral system to be a good person.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements

...because it is unreasonable to want or expect someone running for a position of high power within [any] system to be a [perfect] person.

> in terms of law and in terms of electoral politics there's been so much positive change so relatively quickly, and you gotta give a lot of credit to the politicians who were involved early on.

QED

–––––––

The attack on IVF by the party of so-called family values is a genuinely weird thing, and also about as dumb as it gets politically.

So, of course, I encourage them to go right on doing it.

As to "Tim Walz will unleash hell on earth". That is so far past weird & desperate & delusional that there isn't even a word for it yet.

–––––––

>It also says his favorite Dylan song is "Forever Young," doesn't mention if it's the A-side's slow version or the B-side's fast version. So far this is my biggest quibble about Walz though; "Forever Young" is not even a top 25 Dylan song.

sure but what's his favourite prince song??
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane

Prince? Pfft.

The yoof are grokking Steely Dan for their retro kicks these days. If Walz can crank out a few bars of any Dan song without embarrassing himself then nothing can save Trump & MAGA.

–––––––

I’ve been saying until the last two weeks the Ds were going by the 2008 playbook not realizing it ain’t 2008 no more. Yes we want decency to prevail but decency needs to have some teeth
posted by St. Peepsburg

It is always the right time and place to tell Nazis to fuck off. Forcefully if required.

–––––––

Take the fucking win.
posted by corb

Et tu, Corbus.

–––––––

"If he's willing to get up off the couch and show up"

he he he

But he needs to be careful with this line of attack. Use it very sparingly. Just once in the VP debate would be enough. Otherwise it just looks grubby, which is the one thing Dems need to avoid.

–––––––

If you want a single numerical metric on how the campaign is going just watch the crowd sizes. That will tell you more than all the polls put together.

There is a reason Trump is so obsessed with crowd size, and it is not entirely his extreme and insatiable narcissism. He knows it reflects directly on his draw power and popularity, and without it he is heading straight into the dustbin of history, probably via jail.
posted by Pouteria at 8:33 PM on August 6 [2 favorites]

>The attack on IVF by the party of so-called family values

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
posted by torokunai at 8:40 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

“You can realize you did a shitty thing and then change” is very much not a Republican thing. It’s barely even a centrist Dem thing.
posted by Artw at 8:51 PM on August 6 [10 favorites]

We won't go back is also a good segue into mentioning the old guy associated with the old way.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:57 PM on August 6

Twitter post: Kamala’s schedule this week vs Trump’s schedule this week.

Trump isn’t hitting any of the battleground states this week. If they are sending only Vance — the least liked VP candidate in modern history — to the battlegrounds, and then only pulling 200 attendees to Harris’ 12000, while Lazy Mussolini is only going to one event to try to pick up a Senate seat in Montana, then they’re screwed.

Early voting starts in some states in just over a month. For Trump to have essentially no presence in the battlegrounds this week…well, I just hope they keep this up.
posted by darkstar at 8:58 PM on August 6 [32 favorites]

The China stuff is genuinely another positive metric for me, insofar that I hope his perspective remains front and centre as the current economic war with China will likely continue (I'm saying this thinking about how American protectionism is shooting itself in the foot by trying to demonize Chinese solar energy output).
posted by cendawanita at 9:03 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

It is always the right time and place to tell Nazis to fuck off. Forcefully if required.

from the mouth of babes
posted by philip-random at 9:04 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

I think the IVF story is a great one and hopefully his family is good with him hammering on it. I know so many families who’ve struggled with fertility issues, I think really to show that the republicans really don’t care about families
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:13 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

WapPo gift link to an article about Walz's 1995 arrest for drunk driving when he was 31. It's come up in his previous campaigns, so not something new, but I guess we'll see how it plays out in this one.

Not sure it will come up as an issue since he stopped drinking after it happened. I mean, the other team's main guy is a felon rapist who would fuck his daughter if it wasn't frowned upon.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:14 PM on August 6 [16 favorites]

Just to follow up on the early ballot note, this site lists how early each state can send out their absentee ballots. Several states can send them out 45 days before the election, or even earlier.

North Carolina can send out its absentee ballots 60 days before the Nov 5th election, which would be September 5th. Pennsylvania 50 days before. Wisconsin 47 days before. Michigan & Virginia 45 days before.

So it’s quite possible that some people in battleground states could be voting absentee as early as second or third week in September. This is not a time to leave the campaigning to the JV team.
posted by darkstar at 9:18 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

Vance’s rally was held shortly after noon at the 2300 Arena in South Philadelphia

As a pro-wrestling fan of a certain age, that is sad to read. Oh, if only Mick Foley had been around to put him through a flaming table...
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:19 PM on August 6 [4 favorites]

Someone on Facebook tried to post Walz's DUI mugshot as a gotcha. My reply was "Yup, he sure did fuck up once in 1995! You'd think that after something like that a man would turn his life around and never touch alcohol again—oh, wait, that's exactly what he did."
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:20 PM on August 6 [45 favorites]

Oh, now that gets me in the Dad feels.

I was born and bred in Minnesota, and Walz feels so much like my kind of guy -- but that line... Ooof. I'm in.

SAME! And even moreso as someone currently going through IVF. Happy sad cry! Go Walz!
posted by sucre at 9:27 PM on August 6 [11 favorites]

As Craig Ferguson used to say "It's a great day for America everybody!" I've been just giddy all day. I'm very excited to vote FOR people instead of just against people. I just started a short course of steroids and my doctor asked me to let her know if I have any depression or mania. I'm not sure what to tell her. There is mania, but likely not from the prednisone.

I'm sad we're losing Walz in MN, but he's going to be amazing so I'm happy to share him.

I've met Walz and that's not an act you're seeing, it's just him. No, he's not perfect but he also knows that and he is genuine and works very hard for all of the people he represents and governs.

Hammering on the DUI is a very stupid move. I was a lousy drunk (I'm not saying Walz was, I don't know) and I did loads of stupid things. I've been sober for years. It was hard and I'm proud of it. The best people I know I have met in recovery. There are lots of us. There are lots more people who care about people like us. We all know the strength required to admit the mistakes and get better. Walz doesn't really talk about it, but he also doesn't deny it. He took responsibility and got better. For so many people that's a huge mark in the plus column for him and they may not have heard about it if it wasn't brought up as a gotcha. I don't think MAGA types understand contrition, amends,or self-improvement as anything but weakness though, so they'll probably keep hammering away.

I haven't seen this posted here yet so I'm sorry if it's a repeat: Memes, jokes, silly photos of Walz emerge after he’s picked to be VP candidate (the page was slow loading for me)
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:53 PM on August 6 [31 favorites]

I hear evangelicals really love a repentance and redemption story though. It's a trope he can lean into. And it's also a crime many people have committed and forgiven themselves for, relatable if you will.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:03 PM on August 6

Don't the Bushes have a vehicular ~~homicide~~ manslaughter in their nearish family tree that they've let live under the rug?
posted by porpoise at 10:13 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

As promised, here's the Cheesy Tater Tot Casserole recipe.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 10:24 PM on August 6 [7 favorites]

Don't the Bushes have a vehicular homicide manslaughter in their nearish family tree that they've let live under the rug?

Laura Bush Killed a Guy, the play. (As a teenager she ran a stop sign and killed another teenager.)
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:57 PM on August 6 [5 favorites]

Anyone remember Rick Santorum falling out of politics in part because of the success of an online campaign to connect his name to the definition “the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex” anytime his name was entered in a Google search?

“Couch fucker” doesn’t have quite the same musicality to it, but I think we could work with it.
posted by tllaya at 11:11 PM on August 6 [6 favorites]

I think Dubya Jr. had a DUI.
posted by Selena777 at 11:48 PM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile, Trump is writing fan fiction about Biden coming back again. He really misses him!
posted by mmoncur at 1:12 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Wowwww that is a super weird thing to write, what kind of weird creepy person writes that??
posted by tovarisch at 1:25 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

ok this is the funniest Wolverine meme I've ever seen.
posted by tovarisch at 2:04 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

I think Dubya Jr. had a DUI.

Yep. From the end of the WaPo article:

As a candidate for president in 2000, George W. Bush acknowledged being arrested for drunken driving 24 years earlier.

It wasn't a huge deal in the campaign, as I recall.
posted by mediareport at 2:07 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Nancy Pelosi Helped Tank Josh Shapiro’s VP Chances After Knifing Biden

Huh, turns out it wasn't either ardent progressives or some sort of gross antisemitic stereotype of Bernie Sanders being a tricksy backstabbing Jew after all.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:36 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

Cecily Strong roasts Vance: "he is confusing because his rhetoric wants us to panic about immigrants but his eyeliner wants us to panic at the disco.

Oh god, I didn't think it was possible for my crush on Cecily Strong to get any stronger.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:52 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

This is from WAY up thread:

You mean when the democrats were selling a story that Biden was the only way to win and to critique him was basically an endorsement of Trump?

Owning that I was in this camp, but there's a reason: i was worried about "who else would we find in time if Biden drops out". We were very close to a deadline for formalizing the ballot in Ohio - I was afraid that Biden dropping out would trigger a chaotic sort of primary race that wouldn't get resolved in time, and there would be a whole lot of Dem infighting around candidate A vs. B vs. C as different groups argued on behalf of their own horses and against others, and in the mess we'd end up missing the deadline and the whole thing would collapse.

What reassured me wasn't Harris immediately stepping forward when Biden dropped out, so much as it was the nearly universal support she's gotten from Dem leaders and Dem voters. Delegates had to have a virtual roll call on Monday as a formality, and she got 99% of the votes from delegates - there was none of the drama I was afraid of, we were all set. So we can put the focus back on how much better Harris would be than Trump, and keep talking that up.

Plus, both Harris and Walz seem to be slam-dunking the messaging. "When they go low, we go high" is a noble ideal, but it just plain wasn't working; "aren't they just....creepy?" is what we needed now, and they're killing it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 AM on August 7 [45 favorites]

Amanda Marcotte attended both yesterday's Vance event and the Harris rally, and wrote about the contrast for Salon. Her description when linking to the piece on bluesky was It was like leaving a bitter divorced man meet-up and going straight to a Taylor Swift concert.
posted by the primroses were over at 4:33 AM on August 7 [36 favorites]

As a candidate for president in 2000, George W. Bush acknowledged being arrested for drunken driving 24 years earlier.

It wasn't a huge deal in the campaign, as I recall.

Wasn't it? As I recall the news was leaked three days before the election, causing a large swing towards Gore.
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 4:38 AM on August 7

As many others have said, I too am relieved at how smoothly this has gone. The attitude shift with Harris is also correct: Pedal down, stay on the offensive, keep them fumbling.

Seeing the polling shifts these last few weeks has eased my anxiety about this election considerably. Still work to do - please volunteer if you are able (thank you, ALeaflikeSupport!)! The more help, the better.
posted by glaucon at 4:39 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

“You mean when the democrats were selling a story that Biden was the only way to win and to critique him was basically an endorsement of Trump?” is a borderline bad faith characterization of what most people were saying, generally that you had to have a viable alternative ready to go rather than just generalized grumping about Biden’s age unconnected to a serious alternative. Repeating the primary at the convention would have been a disaster, and all of the people predicting that doing it later would have lead to Republican secretaries of state trying to keep them off the ballot were almost certainly right, too. Too many of the people were looking for internet points / cocktail party kudos (or punishing Biden for not doing an exclusive interview) rather than staying focused on defeating Trump.

What was very good to see is that the more serious people in the party recognized that risk and coalesced rapidly on Harris so instead of the disorganization the Republicans were hoping for we have a wave of renewed enthusiasm and a candidate who is far more willing to honestly talk about what’s at stake.
posted by adamsc at 4:48 AM on August 7 [23 favorites]

I was one of those who thought that if Biden dropped out we'd have a mess on our hands.

I'm VERY pleasantly surprised and I also strongly suspect that Biden took so long to drop out because he was on the phone convincing lots of Dems to commit to supporting Harris before he would do it. Maybe Harris or Pelosi were making calls too. We may never know, but I have trouble believing this kind of mass agreement happened purely organically...
posted by mmoncur at 4:59 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]

I like "We Won't Go Back." We won't go back to back alley abortions. We won't go back to women being chattel. We won't go back to no Obama care. We won't go back to failed environmental policies. We won't go back to failing kids. Etc. We are moving FORWARD, into a bright future. One might even say we are progressing.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:01 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Lamb!
posted by needled at 5:03 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Not to get too far into this, but perhaps in the future, we should have real primaries with incumbents to help prevent this situation. I guarantee that if Biden was forced to debate other Democratic hopefuls back in January, his declining performance could have been caught then versus a month ago. Unfortunately, "There's no reason to check if there's a problem" was paired to "It's too late to do anything about the problem."

Let's be proactive and have incumbents interview for their place on the ticket. We now know the risks if we don't.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 5:03 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

My God, we’ve really been starved for joy and kindness, haven’t we?

It’s almost as if you can say that it’s... you know... morning in America.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:04 AM on August 7 [16 favorites]

"Kamala Harris has been such a disastrous vice president of this country that everywhere she goes, chaos and uncertainty follow,” [Vance] said.

I wanted to highlight this line, because Vance's appearance tour is literally following everywhere Harris goes.

Owning that I was in this camp, but there's a reason: i was worried about "who else would we find in time if Biden drops out". We were very close to a deadline for formalizing the ballot in Ohio - I was afraid that Biden dropping out would trigger a chaotic sort of primary race that wouldn't get resolved in time, and there would be a whole lot of Dem infighting around candidate A vs. B vs. C as different groups argued on behalf of their own horses and against others, and in the mess we'd end up missing the deadline and the whole thing would collapse.

Likewise - I thought that Harris was the obvious choice but I was sure that Democrats would convince themselves that they couldn't do it, too timid to unite behind the Backup President. Turns out: not so much, despite strong efforts from the dipshits Democrats normally listen to! The party moved in lockstep, without the whiff of coronation that Hillary Clinton faced in 2016. The fact that the messaging has been high-energy, smart, and highly shareable instead of trying to get media pundits on side has been icing on the cake.

I think the fact that it's only 100 days of campaigning is going to be really helpful in keeping everyone focused, and keeping the inevitable baggage from being too impactful.
posted by Merus at 5:06 AM on August 7 [16 favorites]

It’s almost as if you can say that it’s... you know... morning in America.

*frantically tossing holy water onto this thread to keep the ghost of reagan at bay*
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:07 AM on August 7 [41 favorites]

CNN's headline this morning:

"Harris' optimistic vision contrasts with Trump's darker outlook"

Yep, got that, but the subheadline:

"A campaign rooted in hopefulness, when many Americans feel demoralized, could backfire on Harris"

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. Right, demoralized people don't want HOPE. 🤦‍♀️

(Hope was also devastating for Obama's campaign, remember?!?!)
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:09 AM on August 7 [40 favorites]

Don Moynihan writes in his substack about how rare it is to get an educator running for high political office in the US and how that background shapes Walz's politics: Tim Walz is a teacher. A pretty good one by all accounts. And maybe we need a bit more of those skills in the White House.
posted by the primroses were over at 5:15 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

...or at least in the Naval Observatory
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:17 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. Right, demoralized people don't want HOPE. 🤦‍♀️

I’m in my early 50s, and I’ve been, until recently, a reliable subscriber to both the NYT and the Post for many years, as well as a selective reader of a bunch of other big national papers. In the last five years or so, it is become increasingly clear – especially since the strong pivot to clickbait - that none of them are anything other than very sporadically useful for political news or opinion. It really feels like anyone serious about these things has to shift to a much more niche/customized following of select analysts via social media, newsletters, etc., since they’ve ceded their relevance to try and save a doomed business model. It sucks.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:20 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]

Sharing an acquaintance's post from Facebook because it made me cackle:

"Hear me out: the DNC should get together with Randy Rainbow and some Broadway folks to do a Springtime For Trump musical at the convention. Go full Mel Brooks on his ass."

....Comments are also invoking Avenue Q and casting Steve Martin as Walz.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:24 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

> we should have real primaries with incumbents

Checking the 1984 GOP primary, it looks like Harold Stassen was the last liberal Republican . . . seemed like a decent bloke overall.

as for the wisdom of primaries, since 1900, ~33% of incumbents running for reelection lost . . . Taft (centrist reform challenge from Roosevelt), Hoover (the 1920s boomtimes blew up), Ford (recession/Watergate), Carter (inflation/Volcker), Bush (1980s boomtimes blew up / weirdo challenge from Perot), Trumpo (not sure how Biden pulled this off TBH)
posted by torokunai at 5:24 AM on August 7

IATSE Takes Swipe At J.D. Vance After Philadelphia Rally Gaffe

IATSE has taken a swipe at Donald Trump’s vice presidential running mate, J.D. Vance, for the stage setup on his latest campaign stop.

“Here’s why you should hire union stagehands and stage designers,” the below-the-line crew union wrote in an X post on Tuesday, alongside the image of Vance giving a speech in Philadelphia.

Behind him, a looming sign reads “Kamala Chaos,” which has become one of several recent Republican campaign slogans targeting Vice President Kamala Harris. However, with people standing in front of the sign, only her first name is visible...

posted by mikelieman at 5:24 AM on August 7 [45 favorites]

...or at least in the Naval Observatory

If we're being pedantic (and we always are, joyfully so), the VP works out of offices on the White House grounds, and I'm pretty sure Moynihan is touting Walz's teaching skills as an official boon, not speculating about the possibility of cool ass themed bulletin boards in the VP residence.
posted by the primroses were over at 5:24 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Bush II's DUI: Wasn't it? As I recall the news was leaked three days before the election, causing a large swing towards Gore.

You may be right; I shouldn't have said that as I haven't thought or read about the 2000 race in ages.
posted by mediareport at 5:26 AM on August 7

“Here’s why you should hire union stagehands and stage designers,” the below-the-line crew union wrote in an X post on Tuesday, alongside the image of Vance giving a speech in Philadelphia.

Behind him, a looming sign reads “Kamala Chaos,” which has become one of several recent Republican campaign slogans targeting Vice President Kamala Harris. However, with people standing in front of the sign, only her first name is visible...

The former stage manager in me is willing to bet a lunch that a couple of the techies noticed this was about to happen, looked at each other and said "I'm not gonna point it out to them if you don't either."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:28 AM on August 7 [41 favorites]

Nate Cohn (puke) spew about how Harris truly messed up by picking Walz; How Trump is going to attack Walz for being a "Bernie Sanders" liberal (oh no, gasp, but in shit pundit/NYT land thats the worst anyone can be); and an article excitedly digging up Walz's DUI from decades ago (when he admirably decided to give up alcohol).

I don't think most of these qualify as what I'd think of as "attacks". The first two are suggesting he's a political mistake rather than pointing out actual things that are bad about him, and that's basically the pundit class crawling up its own ass and trying to make self-fulfilling prophecies, that he's politically toxic because they say so. The third at least has an actual personal flaw in it, although, yeah, in context, it's hard to look at that see it as anything but another way he's actually got a very good and strong character.
posted by jackbishop at 5:39 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

Coach vs Couch
posted by rikschell at 20:50

"The coach v the couch: key takeaways from the first Harris-Walz rally" [The Guardian]
posted by terrapin at 5:51 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

For folks who don't have time for the 35-minute mapnerd talk Walz recently gave at a GIS conference, linked above, here's an article summarizing it:

Former geography teacher Tim Walz is really into maps

At the keynote, Walz shared something called the Minnesota Executive Map Portfolio, a collection of online maps showing data on some of his policy priorities: children and families, the climate and the economy.

He spoke at length about a map of peat bogs (“Minnesota has the second most of these only behind Alaska”); one showing child tax credit filing versus eligibility (“we had to get out there and find out who’s not filing for taxes and break it down to the street level”); and a map of youth job skills training rates (“matched up with the employers who are there, overlaid with our high school graduation rates, means fewer students drop through the cracks.”)

Walz also has strong feelings about maps he’s not particularly fond of. In 2023, he told an ESRI audience that “we need to find the first person who put that red-blue map up and beat the hell out of them for putting that on, because it divided the country. And it did not show the nuance that GIS shows.”

The whole article is worth a read.
posted by mediareport at 5:53 AM on August 7 [38 favorites]

My take is that the dropping out of Joe Biden and elevation of Harris and Walz has put a wedge between actual Democratic politicians and the media apparatchiks that have wielding massive influence on them for so long. These "smartest guys in the room" honestly thought they had the ear of real politicians and the general public. What is happening now is revealing how little influence they actually have. Aaron Sorkin and Nate Cohn and Nate Silver and hundred others are being revealed as vacuous and meaningless, and and I am here for it! The professional commentary class has long departed from describing reality to instead enforcing their self-important and empty version of it. If there is a Harris/Walz victory, other than a great sense of relief I will feel, I'll also take a certain amount of glee in neutering these overpaid, over-indulged public parasites.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 5:59 AM on August 7 [59 favorites]

IATSE Takes Swipe At J.D. Vance After Philadelphia Rally Gaffe

Their campaign is just SO BAD. The last place you want JD Vance---couch humping, ivy league weirdo anti union dork with no amount of normalcy in his body---to go to make him seem like a normal human is SOUTH PHILLY. I can't even put it into words but if you know, you know.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:03 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Every single time I think about how J.D. Vance is never, ever going to live down the couchfucker thing (i.e., the other residents of his nursing home are going to call him that, it will be mentioned in his obituary), I get the giggles.

Couldn't have happened to a better creepy weirdo. I mean, Dan Quayle is out there somewhere breathing a sigh of relief that people only called him stupid.
posted by orange swan at 6:09 AM on August 7 [22 favorites]

They're also having him trail Harris/Walz, so it already looks pathetic, like someone desperately trying to scout out the other team because they're worried about a drubbing. It invites very unflattering comparisons with the right now quite successful Harris/Walz campaign.

And also, Vance is doing this alone, so everyone is asking, "Where's Trump? Why isn't he with his running mate?"
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:09 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

His event was at the old Extreme Championship Wrestling arena. Now there's a crew who knew how to abuse some furniture.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:11 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

TIM WALZ: I'd put Bob Seger's catalogue up there against anybody else's.

JD VANCE: People who use libraries should be sterilized.

RFK JR.: Bigfoot is real and I shot him with a crossbow in 1997.
posted by valkane at 6:20 AM on August 7 [85 favorites]

My take is that the dropping out of Joe Biden and elevation of Harris and Walz has put a wedge between actual Democratic politicians and the media apparatchiks that have wielding massive influence on them for so long.

They for sure hit a big disappointment here. They were supposed to get a big dig and pony show once Biden stepped down, with Dems clambering over each other to show off to them and them getting to opine on who had the most desirable (centrist) traits, and instead they got none of that.
posted by Artw at 6:25 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

The professional commentary class has long departed from describing reality to instead enforcing their self-important and empty version of it. If there is a Harris/Walz victory, other than a great sense of relief I will feel, I'll also take a certain amount of glee in neutering these overpaid, over-indulged public parasites.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 5:59 AM on August

A million times this.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:30 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

Prince? Pfft.

Don't ever say this in hearing of another Minnesotan. Since you're a mefite I will forgive this transgression once.....once!

Prince was a hometown hero. I live a couple miles from his house and drive down Prince Rogers Nelson memorial highway every day.

He may or may not have a favorite Steely Dan song but he absolutely has a favorite Prince song.

PS: An artists best song and your favorite song can be two wildly different things. Sometimes I like song better than a better song. Don't know why, just do.
posted by VTX at 6:32 AM on August 7 [38 favorites]

I guess we can start referring to Trump as Dennis Quaid's asshole now.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:33 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

There's a vomit inducing piece in the NYT today subtly and not so subtly pointing at Walz's demeanor during the beginning part of the rally where Harris was introducing herself and then her running mate. The overall tenor was that this guy just fell off of a truck and was overwhelmed by the spotlight on him. His barnburner of speech completely belied that description yet the article never acknowledged that. The article was infuriatingly superior and one more example of the elite press feeling the need to demean people who don't live up to their "standards".
posted by bluesky43 at 6:36 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

The salt of the earth people they’ve met in diners do not approve AT ALL.
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Bluesky43, a man can't be EMOTIONAL during an IMPORTANT MOMENT, that criticism comes across as fragile masculinity from the NYT, big surprise, right?
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:42 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

I've never gone to a political rally before--living in a swing state is new for me. But Harris is coming to my city, and I want to go... But I can't figure out how to actually do it! Web search is bloated with useless click bait.

Anyone able to point me towards details about Harris's upcoming rally in Phoenix?
posted by meese at 6:44 AM on August 7

> Kamala Chaos

okay but this name has dark brandon energy
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 6:46 AM on August 7 [36 favorites]

Hi meese, that is because the exact details are still to come. But if you sign up at KamalaHarris.com (close all the plea for donation windows) they will message you when the details exist.
posted by rednikki at 6:48 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Let's not retcon this. Biden didn't want to drop out. He became wildly unpopular, not only because of his terrible debate performance, but also by his terrible handling of Gaza. Right now, most of us on the left are still waiting to see what Harris's platform is -- and yes, "I'm not Trump or Biden" is a very good one, but I'm waiting for a hard position on Netanyahu. Shapiro as a VP would of had me voting uncommitted, Walz is hopeful, I'm over here holding my breath.
posted by iamck at 6:51 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

I'm VERY pleasantly surprised and I also strongly suspect that Biden took so long to drop out because he was on the phone convincing lots of Dems to commit to supporting Harris before he would do it.

I don't think this is very likely. All reports point to Biden being very reluctant to step aside and having required several influential Democrats leaning on him hard to make him do so.

West Wing aside, very few people who reach high levels of public office are selfless souls without interest in personal glory and power.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:52 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

okay so walz made the couch joke so i think next harris should make an offhand reference to trump tryna strike a chord
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 7:00 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

The couch thing is A-grade shitposting but straight-up calling Vance “couch-fucker” just kills the joke.
posted by argybarg at 7:04 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

I'm trying to figure out why people have embraced Tim Walz so enthusiastically when people called Tim Kaine boring and compared him to a sweater vest. They seem like similar men to me: salt of the earth, daddish types with a solid record of public service. The best positive reason I can come up with is that Walz comes across as warmer, more gregarious, and more fun, and people respond more readily to that.

Fun fact that I just learned now from reading Tim Kaine's Wikipedia page: he and Biden were Obama's top two candidates for the VP slot in 2008. Obama told Kaine, "You are the pick of my heart, but Joe is the pick of my head."
posted by orange swan at 7:04 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

I… had the impression that the folks who wanted to replace Biden after the debate were the ones acting based on doom and despair, not the other way around?

I take your point - perhaps in going for brevity I wasn't clear - I'd say everyone agreed the debate was bad, but one side seemed to boil down (and this is a crude simplification) to "this is bad, but it's the best option we have" whereas the other was "this is bad, but at least there are alternative paths we can pursue." And the former camp drew on a lot of doomerist views to conclude that staying the course was the best option - i.e. everyone saying "but the Republicans will just steal the election by refusing to put another candidate on the ballot" and "Biden dropping out will cause the Dems to be in further disarray" and "everyone who voted for Biden will feel robbed and won't get on board" and "the media will be just has harsh on the new candidate as the are on Biden - they want Trump to win!" and "a Black woman can't win - America is too racist/sexist" etc. Of course the jury is still out on the final point, but I think we can all agree that the rest were overly pessimistic (and on the final point it's certainly clear that the level of excitement is high and so far holding and reflected in better polling - a good early sign).

Anyway, the previous Ezra Klein podcast with Walz that meinvt linked to above is quite good - I was liking Walz quite a bit before listening, but that interview assured me that Walz isn't just good in situations that require punchiness (i.e. cable news) but is solid going off-script and getting into longer-form policy discussions.
posted by coffeecat at 7:04 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

> Kamala Chaos

okay but this name has dark brandon energy

It's also just such a bizarre and toothless line of attack. Like, I understand that the Trump campaign was blindsided by Biden dropping out (though they really, really could have been prepared for it) and are now just in the "throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks" phase of dealing with a new (and again, entirely predictable) opponent. But, like, bullying is Trump's one skill, and it really looks like he can't find an effective way to go about it w/r/t Harris. And if I had to guess, he's not going to be able to do it with Walz either.

And, of course, he's barely campaigning himself, which hopefully the press is about to pick up on. It reads like he doesn't have the stamina for it - which wouldn't be surprising, given his age - and the strategy of sending hid deeply uncharismatic running mate to follow Harris around is just a plainly bad one, turning all of her barnstorming stops into little SotUs with Vance doing the limp opposition responses. It's just bad.

I have to imagine there's another shoe waiting to drop here at some point, because he's just been such an effective villain for the past nine years of crashing into our collective brainspaces uninvited on the daily, but right now it really just looks like he's run out of steam. That's too much to hope for, of course, but truthfully, the signs are not looking good for him.

Which means they're looking good for everyone else, though.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:05 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

I don't think this is very likely. All reports point to Biden being very reluctant to step aside and having required several influential Democrats leaning on him hard to make him do so.

I said a couple of times he was likely not dropping out without an ironclad guarantee that it was going to be Harris. He knew full well that if the nomination became a free for all, with people like Newsom trying so push their way into the nomination, and mega-donors all trying to anoint their chosen ones, then it would have been such an electoral ass-whipping that he might as well have stayed in. The signs were there for a couple of weeks that he was ready to make the decision. But it’s not a decision you make in a hurry because there are no take-backs once you even hint you might drop out. He held all of the cards and if he was dropping out, it was gonna be on his terms.
posted by azpenguin at 7:12 AM on August 7 [23 favorites]

Re: Tim Kaine - maybe it's because I was busy with grad school in 2016, but I don't recall there being much of a Veepstakes - the news focus seemed to be more on the Clinton - Bernie rivalry. When Tim Kaine was announced I recall my response being "Who's that?" Which again, was maybe my fault, but Walz has really put himself out there in recent days - I also think it's just easier to judge a Governor's record than a Senator's - few Senators can say they've enacted the number of programs/policy that Walz has done (obviously for many reasons that are not their fault).
posted by coffeecat at 7:13 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Obama chuckled. "You mean the Kamala Chaos Emeralds?"
posted by taquito sunrise at 7:13 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]

bluesky43, which piece are you referring to? I read the “Five Takeaways” piece earlier, which seems to follow the content outline you described, but I do not at all get the same negative impression of the writing that you do.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:16 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

Kaine also was a staunch Catholic who stated he was personally opposed to abortion, for just one example of the ways Kaine was seen as less progressive than Walz seems. That position was not really a huge enthusiasm-builder.
posted by mediareport at 7:18 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]

There's a vomit inducing piece in the NYT today subtly and not so subtly pointing at Walz's demeanor during the beginning part of the rally where Harris was introducing herself and then her running mate. The overall tenor was that this guy just fell off of a truck and was overwhelmed by the spotlight on him.

Oh, I read the same article, but had the opposite takeaway, that it was painting him as authentic and excited, like a regular person thrust into the spotlight (nevermind that he's already a governor, and...overlooking the article's fixation on Harris' wardrobe and that questionable "more relevantly, a Black woman" phrasing right before it).

In any case, that article, I'd thought, was kind of a fluff piece about optics/appearances, accompanied by this one that was about the speeches themselves.
posted by nobody at 7:18 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

And the former camp drew on a lot of doomerist views to conclude that staying the course was the best option - i.e. …

And I’m saying that your impression of my reasons and the reasons of other folks I know or follow who weren’t pushing for Biden to drop out are inaccurate. (Also, not everyone cared about Biden’s debate performance.) Meanwhile in the punditry and the Biden thread, there was an awful lot of “oh no we will definitely lose if Biden stays on as the candidate”… which came across as pretty doomer if one didn’t happen to agree with that assessment. But fine. Can we make a deal - I’ll believe that you are not retconning things but that I was misunderstanding other folks at the time if you’ll stop misrepresenting my viewpoint? It’s certainly not politically useful to re-litigate that argument when we still have fascists to beat.
posted by eviemath at 7:18 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Kamala Chaos

It's Malcolm Tucker's world, we just live in it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:18 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Oh the media still want Trump to win, they’re just as bamboozled by this shit actually working as the Republicans are. We were still supposed to be mid knife fight with ourselves.
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]

(I can't necessarily speak for the managing editor, but the vast, vast majority of the people writing at the NYTimes do not want Trump to win.)
posted by nobody at 7:21 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

the vast, vast majority of the people writing at the NYTimes do not want Trump to win

That's not what shows up on the front page, though, so something is up.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:23 AM on August 7 [31 favorites]

From the Washington Post: ‘Bringing back the joy’: Walz’s first day keeps Democrats’ buzz going

Also:

It is not yet the end of the day and we are now at the 11th highest day of ActBlue fundraising since September 2020.

The top two days were right after Joe Biden dropped out.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:23 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Bob Mould Celebrates Harris-Walz Ticket With New Song In Progress
posted by gwint at 7:25 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]

(I can't necessarily speak for the managing editor, but the vast, vast majority of the people writing at the NYTimes do not want Trump to win.)

“It May Not Be Good for America, but It’s Damn Good for CBS” - Les Moonves

Obviously not NYT and obviously not a beat writer, but there's a current of the managerial/owner class at all major news media that longs for certain aspects of a Trump victory. Sure, it will suck (more for others rather than them), but it will be great drama, and more importantly, it will cement the importance of the media class to curate the disaster, the danger, the doom. They will be important, and that's a higher priority for them than the health and safety of others.

And if this is not true, I cannot think of any other explanation for their observable behavior of what is being written, featured, discussed, and platformed at these publications.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:30 AM on August 7 [22 favorites]

the vast, vast majority of the people writing at the NYTimes do not want Trump to win.

But, as economist Dean Baker loves to point out regularly on Twitter, the few people at the very top of the NYTimes will make a lot of money from tax cuts if Trump wins.
posted by mediareport at 7:30 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]

And if this is not true, I cannot think of any other explanation for their observable behavior of what is being written, featured, discussed, and platformed at these publications.

See above. Tax cuts.
posted by mediareport at 7:32 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

I guess we can start referring to Trump as Dennis Quaid's asshole now.

The real gold is the comment: "I don’t know why Quaid has been sitting on this for so long."
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:33 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Can we make a deal - I’ll believe that you are not retconning things but that I was misunderstanding other folks at the time if you’ll stop misrepresenting my viewpoint?

eviemath, I don't want to get into a back and forth, but I never claimed to be representing your personal viewpoint. I was addressing arguments made by many users here and pundits elsewhere. No, I will not deny the reality that those arguments were made - I heard them with my own ears/read them with my own eyes. But we can agree to disagree.
posted by coffeecat at 7:34 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

From Amanda Marcotte's Salon piece on the two rallies:

The crowd was so exuberant that Harris and Walz could have done shadow puppets and the place would have erupted. Even before they spoke, DJ Diamond Kuts had the crowd repurposing classic hip-hop lyrics into political chants, with the funniest being "move, Trump, get out the way" rather than the expletive used in the original Ludacris tune. But both brought their A-game. Harris drew ecstatic applause with her promises to end Trump's criminal career. Walz has honed "Minnesota nice" into a deadly rhetorical weapon, both making his desire to help people sincerely felt while also making "weird" burn like Dorothy Parker's ghost had insulted you.

Vance's speech, on the other hand, wasn't just underwhelming but a little uncanny. Despite using room dividers to shrink the space, the campaign could not hide that the crowd felt like a medium-sized wedding, albeit a pathetic one where no one cares for the couple. Vance, perhaps recognizing charisma isn't his strong suit, spoke briefly before bringing up a series of local citizens ready to blame Mexicans for their familial tragedies of drug addiction. He spoke for a couple more minutes, before taking the reporters' questions about cat ladies.
posted by orange swan at 7:40 AM on August 7 [22 favorites]

Bob Mould Celebrates Harris-Walz Ticket With New Song In Progress

Okay, if Bob Mould is going there, I'll see him and I'll raise him New Day Rising.

I'm not going to lie, everything is still a horrible fucked up nightmare, I just biked past the city evicting homeless people from under a bridge and I won't reiterate the unspeakable news from Palestine. But with Biden or Trump we had no chance, no chance at all, and there may be levers for Harris and Walz.
posted by Frowner at 7:45 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

I have annoyingly not had time to watch the rally in full and it'll probably take me days to find the time to watch it (damn 3.5 hour rehearsals every night), but it looked like fun. And despite all of his issues and coming in second, Josh Shapiro seemed enthusiastic and happy as hell. Go figure?
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:49 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

Can we make a deal - I’ll believe that you are not retconning things but that I was misunderstanding other folks at the time if you’ll stop misrepresenting my viewpoint? It’s certainly not politically useful to re-litigate that argument when we still have fascists to beat.

eviemath, these comments that you’re accusing of retconning don’t seem to be about you, specifically, so it feels like your responses portraying them as personal attacks are a bit of a derail here. Might be time to let the past go and join us in the [tentatively pretty awesome] present.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 7:54 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

And, of course, he's barely campaigning himself, which hopefully the press is about to pick up on. It reads like he doesn't have the stamina for it

Also probably he is a bit concerned that the next one won't miss.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:08 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

There were definitely voices rooting for Biden to lose out of spite over Palestine, even knowing that the alternative would be demonstrably worse. Fortunately we found a third option. Everyone should expect the Harris campaign to be slippery and play both sides on the issue (which should at least be better than playing the one side we’ve seen so far). Anyone whose red line is Harris explicitly denouncing Netenyahu or siding with Palestine or even using the word genocide is going to be predictably disappointed. But a change of administration provides an opportunity for a potentially greater policy shift than we’ve seen before. But only after the election. That may not be enough for everyone, but it’s the best chance we’ve had in a long time.
posted by rikschell at 8:09 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

And despite all of his issues and coming in second, Josh Shapiro seemed enthusiastic and happy as hell. Go figure?

Shapiro has every chance to still be a Democratic Rising Star™ in eight years, when Walz will be close to 70 and if he even wants to run for president would face a primary electorate still skittish about old guys. Strong incentives to be a team player.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:10 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

JD Vance in texts with far-right figure: Profane and off-the-cuff

The day after JD Vance was elected to the U.S. Senate in 2022, he received a congratulatory text from Charles Johnson, a blogger and entrepreneur who has zealously promoted right-wing conspiracy theories...

As a newly minted senator, Vance solicited Johnson’s views on many topics, including UFOs (“What is your read”), the Republican Party’s relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (“What is GOP Bibi problem?”) and the death of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein (“Do you think Epstein actually killed himself?”). When Johnson suggested that the senator should work to restrict foreign ownership of U.S. housing, Vance responded with a “thumbs up” emoji.

The mostly friendly conversation with Johnson reflects how Vance gravitates to people on the political fringe — a cohort emboldened by Trump’s insurgent campaign in 2016 and highly active online in the years since. After Trump picked Vance as his running mate on July 15, Johnson has been criticizing his onetime interlocutor and threatening to release their communications. He said he has grown disillusioned with Vance, especially over the senator’s favorable view of the Israeli prime minister, and now supports President Biden and Vice President Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee.

Johnson, 35, has spread fantastical claims about a wide range of politicians and journalists and has made comments casting doubt on the Holocaust. He was banned from Twitter in 2015 for soliciting donations aimed at “taking out” Black Lives Matter activist DeRay Mckesson. He argued at the time that he was referring to journalistic sleuthing, and his account was restored under the platform’s new owner, Elon Musk.

fuckin weirdos man
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:11 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

Is that the same Charles Johnson who once shit on the floor of his own home? Or am I just confused?
posted by grubi at 8:14 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

To bring it back to the good news.... I know a lot of enthused MeFites (including me) are part of this statistic:

The Democrats raised $41 million after Kamala Harris picked Tim Walz to be her running mate.

"Donations appear to have spiked around 12 p.m. ET on Tuesday as the western half of the U.S. woke up to the news of Harris’s choice. Another major increase can be spotted at around 7 p.m. ET. after Walz addressed a crowd during a rally in Philadelphia. "
posted by martin q blank at 8:15 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]

To be fair that first paragraph (UFOs, Bibi, Epstein, foreign ownership of housing) looks like way more normal discourse than you usually see from him. basically looks like a text chain between my liberal siblings.
posted by kensington314 at 8:15 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

even knowing that the alternative would be demonstrably worse.

But we got the alternative? And it seems pretty good so far? I mean, calling for Biden to step down was a gamble, certainly, but I don’t think anyone advocating for it was doing so from a place devoid of hope.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 8:16 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

A question for the political scientists here - what is the basis for the common claim that VP picks don't matter? It seems like it would be a hard thing to accurately measure, given that the picks occur before the campaigns get into high gear.

On another note, I saw a report that Walz and his wife don't own a single stock - no mutual funds, no bonds. Their investments are just their state pensions (from his time in government and both their time as teachers). Obviously they are still plenty comfortable, but it's nice to see regardless.
posted by coffeecat at 8:16 AM on August 7 [25 favorites]

> The last place you want JD Vance---couch humping, ivy league weirdo anti union dork with no amount of normalcy in his body---to go to make him seem like a normal human is SOUTH PHILLY.

oh but no, this was an improvement! it was actually in an event space, not the parking lot of a landscaping company!
posted by Clowder of bats at 8:20 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

I think it was judo. Too many things were timed too perfectly for it to have been accident.

First, there's that "I'm going to be a one-term president" message from the 2020 campaign that every single person remembers having heard but that somehow has deniability so Biden can at the end of his one term say "I never said it; I'm going for all eight years!"

Then they pull that early debate thing and Biden muffs it so completely it's terrifying to one and all. Horrified people go back and rewatch the state of the union address and compare. Stomachs drop. Meanwhile all MAGA dances with glee because their ancient nominee appears inarguably to be the more viable of the two. And the Trump campaign goes all in on the "Biden is feeble" message--for a really long time, thanks to the debate timing, which was something the Democrats wanted.

Then they insist that Biden is going to be the nominee no matter what for a really long time. Biden does a couple of interviews and press conferences insisting he's fine, it was just a summer cold, he's in it for the long haul. All of them fail utterly to mollify the terrified. All of them delight MAGA and inspire the Trump campaign to relax and figure they just need to stay on message about viability vs decrepitude.

"Let's not retcon this. Biden didn't want to drop out. He became wildly unpopular, not only because of his terrible debate performance, but also by his terrible handling of Gaza."
Right--and now he can continue to do the dirty lame duck work, waddling through the Gaza mud and becoming increasingly unpopular while Harris dodges it nimbly, and, unbesmirched, is free to concentrate on the joy of it all for as long as possible.

"I'm VERY pleasantly surprised and I also strongly suspect that Biden took so long to drop out because he was on the phone convincing lots of Dems to commit to supporting Harris before he would do it."
That would totally track.

"I don't think this is very likely. All reports point to Biden being very reluctant to step aside and having required several influential Democrats leaning on him hard to make him do so."
That would also totally track. It needs to be believable so that they can wait until the Republican convention to yank the rug out and present their actual nominee, not just viable but vibrant.

Thus they flatten Trump's convention bump and flip his "I'm the candidate who is slightly younger and slightly less likely to die in a few minutes" juggernaut upside down, wheels spinning uselessly in air, and then... well, whaddaya know! The Harris campaign turns out to be not a hasty, slipshod, last-minute, "dems in disarray" affair at all. It proves to be gorgeous and polished and wildly effective.

It also saves Biden's legacy, even among lifelong Biden loathers. If Harris wins and we are all saved from a fascist dictatorship and it turns out that Biden was in on it all along and helping, I might--might--partially forgive him for throwing Anita Hill under the bus and giving us Clarence Thomas.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:21 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Apologies for this I promise last detail, and I apologize to those who sincerely believe in the positive effects of the national political media but IMO what I see daily is a heavy hand in for the right wing and Trump in particular.

Re: the NYT. If Biden had taken in $550m during his time in office what would the Times do? If Biden had taken in a $10m bribe from Egypt what would the Times do? If Hunter Biden had gotten his boondoggle Real Estate catastrophe bailed out by one of the oil sheikdoms, what would the Times do? If Hunter Biden received $2B from the KSA, what would the Times do? Of Biden had stolen National Security secrets and had his handpicked judge to dismiss the case based on nothing what would the Times do? If there were credible allegations Biden sexually assaulted 13 year olds (and had 43 sexual assault claimed made against him) what would the Times do? If Biden had launched an (unsuccessful) coup and came back and ran again, what would the Times do?

There are a thousand more examples of the Times acting strongly in favor of Trump. I don’t know if it starts from being hoodwinked by the right wings relentless ‘liberal media’ bullshit, being driven by the clicks equals $$$ thing (see Moonves quote referenced above), ownership excitement over yet another sweet sweet tax cut, a pro-oligarchic ethos, a distain for actual people’s lives (witness their positions of Walz politically questionable policies of…. Feeding hungry children (WTF !!!) - seriously is the fucking culture war the ONLY thing to cover,?or their authoritarian intrigued view of an orbanization of this country. Probably all of the above.

Thru its political desk the NYT is a force for the bad in America. It’s Nepo-baby oligarch run will never be any different. Yup a real meritocracy when a 4th generation failson on controls the most important news organ in the world. Turn it into a non profit or employee owned. Otherwise it stays a course for bad (I’m tempted to say evil, but they aren’t quite there yet).

Damn I’ve droned on WAY too much on this and horribly derailed this glorious thread. And I’m bumming out what should be an awesome day!. I apologize and will now self block any further participation. But Harris Walz!!!. Hell yea!!!! They (and all of us) are going to win.
posted by WatTylerJr at 8:24 AM on August 7 [29 favorites]

think the IVF story is a great one and hopefully his family is good with him hammering on it. I know so many families who’ve struggled with fertility issues, I think really to show that the republicans really don’t care about families

It also shows how out of touch they are - I promise that the evangelical base contains a LOT of women who are anti abortion because they have struggled deeply with fertility and have been adopting as their alternative; attacks on how infertile people handle their business aren’t going to go over well.

In other news, veteran internet has gone CRAZY over Walz, like genuine bananas. He’s been involved with veteran issues and movements for about twenty years; this isn’t just that he IS a vet, he’s one that’s trusted to actually give a shit.
posted by corb at 8:26 AM on August 7 [57 favorites]

It's interesting to see the Republicans in such disarray, they literally have no clue what to do, so they're falling back on what has worked before. But it doesn't work now, because Kamala and the Coach are very authentic and they're not afraid to be who they are and what they believe in. "Yeah my family used government 'handouts' after the primary breadwinner passed away, so what, they helped us get out of that situation."

That Kamala Chaos sign that was a behind Vance at one of his rallies just screams unmanaged amateurism. It like the person who approved it was a friend of someone and has no business having decision making ability.

I'm sure several people on the Republican side were like "Huh, one put up a sign with the prominent name of our opponent?" But no one had the guts, power, or brains to change it. Not even Vance. Either no one can make a move without approval of someone higher up (Trump?) or they're so wrapped up in their own bubble they have no clue how they're coming off.

Screaming matches behind closed doors and intense text exchanges are probably occurring among Republicans, with the smart people repeatedly yelling "WTF", but they're not being listened to.

Oh well, I hope the Dems take full advantage of that lull and keep keeping on.

Anyway, here's another TikTok of how awesome and joyful Kamala is, as she talks about hard it will be to change things, but it'll be worth it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:26 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

What’s up is that Trump is normally a daily fountain of what, in any previous year, would have been the biggest and most bizarre story of the whole election cycle. So they’re addicted. Even Harris/Walz will be methodone to Trump’s heroin.

Yeah, and when 40+% of the country is voting for him, they're not going to let themselves quite institutionally recognize that he is a terrible abomination who doesn't deserve (nearly) the same reaction-process that has always driven their story decisions (though they do now allow the headlines to point out when something's a lie). So from a left/truth/decency perspective, it often risks coming off as normalizing him, but the articles are chock full of scathing details about how unfit for office he is. That's the main thrust of the reporting (and that's, quite obviously, the main thrust of what he generates for them to report on).

But also: if they really wanted Trump to win, why don't they have even a single op-ed writer on staff to go ahead and advocate for that.

(That said, I appreciate the value of everyone keeping up pressure from the left, even when I think it's scathing from not quite the right angle, as counter-balance to the ages-old "liberal media" myth, but when you occasionally have people saying things like (in older threads, not this one) "I don't know who I hate more, Trump or the NYTimes," something's gone way off the rails.)
posted by nobody at 8:28 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

coffeecat: A question for the political scientists here - what is the basis for the common claim that VP picks don't matter?

I think the VP pick is like the first round of Chopped: you can't secure a win with it, but you 100% can lose with it.
posted by tzikeh at 8:29 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

Ezra Klein's podcast today had a nice bit of praise for Walz later followed by a bit of analysis that I thought was interesting. First, the praise:

I try to avoid doing it [interviewing politicians] because politicians are terrible to interview. And Walz is one of the five best politicians I’ve ever interviewed because he actually thinks aloud. He is responding to you in the moment in a genuine conversational way. You can always tell with politicians this buffering happening in their heads. You ask a question, and this program fires up really fast. It says, what are all the ways I could answer this wrong? And what is my message here supposed to actually be?

And Walz, you could feel the conversation actually happening. It was like talking to a normal person, which is one reason he’s so effective on TV.

And further down, the analysis on what the Tim Kaine comparison is wrong:

There’s a certain segment of liberal-leaning pundits or campaign strategists act like attention is not a thing, who act like that whole mediating layer between what a candidate says and how they get heard doesn’t exist, and that the only thing that really matters are their sort of demographic characteristics, the state they are from, the kinds of policy positions they take. But that’s not true at all.

To compare it to Tim Kaine is to just miss the entire field on which Harris is currently thinking about playing, which is a field, by the way, that Joe Biden ceded to Donald Trump, which is a field of attention. Joe Biden’s theory in 2020 and then again in 2024 was that the election should be about Donald Trump. In 2020, when Donald Trump was the unpopular incumbent president, that was a theory that benefited Joe Biden hugely. Donald Trump wanted the election to be about Donald Trump. Joe Biden wanted it to be about Donald Trump. The election was about Donald Trump, and Donald Trump lost.

In 2024, when Biden’s communication skills had deteriorated, and he was the unpopular incumbent president, making the election about Donald Trump, which was always the theory of the Biden campaign was failing. In part, it wasn’t working because Biden’s age had made the election too much about Biden’s own competence. But also people had become somewhat nostalgic — I think wrongly, but nevertheless — for Donald Trump’s economy, for a time before the war in Gaza, a time before the war in Ukraine. And Trump’s existence was not repelling people in the way that strategy required him to do.

Harris, from the second she became the clear nominee, some intangible energy emerged around her, to the extent that Republicans were so shocked by this vibe shift. ...It has become harder and harder for Trump to get a word in edge-wise. The main ways that Trump and Vance are breaking through are when they say outrageous, unpopular things, which, by the way, was predictable.

It is what Donald Trump always does when he can’t break through into the media. He gets crazier and crazier until people begin to report on him again, which is an excellent strategy for the Harris campaign, but so they have begun dominating attentionally. And they have picked a vice-presidential candidate who is able to help them do that, a vice presidential candidate with a very, very clear capability to dominate in the media. Now whether or not that works all the way through, I don’t know, but that is the theory here. That was not the Tim Kaine theory.

posted by coffeecat at 8:30 AM on August 7 [25 favorites]

nobody: when you occasionally have people saying things like (in older threads, not this one) "I don't know who I hate more, Trump or the NYTimes," something's gone way off the rails.)

Yes -- that would be The New York Times.
posted by tzikeh at 8:32 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

It's also just such a bizarre and toothless line of attack.

Another MeFite used the term "lazy insults" to describe what I think of as one third of MAGA's total output, along with "Complaining about everything all the time" and "Blaming someone else".

That's really all that got. Weird.
posted by mikelieman at 8:32 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Is that the same Charles Johnson who once shit on the floor of his own home? Or am I just confused?

Yes that is. He also ratted out his own Signal chat with Vance, a secure line of communication being only as trustworthy as the person at the end of it and both ends of this communication being very online Nazis, who as a group love ratfucking each other.

It also highlights a key difference between Vance and Trump - Trump loves attention from online Nazis and he loves giving it back but he isn’t one himself - Vance is totally an online Nazi, he is fully immersed in those waters.

Also means that we have a VP candidate who is a massive antisemite and it’s getting zero attention, which would be odd most times but is especially odd now.

On the other hand it inclines him to be a weirdo who has no idea how to be normal around non-Nazis, and seeing him skewered on that. Turns out calling out Nazis on their weirdness is a devestating line of attack on them.

Nazi is not really metaphorical here BTW. These people are all at minimum two steps away from someone who admires Hitler and has opinions on the best translation of Mein Kampf.
posted by Artw at 8:33 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

Even if the word "chaos" had not been obscured by the crowd at Vance's rally, it is still not a good look for the Trump/Vance campaign. It reminds me of those Pepsi ads from the 1980s in which Coke and Pepsi robots fought each other, but the thing is, the Pepsi ads had their competitor's name and logo in them, while the Coke ads were about how great Coke tastes. That's because Coke was the better-selling beverage. If you need your opponent's name displayed at your own rally, that is not a good sign* for your campaign.

*sorry not sorry
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:34 AM on August 7 [17 favorites]

Oh, I saw something somewhere in the middle of the night that I wish I had saved because it was a really good take: Tim Wallz is tonic masculinity. It soothes and heals and gets rid of toxins.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:35 AM on August 7 [52 favorites]

ut also: if they really wanted Trump to win, why don't they have even a single op-ed writer on staff to go ahead and advocate for that.

Because they need Jamelle Bouie for cover.
posted by Artw at 8:35 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Yesterday I mentioned in this thread that I called my mother who literally lives without internet in the woods to tell her the VP pick and she responded "Who?"

She just phoned me after going to the library this morning. She couldn't stop gushing about Walz and thought he was absolutely what the ticket needed. Too bad she's not in a swing state, but I be there are more of her out there in the pivotal areas.
posted by Captaintripps at 8:37 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Nazi is not really metaphorical here BTW. These people are all at minimum two steps away from someone who admires Hitler and has opinions on the best translation of Mein Kampf.

Donald Trump's history with Adolf Hitler and his Nazi writings
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:41 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

The title of the NYT article I referenced above (with some outrage) is titled "Kamala Harris and ‘Coach Walz’ ease into their new partnership." I can't get a gift link but here are some of the quotes that drove me crazy (there were some positive things in the article about his speech but the analysis of his demeanor I found very patronizing). Granted all of this might be true but instead of focusing primarily on issues it seemed like a style analysis to me. Walz seemed super excited, understandably, but at no time did he seem flustered or rumpled:

He waved, with big flapping hands, at the ecstatic crowd. He bowed. He bowed again. He stood behind Ms. Harris as she launched into her fledgling presidential stump speech. He bobbed and grinned. He played with his ear and twiddled his thumbs.

Ms. Harris, more accustomed to the political choreography of waiting for someone else to finish talking, smiled, her hands clasped. “That’s right,” she said repeatedly. “That’s right.”

Mr. Walz, who is broad-shouldered, is often pictured in T-shirts, white hair slightly rumpled, if not hidden under a camo hat. Even when he wears a jacket and tie, he tends to look like, well, a flustered high school football coach, red-faced, as if he is about to draw up a play on a dry-erase board.

At the end of the evening, Ms. Harris and Mr. Walz were joined onstage by their spouses. Stepping back from the lectern, Mr. Walz’s arms were once again untethered, reaching for the skies in an effusive political gesture, the double-arm wave. He shook his wife’s hand, thought better of it, and pulled her in for a hug.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:43 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

okay though the walz launch went as well as possible but the “coach walz” thing is the detail i can’t stop thinking about. marketing genius. like, unparalleled marketing genius.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:44 AM on August 7 [17 favorites]

One thing I loved about the rally was the look Harris had on her face when Walz was speaking.

You could almost hear her thinking "I made the right choice."
posted by ishmael at 8:46 AM on August 7 [16 favorites]

Anyway, with the whole NYT thing, I expect — if Trump can be kept out of office and we don't succumb to a dictatorship that ends the notion of independent media — there will a future mea culpa in the form of an award-winning documentary like Page One, where the remaining journalists had to apologize for colleagues like Judith Miller pushing the Iraq War, despite it being based on lies. This time, there will be some scapegoat held up for pushing Trump. Hopefully David Brooks, whatever his real position might be.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:47 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

I can't get a gift link
Here: Kamala Harris and ‘Coach Walz’ Ease Into Their New Partnership (at archive.ph)
posted by pracowity at 8:48 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

bluesky43 - I read that as a piece on the fundamental humanity of both candidates. I saw it as pretty adoring and definitely breaking down the "politicians are nothing like real people" narrative that I think is so corrosive in our politics. There are plenty of articles about the speech, I think there is room for one which recognizes the puppy dog energy of it all. I watched it live, I'm coming to really love Walz, and even I thought he looked scattered and jumpy behind Harris during her speech. Which is okay, and human, an fun! It's hardly a hit piece to note it.

So, I see why some might not like this type of coverage, I don't think it represents an attempt to weight the electorate against this ticket. If anything I think it is helpful.
posted by meinvt at 8:49 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

You could almost hear her thinking "I made the right choice."
Yes- it was SO GOOD. I said the same. :D

EDIT: NOT Apologizing for effusive use of emojis in this amazing moment.
posted by Glinn at 8:50 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

As a Brit watching the whole thing from the outside, how is the military angle being played? The MAGA types seem to be going heavy on the 'Stolen valor' story and pitching Vance as having actual credentials as a former Marine. Is that kind of stuff likely to play at all well to on-the-fencers?
posted by freya_lamb at 8:51 AM on August 7

I went to my first campaign event yesterday, and the turnout was great for a Tuesday morning. Mostly Dem stalwarts, but also a few who were there explicitly for Harris. I go knocking doors on Saturday and I’m really excited. You can feel the enthusiasm and the momentum in a way I haven’t felt since 2008. I think we have a good shot at overperforming and making a blue wave happen.
posted by rikschell at 8:52 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

One of the guys from Pod Save America said recently that the New York Times treats Democrats like the protagonist of the narrative and Republicans like a force of nature. I think there is some truth to that (and also some truth to the idea that the NYT is run by people who would be happier with a Republican tax cut, and some truth to the idea that a Trump administration is good for the news media even if it's bad for the country.)

It's constant moderate concern trolling, like if you wanted the Democrats to succeed but were convinced that they needed to be held to account and criticized for everything they did wrong. It's not dissimilar to what a lot of us on Metafilter spend a lot of time saying - We want the Democrats to win, so why are they making such bad choices? - except that the NYT is coming from a place that's more neoliberal and wedded to ideas about optics that are not really true except to the extent that they become true by being repeated by pundits eighty thousand times.
posted by Jeanne at 8:53 AM on August 7 [22 favorites]

A question for the political scientists here - what is the basis for the common claim that VP picks don't matter? It seems like it would be a hard thing to accurately measure

Yeah, coffee cat, the conflicting results in a couple of studies linked by Justinian in the previous thread seem to support the idea that it's hard to measure. The WaPo article from 2016 pushes back on previous received wisdom that VP home state doesn't really matter; the PhD students who did that study say they found 2-3 percentage points difference, which is bigger than the other studies linked. I'm guessing small sample size also plays a role in the difficulty, but I'm not a statistician.

Re: Kaine, the context was a heated battle between Sanders and Clinton for the nomination; it was tough for Sanders supporters to *not* feel slighted when the more conservative Dem chose another conservative Dem as VP. This Politico article captures some of the feelings from that moment. Kaine was not a uniting choice.
posted by mediareport at 8:53 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Trump loves attention from online Nazis and he loves giving it back but he isn’t one himself - Vance is totally an online Nazi, he is fully immersed in those waters.

I'm not so sure we can say with certainty that Trump isn't an offline Nazi (via his probably-was-at-that-Long-Island-KKK-rally dad), but here's JD Vance Just Blurbed a Book Arguing That Progressives Are Subhuman (NYTimes; archive link):

The word “fascist” gets thrown around a lot in politics, but it’s hard to find a more apt one for “Unhumans,” which came out last month. The book argues that leftists don’t deserve the status of human beings — that they are, as the title says, unhumans — and that they are waging a shadow war against all that is good and decent, which will end in apocalyptic slaughter if they are not stopped. “As they are opposed to humanity itself, they place themselves outside of the category completely, in an entirely new misery-driven subdivision, the unhuman,” write Posobiec and Lisec.

posted by nobody at 8:54 AM on August 7 [20 favorites]

I said a couple of times he was likely not dropping out without an ironclad guarantee that it was going to be Harris.

I have heard several people suggest this, but I don't see any reason to think it is so. Biden's aides said he didn't decide to step down until very shortly before the announcement. There are consistent reports that he resisted calls from numerous Democrats to step down, and that it caused a rift qith Pelosi and Obama. The idea this was the final stroke of a master plan is more comforting than it being the result of Biden finally surrendering to the rest of the party, but the latter seems much more in line with the information we have.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:55 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

I personally find the idea that the party had already, to some extent, pre-organized around Harris, to be more comforting, actually.
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:58 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, Tim Walz unleashes hell on Earth

Above the entrance was carved “‘Ope!’ With Abandon, All Ye Who Enter Here” which seemed to be some sort of Midwestern thing. Donald Trump and JD Vance quailed as Virgil led them inside.

The outside circle, or limbo, was awful enough. There were lots of people practicing religious tolerance. Not just of Christianity, but also of other religions, which seemed like too much tolerance.

In the first circle, some children who could have been happily performing some kind of dangerous, ill-compensated labor were attending school and eating free breakfasts and lunches. All those tiny hands that could have been usefully plunging into machines, instead performing arithmetic and clutching nourishing sandwiches! What country was this? Donald Trump shielded his eyes as he passed.

posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 AM on August 7 [48 favorites]

I think Biden had a plan at least in that final weekend, but that's different from Democrats as a whole having a plan. From all the reporting that's been done on how the announcement and Harris's subsequent consolidation went down, it seems like it was a matter of him doing what he could to give her a head start in securing support from the rest of the party and make her the obvious heir in public, and her capitalizing expertly on that, rather than the whole sequence of dominos being choreographed in advance.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:00 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

The MAGA types seem to be going heavy on the 'Stolen valor' story and pitching Vance as having actual credentials as a former Marine.

As mentioned above, I think actual vets love Walz because he's active in that community and a known advocate.

I think the "stolen valor" narrative might bite republicans in the ass, because Vance's deployment was to a public affairs unit.
posted by ishmael at 9:02 AM on August 7 [24 favorites]

Tim Walz is a teacher. A pretty good one by all accounts. And maybe we need a bit more of those skills in the White House.

Trudeau got decent reviews from his former students too. Though, it's a favourite dig at him to call him a "substitute drama teacher"---he did, but he regularly taught math and French.

I think however it points to one of his greatest strengths. He's famously good in person taking even questions in the harshest of language. His skills in managing the opposition too come from a place of having experience with dealing with not entirely friendly crowds.

Trudeau has many issues as a leader, but he's unmatched in the current generation of Canadian politicians in his ability to connect with people, particularly one-on-one.

Lots of experience as a HS teacher in schools that had students with problems. I see that as a pretty big plus, both in terms of character and ability.
posted by bonehead at 9:05 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

I personally find the idea that the party had already, to some extent, pre-organized around Harris, to be more comforting, actually.
They would have to have done some preparatory organization, even if the preferred plan was Biden. They would need to have a game plan in place just from a practical standpoint, in case Biden were to become ineligible for whatever reason. This must be the case with every incumbent, no?
posted by Don Pepino at 9:05 AM on August 7

I think the "stolen valor" narrative might bite republicans in the ass, because Vance's deployment was to a public affairs unit.

I think it would also bite them in the ass because hundreds of thousands of people have served in the reserves without being deployed over the last 40 years. So in effect you're calling all of those potential voters not real soldiers. It's silly and stupid.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:08 AM on August 7 [28 favorites]

The MAGA types seem to be going heavy on the 'Stolen valor' story and pitching Vance as having actual credentials as a former Marine.

The thing is, the Harris campaign is (wisely) not pitching Walz as a “hero” (which would, IMO, be Stolen Valor), they’re pitching him as a sergeant major . Which is exactly the right pitch for a VP to appeal to vets. A sergeant major is the guy who gets shit done behind the scenes when the officer is off with their head in the clouds (and he’s DEFINITELY the guy who calls some idiot a couchfucker, which the commander is too couth to do). He’s the guy who goes to all the meetings and does the logistical stuff, the guy who enforces the nitty gritty rules. You don’t walk on sergeant major’s grass; you don’t show up sweaty to sergeant major’s chow hall. But he’s also the guy who tells the pregnant 22 year old that a captain one company over is getting rid of their furniture set and they can have it for free, or that they are taking someone off the deployment list and assigning them to another company to work out their custody shit.

Walz has *big* sergeant major energy; who the fuck cares that he never deployed? It’s not like you expect the sergeant major next to you in a firefight.
posted by corb at 9:09 AM on August 7 [96 favorites]

I said a couple of times he was likely not dropping out without an ironclad guarantee that it was going to be Harris. He knew full well that if the nomination became a free for all,

Before Biden stepped down but while it was looking increasingly like he should, I had a long talk with friend (generally better informed politically than I) who I found surprisingly calm on the matter. "That's because I'm resigned," he said. "Either Biden steps down and Harris takes over, or the Dems (and probably the world) are utterly f***ed. It's really that simple. There's only one path that doesn't lead to annihilation, and it's the obvious one. Go with the person you chose to be #2 back in 2020. Not because they were a woman and sorta not white and blah-blah-blah, checked off a lotta DEI boxes, but because she was the BEST person to have in that spot, she was good to go in terms taking on maybe the most important job on the planet. Anything else, and the party will divide as various egos leap to the fore and the enemy will exploit the divisions ... " and so on.

So did Biden make the demand or did it just happen anyway? I'm sure we'll get the truth of it in time. But for now, I'm just profoundly glad we've got what we've got ... as opposed to what we had long ago and far away ... seventeen days ago.
posted by philip-random at 9:11 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]

I think it more likely that Harris had a strategy to reach out to constituent groups, and did so immediately with remarkable effectiveness. The party elite never had a chance to deploy their "let's have an open convention" bullshit. The wave was just unrelenting and unstoppable.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:18 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

"Tim Walz is the Dad that many of us have lost to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News"

Damn if that isn't true. I have an arm's length relationship with my own dad because of right wing media.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:19 AM on August 7 [24 favorites]

Walz has *big* sergeant major energy; who the fuck cares that he never deployed? It’s not like you expect the sergeant major next to you in a firefight.

And whether he was deployed or not, he got severe inner ear damage from being in the artillery, and had to get surgery for that. It's part of what made him such a big advocate for healthcare. He has a great story about hearing his daughter sing for the first time after his surgery.
posted by ishmael at 9:23 AM on August 7 [32 favorites]

From all the reporting that's been done on how the announcement and Harris's subsequent consolidation went down, it seems like it was a matter of him doing what he could to give her a head start in securing support from the rest of the party and make her the obvious heir in public, and her capitalizing expertly on that, rather than the whole sequence of dominos being choreographed in advance.

And earlier: that it caused a rift with Pelosi and Obama. The idea this was the final stroke of a master plan is more comforting than it being the result of Biden finally surrendering to the rest of the party, but the latter seems much more in line with the information we have.

Make of this what you will but based on what I know and read, the above is my read (and I did in fact think Biden was going to win but only in the most thinnest of margins and in ways that will cause the collapse of a moral firewall made up for related stakeholders that will not be able to handle subsequent fascist tests of public waters, the way we're seeing now with a UK Labour that absolutely cannot handle this wave of Islamophobic and anti-immigrant fascist violence. And if he technically couldn't get the EC his way, the moral firewall collapse will still happen anyway) and strengthened by little pieces like this Pelosi bit (CNN) saying that she's not spoken to Biden since he dropped out.

The Dems didn't plan this. Maybe Biden and Harris somewhat did but it's worth revisiting the chain of events and who's the proxy for which camp who was speaking out. It's to her credit (and Pelosi too once she could see the wind shift) that Harris got to work immediately on the phones etc to secure the support, and then to recall, who held out their public support until it was unavoidable.
posted by cendawanita at 9:25 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

Day 2: still just immensely relieved. So much relief. Also hope, but really I think it's mostly relief. I feel like I keep getting mental glimpses of the alternate timeline where Harris picked Shapiro and it is Bad. Dems in Disarray, internet arguments everywhere, doom scrolling, smug punditry with commentators' eyes alight with the prospect of reporting on our inevitable slide into fascism etc etc and then I remember that we are not in that timeline! Everywhere I looked online (admittedly not that many places, but enough!) was full of joy! The Philadelphia rally was great!

And we just have to keep it up for about three months! Honestly, the shorter timeline seems like it can only be a net positive? Not that the past two weeks and change have felt short. They have in fact felt like 85 years. Fingers crossed for the resumption of the normal perception of time.
posted by yasaman at 9:25 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

History's just a bunch of crazy shit that happened.
posted by mazola at 9:26 AM on August 7 [23 favorites]

and the future is whatever happens next
posted by philip-random at 9:28 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

"the whole sequence of dominos being choreographed in advance."
What's wrong with running some domino scenarios ahead of time? If they're not gaming things out in advance and trying to anticipate every exigency and strategizing what ifs, then what are they doing with their time? The sensible thing would be to lay out several domino sequences in advance and then kick off whichever sequence fits the situation on the ground. "If they do this thing, we'll do this thing to counteract their thing," or "if this happens, then we'll do this." And, key, "if X happens, we'd better be ready to do Y, therefore here is a packet of money allocated for Y, now you, you, and you get to work on Y and report back regularly." Anything else would be idiotic.

"Go with the person you chose to be #2 back in 2020. Not because they were a woman and sorta not white and blah-blah-blah, checked off a lotta DEI boxes, but because she was the BEST person to have in that spot, she was good to go in terms taking on maybe the most important job on the planet."
That, and that we elected her seems kind of important.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:28 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Before Biden stepped down but while it was looking increasingly like he should, I had a long talk with friend (generally better informed politically than I) who I found surprisingly calm on the matter. "That's because I'm resigned," he said. "Either Biden steps down and Harris takes over, or the Dems (and probably the world) are utterly f***ed. It's really that simple. There's only one path that doesn't lead to annihilation, and it's the obvious one.

A fun excercise is to travel back to, say, 2020 or even a month ago and see how people who were saying Biden is losing his marbles were treated!
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:28 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

JD Vance Just Blurbed a Book Arguing That Progressives Are Subhuman

Like Project 2025 they are trying to hide this one,this time by pushing back publication to post election, but the cat is out of the bag and there’s no takebacks.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

To add to the fast moving thread and my earlier point: It's to her credit (and Pelosi too once she could see the wind shift) that Harris got to work immediately on the phones etc to secure the support, and then to recall, who held out their public support until it was unavoidable

In fact, I credit for Harris a lot for her savvy. You don't start on the work this adroitly if you haven't been prepared even as you play the diplomatic line of not going against your boss/the Pres/presumptive nominee. And I genuinely credit also voices pushing from the left and/or pushing for Biden to leave that had been mentioning Harris for months. That her team was savvy enough to either corrall the conversation or take stock on where the waves were is to their absolute credit, because the vibes were rancid with too much pushback out of fear or other sentiments as previously covered, which really obscured the odds if you're a more risk-averse potential nom. I saw the same tenor with the Shapiro conversation too.
posted by cendawanita at 9:34 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

see how people who were saying Biden is losing his marbles were treated!

Yeah, that's still a crappy and false thing to say.

Biden was losing his energy (and maybe his ability to compensate for his stutter). He did a selfless thing in stepping down, and an astute thing in positioning Harris to replace him.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:35 AM on August 7 [55 favorites]

The Republicans proved with Kerry that they could successfully convince their voters military service didn't actually matter if you weren't part of the right party.

For a Republican candidate who is a vet military service is something they will hold up as being of ultimate importance and use to argue that the Democratic candidate isn't sufficiently patriotic.

For a Republican who is not a vet military service will be presented as of no interest or value at all, and if their opponent is a vet they have proven they can twist that service to make them out as cowards.

So Walz being a vet is a known factor. The Republicans will claim he's a secret coward and his military service is proof of his cowardice, and this will make no particular difference to anyone.

People inclined to vote Republican will agree his time in the military was either unimportant or proof of his cowardice, people not inclined to vote Republican generally don't actually care if a candidate is a vet or not.
posted by sotonohito at 9:37 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

What's wrong with running some domino scenarios ahead of time?

Nothing, but my point is that what we saw happen seems to have been the preferred scenario of Biden and Harris's teams in particular, and not what the people who were most active in pushing him to drop out were planning to have happen.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:39 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Remember when Trump actively made fun of Gold Star families? I don’t think he’s going to try that again.
posted by rikschell at 9:40 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

This is just my OCD talking, but I misspoke above.

My wish is for Katie Porter and Stacey Abrams to get prominent cabinet positions.

Katie Taylor is an excellent, excellent Irish boxer.
posted by ishmael at 9:43 AM on August 7 [24 favorites]

For a Republican who is not a vet military service will be presented as of no interest or value at all, and if their opponent is a vet they have proven they can twist that service to make them out as cowards.

Even if that opponent is a revered Republican war hero.
posted by The Bellman at 9:43 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Yeah I maintain we lucked the fuck out and there was no plan here just people making the best of circumstances… which, credit where it is due, they actually have and it’s been good decision making all the way down the line since then in a way that is almost spooky and unexpected in democrats. The only times I’ve seen them move like this before is to do things I did not want them to do (like install Biden in the first place) so it’s shocking seeing it employed towards a desirable outcome. Still waiting for a heel turn and fuck ups TBH.
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Via nj.com: Harris surges among independents

In a new poll released Tuesday night, Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee, has taken an enormous lead on former president Donald Trump among independent voters.

Harris is up nine points with that group (53%-44%) after being down 14 points with them when she launched her campaign just two weeks ago.

In early July, Trump was beating President Joe Biden by four points with independents.

posted by darkstar at 9:46 AM on August 7 [24 favorites]

corb already described the sergeant major factor, but it's worth emphasizing: non-commissioned officers are the real backbone of the Army, and a sergeant major is near the top of that list.

Any Marine gets respect, but a SGTMAJ gets respect tinged with admiration. (Like, no one makes jokes about sergeant majors eating crayons...)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:49 AM on August 7 [23 favorites]

Harris is up nine points with that group (53%-44%) after being down 14 points with them when she launched her campaign just two weeks ago.

I hate polls and dislike pollsters but I want to believe.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:51 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

Yeah, that's still a crappy and false thing to say.

Biden was losing his energy (and maybe his ability to compensate for his stutter). He did a selfless thing in stepping down, and an astute thing in positioning Harris to replace him.

Biden was worse off than that, and it was obvious it was going to be a problem four years ago. Low energy and a stutter don't result in rambling, fumbling answers to easy questions , and calling your VP Trump and Zelensky, Putin.

Biden had to have his armed twisted hard to step down. Whether it was for the good of the country or to spare himself the humiliation of an inevitable defeat by Donald Trump is something I couldn't say.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:52 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

As far as I can see nobody gives a shit about his military career whatsoever, unless I am missing anything.

They are trying to swift-boat him right now.

Basically, by leaving the service at the 24-year mark instead of going with his unit to Iraq, he is a coward that left them in their time of need. At least on Reddit, this is getting no traction, even on r/Conservative. 24 years is 4 years after the requirement for retirement, and his stated reason for retiring (pursuing a political career) is exactly what he did. As others have mentioned above, they're trying to use all the attacks that worked before (and ratfucking is one of their oldest tactics), but it's not working.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:52 AM on August 7 [39 favorites]

Harris is up nine points with that group (53%-44%) after being down 14 points with them when she launched her campaign just two weeks ago.

I hate polls and dislike pollsters but I want to believe.

After 2016, I don't really trust presidential poll results anymore, but I may consider trusting poll trends. And the trends are encouraging. And we're still two weeks away from the Democratic National Convention.
posted by gwint at 9:58 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

The book argues that leftists don’t deserve the status of human beings — that they are, as the title says, unhumans

This shocks me not at all. Women have always been unhuman, anyone who's "different" has always been unhuman.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

I don't know why the Dems scheduled the convention soooo late this cycle, but it turned out to be a great idea.
posted by rikschell at 10:04 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Re: Walz vs. Shapiro: I had no dog in that fight. I had seen only 1 brief clip of Walz (the original "weird" interview), and none of Shapiro. I wasn't inclined to subject the Dem VP nominee to an ideological litmus test; the VP's influence on administration policy is usually not that significant.

But I watched much of the Philadelphia rally yesterday, including Walz' speech and a good chunk of Shapiro's opening. And now I'm very glad Harris went with Walz, not Shapiro.

Shapiro just has a slickness, a slightly try-hard, phony quality that reminds me of Gavin Newsom. Walz comes across as much more authentic and down to earth. And he's already proven he's a great communicator and attack dog.

As it happens, I like Walz better than Shapiro on an ideological level. But that's just gravy.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:05 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

regarding the derail about Biden doing 5D chess to secure the nom for Harris before stepping away:

So did Biden make the demand or did it just happen anyway? I'm sure we'll get the truth of it in time.

you have the truth of it now, written the day that he resigned in an article in Politico. Biden was shown polling by his most trusted advisors that he had no path to victory. The polls had cratered for him. The choice was then maybe turn it over to Harris or stay committed out of pride and be wholly responsible for a likely Democratic landslide defeat. He was also told by Pelosi and Schumer that they could do this the easy way and let him leave with dignity, or do it the hard way and start undermining him, and he had a week to decide, and that week was almost up.

The biggest lever that Biden had to pull was to put out that endorsement of Harris as soon as possible to nip talk of an open convention in the bud. He did that, and maybe he also did some calls to various folks encouraging them to put their weight behind Harris, but as reassuring as it may be to think that various Democratic leaders have all of these stratagems mapped out, the reality is far messier and far simpler than all of that.

This was not a done deal. It was a gamble, and it paid off beyond anyone's plans.
posted by bl1nk at 10:05 AM on August 7 [43 favorites]

The Harris Cabinet (Axios speculates)
posted by box at 10:07 AM on August 7

A couple of scattered thoughts:

1. Especially in this our modern age, I think each presidential race truly is a different animal, such that comparisons between even immediately adjacent ones can easily become more of an intellectual exercise than a useful barometer of what's to come. So, like, on paper, the Harris/Walz ticket facing down Trump can look a lot like 2016 redux (i.e. Woman/Inoffensive White Guy vs. Chaotic Evil Misogynist) but it's really not the same thing.

Hillary Clinton was certainly one of the hardest-working people to ever run for President in my lifetime, as well as one of the biggest policy wonks to do so, but she came into the general election with 25 years worth of general misogynistic baggage, in addition to wearing her vote for the Iraq war around her neck, and bloodied from a rough primary fight against Bernie Sanders that divided the base pretty badly. Harris's ascension post-Biden-dropout, OTOH, has unified the party in ways previously not thought possible. She's got name recognition and legitimacy but has been largely ignored by the Right until these past few weeks, who are now trying to frantically field-test attacks on her with 90 days left to go.

Additionally, while Clinton was more unflappable in the face of everything about the 2016 campaign than one could expect of almost anyone, she wasn't completely unflappable, and quintessential bully that he is, Trump could instinctively chisel into any and every crack that she started to show. Kamala Harris, however, seems like someone who has long-since heard every racist and misogynistic thing that someone could throw at her and has learned to genuinely laugh it off. She appears genuinely unflappable, at least in the face of Trump's tactics. This may prove to be untrue, but the Trump campaign doesn't have a lot of time left to figure it out.

Similarly, yeah, VP picks probably usually don't mean much. Seems tough to really gauge, but we don't tend to think of Gore vs. Kemp or Cheney vs. Edwards. This year, however, there was bound to be a lot of attention around Trump's pick, since he's such a narcissist that it's a morbidly fascinating question in any case, plus he was such a frontrunner at that moment that it seemed doubly important, and let's not forget that he sent a mob to try to kill his last VP. Now, JD Vance is doing the brunt of the actual campaign trail stuff, and getting a lot of media attention, almost all of it negative, and with Harris becoming the presumptive nominee in late July and the official nominee in early August, with an accelerated and pretty public, widely-covered Veepstakes, ending with a choice that got the fundraising spiking and caused an internet love-fest, well... as I said, this year is different. The VP choices might still not make a monumental amount of difference, but I'm pretty sure they'll make more of a difference this time than we're used to.

Walz and Kaine share more similarities than just their first name, but Kaine came across as "insert running mate here," like that way that young adult novels will make their protagonists intentionally blank slates for readers to project themselves onto. Or perhaps more accurately like a blandly handsome no-name actor playing a romantic lead against an A-list actress. There was never any doubt who the star of the 2016 democratic campaign was. Walz, in contrast, has a huge personality, and it's an inherently very lovable one. He's here to back up Harris, make no mistake, but they are already coming across as partners in this endeavor.

2. As for the NYT and other media outlets going hard on dems and soft on Trump. I'm sure that tax cuts play a part, yes, but in my opinion the real thing here is that the Pundits want to think of themselves as Gatekeepers, and for a long time the Democrats have allowed them that role. Think of them as, like, Pitchfork to the 2000s indie music scene. There was a lot of music out there that didn't give a rat's ass what Pitchfork had to say about it, and a lot that cared very deeply, and while Pitchfork would cover most of it to some degree, they were bound to spend the most ink on artists which wanted to please them. Since the GOP is going to hate on the NYT regardless of that they say about them, but Dems have historically paid a lot of heed to them, that's where the NYT is bound to flex their muscles. Especially with Joe Kahn running his own vendettas over there and going all-in on stupid pissing contests.

But public tastes change, and sometimes the Pitchforks of the world have to either play catch-up or slide into irrelevance, and I think that's the sea-change we're about to see with major media outlets. When they're clamoring for the bloodbath of a mini-primary and the party almost unanimously says "nope," when they're calling for their own VP picks and the campaign says "Nah, we like Walz," and when these refusals to play the game that the pundits want turn out to be exceedingly popular, they've got to realize at some point that they're no longer exerting the influence that they're used to, and make a choice.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:09 AM on August 7 [34 favorites]

My wife and I watched Harris and Walz speak last night, and we were both impressed with their delivery. More talking than speechifying. I mean, I loved a good Obama barnburner, and Bill Clinton knew how to deliver orally as well as receiving, but there's something more comforting about being spoken to instead of at. I think it's a different style more than substance, I have no illusions that these politicians care more because of how they deliver a stump speech, but I think Harris has figured out what works for her, and being seen as comfortable in your own skin is huge for a candidate (something Hillary Clinton never accomplished).
posted by rikschell at 10:13 AM on August 7 [16 favorites]

A question for the political scientists here - what is the basis for the common claim that VP picks don't matter? It seems like it would be a hard thing to accurately measure

It's a very hard thing to measure because of the good ol' fundamental problem of causal inference. In principle, measuring the effects of vice presidential choices is simple -- just compare the votes the McCain / Palin ticket got in each state to the votes won by the McCain / Crist and McCain / Jindal tickets that never happened.

AFAICT, which isn't very far, most studies work this by creating a "here's how the votes in each state *should* go" measure and then looking at the difference between the actual votes and the shouldawouldacoulda votes. Which isn't stupid, but.

I dunno if anyone's done this, but you could do something similar by tracking statewide poll results over time before a VP candidate is announced and looking for a home-state change that doesn't happen in other states. When Clinton picked Kaine, did her numbers improve in VA in a way they didn't in other states?

You're right in thinking that it's a real problem that since modern campaigns began in 72 we've only had 18 vice presidential candidates. I'm not a behaviorist and haven't read any of these closely but vaguely worry that they're not really dealing with the... there are different ways to say this but I'm going to say clustering within campaigns. Studies might look at outcomes in all 50 states but there aren't 50 independent races. Or, studies will increase their N by looking back to 1880 or so, which makes not a lick of sense to me, but again I'm not a behaviorist. Me, I'd draw a line either at 1972 when the primary system began or just look at postwar elections.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:14 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Tim Wallz is tonic masculinity. It soothes and heals and gets rid of toxins.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:35 AM on August 7

He's "Vanilla Nice".
posted by Kibbutz at 10:15 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Kaine also was a staunch Catholic who stated he was personally opposed to abortion, for just one example of the ways Kaine was seen as less progressive than Walz seems

Yeah, I can’t speak too much to their records in objective terms, but Kaine was seen as a classic “balance the ticket towards the center” pick whereas Walz is seen as having Middle America cred personally but drawing on the Midwestern progressive tradition politically - hence the Chaits calling his selection a missed opportunity to run to the center, but hence also him being better at getting the base fired up.
posted by atoxyl at 10:16 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]

I don't know why the Dems scheduled the convention soooo late this cycle

Especially when you expect the primary season to just crown the incumbent, you want it as late as you can get away with so that you get convention bump happening when people are voting.

If you were expecting a big open primary season that would leave people pissed off, you'd want the convention earlier so that people were done licking their wounds before they started voting.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:17 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

That makes sense! So much sense it almost makes it worth almost getting thrown off the ticket in Ohio.
posted by rikschell at 10:19 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

as reassuring as it may be to think that various Democratic leaders have all of these stratagems mapped out, the reality is far messier and far simpler than all of that.

I don't know why it's so mindboggling to consider that the Biden/Harris campaign may have been strategizing. It's not as if democrats are congenitally less crafty than republicans or bound by law to make the stupidest possible decisions every time.

If the Reagan campaign could arrange this in 1980, why couldn't the Biden/Harris campaign manage the comparatively much easier lift of deliberately delaying Biden's dropping out until the perfect convention-busting moment to make things as difficult as possible for the Trump campaign?

If it turns out that Biden acted selfishly and everything happened in spite of him, not with his cooperation and they had to recruit Pelosi et al. to get him to say uncle, fine: it only means that the campaign ran their "Biden drops out at the perfect time to set up Harris" with a gratifyingly unwilling Biden. His digging in and trying to stay in power improves verisimilitude, in that it confirms everything I've always believed about Biden, anyway. I do not GAF about Biden's motives or Biden's legacy; I cannot stand him. But that some sector of the campaign was not tasked with setting up a plan B for running with Harris if Biden was looking nonviable? That defies belief.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:26 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Kamala Harris, however, seems like someone who has long-since heard every racist and misogynistic thing that someone could throw at her and has learned to genuinely laugh it off.

Trump's trying to pronounce her name "funny," which, brother, I'm sure she learned how to blow off in 3rd grade.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 AM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Tim Walz does not own any stocks, according to financial disclosures reviewed by Axios and confirmed by a spokesperson. [The Guardian]

In Axios’s business editor Dan Primack’s newsletter, Primack reports that Walz’s disclosures also do not indicate any mutual funds, bonds, private equities or other securities.

Kamala Harris’s vice-president pick also does not have any book deals, speaking fees or crypto or racehorse interests, Primack reports, adding that Walz does not also own any real estate.

According to the report, the Walzes’ only investment assets appear to be from state pensions.

posted by mazola at 10:31 AM on August 7 [26 favorites]

Shapiro just has a slickness, a slightly try-hard, phony quality that reminds me of Gavin Newsom.

This. When Obama came through with that cadence and that energy, it was a new cadence and energy coming from a person who everyone knew was taking on the Clinton establishment and who was opposed to an unpopular war and who was promising universal health care--in other words, he sounded different and he was seen in some way to be coming in from OUTSIDE the party, oppositional to the party.

Fifteen years later, Shapiro's Obama impersonation, aside from being extremely cringeworthy and embarrassing and just plain unsettling,* isn't "fresh-faced outsider taking on the party." It's "slick insider selling snake oil and you wouldn't want him anywhere near a family party."

I'm not saying Shapiro would've cratered the ticket, but I just think on net that approach brings a ton of negatives. You're out here trying to win swing voters who don't know a single person who has ever been to an Ivy or worked for a high-powered law firm in Manhattan. It's the John Fetterman making fun of crudite thing.** This is why you have people who were Obama-Trump-Bernie voters. I like to think that Walz will help create a class of Obama-Trump-Bernie-Harris voters.

The other thing is a person would be crazy to look at Shapiro's career, demeanor, and approach and think he gives a shit about anyone, at all. He doesn't pass any kind of decency sniff test. It's common to play poli-sci and say, "doesn't matter, the veepstakes don't matter, he's plenty popular in PA," and that's what most of us would be doing in our disappointment if Harris had chosen him, which is fine. But it DOES matter, to lots of voters. You look at Walz and you know that he has done a kindness to someone like you, has gone out on a limb for some schoolkid whom you would recognize in yourself or someone you know, and so on and so forth. I don't want to build a taller pedestal for Walz, as I know I'll eventually resent many aspects of a Harris-Walz administration. But just him as a person out there connecting with voters, trying to do right by people? No contest.

*Seriously, if you haven't done this yet, play some audio of Shapiro for someone who hasn't heard him before, and just watch the facial contortions. It's the closest modern thing watching someone's first goatse.
**Not heaping praise on Fetterman here, I think he should put on big boy clothes for his big boy job and I also hate his politics.
posted by kensington314 at 10:32 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

I am absolutely certain that Biden did not deliberately go into a debate knowing he was going to eat shit and throw everyone into a panic.
posted by Artw at 10:34 AM on August 7 [40 favorites]

I did like that Shapiro got the crowd booing the Supreme Court.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on August 7 [15 favorites]

I hope Harris creates a narrative about a future of human dignity and personal autonomy, contrasted with the fears of the end of the world and chaos-loving survivalists and their crypto schemes. Getting in front of their stupid apocalypse would be smart, because they won't deny it, and will openly preach it if triggered, and it sounds really weird to most.
posted by Brian B. at 10:36 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]

I don't know why it's so mindboggling to consider that the Biden/Harris campaign may have been strategizing.

Don Pepino, there's zero evidence whatsoever that Biden and his people waited for "the perfect convention-busting moment to make things as difficult as possible for the Trump campaign." Just....none. Meanwhile, that Politico article bl1nk posted above has tons of evidence from a wide range of people who were very clear that Biden needed to be pushed to exit up to the very last weekend. And plenty of other sources had similar reports. I suppose you could do some advanced asanas to fit this evidence into your theory, but it would be quite a stretch:

At least a half-dozen House and Senate Democrats — including senior lawmakers — had planned to call for the president to leave the campaign on Monday and Tuesday, according to one lawmaker who had a pre-drafted statement. “We were giving him the respect of the weekend to make his decision. We were hopeful that this is the decision we would make,” the Democrat said.

Biden's close circle having some sort of master plan to fuck with Trump, while also, for some unknown reason, leaving all of the rest of the Democrat leadership in the dark about that plan, so they could worry for weeks about what the polls were showing? Come on.
posted by mediareport at 10:36 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Trump's trying to pronounce her name "funny,"

Like marking territory: he’s asserting his right to determine who she is, what she’s called, and how much respect she deserves. Authoritarian bully shit.
posted by MonkeyToes at 10:37 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

It's a fun theory! I don't see why we have to refute a fun theory, myself. Thanks for sharing, Don Pepino.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:40 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Well, I'm smiling enough from Walz, and generally prefer reality in political theorizing, but ok, sure, have fun.
posted by mediareport at 10:42 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

By the way, if you are wondering why the venues for Harris and Walz rallies in your area aren't up yet, it's because they are scrambling to find bigger arenas. For example, in Detroit they got 47,000 requests for tickets, and they are still trying to find a venue large enough to accommodate most requests. (Now, the one thing they will have to do is make sure that no one pulls the stunt on them that Swifties pulled on Trump in 2020.)
posted by rednikki at 10:42 AM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Additionally, while Clinton was more unflappable in the face of everything about the 2016 campaign than one could expect of almost anyone, she wasn't completely unflappable, and quintessential bully that he is, Trump could instinctively chisel into any and every crack that she started to show. Kamala Harris, however, seems like someone who has long-since heard every racist and misogynistic thing that someone could throw at her and has learned to genuinely laugh it off. She appears genuinely unflappable, at least in the face of Trump's tactics.

I think it’s worth reflecting on what an exceptionally disruptive force Donald Trump has been in US politics—disruptive in the Uber sense of just going into a market and operating illegally, and daring the bewildered authorities to try and stop you. He upended the playbook of Nixon’s and Reagan’s strategists to exploit racism and xenophobia through dogwhistles and innuendos. Instead he embraced them wholeheartedly and explicitly, and he galvanized the right, who were finally getting pure racism heroin instead of the methadone they’d been getting for years. Trump’s primary opponents were as baffled about how to deal with him breaking every norm of how politics was conducted as Clinton was—it was like trying to play basketball against somebody who wasn’t subject to the law of gravity. Harris is temperamentally much more suited to dealing with Trump, I think, but she also has the advantage of knowing what to expect.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:47 AM on August 7 [31 favorites]

Now, the one thing they will have to do is make sure that no one pulls the stunt on them that Swifties pulled on Trump in 2020

Don't think that’s gonna be a problem.
posted by azpenguin at 10:52 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

So, I see why some might not like this type of coverage, I don't think it represents an attempt to weight the electorate against this ticket. If anything I think it is helpful.
posted by meinvt at 8:49 AM on August 7

Noted but I don't think it was an attempt to weight the electorate either. I thought it was a mean spirited description of a man who is ecstatic about the Democratic party and to be on the ticket. The description I copied from the article could've been cast in a very different way that solely reflected that rather than what seemed to be a mean accounting of what the reporter saw as awkwardness as Walz stood behind Harris, contrasted with Harris' polished user of her hands.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:01 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Absolutely massive crowd waiting for them to speak at an outdoor venue in Eu Claire, WI (Twitter video link)
posted by anastasiav at 11:04 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]

oh that video is delicious.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:05 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

The MAGA types seem to be going heavy on the 'Stolen valor' story and pitching Vance as having actual credentials as a former Marine.

The only problem I can see this actually causing is with military fetishests that don't know anyone in the military that will set them straight. I can't imagine there are enough likely dem voters who would stay home because of that to make a difference and the rest were never going to vote for him anyways.

Remember, it's not about convincing those on the fence to vote for Harris over Trump. It's about motivating folks already likely to vote for Harris but not otherwise likely to vote to get up and do it and motivating Trump voters to instead stay home.
posted by VTX at 11:05 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]

some advanced asanas
I did corpse pose for two minutes and concluded that they probably had strategy in place for how they would proceed if Biden, aged 82, had to drop out of the 2024 presidential race.

there's zero evidence whatsoever that Biden and his people waited for "the perfect convention-busting moment to make things as difficult as possible for the Trump campaign." Just....none.
I did the corpse pose for another two minutes and noticed that Biden withdrew from the race at the perfect convention-busting moment to make things as difficult as possible for the Trump campaign. Armed with that iota, I considered a binary: Did they

A. withdraw Biden at exactly that moment and not a week or two earlier, which would have allowed the republicans time to tweak their convention yack, by fortuitous chance?

Or did they

B. keep "ridin' with Biden" until the crucial moment because they realized that Biden's eventual withdrawal was inevitable but also knew that they could benefit Harris if they delayed that withdrawal?

It not really mattering a hill/plate of beans and being six of one and half a dozen of the other plausibilitywise and the latter being more appealing, I chose the latter. I do admit that that particular asana made it easy. Lying flat on the floor with my eyes closed listening to the peaceful twangs of the sitar allowed me to om myself out of my preconceptions about how useless the democrats always are, all not planning for totally forseeable and highly likely events like somebody who is 82 proving unfit to do the most difficult and exhausting and perilously world-endangering job on planet Earth for another four years like they always do.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:09 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Look, if you quote someone and then make a claim that there are two sides (which is implicit when you say “the other side”), and you clearly disagree with the person you’ve quoted, it’s not a stretch to think you are talking about them, specifically. If you are reiterating your previous assertions after the comment you quoted has only talked about how their personal experience differed from your description, which description didn’t really leave room for multiple sides, it’s also not a stretch for someone to take your reply that quotes their comment about their personal experience as applying to them personally.

Sometimes a comment prompts a response that’s not directly based on that specific comment. No problem with that! What other commenters have done in the past in such situations is preface their comment with “not relying to you specifically but this made me think of…” or something like that.
posted by eviemath at 11:12 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Like marking territory: he’s asserting his right to determine who she is, what she’s called, and how much respect she deserves. Authoritarian bully shit.

And that is weird, deviant behavior. Why are you doing that, Donald? It's creepy.
posted by ishmael at 11:14 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Walz is seen as having Middle America cred personally but drawing on the Midwestern progressive tradition politically

I can’t explain enough how much Middle America cred this guy has. I made a joke to my Republican quasi father in law who honestly is kind of the Republican version of Tim Walz that finally he has representation on the Democratic ticket and he *wasn’t offended*. I cannot express how much that would normally be impossible.
posted by corb at 11:16 AM on August 7 [44 favorites]

he galvanized the right, who were finally getting pure racism heroin instead of the methadone they’d been getting for years.

"Opioid of the Masses" by J.D. Vance: "What Trump offers is an easy escape from the pain. To every complex problem, he promises a simple solution. He can bring jobs back simply by punishing offshoring companies into submission. As he told a New Hampshire crowd—folks all too familiar with the opioid scourge—he can cure the addiction epidemic by building a Mexican wall and keeping the cartels out. He will spare the United States from humiliation and military defeat with indiscriminate bombing. It doesn’t matter that no credible military leader has endorsed his plan. He never offers details for how these plans will work, because he can’t. Trump’s promises are the needle in America’s collective vein.
[...]
Trump is cultural heroin. He makes some feel better for a bit. But he cannot fix what ails them, and one day they’ll realize it."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:17 AM on August 7 [26 favorites]

On the Tim Kaine comp above, I distinctly remember being let down by the choice. Not exactly put off, but not excited either. A corporate, pundit-class, wet noodle impression.

Having Tim Walz on the ticket though, that's really exciting. You can feel a palpable, uniting energy injected into the campaign.
posted by ishmael at 11:18 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Anand Giridharadas with an interesting clip: "So much of how we analyze politics is outdated. In this media economy, when we’re up against authoritarianism, attention and emotion and vibes and rousing people from their slumber is everything. Analysis must catch up!"
posted by mittens at 11:18 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]

On preview, what corb said. (about the Middle America cred)
posted by ishmael at 11:19 AM on August 7

"It's the vibes, stupid"
posted by mazola at 11:21 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Completely forgot Tim Kaine existed. Would not have been able to name him at gunpoint.
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

~~Joanie Loves Chachi~~ JD Loves Couches
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:28 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

I remember that Clinton/Kaine ticket being pitched as a bowl of salad for lunch. Not the most exciting thing but much better for you compared to the alternatives.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:30 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]

What other commenters have done in the past in such situations is preface their comment with “not relying to you specifically but this made me think of…” or something like that.

If you have further requests regarding how you feel people should be communicating, maybe they can go in your still-open “doomer” meta instead of continuing this derail?
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 11:31 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

On the 5D strategizing the withdrawal tip, I don't think it goes as deep as all that, but I would think Pelosi probably considered some effect in giving Biden a week to make a decision (if that reporting is true).
posted by Captaintripps at 11:32 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

With regard to the five-dimensional chess thing, I'm with Don Pepino in that the decision was made soon after the debate, and that there was definitely some strategizing going on in the high echelons of the campaign to make the handoff as effective as possible. Was the entire party in on it? Absolutely not! I guarantee you none of this was discussed outside of the Oval Office, and certainly no inkling of the true plan was allowed anywhere near a place a reporter might catch wind of it.

Those democratic lawmakers drafting statements? They didn't know. Jeffries and Pelosi and Schumer might have known and been dissembling to the press, and who could blame them? AOC and Bernie might have been tipped to it, but they probably would have backed Biden over chaos anyway.

All you need for this to be effective is for Biden to appear unwilling as long as possible, and for the senior leaders to make statements about getting fed up. Even forgetting that these are talented politicians who have been media trained out the wazoo: do you really think that 10-15 people can't keep up kayfabe for a few weeks when they think the future of the country, democracy, and the world are on the line?
posted by thecaddy at 11:34 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Johnathan Chait is unhappy, that makes me happy.

Jonathan Chait has a condescending short essay about how much smarter he is than Kamala Harris and how she doesn't "understand the assignment."

some great supporting evidence for this being the correct choice is how centrist handwringers (chait et al) are banging out beard-stroking screeds about how harris/walz need to pivot to the right immediately

NYT Pitchbot (parody account):

Kamala Harris had one assignment: To please centrist DC pundits with lightly-read magazine columns. In selecting Tim Walz, she has flunked that assignment.

by Jonathan Chait

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:36 AM on August 7 [34 favorites]

Well, I’m hopeful, and initially thought maybe his inclusion could be a reasonable compromise to allow the opponents a graceful pivot, but this is a paraphrased summary of a family-member discussion:

He: Just wait! If Kamala gets elected, they’re gonna take all our guns!
He Jr: Yeah!
She: Um, the new vice presidential candidate is an avid hunter. Do you really think he’s going to be in favor of getting rid of guns?
He: Well, ok, maybe if you’ve already got them maybe you get to keep them. But yeah, you can’t get any NEW guns!!
She: Nobody outside the military needs an assault rifle.
He: An assault rifle is no different than any other gun!
Me: (Parkland Florida resident, remembering sitting in my closet while the active shooter hunt was underway.): urgh.
posted by Nancy_LockIsLit_Palmer at 11:43 AM on August 7 [19 favorites]

eviemath, I quoted a statement where you claimed you remembered the people who thought Biden should drop out were the Doomers - I responded specifically to that claim - I never claimed any of the "Doomer" arguments of those who wanted Biden to stay in were your arguments personally - and I was pretty explicit about that given that I prefaced that list of arguments as coming from "users" plural and "pundits elsewhere." I'm not sure why you want to pick a fight with me, but I'm sorry if you feel I ever slighted you - I honestly have no beef with you, and generally recall you as being a thoughtful user whose contributions to this site I appreciate.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be more in-depth reporting on the timing, but the reporting we have is that when Schumer came to Biden the weekend before he dropped out, Biden asked for a week to process everything, and he was given a week - and there's a lot to suggest that he was perhaps still hoping the polls might turn around after his press conference. Also a fair bit of reporting that towards that final week of limbo, the open-primary faction was losing steam as many people were increasingly get exhausted from the whole saga. A bunch of factors converging seems more likely than some elaborate plan.
posted by coffeecat at 11:44 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

About Tim Walz and veterans - first off, thank you, corb, for your excellent contributions - I appreciate hearing what you've heard from veteran internet and the veterans you know.

Also, I was intrigued to learn that "In his first month in Congress, Walz was appointed to the Committee on Veterans' Affairs, the Agriculture Committee, and the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee; Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued a special waiver exempting him from the order that barred most freshman members of Congress from serving on more than two committees." (per Wikipedia) A particular concern for him was reducing veteran suicides. There's a great interview with Walz at Defense Media Network.

I would much rather talk about Harris and Walz in this thread, but I will give in to the derail about Biden's abilities in the past month just long enough to say that, after the big NATO meeting, there were numerous press reports quoting specific NATO representatives saying they had no concerns about Biden's abilities; and that he was on the phone finalizing the recent Russian prisoner swap an hour before he announced his decision to step aside. From my (distant) perspective, he continues to be an exceptionally capable, hard-working, and effective president. Right now, this very minute.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Harris-Walz YAYfest!
posted by kristi at 11:47 AM on August 7 [31 favorites]

About veterans, it is important to remember that Vance has also served with honor. It might be as a member of the Scotchgard, but service is service.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:50 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]

Seen elsewhere:

Tampon Tim will stop the red wave.

It's surprising to see the right just fail at branding.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:50 AM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Rob Flaherty:

So in the 24 hours since @KamalaHarris asked @Tim_Walz to join the ticket, her campaign has raised:

🏈 $36 million
🏈 from 450,000 donors
🏈 More than 1/3rd giving for the first time
🧑‍🏫 the top profession was teachers 😭

Ron Filipkowski:

First half of this clip is Harris’s rally crowd today.

Second half is Vance’s rally crowd today.

posted by Rhaomi at 11:53 AM on August 7 [35 favorites]

To quote Tim Walz "Wow!"
posted by bluesky43 at 11:55 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Okay, Trump must be fucking with Vance. Why would he send his VP pick, by himself, to do campaign stops where Harris and Walz are doing theirs? Like, at least Trump can pack a crowd. This feels purposeful. Does Vance have a humiliation fetish?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 11:58 AM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Live strem link for Harris/Walz in Eau Claire
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:59 AM on August 7 [3 favorites]

Does Vance have a humiliation fetish?

I believe I see a typo in your question "Does Vance fuck couches?"
posted by riverlife at 12:01 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Lots of young people dancing in that audience in Eau Claire 🥰
posted by bluesky43 at 12:04 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

Wouldn't be shocked if it's as simple as Trump hasn't been drawing crowds as big as Harris, and that bums him out so he'd rather just send out his understudy and work on his golf game.
posted by coffeecat at 12:07 PM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Okay, Trump must be fucking with Vance. Why would he send his VP pick, by himself, to do campaign stops where Harris and Walz are doing theirs? Like, at least Trump can pack a crowd. This feels purposeful. Does Vance have a humiliation fetish?

Trump knows damn well he's not able to get the crowds that Harris/Walz are getting and he's also lazy. It's easier for him to do his batshit weirdy word salad on socials than to show up anywhere.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 12:08 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Oof. Fatality to people who like saying “Drumpf”.
posted by Artw at 12:09 PM on August 7 [8 favorites]

From way up thread, but since it still seems to be a topic of conversation:

The couch thing is A-grade shitposting but straight-up calling Vance “couch-fucker” just kills the joke.

Gotta disagree with this. The magic of branding Vance a couch-fucker is that he’s now forever known primarily as “J.D. Vance, infamous couch-fucker”. He’s the joke now, no context or comedic set up necessary. Dude fucks couches; if anyone wants to argue the facts let them waste their time.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:12 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Walz hitting stage now. To Born to Run.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 12:13 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

With regard to the five-dimensional chess thing, I'm with Don Pepino in that the decision was made soon after the debate,

Sadly, they seem not to have read Biden in on the call.

The Harris campaign would not be extant if a lot of people didn't put a lot of pressure on Joe Biden.

A lot of people were accused by Biden supporters of "doomerism", undermining party unity, and trying to get Trump elected because they kept pointing out how unable Biden was to perform the presidency.

Now that there concerns have been revealed to have been entirely legitimate (and shared by party insiders who actually had to interact with Biden), and their proposal for a response has been an unqualified success, it is unsurprising that there is a sudden impulse to write fan fiction in which this was Biden's plan all along and they weren't actively making it harder to save Democratic chances in 2024.

But no. We are where we are because Biden and his supporters didn't get their way. This crediting of Biden for the work of people he actively opposed, and the candidates who have actually created this momentum is a self-serving rewriting of history. Claiming all evidence to the contrary was faked for effect is just conspiracy theory, with very little more basis than Qanon nonsense.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:13 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Joanie Loves Chachi JD Loves Couches

Chachi was rode hard and put away wet.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:14 PM on August 7

the trick is for prominent people to merely allude to couch-fucking, so that their audiences think "couch-fucker" without being told to — without actually hearing the words. it's a neat trick, because "couch-fucker" then feels like it's the listener's idea rather than the speaker's.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:14 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

The "JD" stands for Couch Fucker.
posted by mazola at 12:14 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

i feel like probably people should just go open up the old pre-biden-withdrawal threads and look at the comments — including their own comments — and then quietly think about how much the world has changed in the last month.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:16 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

First half of this clip is Harris’s rally crowd today. Second half is Vance’s rally crowd today.

"Please heil."
posted by kirkaracha at 12:18 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]

People were operating under a lot of different assumptions about what was and was not possible. We have to remember that this situation is unprecedented. Those of us who believed Biden was serious that only God could take him out of the race were trying to make the best of a bad situation. Just like those of us who supported Hillary or Kerry or Gore were doing the best we could with what we had to work with. If this works out the way I hope it will, it suddenly makes a lot more things that seemed politically impossible, suddenly possible after all.
posted by rikschell at 12:21 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

Looks like they're using "Mind your own damn business" as the lead in to the IVF discussion and Trump abortion bans.

And he just stopped to point out someone in the audience was overheating and needed some assistance/water.

"Thank you all for helping. Take care of one another..."
posted by mikelieman at 12:22 PM on August 7 [27 favorites]

"Thank you all for helping. Take care of one another..."

Socialism at work!
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:26 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

This guy was made to attend and speak at state fairs. He just has "having fun with sunshine and funnel cake" written all over him. His retail politics feels more at home during the first half of the twentieth century than it does in the post-Obama era.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:26 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

We are where we are because Biden and his supporters didn't get their way.

Biden stepped down voluntarily. Nobody made him. Nobody COULD make him. They could try to embarrass him and entreat him, but the decision was his alone.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:27 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

(The weird screed Trump published on his social thingy: Are those Nazis really into all the weird nickname bullshit? I mean, that's third-grade level stuff [at best]. Are there adults who regularly give nicknames to people and call them by them? It's so...basic? Moronic? Childish? [With apologies to "basics", morons, and children.])
posted by maxwelton at 12:27 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

Even forgetting that these are talented politicians who have been media trained out the wazoo: do you really think that 10-15 people can't keep up kayfabe for a few weeks when they think the future of the country, democracy, and the world are on the line?

actually, for this particular topic, yes, I do believe that a conspiracy like this is implausible. A plan like this would prompt questions like "ok, if Kamala is going to be the nominee, who's going to be her running mate? how do we set them up to do it?" and that will prompt manuevering, and that manuevering will prompt leaking.

Having worked on campaigns, we definitely did scenario and contingency planning. We had plans for 2020 on what to do if the vote count was close (which it was). We had plans for what to do if there was a Russian cyberattack (which there wasn't). We had plans for what to do if there was a natural disaster on Election Day (which also, thankfully, there wasn't). But a limit of contingency and scenario planning is that you can plot so far before decisions need to be made, or "what-if's" start multiplying, and if you can't make that decision in advance, then your plan is going to be pretty limited.

So, the fact that the Biden campaign was able to flip its logo and imagery and get a bunch of Harris for President swag out overnight? Scenario planning and infrastructure and a bunch of really motivated staffers working on a Sunday because those didn't need a decision beyond "assume Biden will endorse Kamala if he steps down." The fact that Harris knew who to call as soon as Biden gave her the green light? Her team had likely gamed this out a week or so before as the polls kept sliding so they knew who to call right away, but the acceptance of those calls wasn't in the bag, and I doubt that they had a lot of plans for what to do if they got push back or contenders being more aggressive about wanting a brokered convention beyond "we'll deal with it if it comes up."

Also, speaking of the brokered convention, recall that the talk about Biden dropping last month, there was a very real worry about any successor having some form of democratic legitimacy. A large appeal of the potential trash fire of a brokered convention was to go through some exercise of generating a sense that the new candidate was chosen by the party at large, not by this shadowy cabal. Nobody planned for the groundswell that Kamala got as soon as she got the endorsement. I think everybody was relieved to see it.

The fanfic that you're all trying to write here about some kind of elite conspiracy is corrosive to the actual phenomenon of Kamala's Brat Summer.

Let it exist. It's great. I know I've pushed back against these things a bunch in these threads, and I get how this fanfic writing is kind of fun, but a thing that I think about with seeing how weird Vance and the right-wing MAGA-sphere is gotten is that we're devolving into our little bubbles where we pay less attention to actual news and more attention to these fan theories that we like to write for ourselves. I think it's fine to noodle on this shit when it's, like, sports teams manufacturing beefs with each other or celebrities gossiping; but in politics this stuff can get conspiratorial pretty quickly, and we just have too much of that going around.
posted by bl1nk at 12:28 PM on August 7 [52 favorites]

Okay, one other thing I really, really like about Tim Walz - his combined understated pride and completely authentic humility. When he's accomplished something, he doesn't pretend it was nothing (he sure enjoys the fact that he got that football team to their first state championship), but he also, simultaneously, genuinely appreciates the fact that he's able to do a good thing because other people have given him the opportunity to do that.

I was so struck by the way he phrased this at the rally last night (like, so struck that I paused the video so I could write it down) - here's him describing getting elected to Congress:

My neighbors graced me with an opportunity to represent them

And then just now I'm reading that interview with Defense Media Network that I linked above:

What legislative achievements with respect to veterans are you most proud of, congressman?

Certainly, I think Clay Hunt, in moving the whole cultural piece on the acceptance of mental health parity. Early on, I think advanced appropriations so that if we ever get into a government shutdown our veterans are protected from that because we budget a year in advance. I think the Forever GI Bill, and an update of a GI Bill that has been a generation in the making, that makes sense. I think those are things that improve lives. They were done with a spirit of collaboration and honest debate. And I think how those bills came into law reflected how Congress should work, and in respect to what our veterans fought for. Our veterans fought and served for the right for us to govern ourselves, to have civilian government and to have this representation. And I think the way we’ve conducted ourselves in the VA brings honor to them. I think those three pieces of legislation showed that we’re not going to allow politics to interfere with your payments. We’re going to update the GI Bill because there is a new reality of who is getting deployed, and we’re going to recognize that those invisible wounds of war are every bit as valid as the ones that we can see, the extremity injuries or whatever else it might be. And I think we’ve changed the entire debate in the country on mental health because of it. So, I think if I’m remembered for my time here of doing those things, that is something I’m grateful to have had the chance to do.

(emphasis mine)

He is grateful for the chance to be of service. He feels good about changing lives for the better, and he knows that not everybody gets to do that, and he's grateful that he does get to.

My grandfather was a salt-of-the-earth Republican - the kind we used to have, who believed in service and community and gave back by volunteering with Kiwanas and other service organizations, and probably in other ways he didn't bother to talk about because it wasn't about him. I'm pretty sure my grandfather would have loved Tim Walz. He certainly would have respected him.
posted by kristi at 12:29 PM on August 7 [26 favorites]

"Mind your own damn business" pairs real well with “you’re being weird”.
posted by Artw at 12:29 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]

People were operating under a lot of different assumptions about what was and was not possible. We have to remember that this situation is unprecedented.

Absolutely. There is no problem with being unable to predict the future. It is a problem to rewrite history to credit Biden with the success of a response he actively opposed until he faced insurmountable pressure to leave office.

Biden stepped down voluntarily. Nobody made him. Nobody COULD make him. They could try to embarrass him and entreat him, but the decision was his alone.

Sure, once he finally realized he was going to lose to Donald Trump. Something everyone else figured out a long time ago. And once he faced the threat of having the party insiders actually turn on him.

Dropping from the race was the decision that best served Joe Biden, because victory and getting to run the party unopposed into defeat at Trump's hands were off the table.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:31 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Fair enough, but it’s also rewriting history to act as if any of us had anything to do with it. Thank George Clooney and Pelosi and Obama for making it happen, I guess.
posted by rikschell at 12:37 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

One day I will bask in the glow of being right on MetaFilter but, alas, today is not the day. :(
posted by mazola at 12:39 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Add “Relitigating the Summer of ‘24” to the list of things we evidently don’t do well…
posted by darkstar at 12:39 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

I don't think anyone has claimed Metafilter debates had any impact on what unfolded.
posted by coffeecat at 12:41 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Add “Relitigating the Summer of ‘24” to the list of things we evidently don’t do well…

That's like a Bryan Adams song about us!
posted by kensington314 at 12:41 PM on August 7 [15 favorites]

I got my first sock puppet
Bought it for five online...
posted by gwint at 12:44 PM on August 7 [35 favorites]

I’m real glad it didn’t go well for
1) Republicans
2) Pundits and other ghouls

And other than that I don’t much give a shit who was right or wrong.
posted by Artw at 12:45 PM on August 7 [26 favorites]

This guy was made to attend and speak at state fairs.

Yeah, not only is it fortunate that the Fall = football season, but also that it's state fair season - send Walz to every state fair and as many country fairs as possible. Call it the "Walz listens to rural America" tour.
posted by coffeecat at 12:46 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

> Biden stepped down voluntarily

Sure, once he finally realized he was going to lose to Donald Trump [and] faced the threat of having the party insiders actually turn on him.

Okay, I guess we agree. Biden stepped down once he realized that the odds of his losing to Donald Trump (putting the country and the world in grave danger) were uncomfortably high, and when his friends and allies asked him to.

Personally I believe the story that the decisive factor was "new battleground polling over the last week" before he stepped down as the nominee, as mentioned in the Politico article. But I also believe that he was probably talking to people about what would happen IF he were to resign for a few days or weeks before he saw that polling and made the final decision. "IF I were to resign, would you support Harris?" I think some of the people who were calling on him to resign probably did promise they would support her, in the hopes of influencing his decision. I believe he hoped to continue and kept that path open for himself as long as possible, and also didn't want to undercut his own position in the prisoner swap negotiations or the Israel situation. But the Ohio ballot deadline was coming up; those bad polls started coming back; there were more Democrats calling publicly for him to step down, and maybe he got some more reassuring promises from people who might have contested that nomination that they wouldn't do it. So he waited for the convention to end, and hit post.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:48 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

Harris's rally speech is *fierce.* I love it.
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 12:50 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Are there adults who regularly give nicknames to people and call them by them?

I mean, I’m old enough to remember when everyone called GWB “Shrub.” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by donatella at 12:51 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

IMO Harris has the better rally song.
posted by mazola at 12:55 PM on August 7

Fair enough, but it’s also rewriting history to act as if any of us had anything to do with it. Thank George Clooney and Pelosi and Obama for making it happen, I guess.

No. Obviously no one here had anything to do with this. (I suppose you could argue the people actively protesting Biden in Washington as the candidate had some influence, but if so only indirectly. It was clear Biden didn't give a damn what they thought.) People like Pelosi, and Schumer took the risk and applied pressure to their own party's sitting president. That isn't something anyone who cares about their political career in the US does lightly.

People like George Clooney, and Ezra Klein took a huge amount of flak for not being willing to back Biden while he lost. They were called out of touch elites (by Joe Biden of all people). Those who publicly said Biden couldn't do the job were accused of wanting Trump to win.

Kamala Harris inspired a ton of orgaanizers and fundraisers. She's run a (so far) near flawless campaign, and organized Democrats in a way Biden had never accomplished. She picked Walz, who was an outstanding campaigner for her well before he was selected, and he has obviously added real value to the ticket.

None of us here were doing any better than guessing what would happen. Some people opposed Biden leaving the race for good reasons. Some people supported his leaving for bad reasons. None of us had any real clue how this would turn out, and I don't think credit or blame apply to any of us.

I do think pretending Biden was an enthusiastic participant in his own removal, and his supporters in the government were actually always on board with Harris taking his place does a massive disservice to the people who took the risks and did the work, however much I may disagree with their other political stances.

Okay, I guess we agree. Biden stepped down once he realized that the odds of his losing to Donald Trump (putting the country and the world in grave danger) were uncomfortably high, and when his friends and allies asked him to.

When they told him he was going to face direct opposition from inside the party he gave in. I don't think Biden was putting the country first. I don't know his heart though. Maybe he cares about Americans in a way he doesn't other people. I can't really say.

I'll drop this and quit being a bummer in this otherwise upbeat thread. It just really bugs me to see an obviously false narrative being laid down within weeks or months of the events being obscured by it.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:56 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

I'm just throwing it out there that it seems like there are opportunities for mefi meetups at the Minnesota State Fair. It is the great Minnesota get together. It would be great to, you know, get together. :)
posted by VTX at 12:57 PM on August 7 [15 favorites]

There have been some minor cosmetic updates to kamalaharris.com - hoping that means they are also doing prep to get policy stuff on the website.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 12:57 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

I mean, that's third-grade level stuff [at best]. Are there adults who regularly give nicknames to people and call them by them? It's so...basic? Moronic? Childish?

As Donatella says above, we all referred to GWB as "Shrub" or "Dubya", GWB regularly called one of his cabinet members "Turd Blossom", and we still all persist on referring to Donald Trump with names like "Darth Cheeto" or "TFG". Nicknaming people isn't weird in and of itself. And we all tend to give less-than-flattering nicknames to people we don't like.

As to the degree Trump does that....well, yeah, basically he's Scott Farkus.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:59 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'" - J.D. Vance (probably)
posted by JohnFromGR at 1:00 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

! It's not a false narrative to speculate on what happened with Biden, its chatting with other interested parties here. Damn MeFi takes itself so seriously.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:00 PM on August 7 [16 favorites]

Via TikTok:

Sure, Walz and Vance could debate. OR they could meet privately & Vance could open up about how he's not sure why he went down such a dark path. Then, Walz could hug him, assure him everyone makes mistakes, help him drop out of the race and get his life back on track.

posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:01 PM on August 7 [51 favorites]

IMO Harris has the better rally song.

"Born to Run" is fine for Walz, but I really think he should pick a different song from a Minnesota artist for each appearance. Like, Alex Chilton in Phoenix followed by I Would Die 4 U in Reno followed by Stuck Between Stations in Charlotte. Make it a fun guessing game for the internet about what his next entrance music is gonna be.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:02 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

He should just play "Ice Cream Castle" on a loop the whole time. Also Janet Jackson is honorary Minnesota music, he should just go "Ice Cream Castle" and "Rhythm Nation" back to back until November.
posted by kensington314 at 1:04 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

> relitigate

sigh gonna wade into the thing. mostly because i don't want the thing i'm going to wade into to spread out from its original source in 2016/2020 and thereby consume any part of 2024. metafilter doesn't litigate anything. as such, it's not possible for metafilter to relitigate anything. yes yes that's just wordplay / willfully misunderstanding an idiom, but the idiom sucks so i'm going to willfully misunderstand it.

a way the idiom could make sense is if metafilter were, despite not being connected to any judiciary, nevertheless an organization with a party line that everyone agrees to follow. in that sense "relitigation" would mean reopening a debate that was already settled; like, in this scenario we're a trotskyist organization or a parliamentary caucus or something and we've all vowed to support the party line now that we've determined what it is and if we don't cortex or whoever will withdraw the whip from us. but like we're not that sort of thing either, or at least i very much hope not but if we are can we have a vote for party leader because i know who i want to be the pm of metafilter and i need to know how to register my vote.

the idiom does make sense if we're using it in with the meaning "we have had this debate many many times and it hasn't gone anywhere so let's not let it consume the current thread" or "we have had this debate many many times and most of the people on one side of it have decamped to less-blue pastures and we don't want to open old wounds that will chase more people out" or even "we have had this debate many times and the people on one side of it should stop talking now." the idiom still grates on me, but that's a problem idiosyncratic to me and anyway when i'm on metafilter i'm effectively playing a character and that character is a self-aggrandizing version of me with all the idiosyncratic features turned up as far as possible so me having an idiosyncratic problem isn't something that should go into anyone else's decision-making processes in any way.

but

what's going on here is folks asserting not that we shouldn't relitigate the stuff that got a whole bunch of people from half of metafilter to button back in 2016 and then got a whole bunch of the rest of the people from that half to button in 2020, like when i'm being honest with myself most of the reason i myself came back is because i thought of a username even more sick and rad and awesome than my old one, which was itself more sick and rad and awesome than the previous one. like oh man even people who don't find the word "relitigate" extremely grating in this context are like "oof yeah 2016/2020 are not wounds we wanna reopen that's not a boil we need to further lance thank you very much."

what's going on right now though is folks using that i-think-it's-damnable word in the context of stuff we were all saying a month ago when we didn't know the presidential election and the world around it would change so dramatically between august 7 2024 and july 7 2024. we didn't know what the fuck we were talking about! the world shifted under our feet! and we didn't see it coming, not one of us! the only thing that bringing the word "relitigate" into it accomplishes — and i think once again that even people who don't find that word and that idiom super mega annoying would agree — is reminding us all of the utter shitshow that was all that stuff from four years ago and all that stuff from eight years ago that we don't want to repeat.

anyway. this is a little bombastic and totally lowercase and i hope i haven't too much pissed off people who say "don't relitigate" but nevertheless i do think my judgement is at least semi-sound here and that it would be for the best if people didn't apply that particular trigger word — and i know what i mean when i say "trigger word" and do in fact think that on the community level we all get honest-to-walz triggered when we see it — in new contexts.

go read your comments from a month ago! do it! think about what politics was then, and think about what politics is now, and thank the stars above that we get to live in the august 2024 that we live in rather than the august 2024 it looked like we were gonna get stuck in! shit, i'm kind of cringing about all the comments where i was like "george clooney! no tom hanks!" as if it were a joke but actually i meant it! i'm kind of cringing about how i thought a harris campaign would end up as a conventional catastrophe rather than the eucatastrophe we actually got! but also i'm like "oh man, oh my little dude, i wish i could reach a few weeks back in time and somehow let you know that it'd work out so well" and i feel something analogous to that about every last one of the other commenters on those threads.

go easy on yourself, go easy on your friends, go easy on your comrades, go easy on mefites. we're all in this together y'all. all of us, the people who find the word "relitigate" to be fingernails-on-chalkboard and the ones who think it's a useful intervention in conversations (i don't know where y'all are coming from but the world is a strange and magical place full of more things and more worldviews than we'll ever understand) and even the ones who think it's something to joke about.

be nice, y'all! everything's going great! i'll try to be nice too! it's possible to be both a bombastic pronouncement-maker and nice, it totally is i swear
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:06 PM on August 7 [16 favorites]

"Born to Run" is fine for Walz, but I really think he should pick a different song from a Minnesota artist for each appearance.

*Cracks knuckles and starts going through Prince LPs*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:06 PM on August 7 [15 favorites]

veterans, it is important to remember that Vance has also served with honor.

I mean, *I* literally have more ribbons than JD Vance and I was a war resister that the Army considered putting in jail. I don’t know we have evidence that he served with honor. All we know is that for three of his four years of service he didn’t get a Captain’s Mast.
posted by corb at 1:07 PM on August 7 [40 favorites]

But maybe his couch did.
posted by Captaintripps at 1:08 PM on August 7 [38 favorites]

Is Tim Walz going to make camo hats cool? Do I need to get a camo hat? CAMO hat versus MAGA hat in a head to head?
posted by kensington314 at 1:14 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

VP Harris's response to crowd chants of "Lock him up!" at the Wisconsin rally was apparently:

"Hold on now, the courts are going to handle that part of it. What we're going to do is beat him in November."

Spot on, once again. Not the easy play; the right play.
posted by The Bellman at 1:15 PM on August 7 [75 favorites]

> I mean, *I* literally have more ribbons than JD Vance and I was a war resister that the Army considered putting in jail.

hey knock it off you've already got my vote for prime minister of metafilter there's simply no reason for you to keep getting even more awesome.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:17 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Is Tim Walz going to make camo hats cool?

To be clear, Chappell Roan made camo hats cool. The Harris/Walz campaign is just hip enough to see the opportunity and get on board.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:19 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Official Camo Hat
posted by art.bikes at 1:19 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

the stuff that got a whole bunch of people from half of metafilter to button back in 2016 and then got a whole bunch of the rest of the people from that half to button in 2020

(It looks like adrienneleigh buttoned yesterday, by the way. I can guess which more-rude-than-it-needed-to-be comment in this thread was the tipping point, but there's probably not much value in resurfacing it. I haven't agreed with their stances all the time, but I think it's a shame they're gone and I hope they come back after some time away. )
posted by nobody at 1:19 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]

VP Harris's response to crowd chants of "Lock him up!"
Yes. Had Tim not said "if he can get off the couch," that would have been my single most favorite thing among a pile of favorite things about the rollout yesterday--the crowd starts doing something dumb, and they demonstrate basic sentience and humanity by refusing to celebrate and tamping it down, thereby effectively drawing the comparison between candidates for president and vice president and candidates for dictator and toadie.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:21 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

"Hold on now, the courts are going to handle that part of it."

Are they, though? At this point it sure seems like he's going to skate on the criminal stuff even if he loses. It's good to have 6 SC justices in your pocket.
posted by Justinian at 1:22 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

If the courts aren’t going to handle it, it still doesn’t mean there’s an extrajudicial action that would be okay.
posted by argybarg at 1:24 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

There's a middle ground between perfectly executed master plan and made it up as they went along. Some decision could have been made choosing the path the leads to the most positive potential outcomes not knowing what opportunities there might be down the road. Then they got lucky and an opportunity arose that they capitalized on. That and a dash of dumb-luck.

I don't think there's anything to relitigate. There were nothing but risky options and everyone did the best they could with the information they had at the time. Predicting the future is hard. Especially in that case where we're talking about predicting the reactions of the voting public. You're not getting that right without a time machine or a lot of luck.

I do want to push back on this notion that 40% of Americans support Trump. It's more like half-ish of voters isn't it? In 2020, just under two thirds of voting age people voted. A third of Americans is still plenty scary and not all of those are hardcore about it but 40% seems a bit much. Maybe that's true if you slice the data differently but there's a reason why turnout helps dems and hurts the GOP. There are more of us good weirdos than bad weirdos.
posted by VTX at 1:25 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

ABC: Despite new criticism, Trump told Walz in 2020 he was 'very happy' with his handling of George Floyd protests

Trump expressed support for Walz's handling of the protests, according to a recording of a phone call obtained by ABC News -- telling a group of governors that Walz "dominated," and praising his leadership as an example for other states to follow.

"I know Gov. Walz is on the phone, and we spoke, and I fully agree with the way he handled it the last couple of days," Trump told a group of governors on June 1, 2020, according to a recording of the call, in which he also called Walz an "excellent guy."

That's a shame.
posted by Rhaomi at 1:26 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]

"Born to Run" is fine for Walz, but I really think he should pick a different song from a Minnesota artist for each appearance.

Also Biden's 2020 Campaign Song was Springsteen's "We Take Care of Our Own" which was fine, but yes, please let's have term limits for campaign song artists.

Bruce can take a break this cycle and we can swap in Bob Dylan. Also I know that Janelle Monae was born in KCK, but given that she had Prince as a mentor and collaborator, I wouldn't object to having her compose a sequel to "Turntables"
posted by bl1nk at 1:29 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

CAMO hat versus MAGA hat in a head to head?

They'll never see it coming.
posted by Horkus at 1:30 PM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Apropos of nothing, remember when Aaron Sorkin said Harris should pick Mitt Romney as a running mate?

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by East14thTaco at 1:31 PM on August 7 [30 favorites]

Damn, I wrote up a really long comment tearing apart the holes in Vance’s service that are exposed by an old bio he put up about himself, only to have it eaten by my phone. But suffice it to say, I wouldn’t be tripping too loudly around that Stolen Valor house, buckaroo. Also, there’s literally *no one* on the entire internet saying “yeah, I knew Corporal Hamel, he was alright”? Not a single fucking Marine? My bet is on there being some real skeletons there that the Trump team did not have the competency to vet.
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

Despite new criticism, Trump told Walz in 2020 he was 'very happy' with his handling of George Floyd protests

Okay, and there goes my one worry about Tim Walz. Footage of the fires and looting? Recording of Trump saying "I fully agree with the way he handled it"

Maybe Harris already knew about that recording and that this would be a non-issue. Either way she sure has been making good decisions.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:33 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

> It looks like adrienneleigh buttoned yesterday

which makes me super sad because i got so many favorites off of them! also i'll miss their contributions to the community a great deal
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:34 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Metafilter: "i'm kind of cringing about how i thought"

Also, war resister corb's humblebrag about their No Couches Fucked service medal is low-key one of my favorite MeFi moments of the past five years, thank you!
posted by riverlife at 1:34 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

At this point it sure seems like he's going to skate on the criminal stuff even if he loses. It's good to have 6 SC justices in your pocket.

Mostly, maybe? But ICYMI the Supreme Court on Monday denied a (truly bonkers) application by the State of Missouri to delay Trump's sentencing on his 34 NY felony convictions (Alito and Thomas dissenting, of course). And although Justice Merchan has accepted briefing on the immunity issue in that case, he filed a letter Order on Monday stating:

Please note, the court appearance scheduled for September 18, 2024, at 10 A.M. remains unchanged. We will proceed on that date and time to the imposition of sentence or other proceedings as appropriate. Please keep these dates in mind if you still wish to file a pre-sentence recommendation. [emphasis original]

So there is some hope there. Of course it's just a first step and jailtime certainly seems unlikely in that case, whatever the outcome on immunity, but the wheels of justice continue to turn.
posted by The Bellman at 1:38 PM on August 7 [8 favorites]

I don't know why the Dems scheduled the convention soooo late this cycle, but it turned out to be a great idea.

Olympics blocking the middle of the summer?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:50 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Olympics blocking the middle of the summer?

Isn't that going to happen every presidential election year, though?
posted by Navelgazer at 1:54 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

> RFK JR.: Bigfoot is real and I shot him with a crossbow in 1997.

. . . and dropped its body on Central Park, along with an old unicycle - to make it seem like Bigfoot died in an unfortunate unicycle crash.
posted by flug at 1:54 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

The 2020 Republican convention was even later. The party of the incumbent usually has their convention second, and usually in late August (the Olympics are often a thing, but weren't in 2020).
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:56 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

From Garbage Day's Ryan Broderick: ... it’s not just centrists that are filling up their diapers at the moment. The right is scrambling in a way they really haven’t since former President Barack Obama’s first campaign. They’re calling Walz “Tampon Tim”. Weird. And trying to counter the couch meme by starting a meme that Walz had sex with a traffic cone. Also weird. And some are even claiming Walz once drank a gallon of human semen. Even weirder. Once-formidable conservative mastermind Christopher Rufo has spent the last 12 hours posting on X like he’s Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh! Which I think means things are going badly. As Onion CEO Ben Collins succinctly put it, “the psycho 4chan bathroom pervert shit is just not going to work against this.” I mean, Fox News is publishing pro-Walz op-eds and libs are already writing fanfic about how Walz is their dad. It’s joever, guys.

... I’ll put this disclaimer here one last time. We are still early. Anything can and probably will happen. But I will also say this: It’s ok to feel good right now.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:57 PM on August 7 [15 favorites]

(Alito and Thomas dissenting, of course)

Yeah, I guess I'm just being naive here, but I still think it's pretty amazing that those two wanted to make sure they could be on the record saying the court should seriously consider that the State of Missouri may have the right to sue the State of NY for how it conducts its criminal trials, if the criminal in question is their (not-even-from-Missouri!) favorite little sociopath.
posted by nobody at 1:58 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Just like it says in the constitution!
posted by Artw at 2:00 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

As seen on Mastodon, "If I were a snarky democrat holding office in a red state right now I'd push a bill called the 'let donald trump vote' law which allows felons to vote."
posted by vac2003 at 2:10 PM on August 7 [46 favorites]

it’s not just centrists that are filling up their diapers at the moment. The right is scrambling in a way they really haven’t since former President Barack Obama’s first campaign.

I'm just really happy that it's the right-wingers that are experiencing the "What's Happening" Poltergeist meme for once.
posted by ishmael at 2:25 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

The corpse in the library: no, nobody knows what "Kamabla" is supposed to mean when Trump uses it as her name.

It clearly means covfefe.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:29 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

I will save someone else the time: no, nobody knows what "Kamabla" is supposed to mean when Trump uses it as her name. I rarely get puns and figured I was missing some obvious joke or slur but nope: it is a mystery.

Without putting too much thought into it, because for sure TFG didn't, he's probably emphasizing the 'bla' as either "blah, blah, blah" or blah as in bland.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:31 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

I don't think anyone has claimed Metafilter debates had any impact on what unfolded.

I claim it.

Chessmate, libs.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:32 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

no, nobody knows what "Kamabla" is supposed to mean when Trump uses it as her name

It's a portmanteau. The "Kama" part comes from her first name, and the "Bla" part comes from . . . something else. Some descriptor of her that starts with "Bla". I don't know what it could be. Bla... Bla... Blaaaaaa.... Nope. I got nothing.
posted by The Bellman at 2:33 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

“Kamabla” sounds more African to him.
posted by argybarg at 2:38 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

Part of the dumb name thing is loading his follower's lips so they can drive "the libs" crazy or whatever weird shit.
posted by VTX at 2:39 PM on August 7

It’s from Tanagra, when the walls fell.
posted by AndrewInDC at 2:40 PM on August 7 [22 favorites]

It feels like there's a bunch of folks who won't be happy until every single person who expressed concern at what would happen if Biden dropped out eats humble pie. So okay, here you go!

I was really worried, and I think my reasons were good based on what we knew at the time. A contested primary could have been disastrous. A whole lot of left-wing people have been vocal about disliking Harris for years, so it was hard to predict that they'd unify behind her candidacy so quickly and painlessly. The Republicans could have tried to pull some kind of ratfucking bullshit to toss the question of whether Harris could be at the head of the ticket into the courts, which of course would be legal nonsense but that doesn't stop Federalist Society judges.

None of that happened. I was wrong, and although we've still got a long way to go (polling in battleground states is still not very optimistic despite the enthusiasm and momentum within the Democratic party), things are looking much better than they were before Biden dropped out. And I like Harris a lot more as a possible president, and Walz seems like a great pick for VP.

And you know what? The humble pie tastes pretty good, actually. So I hope we can all share a piece of it, and maybe just look forward and stop castigating each other for having been worried about different things a few weeks ago.
posted by biogeo at 2:41 PM on August 7 [51 favorites]

Watching the conservative commentariat stumbling over each other, attempting to come up with the perfect counter to the Vance/couch meme is incredible entertainment. I mean: a gallon of semen?!

The beauty of the couch thing is that it can come up anywhere: in a photo, in a seemingly innocuous sentence, in a pun. Are the Republicans going to attempt to make memes of Tim Walz doused with semen?! What the hell is the plan here?
posted by argybarg at 2:41 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

I still think Biden could've won.
posted by mazola at 2:45 PM on August 7 [14 favorites]

Metafilter: humble pie tastes pretty good, actually.

(Hey, a guy can dream! Also, pie!)
posted by meinvt at 2:46 PM on August 7

Totally agree with biogeo. Beforehand I was worried that this was unjust and would be a shitshow. With Biden’s buy-in and endorsement — both of those things were avoided. I’m really happy at how things are looking, and excited by the VP pick. I hope the team comes to my town. Madison is not really in doubt, so they might not, but I’d go cheer.
posted by eirias at 2:47 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

If you see a crowd of democrat friendly people and yell, "Fuck that fucking couch fucker!" you're sure to get a cheer.

Might be a fun thing to throw back at any maga weirdos you might encounter. "Hell yeah man, couch fucker 2024 baby! WHOOOOOOO! Fuckin' weirdo." Seems like the kind of thing I can get away with as an over-privileged white guy who would forgive you for assuming was a Trumpist. What the hell is my privilege good for if I can't use it to help people and/or dunk on assholes?
posted by VTX at 2:48 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

RE the term “relitigate”, it’s not complicated. It’s a metaphor to describe when commenters rehash arguments, providing copious receipts and reasoning in a multi-comment exchange, as a litigator might, to support different sides of an argument that especially has been discussed/debated/argued considerably already by folks who are convinced their opinions and evidence and interpretation is the correct one, the results of which debate probably aren’t neatly resolvable and are likely only to irritate folks who have to listen to it all over again without accomplishing any actual resolution.

I applied the term a bit tongue-in-cheek, as we are at the beginning of what I imagine could be one of those long-standing debates related to “the real story about Biden’s withdrawal and Harris’ ascension.”

“Relitigate” seems to have served well as a term to describe a particular kind of recurring political debate that many MeFites find tedious and exhausting. Of course, if the topic in question is one that folks feel passionately needs to be debated again because a contrary opinion was expressed, then it is understandable that the term might feel dismissive.
posted by darkstar at 2:49 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

> Metafilter: humble pie tastes pretty good, actually.

(Hey, a guy can dream! Also, pie!)

Hey, the pie discourse belongs over in the hot dish FPP!
posted by gingerbeer at 2:53 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Hot dish is a type of pie, right?
posted by medusa at 2:56 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

There's some pie v cake talk happening over there. "Cheesecake is really a pie!"

Also, recipes.
posted by gingerbeer at 2:59 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

> RFK JR.: Bigfoot is real and I shot him with a crossbow in 1997.

. . . and dropped its body on Central Park, along with an old unicycle - to make it seem like Bigfoot died in an unfortunate unicycle crash.

The setup is a little out there, even by late-season standards, but now I'm sad I'll never get to see Columbo put RFK Jr away.
posted by mykescipark at 3:03 PM on August 7 [20 favorites]

MAGA types seem to be going heavy on the 'Stolen valor' story

Haven't seen it here yet so here's the exact quote from Walz that Vance is using for the accusation of stolen valor, from this clip posted by KamalaHQ on Twitter yesterday, which I believe is from 2018, when Walz reversed his position on assault weapons after the Parkland shooting:

“We can make sure that those weapons of war, that I carried in war, is the only place where those weapons are at." [emphasis added]

It seems a poor choice of words at the time, and kind of an own goal for Harris's team to post it now, but here's their response to Vance's accusation:

In a statement, a Harris campaign spokesperson said: “In his 24 years of service, the Governor carried, fired and trained others to use weapons of war innumerable times. Governor Walz would never insult or undermine any American’s service to this country – in fact, he thanks Senator Vance for putting his life on the line for our country. It’s the American way.”

Of course, the GOP is going further, smearing Walz for retiring from the Guard to run for office in 2005, two months before his unit received orders for a 22-month tour of Iraq, but given his long service that part doesn't seem like it's going to stick. It's not for me to say if a one-time quote of "weapons...that I carried in war" is enough to hinge the serious accusation of stolen valor on, but it could possibly have some legs, and I figure that Walz will have to acknowledge it was bad phrasing at some point.
posted by mediareport at 3:05 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Hot dish is a type of pie, right?

Chicken pot pie sure is. In fact it’s humble too. Giving me some dinner ideas…
posted by eirias at 3:11 PM on August 7

and I figure that Walz will have to acknowledge it was bad phrasing at some point.

Why? It wasn't bad phrasing, and the last person who gets to attack Walz on it is a mercurial fucker whose picture is next to the definition of REMF.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:23 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Waaalz?

Yes, Weebl?

When come back bring hotdish.
posted by Captaintripps at 3:23 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

It wasn't bad phrasing, and the last person who gets to attack Walz on it is a mercurial fucker whose picture is next to the definition of REMF.

Ha, had to look that last part up. Sure, Vance is the last person this should be coming from, but again, I'm not comfortable deciding what does or doesn't count as stolen valor. I'll leave that to folks who served under fire, and listen to what they say to each other.
posted by mediareport at 3:35 PM on August 7

I'm not terribly concerned with Vance's "stolen valor" bullshit when he's carrying water for the guy who has said he knows more than the generals.
posted by azpenguin at 3:41 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

J.D. Vance Awkwardly Retreats After Bizarre Attempt to Storm Harris’ Empty Plane

J.D. Vance briskly marched up to Air Force 2, Kamala Harris’ plane, planning to give political reporters a show as he confronted the vice president uninvited on Wednesday. His power play dreams, like most of his chaotic veep run, were immediately thwarted once he realized Harris was not present.

“I just wanted to check out my future plane,” Vance told campaign reporters gathered on the tarmac in Wisconsin.

He didn’t get the chance to face Harris but said that he “wanted to go say hello to the vice president and ask her why does she refuse to answer questions.”

Includes photo of Senator Couchfucker as close as he's gonna get to Air Force 2.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:43 PM on August 7 [30 favorites]

Okay, since we're doing this. Here is one of the stories Vance wrote when he was in and serving as Cpl Hamel. https://www.2ndmaw.marines.mil/News/Article-View/Article/522765/cmc-smmc-visit-warriors-on-front/ I just searched james hamel marines and it came up. There's probably more hidden on dvids, but I didn't have success in finding them.

Some parts of public affairs are easy, at least compared to jobs more focused on combat, but its quite likely that he saw a lot more than you realize. Military photographers for example have a very high level of PTSD, even ones only serving stateside, because they have to document every car crash and any type of incident that happens on their base.
posted by Art_Pot at 3:51 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

> I will save someone else the time: no, nobody knows what "Kamabla" is supposed to mean when Trump uses it as her name. I rarely get puns and figured I was missing some obvious joke or slur but nope: it is a mystery.

Without putting too much thought into it, because for sure TFG didn't, he's probably emphasizing the 'bla' as either "blah, blah, blah" or blah as in bland.

Or, if he's saying it "kah-MAHB-lah", he's trying to make the middle syllable sound like "Mob", as in "mobster" as in "mafia" as in "she's a criminal."

Yeah, I know it doesn't make sense but I have my suspicions that Trump isn't a very clever man.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:53 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

JD Vance is doing an empty parking lot tour of the Midwest. Could produce a big spike in the drifter vote.

Compare and contrast with Harris and Walz in Detroit (live stream).
posted by kirkaracha at 3:54 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Oh my goodness, this schedule is relentless. They were just in Wisconsin. Hard work is easy work!
posted by ishmael at 3:58 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]

Apologies if it's already been posted, but this previously-unpublished interview about Walz and Trump's interactions re: the George Floyd protests and the pandemic is both heartbreaking and also just seems to showcase him so well.

Governor, when you would say, Mr. President, my children are scared, what would his response be to do that?

The president’s communication style was that I sometimes wondered if he actually heard me.

There was actually one time where I said my daughter is sitting right next to me, Mr. President, could she say hi? And what I was trying to do is for him to maybe engage on a personal basis with that. [My children] both had to get off social media because they get threats, we have people directly threatening them.

I said that there are real-world implications. I said I know that you care deeply about your children, I care deeply about mine, anything we could do to maybe separate that stuff. I never got a direct answer, but I think he heard. And he, I will say this, he took the time to speak with her, and he spent a little time chatting on the phone. That’s the way I approach this. I was trying to humanize this, trying to make the case that we’re all in this together.

posted by brook horse at 4:00 PM on August 7 [20 favorites]

Someone needs to produce a graphic integrating “Harris” with “Happy” and “Walz” with “Warrior.”
posted by argybarg at 4:17 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

Wow I'm watchin the Detroit event and the energy is _amazing_. It's like everyone is suddenly turned up to 11. I love it! 90 days!
posted by nightcoast at 4:19 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Tim Walz goes into dad mode to help person who becomes ill at a rally

And the first word out of his mouth is "ope!"

As a Midwesterner with a disability involving heat intolerance, I'm not crying, you're crying.
posted by brook horse at 4:25 PM on August 7 [33 favorites]

Exercise caution trying to make politics relatable to your teenager
posted by revmitcz at 4:33 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Oh my, brook horse, he looks like he wants to jump in and help. His Secret Service detail is going to find him checking the oil in their vehicles!
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:33 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

the trick is for prominent people to merely allude to couch-fucking, so that their audiences think "couch-fucker" without being told to — without actually hearing the words. it's a neat trick, because "couch-fucker" then feels like it's the listener's idea rather than the speaker's.

I just wanted to underline this, because that's in fact how all the best and most memorable dirty jokes work.
posted by rifflesby at 4:35 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

On the off chance someone NEEDS it, Berkley Breathed has emailed to let me know he has Bill the Cat (Lady) swag ready. I hesitate to link it only because I think Harris-Walz related swag money should go to their campaign, at least for now. But you could find it. Also Bill the Cat is not my fave. Opus is the correct choice, followed closely by Binkley. I'd like to think most of you will get these references but I got my first senior discount recently, so.
posted by Glinn at 4:37 PM on August 7 [21 favorites]

I'm a Minnesota and I didn't not realize that "ope" was a thing or that it had become some kind of meme. So I had to look it up and as soon as I read a description I knew exactly what it was and realized that I do it all the time. Didn't even realize that I do but I totally do and I'm thrilled to see it Walz being so endearing while being so totally Minnesotan it's like he was made in a lab.

If a person wanted to play the "no true Minnesotan" game, Walz is 100% a true Minnesotan. He's what I think a typical white-male Minnesota is supposed to be. I don't think he could do a non-Minnesotan thing if he tried in all of the very best ways.
posted by VTX at 4:38 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

I just saw on the livestream the news Beyonce may appear with Kamala soon. 😍
posted by Glinn at 4:43 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

So I had to look it up and as soon as I read a description I knew exactly what it was and realized that I do it all the time.

Someone needs to make a bingo of Midwesternisms for Harris/Walz rallies, and it won't be me because it would make me realize how often I really say "ope" and "you betcha" and "just gonna sneak on past ya" and "no yeah for sure" ...
posted by brook horse at 4:46 PM on August 7 [16 favorites]

Ohhhh.
In an exciting development for the 2024 presidential race, global superstar Beyoncé has announced her support for Vice President Kamala Harris by donating a staggering $4 million to her campaign. This move underscores the significance of this election, as the “Halo” singer passionately believes that the stakes are too high to remain on the sidelines.

Reports indicate that she will be joining the Vice President and other supporters at an upcoming fundraiser, showcasing her dedication to the cause. The Daily Mail highlighted on August 4th that Beyoncé has cleared her schedule to attend this critical fundraiser, demonstrating her unwavering support for Harris.
(I think this is a central Oregon news source)
posted by Glinn at 4:47 PM on August 7 [32 favorites]

Wait wait wait.

The couch thing was started by a twitter user named rickrudescalves.

Rick Rude (or Rood depending on where he was) was a pro wrestler who had prominent runs in both the WWF and WCW.

He was also a alumnus of Robbinsdale High School along with pro wrestlers Nikita Koloff, Curt Hennig and Barry Darsow (Smash/Repo Man).

Robbinsdale is in...Minnesota.

Tim Walz is the current governor of...Minnesota.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:56 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

I'm not from the Midwest and I've never lived there, but I've said "ope" my entire life. I had no idea this was supposed to be a Midwest thing.

I do have a grandparent from Wisconsin and one from Nebraska, so maybe I picked it up from them.
posted by biogeo at 5:01 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

>I still think Biden could've won.

I was hoping the electorate of the critical former 'blue wall' states could rise to the occasion, but given 2016 (and how. fucking. close. 2020 was) I wasn't terribly sanguine on that.

Rather ride or die in the general with an F-35 than an interwar Curtis Hawk with a beat engine.

Checking https://electoral-vote.com I see Trumpo Is down to 270 there, yeay (he was at 310 last month).
posted by torokunai at 5:04 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Vance creeping up on her fucking PLANE? What a creepy ass stalker loser asshole. I want these people to go down in flames. I am surprised at my capacity to still be shocked by them but ICK
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:09 PM on August 7 [43 favorites]

I'm not from the Midwest and I've never lived there, but I've said "ope" my entire life.

Happy to welcome you as an honorary Midwesterner, biogeo!
posted by eirias at 5:10 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

Tim Walz goes into dad mode to help person who becomes ill at a rally

Trump tells rally-goers not to die in searing Vegas heat: ‘I don’t care about you, I just want your vote’
posted by kirkaracha at 5:11 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

Right now, in Michigan, VP Harris is trying to get her own crowd to stop chanting her name so she can get on with her speech. "All of your voices matter, but right now I'm speaking." I'm cracking up.
posted by The Bellman at 5:13 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

A lot of people were accused by Biden supporters of "doomerism", undermining party unity, and trying to get Trump elected because they kept pointing out how unable Biden was to perform the presidency.

Depends on what you mean by "perform the presidency."

If you mean "put on a public performance of being president", Biden undoubtedly has a harder time of that than he did 4 years ago.

If you mean "do the job of being president", he's still quite clearly firing on all cylinders. The NATO summit, the prisoner swap, and other quieter moments of excellent work continue to unfold, for those who are paying attention.

I've been of the opinion for some time that Biden is the most talented and effective (in a good way) president of my lifetime, and I was born during the Nixon administration. There's no telling at what point he might actually have become incapable of doing the job, but that moment has not arrived thus far.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:15 PM on August 7 [39 favorites]

“I just wanted to check out my future plane,” Vance told campaign reporters gathered on the tarmac in Wisconsin.

The little twerp is measuring the drapes.

Not a good look.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:21 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

He just wanted to check the layout to see how big of a sectional would fit in there.
posted by sacrifix at 5:23 PM on August 7 [32 favorites]

how pissed off do you think he'd be if a drag performer took up the name Jay Deviance?
posted by Clowder of bats at 5:29 PM on August 7 [29 favorites]

Right now, in Michigan, VP Harris is trying to get her own crowd to stop chanting her name so she can get on with her speech. "All of your voices matter, but right now I'm speaking." I'm cracking up.

I'm pretty sure there was some heckler or protest or something, and the crowd was changing to shut them down. A little bit later, she said something like, "if you want Trump to win, keep talking, otherwise I'm the one talking right now".
posted by meese at 5:30 PM on August 7 [8 favorites]

Happy to be one, eirias! I'm looking forward to developing strong opinions about snow tires.
posted by biogeo at 5:37 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

[Walz] just stopped [his speech] to point out someone in the audience was overheating and needed some assistance/water.

The first few times I saw this referenced in my Twitter feed, I honestly thought it was yet another joke about how wholesome he is.

I checked news sites and watched the video clip.
It really happened.
posted by cheshyre at 5:37 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

The little twerp is measuring the drapes.

It feels like when Mitt Romney visited the UK in 2012 ahead of the election, yet somehow even more presumptuous and weird.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:50 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

> Reports indicate that she will be joining the Vice President and other supporters at an upcoming fundraiser, showcasing her dedication to the cause. The Daily Mail highlighted on August 4th that Beyoncé has cleared her schedule to attend this critical fundraiser, demonstrating her unwavering support for Harris.

The Beyhive has been activated, folks, this is not a drill.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 5:50 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Nah, the Daily Mail is not reliable. That 'report' came out August 4th, and I saw it then and there doesn't seem to be any corroborating reporting about that. I mean once she sanctioned the song I think we all got that it's possible. But just like with the Taylor Swift Kamala Silhouette thing, it doesn't seem to be true.

But I do hope that the moment the ticket steps into Texas they hit up Harris county and bring along one very special guest.
posted by cashman at 5:56 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Queen Bey has Beyhives and beehives.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:58 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]

It feels like when Mitt Romney visited the UK in 2012 ahead of the election, yet somehow even more presumptuous and weird.

It's especially weird from J.D. "I'll be lucky to stay on the ticket 'til election day" Vance.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:01 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

Hell, he'll be lucky if his boss doesn't sic a mob on him.
posted by biogeo at 6:06 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

I'm not from the Midwest and I've never lived there, but I've said "ope" my entire life.

I mean, it's no "uff da."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:13 PM on August 7 [15 favorites]

Trump took a private flight with Project 2025 leader in 2022

in April 2022, Trump shared a 45-minute private flight with Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts, according to people familiar with the trip, plane-tracking data and a photograph from on board the plane, which has not been previously reported. They flew together to a Heritage conference where Trump delivered a keynote address that gestured to Heritage’s forthcoming policy proposals.

“They’re going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do,” Trump said in the speech.

Video from 2022 Shows Trump Praising Project 2025's 'Colossal Mandate' at Heritage Foundation Event
posted by kirkaracha at 6:33 PM on August 7 [23 favorites]

Why would he send his VP pick, by himself, to do campaign stops where Harris and Walz are doing theirs?

Yeah, I don't get this strategically at all, but maybe it's that the Trump campaign is in fact actually far less clever than everybody gives them credit for. Just make it real easy to compare the energy, reception, and performance between the two rallies, in a way which is really unfavorable to Vance.

Also: if you're following an incredibly popular public figure all around the country? You're not a rival, you're a groupie. Following an incredibly popular public figure all around the country just to talk shit about them to anyone who will listen? You're not a rival or a groupie, you're a stalker.
posted by jackbishop at 6:40 PM on August 7 [17 favorites]

smearing Walz for retiring from the Guard to run for office in 2005, two months before his unit received orders for a 22-month tour of Iraq

In case you're arguing details of this with someone, he did re-enlist once after 9/11. Then left so he could run for congress. My source is I heard it on Minnesota Public Radio while I was driving today.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:06 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Trump's campaign says it's 'not going to talk about couches'

In a statement on Wednesday, Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung criticized Vice President Kamala Harris for ducking interviews since President Joe Biden dropped out of the race, saying that she and her new running mate, Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota, are "scared of talking about their liberal records or policies, instead talking about non-sensical things like couches and coconuts."

"We're not going to talk about couches or coconuts or whatever weird fetish KamalaHQ is into," Cheung said, also referencing the coconut memes associated with Harris' political persona. "When we have something to say, we'll say loud and clear. If Kamala is a coward, we'll call her a coward. If Tim Walz is a liar, we'll call him a liar."

Ooh, taking back "weird" attempt! Also, I'm rubber, you're glue, what bounces off me sticks to you, unless you used ScotchGard.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:10 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

ScotchGuard is a 3M product...a Minnesota company. If anyone is using ScotchGuard, it's Walz.
posted by VTX at 7:16 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

https://timwalzfixedyourbicycle.com/
posted by bcd at 7:18 PM on August 7 [37 favorites]

> cheshyre: "The first few times I saw this referenced in my Twitter feed, I honestly thought it was yet another joke about how wholesome he is."

From Twitter:

Every new fact I learn about Tim Walz is like “he once donated his life’s savings to buying a puppy hearing aids”

posted by mhum at 7:57 PM on August 7 [11 favorites]

^^^ "Tim Walz is glad to give you a hand with your stroller down those stairs."

"Tim Walz will say “Nice to meet you, hungry,” if he hears you say “I’m hungry.”"

"Tim Walz knows you tried your best and he’s proud of you."

I love that site. Thank you for sharing it, bcd!
posted by kristi at 7:57 PM on August 7 [12 favorites]

Just a moment of vibe checking:
Joshua P Hill (with video from her rally in Michigan): Pro-Palestine protesters just disrupted Kamala's speech in Michigan.

Her response: "If you want Donald Trump to win say that. Otherwise, I’m speaking.”

:/

No no, I'm not looking for justifications. Just putting a 📍 on this.
posted by cendawanita at 7:57 PM on August 7 [18 favorites]

Okay seriously bcd I am like reloading and screenshotting every page with a big goofy grin on my face. That site is genius. You have made me very happy. I'm going to go donate some money now.
posted by kristi at 8:01 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

Here’s full context around the protestors.

As Harris spoke, a group of protesters interrupted the vice president about halfway through her remarks: "Kamala, Kamala, you can’t hide! We won’t vote for genocide,” they shouted.

…

Harris initially responded: “I’m here because I believe in democracy. I believe everyone’s voice matters. But I’m speaking now. I am speaking now." But the interruptions continued as Harris tried to discuss the ramifications of a second Trump presidency.

…

"You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking," Harris said with a long stare, drawing loud cheers from supporters in the crowd before chants of, "Not going back!"

posted by brook horse at 8:11 PM on August 7 [24 favorites]

Harris initially responded: “I’m here because I believe in democracy. I believe everyone’s voice matters. But I’m speaking now.

Video of her saying it.
posted by cashman at 8:15 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]

On bcd's https://timwalzfixedyourbicycle.com link, the second one I got was "Tim Walz wants you to put down the phone and hold the other end of the tape measure".

Not only did I love that, I love the Garfield, Mary Tyler Moore, Who's the Boss font. I could hear a corded phone ringing and smell the cold mac & cheese in an old school tupperware container. The Taxi theme song is stuck in my head. Somebody mentioned 80s sitcoms in the previous thread and I love that this ticket is giving that. Right in the feels man, right in the feels.
posted by cashman at 8:26 PM on August 7 [22 favorites]

📍
Prem Thakker on twt (and quick googling not yielding any website links): Uncommitted: Two organization leaders requested a meeting with Kamala Harris to further discuss their demands of an arms embargo & a permanent ceasefire.

Harris "shared her sympathies and expressed an openness to a meeting with Uncommitted leaders to discuss an arms embargo."

With apologies then, full text of the press release screenshot:
Uncommitted Leaders Briefly Speak With VP Harris in Detroit, Request Formal Meeting To Discuss Arms Embargo To Save Lives

DETROIT, MICHIGAN - TODAY, Uncommitted National Movement founders Layla Elabed and Abbas Alawieh briefly spoke with Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz at the campaign's Detroit rally.

The two Uncommitted leaders each shared a moment with Vice President Harris and Governor Tim Walz and presented their concerns about the U.S. supplying weapons for Israel's war and occupation against Palestinians. The two Uncommitted leaders then requested a formal meeting with Vice President Harris to further discuss their demands of an arms embargo and a permanent ceasefire.

The Vice President shared her sympathies and expressed an openness to a meeting with Uncommitted leaders to discuss an arms embargo.

During her exchange with Vice President Harris, Layla Elabed, co-founder of Uncommitted, broke down in tears and said: "I'm Palestinian, I'm a founder of Uncommitted. Michigan voters want to support you, but we need a policy that will save lives in Gaza right now. I meet with community members every day in Michigan who are losing tens and hundreds of family members in Gaza. Right now, we need an arms embargo. Will you meet with us to talk about an arms embargo?"

During his exchange with Vice President Harris, Abbas Alawieh, co-founder of Uncommitted and a DNC Delegate, said: "I'm a DNC delegate and I appreciate your leadership. We want to support you, Vice President Harris and our voters need to see you turn a new page on Gaza policy that includes embracing an arms embargo to save lives. Can we meet to discuss this urgent need for an arms embargo?"

Both Elabed and Alawieh thanked the Vice President for her openness to engaging with the demands of Uncommitted voters. Elabed also thanked Governor Walz for recognizing, and supporting Uncommitted Democratic primary voters.
posted by cendawanita at 8:40 PM on August 7 [35 favorites]

All we know is that for three of his four years of service he didn’t get a Captain’s Mast.

For the people not steeped in US military procedure; What does that mean? Is Captain's Mast some sort of participation award?

As Donatella says above, we all referred to GWB as "Shrub" or "Dubya", GWB regularly called one of his cabinet members "Turd Blossom", and we still all persist on referring to Donald Trump with names like "Darth Cheeto" or "TFG". Nicknaming people isn't weird in and of itself. And we all tend to give less-than-flattering nicknames to people we don't like.

One big difference is the proles giving nicknames to those in power is punching up; TFG always thinks he's punching down.

Okay, Trump must be fucking with Vance. Why would he send his VP pick, by himself, to do campaign stops where Harris and Walz are doing theirs? Like, at least Trump can pack a crowd.

Could be Trump being a septuagenarian of questionable health is catching up with him.

In Axios’s business editor Dan Primack’s newsletter, Primack reports that Walz’s disclosures also do not indicate any mutual funds, bonds, private equities or other securities.

WTF? I'm assuming he has some sort of emergency fund. Is it stuffed in a mayonnaise jar buried in the back yard? (Probably just a savings account somewhere but that is kinda sub optimal, should at least be rolling it over in GICs or something).

I think it would also bite them in the ass because hundreds of thousands of people have served in the reserves without being deployed over the last 40 years. So in effect you're calling all of those potential voters not real soldiers. It's silly and stupid.

But pretty on brand for Trump. The guy slagged on McCain for getting captured and has made fun of gold star families. I believe besides Trump being his narcissist self he is pissed veterans get respect for something he doesn't value.
posted by Mitheral at 8:50 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]

T-shirt: GIS nerds for Harris Walz
posted by NotLost at 8:56 PM on August 7 [4 favorites]

Re timwalzfixedyourbicycle.com:

I just keep refreshing to see all of them. I love it so much. And the Cooper Black font just hits that 1981 vibe right on the nose. Someone needs to grab a bunch of video of them, add some VHS grain and scan lines, pause it right when the music hits.
Make the perfect early 80s sitcom intro.
Like, the music starts or stops right as Kamala’s like holding his arm and throws her head back, laughing
(Voiceover) “He’s the hardworking dad. She’s the mom with career ambitions. The work they have to do really sucks, but they’re doin it to make things better for *you*”
Cue the sax.

You know what I’m saying.
Come on, someone who can edit video faster than me, please let me help make the intro cards and stuff.
posted by rp at 9:02 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

Is Captain's Mast some sort of participation award?

“Captain’s mast” is Navy or Coast Guard jargon for “nonjudicial punishment” – that is, punishment given by a commanding officer and not by a court martial.

Nonjudicial punishment is used in all branches of the U.S. military.

The jargon differs by branch. It is also called “Article 15” (after the relevant section of the Unform Code of Military Justice), “office hours” or just “NJP”.
posted by NotLost at 9:05 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

The font is Caprasimo from google fonts. I like that a bunch of the Cooper-esque fonts are popular right now.

BUT ALSO, I wish there was some way between now and the convention that Harris/Walz could sit down with some of these groups and actually have conversations but I understand that time is tight right now. BUT I think it would be nice if they took a couple days and legit had conversations with people about I/P, jobs, labor, whatever. Just pick some important topics and find some people led orgs to chat with. Don't worry, I know I'm in dreamsicle territory right now.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:06 PM on August 7 [10 favorites]

(Probably just a savings account somewhere but that is kinda sub optimal, should at least be rolling it over in GICs or something).

You know that's in a credit union.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:38 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

Via Reddit: Audio of Trump praising Walz on his handling of the riots following George Floyd’s death.
posted by darkstar at 9:42 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]

Also Via Reddit: Stirring video of thousands of supporters at the Harris event in Eau Claire today chanting “This is what democracy looks like!”

Goosebumps!
posted by darkstar at 9:46 PM on August 7 [9 favorites]

This seems like potentially a big deal, but I am terribly ignorant on GA election laws and/or whether courts can reverse or block this in time :

Georgia election board clears county officials to delay vote certification with information demands

I think what really raises the alarm bells is the tidbit that TFG called out the 3 who voted in favor by name at a rally on Saturday, clearly signaling to his MAGA base who to blame if it didn't pass.
posted by revmitcz at 9:47 PM on August 7 [13 favorites]

I posted that link because it delighted me but then got called away before providing the provenance. To be clear, I didn't have anything to do with the making it. I just saw the creator, Jason Cosper, post about it on Mastodon:

So @anildash@me.dm leaked my new project on Bluesky before I could even get a domain name pointed at the site. NBD. :melting_lol:

Some pals and I were reminiscing about Mat Honan’s “Barack Obama Is Your New Bicycle” earlier today.

Anyway, one thing led to another and I whipped up this single serving @glitchdotcom@mastodon.social site over an admittedly longer than normal lunch break:

timwalzfixedyourbicycle.com/

The whole thread below the post above is fun.

I think my favorite was, "Tim Walz bought those plums and put them in your icebox."
posted by bcd at 10:13 PM on August 7 [31 favorites]

Just over 20 years ago a skinny kid with a funny name and big ears gave the keynote speech (transcript) at the Democratic National Convention. He called for an inclusive vision of America:

Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America - there's the United States of America. There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

Some people here, me included, saw this speech and wanted him to be president of the United States. He said, and I believed and still believe, that he wanted to be president for all Americans.

Instead of embracing Obama's vision of an inclusive America, Republicans met in secret before he even took office to vow to block him on everything.

Eight years ago Hillary Clinton, a flawed campaigner with decades of baggage but an eminently qualified candidate, gave Americans a chance to elect the first woman president (long after many other modern countries elected women). We failed.

Now in 2024 we have another eminently qualified person, whose intelligence and passion and experience make an excellent candidate, and we have another chance to elect the first woman president. Not because of her gender, but because of her heart. And her brains. And her resume.

Harris and Walz are both mentioning reaching across the aisle in their speeches. Walz's "mind your own damn business" will resonate with lots of mid-Western folks in red and blue states. They're reaching out, but I think they'll take notice of the response they get.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:25 PM on August 7 [27 favorites]

Tim Walz, Who Spent Decades as an Enlisted Soldier, Brings Years of Work on Vets Issues to Dem Ticket (military.com) As the top Democrat on the [House Veterans Affairs] committee, Walz was a chief adversary for the Trump administration's Department of Veterans Affairs. He battled with then-acting VA Secretary Peter O'Rourke in 2018 during a standoff over O'Rourke's handling of the inspector general's office, and pushed for an investigation into the influence of a trio of informal VA advisers who were members of Trump's Mar-a-Lago club. An investigation by House Democrats completed after Walz left Congress concluded that the so-called Mar-a-Lago trio "violated the law and sought to exert improper influence over government officials to further their own personal interests."

Walz supported another bill that Trump touts as a top achievement, the Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act, which sought to make it easier for the VA to fire employees accused of misconduct or poor performance. But the implementation of that law was later part of Walz' fight with O'Rourke. The law also faced legal challenges that prompted the Biden administration to stop using the expedited firing authorities granted by the bill.

Walz was also an early proponent of doing more for veterans exposed to toxins during their military service, sponsored a major veterans suicide prevention bill and advocated for the expansion of GI Bill benefits. And he repeatedly pushed the VA to study marijuana usage to treat PTSD and chronic pain, something that could come up in a future administration if the Department of Justice finalizes reclassifying marijuana into a category of drugs considered less dangerous. [...]
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:56 PM on August 7 [17 favorites]

What is very funny to me about these clips on Twitter/X of the Harris rally vs. the Vance rally is how much the trolls and bots are out in force to declare that the crowds were just there for the free concert!! Bon Iver is apparently wildly more popular in 2024 than I could've realized?? They're also trotting out the old chestnut of George Soros "being good at filling buses."

At this late date there's nothing I can add about this type of rightwing delusion. It's just funny. All those crowds--unmarked Subarus full of people in regular outfits, not festooned with campaign gear or MAGA hats--are actually plants by professionals and/or giant Bon Iver fans!!

And no offense to Bon Iver but we can all agree that his time in the spotlight was a good decade-plus in the past, right?
posted by knotty knots at 11:24 PM on August 7 [6 favorites]

Could be Trump being a septuagenarian of questionable health is catching up with him.

It’s also possible that he might have been traumatized.
posted by Selena777 at 11:52 PM on August 7 [16 favorites]

Author Michael Chabon is all in on Harris/Walz [Instagram link] and set up a store to sell a GenX campaign shirt he designed with all proceeds going to the Harris Victory Fund.
posted by terrapin at 4:27 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

Wait, this is so big that the Rude Pundit actually wrote something positive and that you could share in polite company?
posted by nothing.especially.clever at 4:43 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Can i just say that it is so uplifting to read how elated people are, so happy and hopeful.
reading the politics threads until quite recently was something i did to gain a better idea of what life in the US is like, beyond the Media. but i always came away depressed or angry or both. Now i actually enjoy reading along and sharing a tiny bit of your enthusiasm. Fight and win.
posted by 15L06 at 4:52 AM on August 8 [24 favorites]

WTF? I'm assuming he has some sort of emergency fund. Is it stuffed in a mayonnaise jar buried in the back yard? (Probably just a savings account somewhere but that is kinda sub optimal, should at least be rolling it over in GICs or something).

I just assumed that his TIAA/CREF annuity is fully funded.
posted by mikelieman at 5:02 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

And no offense to Bon Iver but we can all agree that his time in the spotlight was a good decade-plus in the past, right?

Very minor derail, but Bon Iver is an Eau Claire band, Justin Vernon of Bon Iver is an Eau Claire native, and so on. Choice was pretty spot on.
posted by gimonca at 5:06 AM on August 8 [20 favorites]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but has anyone seen an estimate of the number of people who were at the Eau Claire rally yesterday? Could say “tens of thousands” but that feels like understating it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:09 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

The campaign says over 12,000 at Eau Claire yesterday.
posted by Jeanne at 5:19 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

The JD Vance song is ready.
posted by funkaspuck at 5:30 AM on August 8

Walz has a couple of different pensions so he has some decent income. But he got paid 4x more for being a congressperson than any of his previous jobs and sold his house when he became governor. He has to have the proceeds from that squirrelled away somewhere but given where he comes from I'm not all that surprised that he doesn't have much in the way of wealth. At least financial wealth, the guy is like a printing press for emotional wealth.

I also used to work as a banker in retail branches and would sometimes see people with huge stacks of cash that didn't ever invest it in stocks. They might buy treasury bonds, CDs, annuities, and other extremely low risk instruments. It's normally older people who came up in or not long after the depression and picked up an aversion to stocks from their parents that way.

I do hope someone can set him up with a basic S&P500 index fund though. It's a good fit for a lot of folks (IANA licensed investment pro, this is not financial advice) and is more or less investing broadly into "America". Maybe paired with a government bond index fund at maybe an 80/20 split (in favor of the stock index fund).
posted by VTX at 5:43 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

"You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking"

That's disappointing. Like, you kinda knew it would come up sooner or later, and now it has, and it's disappointing. Not that I expect her to take the time in these rallies to lay out some full plan on the genocide, but like, even a lame I hear you is better than "shut up, you're letting Trump win."
posted by mittens at 5:45 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

Only 12,000? The shots I saw looked like much more than that.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:46 AM on August 8

“Not Trump” is pretty much all we know about her platform so far.
posted by iamck at 5:48 AM on August 8

MPR has contrasting coverage of yesterdays Harris-Walz Talky and JD Vance’s… appearance at a manufacturing plant. Harris, Walz and the crowd wear their joy on their sleeves. The Vance crew looks like Kristi Noem just got back from a gravel quarry with some bad news about Cricket.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:53 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Though “shutting down anti-war protesters” is definitely a stance.
posted by iamck at 5:57 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

The first time, she said she heard them. The second time, she said the trump thing.

I... really don't know what the heck else anyone could expect her to do in the middle of a stump speech to a crowd of thousands.
posted by meese at 6:04 AM on August 8 [52 favorites]

("I'm speaking" is a deep cut for the superfans.)
posted by box at 6:06 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

I... really don't know what the heck else anyone could expect her to do in the middle of a stump speech to a crowd of thousands.

Have a prepared statement about our tax funded genocide?
posted by iamck at 6:08 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

New Marquette Law School Poll national survey finds Harris leading Trump and outperforming Biden against Trump; enthusiasm to vote among Democrats having risen substantially

Among likely voters, Harris is supported by 50% and Trump 42%, Kennedy 6%, Oliver 1%, Stein 1%, and West 0%.

The encouraging trend continues…
posted by darkstar at 6:11 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Yeah, I don't get this strategically at all..

It's called "bracketing".
posted by Pendragon at 6:11 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

“Not Trump” is pretty much all we know about her platform so far.

The Democratic Party platform is crafted and written at the Convention, which is in two weeks. She's already hitting certain notes at her rallies: lowering prescription drug costs, signing abortion into law, etc. But I expect that you're going to see more details after the Convention.
posted by bl1nk at 6:14 AM on August 8 [24 favorites]

I... really don't know what the heck else anyone could expect her to do in the middle of a stump speech to a crowd of thousands.

How about, "Look, we're going to talk about this after the election but right now we need to beat Trump."

It might come off sounding like an empty promise but it'd depend on her tone and what else she says after.
posted by VTX at 6:21 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

In re Palestine:

I think Harris has to soft-pedal this issue if she wants to get elected. I think this is true whether she is straight-up committed to Biden's policies, willing to consider changes or determined to negotiate a ceasefire. That's the reality of warped politics in our sick society. She can't spend the next three months dealing with lavishly funded AIPAC attacks on her candidacy.

This is the straight-up anti-democratic result of rule by the rich and uncontrolled PAC activity. AIPAC just ousted Cori Bush by throwing obscene amounts of money into a small race and they're trying that tactic on Ilhan Omar, my representative, prompting me to get the first yard sign of my life. They want to install a crook with a bad local history over our good, talented, famous representative in order to shill for a foreign country, and I'll be damned if I sit idly by.

In any case: Harris has to soft pedal.

But people also have to protest. First off, I saw some tweets this morning reminded people of the protests about DACA and gay marriage when Obama was running. Obama was pretty popular, guys, and those protests got the goods, so it's not like protests are the inexorable road to torpedoing the campaign.

Second, we absolutely must stop this genocide. This is an American shame, right up there with slavery, the Trail of Tears and turning back the Holocaust refugees. A hundred years hence, if there's an America to have history books, children will learn about the sniped babies and the prisoners raped to death and they will ask what kind of morally bankrupt fools allowed this to go on, and when they find out that it was good old "reasons of state" once again, they aren't going to love us more.

We know that Harris isn't going to represent a total sea change on American policy, because American policy isn't just decided by the President for purely personal reasons, but we don't know that Harris won't move on policy. We know Biden wouldn't and Trump wouldn't, so the one actual chance is pressuring Harris.

I'd almost say that arguing about this isn't useful - Harris isn't going to be able to say or do anything to reveal her position until she's elected and it's a fool's game to just shut up and assume that the sniped babies and bombed out refugee camps are an acceptable price for Not Trump. An unstoppable force has to meet an object that we hope may be moveable, that's all.
posted by Frowner at 6:23 AM on August 8 [86 favorites]

One thing I'm trying to do this morning, as someone who is going to support Kamala-Walz no matter what and as someone who voted Uncommitted in the primary and also feels like I haven't done enough to protest the atrocities in Gaza, is to listen to people like Abraham Aiyash and Ruwa Romman.
posted by overglow at 6:36 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

I do not want to get involved in yet another I/P derail, but as I just posted a link to Michael Chabon's t-shirt sale fundraiser, I'd like to point out that Israeli-American novelist and essayist (and Chabon's wife), Ayelet Waldman, was arrested by Israeli police while trying to deliver food to Palestinians inside Gaza.
posted by terrapin at 6:36 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

walz fever may have finally shaken the trump camp enough for something ... interesting to happen

(via truth.social from you know who, not linking to that shit):

"I will be doing a General News Conference 2:00 P.M. at Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach. Thank you!"

pure wild speculation on my part but if this is the vance exit it's gonna be hilarious to see that mumbling man-child pivot 180° and go back to slagging off trump. or continue to be his toadie. both suit me fine
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:40 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

But people also have to protest.

Trump and Vance events are also available for protest and heckling.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:43 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

Trump and Vance events are also available for protest and heckling.

Heckling about Palestine at a Trump event would feed right into his narrative.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:48 AM on August 8

I... really don't know what the heck else anyone could expect her to do in the middle of a stump speech to a crowd of thousands.

Well, and also, she's directly responding to the content of their chant - the "we won't vote" part. If they truly aren't going to vote (for her, or at all) then, in our 2-party, winner-take-all system, pragmatically, that is a vote for Trump. I don't think that's dismissive at all, I think she's taking what they're saying seriously. She was calling their bluff. They could be taking some other position than "we are threatening to withhold our vote in a close election " and they could have made their point and then let her continue her speech, but they did neither, and Harris needs to walk a very fine line here, one that means she cannot simply adopt the slogans of the protestors, even if she agrees with some or all of their concerns, and she absolutely cannot let them take control of a campaign rally; it would be a PR disaster, she would look weak and unpresidential, and would deliver a line of attack to the Trump campaign that she'd never be able to get over.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:49 AM on August 8 [57 favorites]

Trump and Vance events are also available for protest and heckling.

Why would anyone waste their breath? You don't spend everyone's precious time, dollars and legal aid on protesting the fascist toad who is always going to follow the money, you protest the person who might conceivably change something.

Remember that these protestors do not, in fact, have Soros dollars - these are amateurs or occasionally people with some low-paid marginal non-profit job. They are people who care enough to get heckled and sometimes threatened in their off hours, when many of the rest of us are either doing useful tasks or relaxing. They're risking jail and long-term legal consequences, and if there are long-term legal consequences, it will mean endless gofundmes to try to keep them out of jail and housed.

I've been on strike, I've gone into a couple of big meetings and stood with a few people and dropped a banner and got heckled and forced out, I've been on marches that got heckled and gassed. Frankly, while a few people face that stuff with zest, it's not actually especially fun and I only did it because I felt it was my moral obligation. If I can be at home catching up on chores and reading something fun, I will do that for preference.
posted by Frowner at 6:51 AM on August 8 [27 favorites]

In Axios’s business editor Dan Primack’s newsletter, Primack reports that Walz’s disclosures also do not indicate any mutual funds, bonds, private equities or other securities.

WTF? I'm assuming he has some sort of emergency fund. Is it stuffed in a mayonnaise jar buried in the back yard? (Probably just a savings account somewhere but that is kinda sub optimal, should at least be rolling it over in GICs or something).

Teacher pension plans or 401Ks? I still have mine because I worked a few years for a university in Chicago, there's a bunch of customized for education-pension-funds and programmes that seem to be better designed that the usual B2C retail products.
posted by infini at 6:52 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

(Also, what exactly is one to use as leverage with Harris? "We...won't send you a Christmas card"? "We won't put up a yard sign"?

"We won't vote" is the leverage that people have, other than, eg, burning down arms manufacturers, which frankly requires a much higher level of commitment.)
posted by Frowner at 6:54 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Why would anyone waste their breath?

To provoke Trump into saying something truly horrifying. To speak truth to power. For all the same reasons one might heckle at a Harris event, except that it might have desirable and productive electoral effects.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:55 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

"We won't vote" is the leverage that people have

Oh absolutely. I'm not saying the protestors should stop. Like you I think we need them. The democratic process has always needed protestors. I'm saying Harris doesn't have a lot moves in response in the middle of a rally, and also that her audience is not just the protestors and those who agree with them. She needed to: not dismiss them out of hand, not look like she was letting them take over the rally, and also reassure the many Democratic and swing voters who view the threat to not vote by the protestors as dangerous tunnel vision that could cost the election, and her response balanced that as best as could have been done, I think.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:57 AM on August 8 [31 favorites]

To provoke Trump into saying something truly horrifying.

He's already breathing, he doesn't need any more incitement.
posted by cendawanita at 6:59 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]

donald j. trump does not need "provocation" to say something horrifying. he says them all the time, has been saying them since the first time someone put a microphone in his face, and his fans love him for it. i mean there's a reason "surely this will spell the end of trump!" has become a meme at this point. there's many ways to take him down; goading him into puffing up his uglier side is proven not to be one of them
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:03 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

If folks didn't click overglow's link above to Palestinian Georgia state rep. Ruwa Romman on Twitter, she says something important that anyone who's been involved with protests in the past will probably nod at:

The @uncommittedmvmt leaders who met with Harris were not the same group protesting.

The idea that there were separate groups of protestors, one aiming for a quiet meeting and another aiming for loud disruption, who may or may not have been aware of each other's approach and may or may not have argued about those different approaches, is not an unusual one. Happens all the time.
posted by mediareport at 7:07 AM on August 8 [24 favorites]

timwalzfixedyourbicycle.com would work as an AskMe answer when someone's trying to figure out how to be a good person. Click through, make sure you're someone with the qualities of the Internet's imaginary great dad.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:08 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

I'm against upvotes on Metafilter on principle, but when a comment like Frowner's comes along I wish there was a way to highlight it more. Harris has to shut down the interruption firmly to show leadership, but please note that she met with the protestors afterwards and showed compassion and understanding for their position. That alone is a sea change, and if you expect more before the inauguration I'm afraid you are living in a world that is going to disappoint you.
posted by rikschell at 7:11 AM on August 8 [44 favorites]

Has anyone seen any reporting on who the protestors who interrupted the rally were? I've seen reports that Harris and Walz met with the leadership of the Uncommitted vote before the rally, and that the meeting went well.

I ask, because I'm curious if these protestors were going rogue, and against the wishes of the leadership of Uncommitted - or if this is what the leadership of that movement wanted.
posted by coffeecat at 7:12 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

These sorts of movements are not monolithic. They are also universally infiltrated by cops and shit-stirrers.
posted by rikschell at 7:19 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Teacher pension plans or 401Ks?

I was more meaning the kind of money one might have available in case the roof blows off your house or a fire burns down your town rather than living money.

But even then aren't 401ks normally at a minimum in some kind of mutual or index fund?

Anyways maybe he does just have his savings including the proceeds of the sale of his house in a savings account someplace. I've seen larger amounts owned by more frugal people in just such accounts.
posted by Mitheral at 7:22 AM on August 8

Yes, I know that - that's the reason I asked this question. I'm interested in if the leadership that met with her made a statement about the protests at the rally.
posted by coffeecat at 7:22 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Georgia State Representative Ruwa Romman posted on Twitter: "The
@uncommittedmvmt leaders who met with Harris were not the same group protesting."

From my experience being involved in organizing for the anti-war movement in the early aughts, there's likely to be many groups, varying from each other along both philosophical and tactical lines. So I wouldn't see it as going rogue because it's not like all the groups agreed to follow one plan, agreed who the leaders are, or even necessarily share all of the same goals.
posted by overglow at 7:24 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

She spoke with leaders of the uncommitted movement before her speech, at least according to the NYT.

I support the protesters, but I also think it's important for people to know that she didn't have to be heckled into speaking with them. Maybe I'm grasping at straws of hope for an end to our weapons being used to commit genocide, but that's where I am right now.

I also think there was a better way for her to firmly shut down the heckling; that particular line was really off-putting to me and is going viral in a damaging way. I hope she comes up with some better options, as there are for sure going to be continued disruptions in the future.
posted by misskaz at 7:25 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

Also, what exactly is one to use as leverage with Harris? "We...won't send you a Christmas card"? "We won't put up a yard sign"?

You don't have leverage. That's the point you keep missing. You have zero leverage on the topic until she is sworn in as President. Then you start shoving everyone and everything to the left as hard as you can. The only priority for non-fascist Americans has to be "make sure a fascist doesn't take office and implement Project 2025." Everything else is secondary, because if that fails, everything else fails too. "Uncommitted" can remain uncommitted as long as they want, it has less power than a toddler holding their breath until they turn purple because other people who understand are rushing in to fill the gap.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:26 AM on August 8 [35 favorites]

It's not for me to say if a one-time quote of "weapons...that I carried in war" is enough to hinge the serious accusation of stolen valor on, but it could possibly have some legs, and I figure that Walz will have to acknowledge it was bad phrasing at some point.

It’s not stolen valor. It’s…no one has yet made up a word for it, as far as I’m aware, but it’s a specific kind of technically-correct-but-not-correct-in-spirit veteran performativity that every veteran eye rollingly acknowledges is fine as long as you’re not using it against another veteran but only to get something done in government circles.

A similar example would be me yelling at a cop, “My buddies didn’t die face down in the sand with an American flag on their sleeve for you to spit on the Constitution by beating up protesters”. This is absolutely technically true, but any veteran would cheerfully point out the following actual points:
1) nobody actually died defending the freedom of speech, Iraq was a clusterfuck
2) the American flag was a required part of the uniform
3) some of my friends were conservative dicks that probably totally would have supported beating up protesters
4) while I had many friends who died from the Iraq War, only a couple were hit by IEDs and meet the visual implication; most of them actually died by suicide afterwards

Similarly, Walz’s statement is technically true, he carried weapons in war, because once a war is called you are always in it. He’s not *lying*. But definitely the implication for civilians is that he was clearing houses with his issued weapon rather than qualifying at the range and then checking his gun back into the armory.

However, Vance is also breaking the veteran contract by accusing him of *stolen valor* rather than just being like “C’mon, my dude.”
posted by corb at 7:30 AM on August 8 [44 favorites]

The fact that she acknowledged the protestors and didn’t call for vigilante violence against them seems like a positive difference between the two.
posted by funkaspuck at 7:33 AM on August 8 [18 favorites]

vance's whole thing is giving "swift boat veterans for truth" which was also based on absolute bullshit but still had legs and sure did kerry no favours
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:33 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

I'm making a 'Herman the German' hotdish for dinner tomorrow night!

I did too! Made a few tweaks based on what we had in the house, but it was well-received even though we aren’t generally big on casseroles.
posted by TedW at 7:38 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Thanks overglow, that's the information I was trying to find. I agree with misskaz I guess - I'm generally supportive of protest, and this protest movement specifically, but I also don't necessarily think more protest is always more effective - this seems to be a moment where it would be good for rank and file protestors (especially those who are allies and not Palestinian) to follow the lead of those with the most at stake (i.e. Palestinian Americans) and the most power to achieve some degree of leverage (i.e. various leadership). I'm well aware that will be hard given the nature of the movement - but that doesn't mean it isn't worth advocating for. (And yes, Harris should also workshop a better set of response lines - whether we like it or not, clips without context have a way of circulating)
posted by coffeecat at 7:45 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Not Trump” is pretty much all we know about her platform so far.

Look at everything she's been involved in the past 3.5 years, and before that. (While also remembering she's been constrained by being the VP, who supports the President. Tho, I think she did much behind the scenes in persuading certain actions.)

Look at speeches and interviews. Follow people on social who know a lot about her.

And to get another feel for her executive skills, observe how well she's managed this whirlwind transition.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:45 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

vance's whole thing is giving "swift boat veterans for truth" which was also based on absolute bullshit but still had legs and sure did kerry no favours

Kerry is a good guy and an ok politician but he's duller than dirt and shit at public speaking --especially extemporaneously. Based on what we've seen of Walz so far (and ordinary people who are popping up left and right to talk about what a great person he is), I don't think we're in danger of Swift Boat 2024. I'm sure he's got a deep bench of folks he served with and worked with in VA ready to shut Vance the fuck up and hard.

not to jinx it or anything 🤞🏻
posted by tzikeh at 7:46 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]

I think the whole "swift boat veterans for truth" thing got as much traction as it did because of the number of people who believed it was unpatriotic to oppose the war in Vietnam, and the general wave of "it is unpatriotic to oppose war in the Middle East" sentiment. Republicans were the patriotic party because they were pro-war; Democrats were the unpatriotic party even though they were just slightly less pro-war; therefore any dings you can make (even if bullshit) into the story of this particular Democrat's wartime heroism fit the narrative.

Just like the whole couchfucker thing. It's entirely made up, but it fits the narrative of Republican men being weird about sex.

So Walz's statement, yeah, it's a bit "C'mon, man," but I can't see it getting traction unless it can resonate with some larger narrative of What Walz Is Like or What Democrats Are Like, and for that reason, I think it's going to be hard for Republicans to make it stick.
posted by Jeanne at 7:48 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Voting for Kamala is how we keep moving toward the right?
posted by like_neon at 7:48 AM on August 8 [17 favorites]

You don't have leverage. That's the point you keep missing. You have zero leverage on the topic until she is sworn in as President. Then you start shoving everyone and everything to the left as hard as you can. The only priority for non-fascist Americans has to be "make sure a fascist doesn't take office and implement Project 2025." Everything else is secondary, because if that fails, everything else fails too. "Uncommitted" can remain uncommitted as long as they want, it has less power than a toddler holding their breath until they turn purple because other people who understand are rushing in to fill the gap.

Everyone has been saying this my whole life, and what happens is that liberals go back to brunch and complain that we're a buzzkill as soon as their president is sworn in. You protest when you have attention and can be an actual nuisance to the people you want to move.

You know that people hate strikes, right? And yet we wouldn't have any kind of worker protections without them. People hated the civil rights movement. People hate Black Lives Matter. If anyone is doing protest because they want to be loved or because you are expecting people to just nicely give you what you want when they see you're upset, I can tell you that you're in the wrong business. To be fair, I think that often this hatred is about inertia/stress rather than literally hating unions and civil rights, but in the moment it's all "WHY is UPS on strike" "HOW VERY DARE teachers strike" "the police MEAN WELL and it's just a bad apple who shot that guy", etc.
posted by Frowner at 7:48 AM on August 8 [27 favorites]

I don't think we're in danger of Swift Boat 2024. I'm sure he's got a deep bench of folks he served with and worked with in VA ready to shut Vance the fuck up and hard.

oh for sure, don't get me wrong. walz has more charm in his left pinky than kerry ever had in his entire body, and i have no doubt "stolen valor" accusations from an unpopular shitbishop like vance are likely to bellyflop. just noting the similarity of tactic. knock on wood and all that but so far it doesn't seem to be sticking to walz quite well at all
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:52 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

It’s always a good time to protest for war or genocide to end.
posted by creiszhanson at 7:53 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]

If you're doing it to make yourself feel better, yes. If you're doing it to stop war or genocide, then tactics and strategy matter.
posted by gwint at 7:59 AM on August 8 [23 favorites]

I think it's fair for Harris to redirect the focus of the speech to her right to finish the message that twelve thousand people showed up to hear. Her "I am speaking now" redirection reminded me very much of Obama's style of redirecting the focus to his message; I don't remember people criticizing Obama for those incidents.

Trump has already implied that world leaders will make a "playtoy" of her in negotiations; there's a very dark undercurrent to choosing that word to describe her. Think about the underlying expectations and standards applied to women and men in the political arena. There is very clearly a lot of misogyny behind these values.

I have friends who are very progressive and involved in a lot of progressive campaign organizing and definitely consider themselves feminists who have said to me "Hilary Clinton is too ambitious" and "Hilary Clinton has an overbearing speaking style and a shrill laugh". World leaders certainly didn't make a "playtoy" of her as Secretary of State. I now hear the same well intentioned people in my circle saying "Harris can't do this without Biden" and "She laughs when she shouldn't be laughing". It's a good time for people to reflect on their own subtle internalized Chauvinism.
posted by effluvia at 8:02 AM on August 8 [36 favorites]

REPORTER: You've been criticized for being a little too serious, even angry sometimes. What makes you smile? What makes you happy?

SEN. J.D. VANCE: I smile at a lot of things -- including bogus questions from the media, man. [laughs at own "joke"] Look, if you watch a full speech that I give, I'm having a good time out here and I'm enjoying this.

posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

And that folks is how we keep moving toward the right.

I really, really deeply want you to explain this, because I don't see it

You have a choice between a far right candidate and a moderate left candidate right now. That's the choice. You don't get some made up third choice. (I can see space for that third choice in the future, if the most progressive folks want to run someone like AOC for president, but that's for another time.)

So, by your logic .... voting for the left-most candidate and then using social pressure to move them farther to the left on your particular issue .... moves us right?

The fact that Harris even met with the Undecided leadership is a huge step, frankly. Biden would not have. Certainly Trump doesn't care. Harris' hands are somewhat tied (in public) on the issue until she stops being VP and is able to start charting her own course (whatever that may be).

As an aside, there seems to be this idea among certain leftists (I saw Hasan Abi state it straight out today in fact) that "it could be done with a 10 min phone call from the wh that ends with "no more weapons till you listen'" which feels to me like a very simplistic view of the situation. Netanyahu is not going to stop even if the US suddenly reverses position, throws up our metaphorical hands and says "nope, we're done, you're cut off". Worst case he gets his weapons elsewhere. Best case he continues to grind Gaza to dust with the resources he has. But either way this won't end until Netanyahu is removed from power, and that's certainly not going to happen with a ten minute phone call.
posted by anastasiav at 8:08 AM on August 8 [53 favorites]

SEN. J.D. VANCE: I smile at a lot of things

"i am a normal human man who enjoys humor, of which i know a great deal and am often enjoying publicly, where i can be seen by others enjoying it"
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:08 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

Everyone has been saying this my whole life

The unfortunate truth is that as long as our voting system is based on first-past-the-post it will continue to be this way.

Imagine you have a group of people coming together to determine who the best basketball player of all time is. There are a few names that are certain pop up. Michael Jordan, Lebron, Kobe Bryant, Stephen Curry, etc. But there's a lot of time to talk about this and hash out the merits of one over the other and at the end, everyone gets one vote for who they think should be crowned the GOAT.

People are going to have some firm ideas of who they think should not get the crown that others support. It will become clear over time that there are two players with the most support. Let's say it comes down to Jordan and Lebron. Now, Lebron might not be your first choice but you absolutely think Jordan is overrated and outshined by several other players. To a bunch of others, they might think Curry is better than Jordan but Curry doesn't have enough support and you think that Jordan is behind Curry but certainly ahead of Lebron so you'll throw your support behind Jordan.

You could do the same thing with writers, actors, etc. etc.

So your choices are basically between getting stabbed by Trump or getting a guy punch from Harris. The protestors are threatening to stab themselves rather than get punched.

This is why the thing that I really care about (particularly in dem primaries) is how loud they are about voter rights. To me the path to votes having actual leverage involves burying the GOP in the dust hard enough that far left dems are able to run independently and get enough votes to put the election at risk. That incentivises the dems to reform voting to introduce ranked choice (or just about anything other than what we have now) so most races effectively become between two democrats and more or less shuts the GOP down. Then there can be space for multiple parties and it turns voting your preference and voting strategically into the same thing.
posted by VTX at 8:12 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Worst case he gets his weapons elsewhere.

That would be okay.
posted by mittens at 8:13 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Yeah, anastasiav - why would we want to keep giving weapons to a genocidaire? Are we so concerned with the military industrial complex's profit margins that we can't event stop selling to genocidal states?
posted by sagc at 8:14 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

Wait, I thought the most important thing was to stop the genocide, but it turns out that the most important thing was to make sure OUR hands were clean all along?
posted by rikschell at 8:16 AM on August 8 [18 favorites]

I have to think that it's harder to get weapons from anyone other than the US as compared to the US so yeah, making it a little harder to get weapons means fewer weapons imported and fewer weapons deployed.

Even so, just morally, if the weapon supply isn't a lever the US can use I'd still rather not be actively supporting genocide.
posted by VTX at 8:20 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Everyone has been saying this my whole life

I do wonder if people get amnesia about it--like, clearly the democrats have some kind of versatile immune system that prevents criticism and hope-of-movement. You can't threaten to withhold your vote because the bad person will win. You can't expect a sitting president to do anything because they don't have the power. And then within two years there's another election to think about. We've seen that cycle play out repeatedly over the years in these MF conversations, and the great promise of "you can push them left when X" never seems to come to fruition.

Harris needs to be made angry and uncomfortable by the risk of the Good Vibes Tour being rained on by protestors. She knows she has to pull a coalition together, but the protests are a big visible reminder of that. I don't know if they're a big enough reminder of it, to accomplish anything.
posted by mittens at 8:20 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

rickshell - lol, what? How does giving weapons to Israel that they use to commit genocide better at stopping genocide than... not giving them weapons? Is this a return to the fantasy that all that's keeping things from being worse is America threatening to maybe, eventually, slightly reduce arms transfers? Because that's gone so well so far.

And there are people above saying Netanyahu will do the same thing no matter what materiel the US provides! You can't have it both ways - either we have to keep selling arms in order to prevent things getting worse (we have power over Netanyahu), or we have to keep selling arms because nothing we do matters (Netanyahu will continue the war with American weapons or without, so they better be American bombs).

This is why people feel like they can't stop talking or protesting about this, because it allows complicity in genocide to become an acceptable position and fade into the background. It also allows conservatives to say "where were you when"... and accuse protesters of being opportunists.
posted by sagc at 8:21 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

SEN. J.D. VANCE: I smile at a lot of things -- including bogus questions from the media, man.

The joke I saw was "Vance gets a softball down the middle and charges the mound."
posted by Navelgazer at 8:22 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

So your choices are basically between getting stabbed by Trump or getting a guy punch from Harris. The protestors are threatening to stab themselves rather than get punched.

this is not, in fact, what they are doing

they are exercising their democratic, constitutionally-protected right to air their grievances. doing so towards someone running for the most powerful office in the country is a perfect target for that. we do not need to make complicated basketball metaphors to understand this. they have a message, an object for their concerns, and a strategy for delivering it. which they did

the only way this could hurt harris is how she responds to it. it is the right of the people to peacefully and legally apply pressure to those in the seat of power, or aspiring to it, to exact change. this constant applied pressure has gotten the goods on more occasions than can be counted

we need to accept that people voicing legitimate grievances are not the enemy here. protests are supposed to be inconvenient, annoying even. but generations of annoying people have given us many great things that we take for granted today
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:23 AM on August 8 [17 favorites]

You have zero leverage on the topic until she is sworn in as President.

There's all sorts of leverage that can be applied during a campaign to push a candidate towards specific positions. And yeah, "now's not the time" is used over and over again - during a primary, during the campaign, during the honeymoon, during their time in office when they almost immediately start campaigning again...it's an easy thing to say, for sure.
posted by mediareport at 8:24 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

It's always zero leverage and then suddenly, it's brat summer and someone's a weird couch fucker. Turns out the lever's been at it unnoticed until someone drops out of the race, then all that released energy causes a celebrity to anoint a politician and some guy tweet out a joke, and some governor in good-natured annoyance expresses how he feels about the weird he-man haters club.
posted by cendawanita at 8:30 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Just like the whole couchfucker thing. It's entirely made up,

...is it though?
posted by From Bklyn at 8:32 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Historically speaking, in this country, almost every major advancement in civil rights or movement away from participation in atrocity began as protestors protesting and almost always the mainstream reaction was that they were inconvenient, annoying, etc. But almost always the topic became a topic at all because of the protests. Then thirty years later the protestors' perspective seems like common sense.

I'm sure this has been linked to before, but Martin Luther King Jr's Letter From Birmingham Jail is worth a read when thinking about the function and behavior of protestors.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:34 AM on August 8 [17 favorites]

I absolutely think we should cut off the flow of weapons to Israel, but I don't think it would be okay if he gets his weapons elsewhere. I think any policy that doesn't make it harder for Israel to rearm in general is a failure.
posted by rikschell at 8:40 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Perfect is the enemy of good, etc; not sure if the US has the power to prevent arms deals between other sovereign nations, but it sure does have the ability to stop directly arming Israel.
posted by sagc at 8:43 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

I don’t know if anyone said stop protesting, I certainly would encourage it! But I question the effectiveness of “we’re not voting” as a message or a lever.
posted by like_neon at 8:44 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

...is it though?

Other than the expectation that any young lad is likely to go through a phase that includes dry-humping the furniture, there is no reason to suspect Vance of fucking a couch and the only source has been a complete fabrication according to the author.

That said, I myself enjoy picturing vance in a 'My Life as a Dog' situation. Forever.
posted by stet at 8:44 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Oh, oh! I know just the perfect thing for the US to do there: STOP BLOCKING UN SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS AND RETRACT EVERY OBJECTION BRIEF TO THE ACTIVE ICC APPLICATION FOR THE WARRANT OF ARREST.

Also: stop lying that UN Security Council resolutions are non-binding

Also: actually implement the Leahy Law as it is intended

Also: ARMS EMBARGO

ALSO: Reverse the position that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel

Man, there's lots to do, poor widdle USA, my country only wishes it's got the same kind of buffet.
posted by cendawanita at 8:44 AM on August 8 [21 favorites]

Wait, NOW people are raising the perfect being the enemy of the good? Lol. While threatening to throw the election to Trump. Sheesh.
posted by rikschell at 8:46 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

I'm sure this has been linked to before, but Martin Luther King Jr's Letter From Birmingham Jail is worth a read when thinking about the function and behavior of protestors.

The key thing here is that King also had a movement that someone who wanted to stop the protests could call. King didn't get the Civil Rights Act from day dot. It doesn't seem like the protestors were willing to accept anything, especially given they didn't know she'd already met with pro-Palestine people.

Besides, I don't think it's only the politicians that the pro-Palestine movement needs to be working against. It's AIPAC. They're well-connected and well-funded, and America doesn't really have a comparable Muslim political movement for reasons I'm sure we can all imagine. If Harris flips her position and then gets snowballed with press about how she hates Jews and loves terrorists, then she's going to flip right back.

The left used to be good at building alliances, but between the sugar hit of flimsy hashtag movements that get tons of attention and activity, and then everything gets undone four years later by the counter-reaction because it didn't build a movement to defend its gains, and the narcissism of purity culture that suggests that someone who agrees with me 95% is just as bad as couchfucker Vance because they clearly don't understand how much harm that 5% does, the left is mostly pretty bad at it. Look at this thread! We had people bitching about those who wanted Biden to stay in the race who wanted a Democrat to win and are thrilled that a Democrat is now winning; the smallest of small differences and yet people would rather be Right than build trust.

What I hope, and imagine, those Uncommitteds said in that meeting was: you change the position on Palestine, and we'll deliver votes in the general, and try and blunt AIPAC's counter-attack.
posted by Merus at 8:48 AM on August 8 [18 favorites]

well it sure doesn't seem like "stop supporting genocide or we'll vote for you anyway" would be an effective message does it
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:49 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

well it sure doesn't seem like "stop supporting genocide or we'll vote for you anyway" would be an effective message does it

You don't say that part out loud. It's pretty simple. They got their attention, then kept pushing in a way that risks fucking us all over and would ensure that the thing they are pushing for absolutely will not happen. Surely you can understand how some might consider that a terrible strategy even if they agree with the goal.
posted by wierdo at 8:52 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Wait, NOW people are raising the perfect being the enemy of the good?

I mean people are talking about kind of a moral triage, right? Steps that are in the right direction while not being wholly sufficient to put everything right. Our active, eager, and profitable contribution to the genocide must stop--it might not cure the genocide, certainly not, there are other things that need to happen, but as a very first step, our finger has to be peeled off the trigger.
posted by mittens at 8:53 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

I have been thinking about this all night because someone I mostly admire posted on their stories that Kamala “was no different from the rest of them besides being brown with a uterus” in regards to Palestine. What even is that from the so called progressive left?

I believe protesting is important and can be effective but I think people forget who the audience of protests are. Or at least, assuming that the politicians are the target of protests (ie Kamala) is rather narrow and I think in this particular case, not effective.

The target of the message is the general population. It’s to raise awareness of the atrocities. Wake up our inner morals and sense of right and wrong. Freeing Palestine is obvious to you and me, but unfortunately it still is not to the general population.

Heckling Kamala that we won’t vote for her unless she does what we want will not win hearts or minds, it will cast what is a humanitarian crisis as a fringe left cause.
posted by like_neon at 8:54 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

I get that, I'm just not clear how cutting off your nose to spite your face is supposed to help.
posted by rikschell at 8:55 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

doomerism is assuming that any protests from the left will lose Harris the election
posted by sagc at 8:56 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Like the same people making the argument that if stopping the genocide is not on the table at least stopping our support for the genocide is better than nothing being the same people saying Trump and Biden are morally equivalent is not a moral calculus I can follow.
posted by rikschell at 8:58 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

Surely you can understand how some might consider that a terrible strategy even if they agree with the goal.

yeah i can understand that; i just disagree that this part is supposed to be "unspoken". unions make it very clear that workers can withdraw their labour from a business that doesn't meet demands. protesters don't even have the benefit of a seat at a negotiations table. the stakes need to be made clear

like i said, i honestly do not see this harming harris beyond how she responds to it. i think she's doing alright. i just cannot bring myself to be furious at people protesting genocide that's all
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:00 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Re: stolen valor… whoops
posted by Artw at 9:08 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

Given that she is still part of the Biden administration, what ability does she have to make any sort of pledges at this point? I am genuinely asking this from a place of curiosity.

Generally speaking, how much could she even deviate from Biden/current administration now or even after the convention?
posted by like_neon at 9:09 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

It's great to display public pressure. But it feels like pairing vote withholding and realistic demands (or unrealistic demands without the threat of letting Trump win) would have a better chance of paying off. Expecting Harris to denounce Israel during the campaign is just setting up your movement to fail. If moral purity is your only goal, fine, but once you admit that the perfect is the enemy of the good, it seems like trying to actually accomplish the good should be the priority.
posted by rikschell at 9:10 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

Protests themselves won’t lose the election, but disrupting rallies to make the candidate look bad or humiliate her run the risk of souring her vibes-based campaign. Disrupting rallies of the “protect trans kid” candidate feeds the media machine of the “project 2025” candidate.

A year from now I’d rather vehemently hate 20% of what my president’s doing instead of 100%.
posted by itesser at 9:12 AM on August 8 [30 favorites]

Re: stolen valor… whoops

god he is so bad at this lmao
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:12 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]

doomerism is assuming that any protests from the left will lose Harris the election

Protestors showing up yelling about withholding their votes at every event turning the vibes sour could absolutely suck the momentum out of the campaign. If the cool thing to do changes from voting Harris/Walz to staying home in protest, then yeah, it just gd might.

It's the withholding votes threat that's dumb. Things that increase the chances of another Trump presidency don't hurt Harris. If she loses she'll be fine, it's the rest of us that I'm worried about.
posted by VTX at 9:14 AM on August 8 [20 favorites]

I mean, a key bit of context here is that if the election was held tomorrow, currently polling shows a tossup, even if the Dems are on the right side of momentum. Interrupting a speech, forcing the candidate to react without having much time to think/calibrate her reaction (especially on a fraught issue for the party as a whole) does not strike me as the most effective means. Right now, we are close to the convention. It would be great if someone who represents the movement in some way could be part of the committee that writes the Democratic agenda at the DNC convention. A targeted campaign to make sure that happens could be an important step.
posted by coffeecat at 9:16 AM on August 8 [17 favorites]

People will always choose the safer path of criticizing within their in group.
posted by phunniemee at 9:17 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

It would be great if someone who represents the movement in some way could be part of the committee that writes the Democratic agenda at the DNC convention.

Not sure which of the links reporting on the protest mentioned this, but Uncommitted are sending 30 delegates to the DNC, and one of the people who spoke with Harris about an arms embargo is a DNC delegate.
posted by brook horse at 9:20 AM on August 8 [21 favorites]

Gonna have a hard time with any arguments about the wrong way to protest state sanctioned murder.
posted by iamck at 9:20 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

More on the Uncommitted delegates and their goals/strategy
posted by brook horse at 9:23 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

As far as I see it, this is where we're at. Yes the suffering of Palestinians needs to end. Yes there are no magic solutions. Choose your own adventure.

Harris campaign denies support for Israeli arms embargo in leader with Pro. Palestinian leaders [The Jerusalem Post]

"The Vice President is focused on securing the ceasefire and hostage deal currently on the table," according to the campaign spokesperson. "As she has said, it is time for this war to end in a way where: Israel is secure, hostages are released, the suffering of Palestinian civilians ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, freedom, and self-determination.”

Trump calls Biden a ‘bad Palestinian’ in US presidential debate jab [Al Jazeera]

Trump said Israel wanted the war to continue, and that it should. Asked whether he would support the establishment of a Palestinian state to secure peace in the region, Trump baulked. “I’d have to see.”

posted by mazola at 9:24 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

I'm very curious about this form of protest that people seem to be implying exists - one which does absolutely nothing to threaten Harris' election chances, while also still being defined as a "protest" rather than people just begging the campaign for consideration. Like, are we really setting the line at never "interrupting during a speech"? Is that how weak people see Harris/Walz 2024 as being?
posted by sagc at 9:25 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Gonna have a hard time with any arguments about the wrong way to protest state sanctioned murder.

I don't think so. I like what someone said upthread, what you're doing matters. You can protest it by going to a grocery store and punching holes in all the orange juice containers. Is that a tough argument to make about that being a wrong way to protest this genocide our tax dollars are paying for? No. That it is a wrong way to do that.
posted by cashman at 9:32 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

As far as I see it, this is where we're at. Yes the suffering of Palestinians needs to end. Yes there are no magic solutions.

Yes, this. Anyone who's losing it at Harris on this topic, um, you think Trump's gonna be better? RFK JR and his brain worms will improve the situation? If you don't vote for her because GENOCIDE, that's not going to solve the problem if you vote for the other numbnuts or not vote at all. You can't make anyone really solve the problem (other than stop funding bombs, which I agree with, but I know damn well I'm not an expert on foreign policy and hell if I know how this goes/doesn't go) who can solve the problem. I truly don't know what to say on this, other than going BUT GENOCIDE at Harris doesn't seem to get what you want either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:34 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

The assumption is that withholding votes will get Harris to change her position on genocide to regain those votes. It’s a coherent stance to take (which is separate from
whether or not it’s effective) but it is not the only strategy available, as shown by the Uncommitted leaders. Despite having the same goals and actually, the same leverage. My background in advocacy and behavioral sciences has generally shown me “I’ll do x if you do y” (we’ll campaign/deliver votes for you if you agree to an arms embargo) will work better than “I won’t do x unless you do y” (we won’t vote for you unless you agree to… well in this case we don’t have specific demands but let’s say arms embargo) as strategic messaging. Just ‘cuz that’s how humans work in general. But we’ll have to see if either strategy gains any traction.
posted by brook horse at 9:40 AM on August 8 [22 favorites]

Yes, this. Anyone who's losing it at Harris on this topic, um, you think Trump's gonna be better?

How many times have we heard this? Same shit over and over, as if people haven't thought about it.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:41 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Additionally, no one bats an eye when people say things like "The Dems should signal that they're going to enact pro-union policies in order to attract union voters" But when its "The Dems should signal that they're going to enact non genocidal policies in order to attract voters who aren't pro-genocide" its somehow the fault of the voters, not the fault of the party that's wishy washy on genocide?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:43 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Threatening to withhold your vote also has the effect of causing the campaign to strategize on how to win the election without that bloc of voters. And that means they push further away from you.
posted by azpenguin at 9:44 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

My personal take, after seeing her reaction at the 25 second mark of this TikTok is that it would be far better to work with her than against her. As a black son in America, I recognize a certain look that a black mom gives and that was very much "don't fucking push your luck at this point, in this place".

None of the above, which I again stress is a deeply personal take, means that I think the protestors should stop or that if it were me that I would stop arguing with her. But the protestors essentially did the equivalent of embarrassing her in public and interrupting her when she was doing her job of trying to make things better, which she seems to take to heart, so you've gone and pissed her off. Doesn't matter if you're in the rightest of right positions at that, you're going to get some pushback and resistance, just on principle.

One can argue whether that's the right or wrong attitude to take or that it's too much of the "cop in her" coming out at the wrong wrong place and time. But, again speaking just for me, if I was one of those protesters or head of them, I'd be reminded that the joyful Kamala makes a much better ally, and make a point of getting an apology to her and trying a different tactic.

All politics are personal and you've just gone and pissed one of the few allies you have at that level of power.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:46 AM on August 8 [59 favorites]

"The Dems should signal that they're going to enact non genocidal policies in order to attract voters who aren't pro-genocide"

Well, that’s what the Uncommitted leaders said (who are a separate group from the protestors), and no one here is criticizing that at all.
posted by brook horse at 9:47 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

I don’t think the risk to withhold votes is to the Harris campaign, I think the risk is to the Palestinians.

On preview: exactly this from Brandon Blatcher
All politics are personal and you've just gone and pissed one of the few allies you have at that level of power.
posted by like_neon at 9:48 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

but Uncommitted are sending 30 delegates to the DNC, and one of the people who spoke with Harris about an arms embargo is a DNC delegate.

Oh I missed that, thanks for bringing that up - that's great to hear!

Like, are we really setting the line at never "interrupting during a speech"?

No, I don't think that's what anyone here (at least not most people) are saying. If Harris was ignoring the Uncommitted movement, refusing to meet with anyone involved in organizing for Gaza, etc. then yes, I think a broad campaign of "making noise" and disruption would make sense. But given that her speech after meeting with Netanyahu signaled the potential for a pivot, she's reaching out to Uncommitted leadership and others, Uncommitted will have seats at the table at the DNC - at a certain point, the movement risks giving credence to the Centrist view of "leftists are children who will never be satisfied." To be perfect clear, I am not endorsing that view, just pointing out that there are risks to alienating people -risks that will impact the ability of the movement to achieve its aims. The past doesn't support the argument that more/louder protest is always more effective. Sometimes antagonism is good, other times the threat of the potential for antagonism is better (eg. when a union voting that membership approves a strike prevents a strike - happened once to a union I belonged to).
posted by coffeecat at 9:49 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

I'm curious about the press conference Trump just called. It's probably his usual nonsense and trying to get cameras to focus on him again. But...I can't help but wonder. He hasn't really done any rallies which is unusual and he's got to be seeing internal polls showing his chances at winning slipping away.

I don't want to jinx things, but I'm wondering if he doesn't withdraw from the race. Normally I'd say he's too much of a narcissist, but he did almost get shot and it's got to hurt seeing the size of the crowds showing up for his opponent. If he drops now, he can steal some of Biden's "elder statesmen, good of the country" feels and it won't be his fault when Harris wins.

Unlikely sure, but it would be in line with all the other crazy turns this Summer has taken.
posted by Eddie Mars at 9:51 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

"I will be doing a General News Conference 2:00 P.M. at Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach. Thank you!"

So I've definitely got a knot in my stomach about whatever TFG is about to serve up in an hour or so. We've had some extraordinary luck in the past few weeks not just with Dems being in "disconcerting array" (to quote AOC) but also in holding onto the news cycles while Trump, Vance, Cheung et al. have been flailing about. If they've managed to get their shit together to actually take it back in a better way than, say, the 24 hours of coverage of the NABJ, that's not great.

I think it's very possible that they're announcing replacing Vance (and counting on Ohio to agree that the September 1st deadline actually means September 1st, which they will for Trump and might not have for Harris) and if that's the case, I'd think the best bet would be that they're going with Rubio. I don't know if that would actually appeal to Latino voters, but it would certainly shake things up right when they're going better than could have been expected.

That said, I'm several levels of speculation in with all that, and who honestly knows what that fool will hold a press conference for other than the pure attention of it all. But the tiny part of me that's still been waiting for the other shoe to drop among all these good vibes is basically screaming right now.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:52 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

Harris is trying to appear open to change on the issue without triggering a massive attack by AIPAC. Demanding an embargo she would have no power to enact before January seems like it’s deliberately misunderstanding the politics Harris is constrained by. A lot of people here have said that personally those “withheld” votes are with a wink and they won’t let Trump win. Others not so much. I think Harris is walking the line as well as she can. I think the protests are a mixed bag, but they aren’t dampening my enthusiasm.
posted by rikschell at 9:53 AM on August 8 [30 favorites]

Bottom line, please don't let the moral righteous of a position (and wanting to stop the genocide of Palestine is absolutely THE moral right thing) allow you to think you can walk over anyone else or what they're doing.

One should not be timid in this, or any moral matter, but in the end, you want committed allies, not resentful ones who personally dislike you and half ass their support.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:57 AM on August 8 [26 favorites]

...but I'm wondering if he doesn't withdraw from the race.

He'd have to turn off all the automatic monthly donations he's currently getting the people have forgotten about or don't have the will to cancel themselves. He won't stop running for president as long as he breaths to keep that tap flowing.

But maybe there is some kind of mealy-mouthed needle he can thread where it's clear he's not effectively done without being leagally done in a "you have to stop taking donations" way. He's probably laundering money through his campaign in one or more ways.

He's not going to stop grifting but short of that, who knows?!
posted by VTX at 9:58 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Could he suspend the campaign (like McCain did that one time) but keep donations coming?
posted by mittens at 9:59 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Like, are we really setting the line at never "interrupting during a speech"?

Is anyone saying that? My position was (and is): the protestors should protest, but also, Harris can't respond in the middle of a rally in a way that makes it look like she's lost control or in a way that alienates voters (or in one that pits AIPAC, an influential group with lobbying power in Harris's own party) against her, and so the response she gave is probably as good as they're going to get from her after interrupting her and threatening to withhold votes. That doesn't mean they should stop protesting. Maybe, as several folks have suggested, threatening to withhold votes isn't the leverage they believe it to be (because it paints them into a corner where the campaign either takes their threat seriously, at which point there's no motivation to talk to them because they've already admitted they're not going to vote, or it assumes they're bluffing, which, again, means there's no strong reason to negotiate with them) and that other strategies (such as the ones outlined by brook horse) might be more effective.
And also, part of protesting is accepting the consequences of the protest action, which are often part of the protest's persuasive power. In this case, the consequences are that they got scolded in exchange for being given a momentary platform; not a bad trade-off, I think.

None of that, however, is any version of "the protestors should never interrupt during a speech."
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:01 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

I am hoping that the people who have been making these seemingly miraculous decisions that have gotten us Harris/Walz and the good vibes are also cognizant that protests happen during campaigns and that the optics of how they are handled can be used for the good of the campaign.
"I am speaking now" was likely a choice. It invokes her shutdown of Pence from the debates 4 years ago and points out her no-nonsense approach to misogyny. I think I'm going to trust this team to be in front of this issue.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:01 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

mittens: Could he suspend the campaign (like McCain did that one time) but keep donations coming?

Is this the "passive income" that all those sweaty YouTube dudes are always on about?

Usually they advocate for owning real estate, so "permanent political campaign" is certainly a novel approach!
posted by wenestvedt at 10:02 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Trump needs to win the presidency to avoid jail time. He has committed some really serious crimes.

It's more likely it is throw-vance-under-the-bus time. Or something about the huge sums he has to pay in his civil trials.
posted by mumimor at 10:05 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Every other appearance Trump has made over the past couple weeks has been the usual Word Salad, why wouldn't this be more of the same?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:12 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

I think the press conference is in response to planned events in the South being rained out and he is desperate to get some of the media attention that has been focused on the Harris campaign. The only way he's done that recently is to say the most offensive shit possible so I'd expect that more than some actual big announcement.
posted by gwint at 10:14 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

In both previous campaigns Trump has called for a super-important press conference multiple times, then, each time, presented a bunch of all-caps garbledy-garb fakeout. That's what today will be.
posted by argybarg at 10:15 AM on August 8 [18 favorites]

My personal take, after seeing her reaction at the 25 second mark of this TikTok is that it would be far better to work with her than against her. As a black son in America, I recognize a certain look that a black mom gives and that was very much "don't fucking push your luck at this point, in this place".

None of the above, which I again stress is a deeply personal take, means that I think the protestors should stop or that if it were me that I would stop arguing with her. But the protestors essentially did the equivalent of embarrassing her in public and interrupting her when she was doing her job of trying to make things better

Same here. And hers was actually the "you're lucky we're in public right now" reaction. If we were at home and I did something to earn that look, my mom's glare would turn me into an ant under the glare of the sun focused through a magnifying glass.

Thanks for your comment, since it reminded me why I'm taking some of this stuff really personally. You could never have told me when I was growing up that I'd have the chance to vote for someone who looked like me for president, have him win, then I get to vote for someone who is black like my mother. And then to have a horrific white dude on the other side, literally a rapist, felon, misogynist, racist, disgusting person having rallies and events (even at black organizations) and not having protests there, but then you gone come to her events and disrupt things. It just feels crappy.

With any luck, we can have the protests continue, the killings stop, peace achieved, and this ghoul Trump defeated once and for all.
posted by cashman at 10:15 AM on August 8 [51 favorites]

(oh god it's going to be an hour about how debbie made mar-a-lago's plumbing back up)
posted by mittens at 10:16 AM on August 8

Yeah, the most likely explanation for the presser is that Trump is jonesing for attention and it's a desperate bid for media.
posted by Justinian at 10:16 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

WaPo gift link exploring the attacks on Walz's military service, with quotes from the guy who replaced him in the guard and vehemently dislikes Walz and his politics, and I predict will probably show up as a guest of Vance at any VP debate. This part was new to me:

Walz and his political allies also have inaccurately described him as a retired command sergeant major, one rank higher than he holds in retirement. Walz himself did so in a video clip from 2006 that was surfaced by C-SPAN on Tuesday and in a 2018 clip posted on his own YouTube account. “I’m a retired sergeant major in the Army and the Army National Guard,” he told a group of voters in the latter video.

Though Walz did achieve the rank of command sergeant major, it was a provisional rank until he completed required coursework for senior leaders, National Guard officials said. He did not do so by the time he departed the military and his retirement rank reverted to master sergeant on May 15, 2005, officials said. Walz retired the next day. The Harris campaign declined to address why Walz has inaccurately said he retired as one. He has sometimes called himself a “former command sergeant major,” which is accurate.
posted by mediareport at 10:17 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Every other appearance Trump has made over the past couple weeks has been the usual Word Salad, why wouldn't this be more of the same?

Yes. I think it's just this and the desire to push the current attack of "Harris won't talk to the press," which (of course) the credulous NYT is repeating verbatim.
posted by The Bellman at 10:17 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Is anyone here going to watch the shitshow Trump press conference?
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:20 AM on August 8

A few comments to share…

1. In contrast to Walz stopping his speech to make sure an overheated attendee gets water, here’s audio of Trump on the Howard Stern show (via Reddit) sharing an endearing anecdote about how an elderly man fell at one of his events and he didn’t want to help him because he thought it was disgusting and making a mess, until some Marines in attendance ran up and did the right thing.

2. RE Vance and the rumor about couches, if he didn’t want to be known as a couchfucker, then maybe he shouldn’t fuck so many couches?

3. Seeing yet another hundred or so comments debating I/P in this thread…you know what? Never mind.
posted by darkstar at 10:22 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

Though Walz did achieve the rank of command sergeant major, it was a provisional rank until he completed required coursework for senior leaders, National Guard officials said. He did not do so by the time he departed the military and his retirement rank reverted to master sergeant on May 15, 2005, officials said. Walz retired the next day. The Harris campaign declined to address why Walz has inaccurately said he retired as one. He has sometimes called himself a “former command sergeant major,” which is accurate.

Yeah, in this case I’d back Walz over Big Army. Your retirement rank is the rank you held when you retired. Big Army playing fuck fuck games and yanking your rank back one day before you retire is…let’s just say no honest veteran is going to think less of Walz for that.
posted by corb at 10:25 AM on August 8 [41 favorites]

NBC news has the schedule for the day listed as bullet points and this is what is listed for the Trump press conference: "Trump will hold a news conference at 2 p.m. ET on Harris' campaign agenda and record on immigration issues."
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:26 AM on August 8

Is anyone here going to watch the shitshow Trump press conference?

Oh, I physically cannot bring myself to do so, so I hope someone of greater fortitude than mine fills us in on it.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:27 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Is anyone here going to watch the shitshow Trump press conference?

I have firmly committed to not giving traffic to Trump stories unless they are actually what I would consider newsworthy or are more comprehensively about the election.
posted by Captaintripps at 10:28 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Is anyone here going to watch the shitshow Trump press conference?

Oh, the Harris campaign definitely will, they're gonna get far more mileage out of this than Trump.
posted by azpenguin at 10:30 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

And hers was actually the "you're lucky we're in public right now" reaction.

It remined me of when mother-of-five Nancy Pelosi shushed House Democrats with a glare. (Caution: article includes photo of the glare.)
posted by kirkaracha at 10:32 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

corb, I say go ahead and do that now.

And I'm probably going to listen to the news conference at least (my hunch is it'll be on NPR and I've got the radio on).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:32 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

I swear to god Vance is going to piss me off enough at some point to do a full Veteran Rebuttal and attack piece on his nonsense service claims which are *way* more bullshit than anything Walz has said, and start emailing them to every fucking reporter I have an email address for.

Many local papers these days are running guest columns from members of the public, and letters to the editor is also still a thing. The latter is a lesser option but if one of your local outlets will agree to let you run something, never hurts to ask...
posted by azpenguin at 10:32 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

For those interested, cendawanita has just posted a new thread on Israel/Palestine conflict. (Thank you!)
posted by darkstar at 10:37 AM on August 8 [19 favorites]

Trump calls Biden a ‘bad Palestinian’ in US presidential debate jab [Al Jazeera]

You know what I remembered fondly about that moment? I was following the live commenting here and no one noted it at all. Oh sure there were at least two comments much later, commenting on the lack of comments. :)
posted by cendawanita at 10:37 AM on August 8

I've had a hard time giving any thought to Vance saying jack shit about Walz' military record when his running mate is Bone Spurs Trump.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:39 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

From "the twitter menswear guy" Derek Guy Tim Walz’s Camo Cap Is More Important Than You Think
posted by anastasiav at 10:48 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

It’s been memory-holed but Obama was heckled all the time by the very groups that Democrats once ignored but now praise
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:48 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Going by the dates of the articles, he was already president. I think everyone supports holding a Harris administration to account but we need a Harris administration first.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:51 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

corb: I swear to god Vance is going to piss me off enough at some point to do a full Veteran Rebuttal and attack piece on his nonsense service claims which are *way* more bullshit than anything Walz has said

*adds popcorn to grocery list.*
*and ice. It's gonna get HOT in here!*
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:51 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

Is anyone here going to watch the shitshow Trump press conference?

C-SPAN in an incognito window at work gang rise up
posted by phunniemee at 10:52 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

This week has been rough on work productivity in a completely opposite way to previous weeks.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on August 8 [21 favorites]

As an experienced Trump press conference watcher: there is a very good chance that he will be late.
posted by box at 10:58 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

Look at the joy in the pics from the Harris Walz Detroit rally via Wonkette.
posted by jointhedance at 10:58 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

From anastasiav's Camo Cap article:

Some corners of the internet are already responding to Walz’s Car Talk chic. “He might run for vice president, or he might clean the garage. It’s the weekend; anything can happen,” read one viral tweet. “BREAKING: Potential running mate Tim Walz spotted outside VP Kamala Harris’ residence ‘tweaking the lawn mower’s carburetor’ because he ‘didn’t like that darn knocking sound it was making,’” joked USA Today columnist Rex Huppke. One X user called Walz an “REI hire.”

posted by Glinn at 10:58 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

JD Vance accused Kamala Harris of running her campaign "from a basement with a teleprompter" while he's literally stalking her from one massive rally to another. (And recycling Trump's basement "dig" against Biden from 2020.)

Meanwhile Old Man Trump "is holding far fewer rallies than he did in 2016 and has held far fewer public appearances than he did in 2020" and his only campaign appearance during a week where Harris is all over the swing states is in Montana. Sad! Low energy! No stamina!
posted by kirkaracha at 10:58 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

Worst case he has COVID, best case PTSD. In the middle he’s just sulking because this started seeming like work.
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

I’m going out on a limb and making a prediction now:

Based on the polling trends (yes, yes, I know), and unless there is some major upheaval or October Surprise, I think Harris/Walz narrowly win most of the battleground states, including Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia.

I think they’ll probably come really close in Florida, but not quite take it. (Happy to be proven wrong there, though!)

This would roughly amount to an EV tally of Harris 319 vs Trump 219.

Standard caveat: we need to get out and Vote to make it happen!
posted by darkstar at 11:04 AM on August 8 [20 favorites]

Inshallah.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:04 AM on August 8 [23 favorites]

From much earlier in the thread:

Okay, since we're doing this. Here is one of the stories Vance wrote when he was in and serving as Cpl Hamel. https://www.2ndmaw.marines.mil/News/Article-View/Article/522765/cmc-smmc-visit-warriors-on-front/ I just searched james hamel marines and it came up...Some parts of public affairs are easy, at least compared to jobs more focused on combat, but its quite likely that he saw a lot more than you realize.

I appreciate that some military public affairs jobs, like photographers documenting crashes on base, might be traumatic, Art_Pot, but that story you linked doesn't seem to be evidence of that in Vance/Hamel's case (it's basically a quick report of top brass sitting down at "an early morning breakfast with Marines handpicked for excellence").

Here are a few more Cpl James D. Hamel articles; they all seem pretty fluffy, but I know very little about military service:
Houston native comes full circle in Iraq
VMGR-252 air crews make mission possible in Iraq
MWSG-27 transfers authority to MWSG-37 in Iraq
California paper adds 2nd MAW pilot to list of '2005 Military Women of Merit'

It would be interesting to see more of his PA work and compare it to what he's claimed about serving, and would also be good to see anyone's thoughts on the military service in the Vance campaign bio corb linked earlier.
posted by mediareport at 11:04 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump, paraphrased: Street gangs will cause the greatest depression since 1929.
posted by mittens at 11:09 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

The Mar a Lago goon coming right out of the gate off topic. We are very close to a world war. In his opinion.
posted by phunniemee at 11:09 AM on August 8

"[Walz] is heavy into the transgender world." - Trump

lol what
posted by phunniemee at 11:10 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

TFG started speaking. So far, it's we're about to have an economic depression and world war 3. Now he's complaining about running against Kamala instead of Biden again. So far, it's just word salad. Seems like a waste of time.
posted by Eddie Mars at 11:10 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

He misses Joe Biden so bad. 😢
posted by brook horse at 11:11 AM on August 8 [18 favorites]

Don't you think he looks tired?
posted by brook horse at 11:11 AM on August 8 [28 favorites]

"Frankly, I'd rather be running against Biden than the other person."
posted by Clustercuss at 11:11 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

A Press Conference about nothing.
posted by mazola at 11:11 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

What's up with his breathing? Is he stopped up?
posted by mittens at 11:11 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Is there goo all over the mic stand? What is that?
posted by phunniemee at 11:13 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Trump is to appear at a "press conference" this hour at Mar-a-Lago. (It's only a press or news conference if the speaker takes questions). One of his former White House press secretaries, Stephanie Grisham, says Trump hastily scheduled the event because "he's panicking. I’ve seen this play many times. He thinks his team is failing him & no one can speak better/“save” his campaign/defend him but him. He hates the coverage Harris is getting & thinks only he can fix it." [@w7voa | Mastodon]
posted by mazola at 11:13 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

I guess it’s COVID then. Oh well.
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

In response, Walz will post a list of his favourite Trans Siberian Orchestra songs.
posted by Captaintripps at 11:14 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

Trump’s campaign and various Republicans were desperately floating “Kamala Crash” to describe the market correction on Monday.

I will note that the market has quickly rebounded from the Japanese carry trade issue, and the Dow is now 39,457.50, which is up 0.3% from a month ago.

Womp, womp!
posted by darkstar at 11:14 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

This is just a stump speech, he could have just said all this at a rally.

However, him doing this as a press conference means he is going to take questions from reporters. And some of those could be DELIGHTFUL.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:14 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

Mental institutions on steroids are being emptied out all over the world.
posted by mittens at 11:15 AM on August 8

Nasty women merch is gonna make a comeback!
posted by brook horse at 11:16 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Can live coverage of a Trump press conference go somewhere other than the Harris/Walz thread?
posted by itesser at 11:16 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

It's not an open press conference where any reporter from any outlet can show up. It was invitation only. So TFG won't be asked any hard questions.
posted by orange swan at 11:16 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

"I know a lot of people on the other side, believe it or not." - former President of the United States, admitting he [checks notes] is aware of some Democrats
posted by phunniemee at 11:18 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

I guess it’s COVID then.

For what it's worth, WaPo Experimentation and New Formats editor Jamal Jordan was at NABJ and posted this on Twitter two days ago:

Someone made fun of me for wearing a mask and using Covid nasal spray at NABJ but I know more than 15 people who left Chicago and tested positive, so please, use this tweet as your sign to start masking up again!

I haven't been following his public appearances at all (god bless you folks who can bear to watch him) but I'm hearing Trump's been low-key since his appearance on the NABJ stage?
posted by mediareport at 11:18 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

This is just a stump speech, he could have just said all this at a rally.

This could have been an email.
posted by charred husk at 11:18 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

Can live coverage of a Trump press conference go somewhere other than the Harris/Walz thread?

I would support the creation of another thread, to keep this one from getting irredeemably polluted.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:18 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

She never went to the border. She went to the border once. But it was a nice part of the border.
posted by box at 11:19 AM on August 8

Democrats Take Early ‘Top of the Ticket’ Lead Following Arizona’s Primary Election [HighGround Poll]

In the race for President, the survey revealed that Harris is starting with a slim lead – earning 44.4% of the vote compared to 41.6% of likely voters casting their support for Trump. The 2.8 point lead is within the survey’s margin of error. Harris’ lead is bolstered by 86.5% of the Democratic base, whereas Trump is earning 79.5% of the Republican base, a slippage that was also witnessed by other MAGA candidates in Arizona in 2022. Essential independent and unaffiliated voters are also initially breaking by about 7.2 points for Harris.

posted by mazola at 11:20 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

I would support just not live covering the presser. There's no there there.
posted by solotoro at 11:20 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

(there's not going to be enough material to warrant another thread, from the way this thing is going)
posted by mittens at 11:21 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Can live coverage of a Trump press conference go somewhere other than the Harris/Walz thread?

Perhaps the "weird" thread because I suspect he'll be saying some weird shit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:21 AM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Military Times: JD Vance represents veterans on ballot, but some ask, ‘At what cost?’

While some veterans view Vance’s nomination as a symbolic win for U.S. veterans and service members, others see his rise as a threat to democracy and foreign policy. They also frown upon his alignment with Trump after Vance initially criticized the former president.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:21 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

I do wonder how the prospect of inheriting a prior administration's policy of genocide enablement might trouble Walz' conscience, since he was a geographer and one who taught genocide, thought deeply about it.

Can't believe the reinvigorated Dem ticket has me coming around here posting Político articles but whatever here we are.

I remember him being one of the few adults who would pretty openly talk about genocide. He spoke a lot about genocide in Cambodia. Some of these terms that he would throw out, like “killing fields” — I remember on a trip to Cambodia, I got to go to Phnom Penh and see the prisons and killing fields. And I thought, “Oh my God, that’s what Walz was talking about.”

I remember starting that discussion by getting inside the heads of lawmakers and politicians and dictators. I think we did a little bit of reading on Pol Pot himself, because to us that was such a faraway place as a 15- or 16-year-old. I think the hook was just trying to get inside the heads of dictators and leaders who overstepped their boundaries.

I wonder the same for Harris, too. Her proximity is much closer and her power to influence not much greater, but whatever you want to say about Harris career trajectory (I share the critique of her), a career "foreign policy guy" like Joe Biden spends a lot more time and effort becoming morally acclimated to helping kill 40k + people than someone like Harris. It's not like she signed up to look at Instagram videos of people carrying their dead children, remains around in garbage bags any more than we did. I hope they win and decide to fix our positioning here and get more constructively toward a ceasefire.
posted by kensington314 at 11:24 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

I would support the creation of another thread, to keep this one from getting irredeemably polluted.

As this thread is now over 1200 comments, it’s probably nearing its maximum functional length, anyway.

Though, I understand the Mods aren’t excited about having a perpetual US Politics Megathread for the next 90 days. So I’m not sure when the next big news event might occur to warrant a new thread.

(The Dem Convention is Aug 19-22, so that seems like it could justify a new thread, but I suspect we may benefit from one more before then, as that’s 11 days away.)
posted by darkstar at 11:25 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

darkstar, if Harris wins North Carolina I will make enough cake to invite you and everyone else from this thread. Heck, any MeFite ever is invited! Cake and beans for all!!!
posted by rikschell at 11:28 AM on August 8 [26 favorites]

I had to give up and close the video when every bridge in America collapsed due to the electric truck mandate.
posted by mittens at 11:28 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

had to give up and close the video

Ceased live updates out of respect for the above comments but you missed him saying people are coming in from "countries unknown, countries we've never heard of." I liked that one a lot. Okay I'm done.
posted by phunniemee at 11:29 AM on August 8 [23 favorites]

> Cake and beans for all!!!

worst hotdish evar
posted by Clowder of bats at 11:30 AM on August 8 [13 favorites]

I think they’ll probably come really close in Florida, but not quite take it. (Happy to be proven wrong there, though!)

Now writing get your Vote By Mail ballot postcards to Florida Democrats through Postcards to Voters. Abortion care is on the Florida ballot in November and needs a 60% margin to pass. Vote By Mail ballots increase voter turn out. Join me in writer's cramp!
posted by jointhedance at 11:30 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

I've gotta be a bit careful not following in this AEI guy's shoes:

Reality Check: Dude, Where’s My 2008 Recession?

or Kudlow's infamous:

https://www.nationalreview.com/kudlows-money-politics/recession-what-recession-larry-kudlow/

Bush's 2nd term was floated on a colossal debt bubble:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1rsCC (YOY consumer debt take-on / total wages)

and when that all popped in 1H08 so went McCain's chances.

I am guardedly optimistic about the economy this election year even though the lower 3 quintiles aren't doing so hot in it.

I just think the 330,000 boomers retiring every month is a new dynamic that is going to be countercyclical in a meaningful way.
posted by torokunai at 11:31 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Sorry I'm not done yet one more. He getting BIG MAD now. Telling people they're asking him stupid questions, raising his voice. Yeeey
posted by phunniemee at 11:32 AM on August 8 [9 favorites]

He getting BIG MAD now. Telling people they're asking him stupid questions, raising his voice.

In an invitation-only press conference? That's telling.
posted by grubi at 11:33 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

One X user called Walz an “REI hire.”

I'm keeping that one.
posted by azpenguin at 11:33 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

Is he malfunctioning?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:34 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

I absolutely don't care and am very, very sick of having to hear what Trump has to say, but does anyone have bingo cards out for sharks/Lecter references?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:34 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

From weird to unhinged
posted by rikschell at 11:35 AM on August 8

Is he malfunctioning?
posted by They sucked his brains out!

...lol
posted by phunniemee at 11:35 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

My dream questions:

When you say "Make America Great Again," when specifically was America great, and for whom?

You said, "Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it." Why didn't you?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:35 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

torokunai, you are speaking my language!

Data Analysis / Pundit Accountability 2024 is the hot ticket! “We’re Not Going Back!”
posted by darkstar at 11:35 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Is he malfunctioning?

No, he's working normally. If he were making sense they'd have to call the techs out to fix him.
posted by azpenguin at 11:35 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

Anyone want to organize an effort to dust off Chat for future election livewatching? This is probably a terrible idea for many reasons but also, it's right there.
posted by brook horse at 11:35 AM on August 8 [12 favorites]

What if we did a combined megathread/fundraiser for $1 a comment?
posted by rikschell at 11:36 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

@KamalaHQ [BSKY Mirror]:
"A feeble Trump holds a press conference to lie and yell about his noticeably smaller rally crowd sizes"
posted by The Bellman at 11:37 AM on August 8 [15 favorites]

Gosh, he said Kamala Harris destroyed San Francisco and the state of California, which is disconcerting because I live in Alameda, right across the bay. San Francisco was there this morning, did she destroy it since breakfast?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:38 AM on August 8 [21 favorites]

I absolutely do not want a live stream or any other stream of anyone telling me anything that he has to say, ever
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:38 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

@KamalaHQ [BSKY Mirror]:
"A feeble Trump holds a press conference to lie and yell about his noticeably smaller rally crowd sizes"

God I love Kamala and Tim.
posted by darkstar at 11:39 AM on August 8 [10 favorites]

> Cake and beans for all!!!
worst hotdish evar

Cake, beans, and mushroom soup then.
posted by MtDewd at 11:40 AM on August 8 [16 favorites]

When you say "Make America Great Again," when specifically was America great, and for whom?
("I will say, the things this radicals have done to ruin America," gibberish)

You said, "Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it." Why didn't you?
("I did," gibberish)
posted by argybarg at 11:40 AM on August 8

Trump Says He’s Accepted Three Debates

Donald Trump claimed he’s agreed to three presidential debates with the following networks:

Fox on September 4
ABC on September 10
NBC on September 25

He said he wants Harris campaign to “agree to terms” and he is looking forward to debating her.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:42 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

That's such weird phrasing. Does he mean he proposed 3 debates? If he accepted them, who offered them?
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:46 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

"The enthusiasm is with me and the Republican Party."

OK boomer.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:47 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

He’s “accepted” three debates from whom? The gremlins that rent out the fetid swamp between his ears?

We have one debate scheduled for which there’s been agreement: Sep 10 with ABC.

We’ll see you there, BoneSpurs.
posted by darkstar at 11:48 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

(I’d furthermore be reluctant to schedule any debates before the scheduled Sep 10 event, as it could step on the momentum coming out of the Dem Convention taking place Aug 19-22.)
posted by darkstar at 11:50 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

This is the second Kamala Harris thread in a row that the comments here have completely derailed by a Trump event. Maybe you're letting Trump win by doing this to what had been a really great thread about Harris and Walz.
posted by hippybear at 11:51 AM on August 8 [8 favorites]

i'm sorry i let trump win. i promise to do better in 2028.
posted by mittens at 11:53 AM on August 8 [36 favorites]

The thread's job is not to maintain Harris's momentum. Talking about a Trump conference (as opposed to making a different thread about it) seems an appropriate use of space, especially since prior to this, the conversation had degenerated into I/P discourse part 1578.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 11:53 AM on August 8 [14 favorites]

> if Harris wins North Carolina I will make enough cake to invite you and everyone else from this thread. Heck, any MeFite ever is invited! Cake and beans for all!!!

For this I might make the drive to Asheville! (And include a stop at the Charlotte Ikea since it's on the way and the Triangle still has no Ikea. Can I blame JD Vance for this Ikea-less state?)
posted by research monkey at 11:54 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

We're talking about Trump over here and this thread is also starting to wheeze anyway
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:54 AM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Axios post on Walz and his “Midwestern Dad Energy”, along with lots of heartwarming links!
posted by darkstar at 11:55 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Maybe you're letting Trump win by doing this to what had been a really great thread about Harris and Walz.

Trump is relevant. The Harris campaign is important precisely because the alternative is Trump. And Trump is reacting to Harris' momentum.

But that aside, Trump isn't going to win anything because of a MF thread.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:55 AM on August 8 [7 favorites]

I do not see a dumb Trump event as worthy of the front page or the sanctity of the comments as needing defending.
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

I do think other there is a better place for weirdo analysis though. Thanks EmpressCallipygos.
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

In any event (<—- see what I did there?), thank you EmpressCallipygos for the link to the active Trump is a Weird Fascist thread. :)
posted by darkstar at 11:59 AM on August 8 [3 favorites]

More Walz "Midwestern Dad Energy":
Tim Walz, Kamala Harris' running mate once helped WWL anchor get her vehicle out of Minnesota ditch
posted by research monkey at 11:59 AM on August 8 [11 favorites]

count me as a vote for actually not having perpetual megathreads they result in me spending too much time on metafilter cause the stat i'm minmaxing for is favorites per comment and the way to cheese that is to comment as much as possible on election megathreads w/ a spicy melange of oddball jokes that look like serious analysis and serious analysis that looks like oddball jokes and like i have a tendency toward addiction and am moreover basically an unfillable sucking void of need for approval in the shape of a zany pseudonym and look i would very much like to get some work or at the very least some non-metafilter writing done is what i'm saying

please send help
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:04 PM on August 8 [38 favorites]

I can send beans
posted by rikschell at 12:05 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

help
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:07 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

[updates my notes on "strats for minmaxing keeping bombastic lowercase pronouncements spending way too much time on metafilter"]
posted by brook horse at 12:10 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Via Newsweek: Vance’s favorability among college students drops 28 points in one month.

Republican vice-presidential candidate J.D. Vance has been stung by a double-digit dip in his net favorability among college students in the last two weeks, according to a fresh poll.

Vance's net favorability has suffered the most among college graduates, where it dropped 28 points to -27 percent in August, compared to +1 percent in July.

Vance's decreasing net favorability arrives amid continued scrutiny of his past comments about women in abusive relationships, abortion, and people without children, as well as his strong involvement with Project 2025…

posted by darkstar at 12:17 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]

> San Francisco was there this morning, did she destroy it since breakfast?

*Looks around* Nope, still here! Sun's coming out, even.
posted by gingerbeer at 12:17 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]

the stat i'm minmaxing for is favorites per comment and the way to cheese that is to comment as much as possible on election megathreads

hey, you're not supposed to talk about metafilter speedrun strategies outside the discord
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:19 PM on August 8 [16 favorites]

Commentary on Shapiro, Harris, Walz speeches in Philadelphia from Breaking the News blog.
posted by jointhedance at 12:19 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

> hey, you're not supposed to talk about metafilter speedrun strategies outside the discord

you're not my real dad!
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:20 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

METAFILTER: basically an unfillable sucking void of need for approval in the shape of a zany pseudonym and look i would very much like to get some work or
posted by philip-random at 12:22 PM on August 8 [14 favorites]

College students think about JD Vance?
posted by mittens at 12:26 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

College students think about JD Vance?

I know this was a joke, but it's worth saying that, for most college students, this is their first presidential election, and colleges are generally politically active places. I would imagine The Couch Fucker is a constant topic of conversation on campuses across the country.
posted by tzikeh at 12:29 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Plus he thinks about their genitals constantly, that’s going to be concerning.
posted by Artw at 12:33 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

It seems Vance's favorability dropped from +1 to -27 in a couple of weeks. So basically, he got a tiny favorable rating while very few knew who he was, and dropped precipitously as soon as his face and words contacted the public.
posted by Babblesort at 12:33 PM on August 8 [17 favorites]

I would imagine The Couch Fucker is a constant topic of conversation on campuses across the country.

...And I imagine that it will be a popular nickname around the keg, among quad roommates and frat brothers when they return to campus in about twenty days.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:34 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

"[Walz] is heavy into the transgender world." - Trump

trump has clearly been lurking in our discord, shit, he's on to us
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 12:40 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

College students think about JD Vance?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be college graduates, which is what it says in the second paragraph of the article.
posted by svenx at 12:41 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

And the first mainstream paper to carry water for Vance's Swiftboating of Walz is...The New York Times! Finding Gravity has details on how the New York Times is privileging the lie.
posted by rednikki at 12:52 PM on August 8 [16 favorites]

NYT is fucking awful and always has been regarding Trump (and trans issues, and and and). It's ridiculous people still act like it's a valid paper. I'm so sick of hearing their nonsense.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:53 PM on August 8 [14 favorites]

Trump and Harris are locked in tight race among voters in swing states: New Ipsos swing state polling finds most would like to see a code of ethics and term limits for the Supreme Court [Ipsos poll]

A new poll of Americans living in the swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona and Nevada finds Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump are in a statistical dead heat for the presidency. The survey shows that many people in swing states are concerned with inflation, immigration, and political extremism or polarization. When asked how the candidates perform on these, Trump outperforms Harris on inflation and immigration, while neither candidate has a clear lead on the issue of political extremism and polarization.

posted by mazola at 12:55 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]

Thank you for reminding me of "privileging the lie," that is exactly what they love to do.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:55 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

And the first mainstream paper to carry water for Vance's Swiftboating of Walz is...The New York Times!

The New York Times is the Washington Times for snobs.
posted by jointhedance at 12:58 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Looks like the September 10 debate is definitely on!
posted by rikschell at 1:01 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

i haven't lived in the u.s. in a while, is abc still the boomer network? bc if so, if she nails that debate that could seriously do wonders
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:04 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]

Note on that Ipsos poll:

previous (June 2024) poll had Trump 50% vs Biden 47%;
current (August 2024) poll has Harris 50% vs 48% Trump.

Both statistical ties, but the positions flip.
posted by mazola at 1:05 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]

College students think about JD Vance?

The couch fucker thing is "funny" in a rude but not really transgressive way that is acceptable low brow humour. As proven here and in mainstream media there is essentially an endless number of ways to reference the couch fucking thing via double entendre. I mean the guy at my work who tells a little joke during morning stretches made a couch fucking reference on Sunday and better than 50% of the people got it immediately; and I'm in Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 1:07 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]

look i would very much like to get some work …done is what i'm saying

Metafilter is helping get the internalized capitalism out! Metafilter mega threads are friend! Relax and let metafilter political megathreads help you!
posted by corb at 1:12 PM on August 8 [17 favorites]

bose makes a dollar i make a dime that's why i beanplate on company time
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:14 PM on August 8 [28 favorites]

This would roughly amount to an EV tally of Harris 319 vs Trump 219.

Wait a minute...are you tempting the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:15 PM on August 8 [14 favorites]

JD = Jizzy Davenport
posted by kirkaracha at 1:15 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

RE: Live reacting. I don't care for the series of out-of-context one line comments but I do appreciate getting some info about what's going on. I'd just ask that folks take notes and drop some highlights in solid chunks with maybe a bit of context. Trump having a press conference where he melts down or head explodes or something is relevant to the Harris/Walz campaign, I'd just like more substantial updates.

I'm totally down for chat being the default for live reacting being the default going forward through the election season. Then someone from chat can put together a more substantial comment to update the thread.
posted by VTX at 1:16 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

This would roughly amount to an EV tally of Harris 319 vs Trump 219.

Please, folks, I'm excited too, but let's take a deep breath.
It's early August.
There are approximately 17.4 Earth years until the election.
posted by The Bellman at 1:20 PM on August 8 [21 favorites]

I just had the thought of making a stuffed JD "on" a couch, with a cat also on it, shitting.

Um, seriously, dragging through this manual is dull and confusing, and reading megathreads off and on keeps me sane and awake and entertained.

I also hate the NYT, but since my free access from my old job somehow hasn't been noticed/eliminated yet, I might as well keep reading it for well, commentary on toilet paper and the like. I'm not giving them money for it, anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:22 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]

harris/walz just released a response that has to be seen to be believed

for those without bsky access:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 8, 2024
Donald Trump's Very Good, Very Normal Press
Conference
Split Screen: Joy and Freedom us. Whatever the Hell That Was

an embedded dril tweet screenshot: "and another thing: im not mad. please dont put in the newspaper that i got mad."

Donald Trump took a break from taking a break to put on some pants and host a ~~press conference~~ public meltdown.

We have a lot to say about it. Here are some initial thoughts - with more to come.

He hasn't campaigned all week. He isn't going to a single swing state this week. But he sure is mad Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are getting big crowds across the battlegrounds.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:29 PM on August 8 [39 favorites]

The facts were hard to track and harder to find in Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago meltdown this afternoon.

He lied. He attacked the media. He made excuses for why he’s off the campaign trail.

We’re here to help because his staff clearly isn’t.

But first, an important reminder on the question Donald didn’t answer: how he will vote on the Florida abortion referendum. (He has been ducking this question since April.)

We worked to pin down reality so Donald Trump, bless his heart, doesn’t have to. Here are the facts:

We had 12,000 and 15,000 people in Wisconsin and Michigan yesterday, respectively (Not 2,000.)

The ABC debate is September 10th. Not the 25th.

People have spoken to bigger crowds than Donald Trump. (Obama, Clinton, literally anyone at Lollapalooza, Coachella, the World Cup…)

January 6th was decidedly nothing like MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech. And Trump did not get a bigger crowd than Martin Luther King Jr. on that historic day.

There was famously not a “peaceful transfer” of power after the 2020 election, which Donald Trump fought to overturn. (Famously.)

Five police officers died because of January 6th.

Donald Trump said he was off the trail this week because of the Democratic convention. (That convention is not happening this week.)

Trump said they have commercials at a level no one else does. (He is being drastically outspent on the airwaves.)

Governor Josh Shapiro is actually a great guy.

Project 2025 author Tom Homan, the “father” of Trump’s cruel child separation policy, is not a person to praise.

Jewish people should not “have their head examined” for not supporting him. (That’s actually antisemitic.)

Trump said he was not complaining. He in fact very much was.

Trump does not know the difference between asylum seekers and an insane asylum.

Donald Trump does not “cherish” the Constitution.

Abortion is not “less of an issue” for voters. It is not “subdued.” It is not a “small issue” for voters, despite how much Donald Trump wants it to be.

Donald Trump did not answer the abortion question “very well in the debate.”

Everybody did not want Roe v. Wade overturned. The American people do not support states banning abortion.

After-birth abortion does not exist.

Minnesota and Virginia are not the same.

Donald Trump doesn’t know what progressive means.

Kamala Harris does not want to take away everyone’s guns. Tim Walz is a gun owner.

Vice President Harris does not support an arms embargo on Israel.

Donald Trump could not remember Tim Walz’s name.

Donald Trump’s tax cuts are not the biggest in history.

We don’t know what “the transgender became such a big thing” is supposed to mean.

Donald Trump will cut Social Security – just like he proposed every year he was in office.

Government was not weaponized against Trump and Steve Bannon.

Mail ballots are secure.

We agree – Elon IS a different kind of guy.

There are no polls that say Donald Trump is going to win in a landslide.

The MAGA base is not 75% of the country.

###

(More text of that release here.)
posted by box at 1:34 PM on August 8 [50 favorites]

Info on Harris Walz rally in Phoenix AZ on Friday, August 9, 2024.
posted by jointhedance at 1:36 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]

love seeing a team able to keep pace with the gish galloping for a change
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:40 PM on August 8 [26 favorites]

See, that was a delightful recap/update of the idiot's day out. Love it, KamalaHQ.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:44 PM on August 8 [15 favorites]

How to attend Harris Walz rally in Las Vegas, NV on Saturday, August 10, 2024.
posted by jointhedance at 1:45 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Via CNN: Trump says he hasn’t campaigned lately because he’s waiting until after DNC

I would like to wholeheartedly endorse his campaign strategy of ceding the battleground states to the Harris/Walz campaign for the next two weeks. Absolutely top-notch, chess master play to go into hiding and let Harris/Walz define themselves while you have JD Stalker skulking around behind them on the campaign trail, drawing a sharp contrast and a tenth of their audience. Just masterful.
posted by darkstar at 1:58 PM on August 8 [36 favorites]

Are the prominent Dems finally plainly saying “post-birth abortion” isn’t real? It’s about time.
posted by girlmightlive at 2:15 PM on August 8 [11 favorites]

Meanwhile, Vance is traveling around to the sites where Harris and Walz are speaking. His crowds are embarrassingly small compared to theirs, and he seems perhaps to be trying to intimidate his opponents as Trump tried to do when he loomed behind his 2016 Democratic opponent, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Today Vance and a phalanx of his team approached reporters near Harris’s plane to attack her, only to discover she wasn’t around, at which point he boasted the plane would soon be his.

But rather than seeming intimidating, he came across as so desperate for attention that he had to stalk a more popular figure across the tarmac.

Former representative Liz Cheney (R-WY) apparently thought so: she reposted Vance’s photo of his group of about nine people walking away from Harris’s plane and commented: “Looks like [Vance] brought all his rally attendees to the airport with him today.” — Heather Cox Richardson, Letters from an American
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:16 PM on August 8 [24 favorites]

i think the shooting genuinely shook him. i mean it would pretty much anyone (having been shot at i can attest to this) but on live television to boot, surrounded by his adoring crowd? sure would explain this extra special turbo version of him we've seen lately
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:16 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

I'm going to ruin any chances I ever had of a political career right now by saying: I just don't care about military service, or at least not more than any other job on a resumé.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:16 PM on August 8 [19 favorites]

Trump lashes out at Harris and falsely claims no one was killed on January 6 (The Guardian) Former president attacks Democratic rival in rambling press conference and complains media is favoring her
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:16 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Vance wishes he could draw a tenth of their crowds.
posted by rikschell at 2:20 PM on August 8 [10 favorites]

Fomer president attacks Democratic rival in rambling press conference and complains media is favoring her

ah the old "this stupid controller is busted and the server lags" defense, don't see that outside a cod lobby often
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:25 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

I'm hoping the H/W team goes hard on Trump not having the energy to campaign, the least it could do is force him to do more rallies, and if he really is losing energy the cracks will start to get even wider and more obvious.
He's weak
He's weird
He's tired
He's scared
He's hiding
He's showing his age
He's addled
He's losing

All of it. Every day.
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:27 PM on August 8 [18 favorites]

I'm no huge fan of some of the positions The Guardian has taken, but the New York Times could learn a thing or two about how to actually describe nonsense accurately from them:

an hour-long press conference that swiftly descended into a familiar mess of freewheeling invective, outlandish claims and outright lies.

posted by jackbishop at 2:31 PM on August 8 [34 favorites]

is abc still the boomer network

All broadcast and cable television is the boomer network.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:42 PM on August 8 [28 favorites]

I'm going to ruin any chances I ever had of a political career right now by saying: I just don't care about military service, or at least not more than any other job on a resumé.

I think it is just about one step up from having been a cop.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:50 PM on August 8

Just saw that Trump refused to answer how he was gonna vote on the Florida abortion referendum.
posted by girlmightlive at 3:00 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Hey, fun fact, apparently RFJ Jr. is selling a teddy bear on his website.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:05 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Just saw that Trump refused to answer how he was gonna vote on the Florida abortion referendum.

I'd be shocked if Trump had ever voted when he wasn't on the ballot.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:07 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Hey, fun fact, apparently RFJ Jr. is selling a teddy bear on his website.

This is hilarious, but I can't justify giving him money. Maybe I'll find one at a thrift store or flea market someday and explain to my niece why I'm cackling.
posted by East14thTaco at 3:12 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

I would love for that Harris/Walz press release above to be real...does anyone have a link that works? The bsky and njinsider links definitely don't for me.
posted by mcstayinskool at 3:15 PM on August 8

I would love for that Harris/Walz press release above to be real...does anyone have a link that works? The bsky and njinsider links definitely don't for me.

Politico and NBC think it’s real. posted by migurski at 3:20 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/harris-trump-presidential-election-live-updates-rcna164955#rcrd51507

NBC news references it.

I had better luck getting it to load from the nbc news site but I did also get it to load on njinsider by hitting reload.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 3:20 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

mcstayinskool, the njinsider link was failing for me as well, but when I searched Google and DuckDuckGo for some of those specific phrases, they both showed links to njinsider, so I think it's real but their server can't keep up with the traffic.

I sure do wish the Harris/Walz campaign would post the press releases on their website. It would be nice to have an authoritative source that didn't require an account. (Plus they're probably putting out more press releases than the ones that are going viral, and I personally would like to read them all thankyouverymuch).
posted by kristi at 3:21 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

I think it is just about one step up from having been a cop.

For a lot of people, joining the military is an option that gets them a steady paycheck, housing, and training. They don't all do it to be a badass. Some genuinely have few options after high school. Others want the vocational training it provides. Most of the people I know who have served are really good people.
posted by azpenguin at 3:23 PM on August 8 [38 favorites]

> Vance wishes he could draw a tenth of their crowds.

You know, I pride myself on being able to do math quickly in my head, and have many times astounded my students with this skill. But somehow, this time, I thought "Hmm...20,000 vs 200...eh, about a tenth."

LOL, it's actually a hundredth, of course. It almost makes me feel sorry for the couch fucker.

>>an hour-long press conference that swiftly descended into a familiar mess of freewheeling invective, outlandish claims and outright lies.

I may have to yoink that term as a new nickname for Trump: "Our Old Familiar Mess."

Honestly, he feels like the country's town drunk, familiar in his pathetic weirdness in such a way that we all just nod sadly at him and move on. Our nation's own Missing Stair Laureate, if you will.
posted by darkstar at 3:24 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

If you finish that Politco article do you get a free bowl of soup or something? Because I kinda feel I'm owed a free bowl of soup.
posted by East14thTaco at 3:28 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

After the DNC, we'll see a much more robust website from the Harris/Walz camp, with policy positions, media links, etc.
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:28 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

JD Vance is the narrator of the Hillbilly Elegy audiobook. It sure would be a shame if someone got up to some mischief with that.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:34 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]

I'll find one at a thrift store or flea market someday and explain to my niece why I'm cackling.

Stop by the bait store, pick up a worm, for the full experience.
posted by funkaspuck at 3:38 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

After watching some of TFG's press event today, and reading the commentary on it, I can only conclude that short of a series of some sort of disastrous events somehow occurring Democrat-ward during the next few months, that Trump's campaign is effectively over, and that even he knows it. He can't turn this around. He doesn't have the stamina or the mental acuity to campaign like he did eight years ago. His mental, emotional, and physical state is only going to decline further over time, and his team isn't going to be able to hide it. He can't do rallies, or interviews, or press events, or debates without making things worse, and keeping him hidden will also make things worse. Vance is nothing but a growing liability, and if Trump dumps him, it will only mean more chaos, and then he'll pick someone just as bad to replace him.

Sure, we're not out of the woods yet. I'm old enough to know one shouldn't get complacent over political affairs. Things can turn on a dime in a few days. But barring things going catastrophically for the Democrats in some unforeseen and unlikely way, Trump's going to lose in November.

The election *might* be close. Harris *might* just barely win. But if Harris's momentum keeps building as it has, it could be a humiliating historic defeat for the Republicans.

And won't it be fun and satisfying to watch the Trump campaign die a protracted, sad, whimpering, gibbering death over the next 100 days or so?
posted by orange swan at 3:47 PM on August 8 [28 favorites]

> Most of the people I know who have served are really good people.

I've known jerks who were in the military and jerks who weren't, and really good people who were in the military, and plenty who weren't... and once we start looking at men a generation back from me, they almost all were in the military for at least a bit. The American political scene acts like "is a veteran" is some great thankyouforyourservice line we can sort people by, and I say: meh.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:47 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]

Meet Honey the Rescue Cat
(6 months ago, 1:44 YT)
In which America's Coolest Coach Tim Walz tells people about the importance of rescuing pets while introducing his friend Honey.
posted by Glinn at 3:52 PM on August 8 [14 favorites]

How is it that I liked every single line of that press release except:

Vice President Harris does not support an arms embargo on Israel.

:(
posted by like_neon at 3:53 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Because you don’t want the US sending arms to Israel.
posted by Captaintripps at 4:04 PM on August 8

New Harris ad: “Determination” (YT)
posted by darkstar at 4:07 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Sigh.
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Via DKos, a reflection on Trump’s relatively weaker — and outsourced — ground game:

Let’s talk about Trump’s ground game.

Over the past several cycles, Democrats have refined their get-out-the-vote game. And while there is always room to grow—young voters don’t turn out at high enough rates, for one—Democrats have a well-oiled machine, a collaboration between the party and key advocacy groups to maximize effectiveness.

Republicans, on the other hand … it’s always been a bit of a mess. …Still, they haven’t needed GOTV programs as much. They largely rely on older, whiter voters, who are among the most likely to turn out. And Republican voter-suppression efforts have always made it much harder to vote in urban areas, with nefarious officials doing things like closing polling places and limiting ballot drop boxes.

But Trump takes Republicans’ GOTV dysfunction to new levels. For instance, after he installed his preferred leaders at the Republican National Committee earlier this year, they slashed staffers … including much of their planned GOTV operation.

“The RNC had been planning an extensive field program,” The Washington Post reported recently. “Those now-discarded plans included 88 staff members and 12 offices, and goals to knock on 3 million doors and make 2.4 million phone calls, in Pennsylvania. In Arizona, the RNC’s plan called for 62 staffers and seven offices, aiming for 558,000 voter contacts.”

Even those plans paled in comparison to the Harris campaign and the Democratic Party’s 1,300 staff members across 250 field offices, but it was something. Instead, Trump and his allies have outsourced a good deal of their field operation to his grifter friends, like Charlie Kirk at Turning Point USA.

…Problem is, Turning Point has little experience doing GOTV. Its single effort—Arizona in 2022—ended up with Democrats out-hustling Republicans and winning the governorship, the offices of secretary of state and attorney general, as well as a U.S. Senate race. Yet that showing somehow earned Kirk and his organization Trump’s blessing for 2024.

With Trump and his party largely checked out of GOTV, it comes down to Kirk and about 50 other conservative organizations to manage turnout, and they’re seeing it as … well, you gotta read this to believe it: “‘Everyone sees the marketplace here,’ a prominent Republican involved in one of the efforts said. ‘Everyone sees the campaign isn’t doing it, and there is a huge opportunity.’”

It’s a market opportunity. No matter where you look, the grift is strong in the MAGA world.

It’s possible that Trump is already realizing his mistake. According to The Washington Post, “[Trump] has begun hearing from outside allies that he does not have a significant ground game in key battleground states.” And with three months left before Election Day, good luck with that.

posted by darkstar at 4:23 PM on August 8 [17 favorites]

I'd love it if she could make a statement in support of an arms embargo but she's not going to espouse a major change in foreign policy while serving as VP to a President still attempting to negotiate a cease-fire, she's not going to do so extemporaneously in response to protesters at her rally, and she's not going to do so in a press-release that opens with a dril tweet.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:24 PM on August 8 [39 favorites]

Coulda just said nothing. Would have been better.
posted by Artw at 4:27 PM on August 8 [10 favorites]

“I haven’t recalibrated strategy at all,” Mr. Trump said. “It’s the same policies — open borders, weak on crime.”

The Republicans in Congress blocked a bipartisan border deal so Trump could deny Biden a win and use the border as a campaign issue.

And "weak on crime" from a convicted felon is a stretch.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:31 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Harris For President is hiring a Disability Engagement Director "who will provide strategic advice and guidance as it relates to reaching, engaging, and mobilizing the disabled voters community, partners, and members . . . "
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 4:33 PM on August 8 [29 favorites]

Coulda just said nothing. Would have been better.

I'm not sure she could have. She was responding to a gish gallop point-by-point, so saying nothing would have tacitly conceded that point to Trump. Saying she "does not support" the embargo leaves open the door to supporting one later (not that I expect that, but I can hope) and merely responds with a flat denial to Trump's attempts to stake out the position for her with his off-the-cuff ramblings.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:35 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]

Per Twitter Trump now open to weed legalization so he’s panicking like hell right now.
posted by Artw at 4:41 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Well now, throw in some Medicare for all, and we'll talk.
posted by mittens at 4:43 PM on August 8 [4 favorites]

I'd love it if she could make a statement in support of an arms embargo but she's not going to espouse a major change in foreign policy [...] in a press-release that opens with a dril tweet.

dril reacted, as only dril can, to the harris press release that used his words:

in case you thought IDF Rape Camps were the worst thing our government is sanctioning

posted by ftrtts at 4:46 PM on August 8 [14 favorites]

The hat has a Chapelle Roan connection?

What a weird summer.
posted by Artw at 4:47 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

And "weak on crime" from a convicted felon is a stretch.

well, if the Dems were properly strong on it he wouldn't still be walking around, I guess.

I can see the campaign ad. Trump dressed only in a loin cloth looks the camera hard in the eye. "If Kamallla was such a good prosecutor, what am I doing walking around free?" Picks up some dung, hurls it in the general direction of the camera.
posted by philip-random at 4:50 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

(Chappell, pronounced like a little church)
posted by box at 5:03 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Well, it looks like VoteVets got annoyed.
posted by corb at 5:24 PM on August 8 [34 favorites]

Well, it looks like VoteVets got annoyed.

absolutely love how they chose red and blue for "fiction" and "fact" respectively
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:36 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

Bob Mould finds out that Walz is a Husker Du fan:

"We just need to know what his favorite Hüsker album is.
Well, I’m hoping for Flip Your Wig. That’s my personal favorite. But Warehouse would be OK, too. Or maybe he’d pick New Day Rising. But I’m telling you: Whatever deity one chooses to believe and worship and spend time with, today is heaven on earth. The whole party is so energized. It’s so clear this poison has got to go and we just got to start getting kids educated again and letting people have choices over their own lives."
posted by gingerbeer at 5:44 PM on August 8 [24 favorites]

Thanks for that, corb!

I hadn't been familiar with VoteVets so I went to check out their website and noticed:

VoteVets Makes Historic First-Ever Endorsement for President - "For the first time in the group’s nearly 20-year history, VoteVets is making an endorsement in the presidential general election, backing the Harris-Walz ticket in 2024."

Their latest post to Instagram and Facebook - photos of Vance and Walz, captioned "Fun Fact: Tim Walz served longer in uniform than JD Vance, Donald Trump and all of the Trump children, combined."
posted by kristi at 5:46 PM on August 8 [41 favorites]

What Israel is doing is terrible, barbaric, horrific. Also, if the US really stopped selling weapons to Israel, Iran would invade like, the next day. That's just not a policy position anyone in the US government can realistically take. I hope Biden is able to twist Netanyahu's arm to get a ceasefire before the election.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:10 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

He’s working on it.
posted by mazola at 6:19 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

Also, if the US really stopped selling weapons to Israel, Iran would invade like, the next day.

I am also not in favor of an embargo per se, but I don't think this particular scenario is going to be a concern. Israel has nuclear weapons, and several whole countries between itself and Iran.
posted by AdamCSnider at 6:20 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Iraq and Syria are those countries. Not much of an obstacle. Syria would probably join in. I dunno, I just want people who are discussing Israel and Palestine to occasionally mention some of the other countries that hate Israel, because I think those other countries are basically the whole reason the US keeps supporting Israel. Kamala Harris is Vice President. She is thinking about those other countries, and the possibility of a wider war.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:26 PM on August 8 [11 favorites]

A few deleted. Please do not derail the thread further by engaging in a back-and-forth with users.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 6:39 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Couple of links.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:40 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Also, a friendly reminder that there was an excellent Israel/Palestine thread started this morning by cendawanita.
posted by darkstar at 6:45 PM on August 8 [19 favorites]

If we are not doing responses to deranged nonsense in this thread we should probably not be doing responses to deranged nonsense in that thread either.

Pity the nonsense got left standing but that’s the way of late.
posted by Artw at 6:56 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]

After watching some of TFG's press event today, and reading the commentary on it, I can only conclude that short of a series of some sort of disastrous events somehow occurring Democrat-ward during the next few months, that Trump's campaign is effectively over, and that even he knows it.

I have similar feelings, that are maybe a bit wishful thinking, but Trump doesn’t seem to have anything else to work with than very weird and tired stuff that doesn’t seem like it could convince anyone who has not totally bought in.

Harris, on the other hand, and Walz, seem to be firing on all cylinders and don’t seem ready to make any mistakes by being overconfident. Swiftboat, Garland, Hillary trying to stretch the map, we go high, etc.: they have paid attention and are ready to win.

I will also say that a few months ago I was lamenting the shallow bench of Democrats in national politics, but even though there was no open convention battle royale (thank god!), the last few weeks have given some folks a bump in awareness, and I think it is a good thing. Hopefully the convention, rest of the campaign, and next term are used to boost more next-gen dems on the national stage.
posted by snofoam at 7:07 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

The media has started talking about Trump’s cognitive decline. Let’s hope this is a trend that continues.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:29 PM on August 8 [25 favorites]

I will also say that a few months ago I was lamenting the shallow bench of Democrats in national politics

I've been thinking about why I've thought the Dem bench was so shallow for so long and I genuinely think it comes down to just my own anxiety, and the collective anxiety of Dems, saying that we have to have the perfect candidate who is all things to all people to even have a shot and discounting many people as not being real contenders because of that. This abrupt change with everyone lining up behind Harris and Walz has totally circumvented the whole stage where I overthink it and worry too much during the usual primary season and it's got me reconsidering some of my general pessimism in politics.

I also kinda wonder if it short circuited the anxious overthinking it primary mode for Harris herself and that's why she's on a whole other level now compared to her 2020 primary run?

Something to be said for taking a leap of faith on something hopeful without wasting all your energy trying to overbuild a safety net first. Hopefully that's something I can remember next time the primaries come around.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:39 PM on August 8 [11 favorites]

Clicking through the link Winnie the Proust posted above, and to the original source article posted by STAT, one gets this gem of linguistic analysis:

Even as Trump speaks with more derailments, Pennebaker found that he’s relied on unusually simple words and sentence structures since before he was elected president. A linguistic metric of analytic thinking shows that Trump’s levels of complexity have always been unmistakably low, said Pennebaker. Whereas most presidential candidates are in the 60 to 70 range, Trump’s speeches range from 10 to 24. “I can’t tell you how staggering this is,” said Pennebaker. “He does not think in a complex way at all.”

posted by darkstar at 7:49 PM on August 8 [27 favorites]

There's always the worry of some sort of October Surprise and it's certainly possible. However, Trump is absolutely flailing right now and if he had something in his back pocket, I don't know that he'd be able to discipline himself to hold off two more months. I really don't think they have anything. They planned their entire campaign strategy around "Biden is old" and knew an apathetic electorate, then add in Biden being an old school bipartisan politico who isn't going to say anything mean, plus a complicit media that wouldn't look too hard at Trump - all that would equal a Trump victory. But now everything is flipped. Trump now looks like the doddering, incoherent candidate. Both Harris and Walz are kicking Trump/CouchHump in their tiny little nuts at every turn. The media is taking notice of the tidal wave of enthusiasm and starting to ask Trump some questions he doesn't like. I don't think Trump has anything left in the tank. You get to September and October and you start going pedal to the metal, and he's mostly in hiding as he has often been since the debate. Nothing is certain, but I think Harris is gonna turn this into a boat race by end of next month.
posted by azpenguin at 7:55 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]

I think most of us are still dealing with the trauma of 11/9/16. It's hard to think rationally when that NY Times gauge graphic is still flipping back and forth in our hearts. And it was so much worse for those of us who were unprepared, who had convinced ourselves it could never happen. We reflexively protect our hearts from that ever happening again.

But this change of candidates has broken the spell. The armor built up around my heart is cracking open and I can remember what hope feels like.
posted by rikschell at 7:57 PM on August 8 [29 favorites]

Listen, I know this is just style (and confidence and body language), but damn — watch this clip of Kamala Harris talking to reporters and tell me you don’t feel it.
posted by argybarg at 7:59 PM on August 8 [24 favorites]

Highly recommended viewing - Lawrence ODonnell on the disparate treatment Kamala (& Biden) gets vs Trump. Once a longer clip pops up, likely on YouTube, watch it if you can. I was straight going off on this subject, finished ranting, then happened to turn it on and lo and behold he was ripping the media a new one. In the longer clip he shows video of the press screaming at Biden and yelling at KJP. He (Lawrence) gets so frustrated at one point he throws his papers down and there's an audible 'slap' as they hit the desk. He's seething and all I could do was put both hands up pointed at the tv, because this has been driving me insane.

The segment opens the 8/8/2024 show and runs for maybe 15 minutes.
posted by cashman at 8:33 PM on August 8 [31 favorites]

Winnie the Proust: The media has started talking about Trump’s cognitive decline. Let’s hope this is a trend that continues.

Please please please please please let this be an après-moi, le déluge moment.
posted by tzikeh at 8:49 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

When I went to twitter to watch the O'Donnell clip the "Explore" bar had these two things:

Trump Press Conference: Mixed Reviews

Mixed Reviews for 'Fantastic Four'

Seems about right.
posted by LostInUbe at 8:53 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

When I was in college, I was in a program that included a special student-run reading seminar, which we took every semester. We were expected to come up with our own procedure for selecting which books we'd read, and how we'd discuss them. Early on, we decided to come up with a simple procedure for nominating books for the reading list, and then a slightly odd voting procedure where each student would cast something like 10 votes for the books they preferred, out of a list of several dozen.

We came up with a really interesting set of books that were nominated, plus a few "standards," books that are inarguably good books but which a lot of us had read in high school, or were covered in freshman English, or whatever, and were actually not very good picks for this type of seminar. What was remarkable was that when the votes were tallied, pretty much everyone agreed that the final list of books was a bad list, composed almost entirely of "standards", without any of the very interesting, thoughtful options making it through. We had followed a democratic process, and yet everyone was unhappy with the outcome.

What a closer look at the ballots revealed was that most people had voted for a bunch of unusual books that interested them specifically, and then, because they votes left to cast after marking their top picks, threw in a "standard" or two that they were familiar with. But everyone's interesting picks were different, while the fewer "standards" all received these "leftover" votes, with the end result that all 5 (or whatever it was) books came from the boring "standards" that no one was actually very excited about. We probably would have been happier with nominating a bunch of books, then randomly picking 5 from the list without voting.

This lesson has stuck with me for my whole life since then. If you design a system with bad rules for making decisions, you're going to get bad decisions, even if the process is completely democratic and fair, and everyone is participating in good faith.

I strongly believe that the reason for the false perception of a shallow Democratic talent pool is because of this type of problem. Our terrible first-past-the-post voting system almost guarantees that talented politicians who have strong appeal to some but less recognition overall are generally passed over during primaries, while politicians of mediocre appeal end up capturing the pluralities early on, and subsequently majorities once they have "momentum", simply because at least they're known quantities. This is in part what we saw in 2020, when a bunch of very interesting progressives were eliminated from consideration pretty quickly because they were poorly known, or had this fault or that fault that damned them in the eyes of this faction or that faction, leaving Biden as everyone's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice clinching it in part just because he was a known quantity. This quick elimination of politicians who maybe would have broader appeal if more people got to know them ends up making it seem like the pool of Democrats just doesn't have much talent, but it's an artifact of bad voting rules and a broken primary system. Just as much as our crappy book list in college might have made it seem like we had no interesting book options to choose from.

What's frustrating is that this is such an easy problem to fix, in that there are no Constitutional barriers to changing our voting rules, and there's no massive FPTP lobby funding disinformation campaigns against adopting better voting systems. And yet it's such a hard problem to fix because most people don't see it as such a fundamental part of why they're not happy with politics, and are really stuck on the idea that anything else would be "complicated". It's so boring, and only a few weirdos in weird places like MetaFilter talk about it. But the system we have right now is practically guaranteed to give us mediocre candidates, even when most of us would be happier with any other single choice.

I think the Harris candidacy is a perfect example of how a forced pick not from the "standards" list can turn out to be much more interesting and exciting for everyone, once they are introduced to the idea. She's certainly not a "random" pick, but if she had run a primary with herself at the top of the ticket, instead of stepping up from running-mate to top-billing, I'm not confident she would have won, or that there would be this level of enthusiasm and unity among Democrats at this point. Obviously going back to having the party machine pick a candidate is a terrible idea, but I think her current success does highlight just how terrible a job FPTP primaries do at picking good candidates and rallying people behind them.
posted by biogeo at 9:01 PM on August 8 [66 favorites]

I usually avoid following links to Xitter, but that video that cashman linked just above was worth the exception.
posted by biogeo at 9:11 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

The End of the Voting Methods Debate - "People are sick of having to vote for the 'lesser evil.'" :P

A new voting method, AADV (Approve/Approve/Disapprove Voting), was proposed in 2020. Each voter has the option to approve of either one or two of the candidates, and also has the option to disapprove of one candidate. Each candidate's approvals and disapprovals are separately summed. Disapprovals are then subtracted from approvals to obtain the net approvals for each candidate. The candidate with the most (positive) net approvals is declared the winner. If no candidate achieves positive net approvals, NOTA (None Of The Above) has won. If NOTA should win, all candidates are disqualified and a new election must be held with new candidates.

posted by kliuless at 9:15 PM on August 8 [16 favorites]

That's a great comment, biogeo - flagged as fantastic. Thank you.
posted by kristi at 9:15 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]

biogeo: I was with you all the way until the assertion that it's such an easy problem to fix! Republicans do use a lot of winner-take-all primaries but the Democratic primaries are proportional and the problem you identify still remains. They do require you to reach 15% before getting delegates in that state which does hurt the most unknown candidates. And maybe that rule should be tossed and you should get delegates without minimum threshold (assuming you'd get at least 1 delegate; if you get 3% of the vote and there are 15 delegates, that's still 0 delegates).

So you're right about the problem but FPTP isn't the issue specifically in the democratic primary. I'm not sure how to address it. But proportional allocation can't be the answer because we already do it.
posted by Justinian at 9:16 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]

(Maybe some kind of ranked choice voting?)
posted by Justinian at 9:16 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]

Hello from Maine - yes, you should all have ranked choice. It makes things much better
posted by anastasiav at 9:27 PM on August 8 [13 favorites]

I stand corrected, thanks Justinian.

Really, I think the problem is with any system that only allows voters to endorse a single candidate. FPTP is basically the worst possible system, but there are plenty of other bad ways to do it, too. My college book list wasn't FPTP after all, and that system was clearly flawed.

The AADV system kliuless linked definitely looks interesting -- my concern would be that limiting the number of approvals and disapprovals each voter can make on their ballot could lead to the kind of problem my college book list had: better not to encourage people to "use up" their votes on mediocre options, but rather just register their opinion on each candidate. But I'll reserve judgment until I read more! (The system otherwise sounds very good to me. Better to re-call an election than to elect a candidate that a large plurality can't stand.)
posted by biogeo at 9:37 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

I thought this is interesting (and I am aware at which thread I am in), something from back in May: (Intercept) Conditioning Aid to Israel Would Boost Support for Biden in Key States, New Poll Finds

That was back in the doldrums era. Now imagine all that repressed energy that's been let out with the Harris/Walz campaign. Of course it's just one poll, and from an admitted lobby group.
posted by cendawanita at 9:44 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]

Since we’re in here speculating about new voting systems, check out Fusion Voting currently used in NY and CT: candidates appear multiple times per ballot in connection with parties so that additional information passes through the voting process without needing to upend the FPTP rules we use. It was new to me. We use Ranked Choice for mayor here in Oakland and it’s okay? The first time we used it the victor had a distinctive “everyone’s third choice” vibe and it was not great.
posted by migurski at 10:16 PM on August 8

In the last NYC mayoral election, the first after we passed ranked choice voting, two of the Dem candidates eventually hit on a strategy of campaigning together and each encouraging their supporters to rank the other one second. They only started doing this a couple of weeks before the election and neither of them won, but it was still exciting to see, and I really think that if they had thought of it earlier in the campaign it might have actually worked. I’m definitely interested to see what happens next time.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:03 PM on August 8 [7 favorites]

Seconding (thirding?) what was said above re: the Lawrence O'Donnell segment, even though I'm usually not really that big a fan of O'Donnell. There is something broken in the news media in the U.S. And I can understand the anger about it. He even takes a shot at his parent network (NBC) for not covering the Harris' UAW speech and then proceeds to rebroadcast the whole, unedited speech in its entirety, as part of his segment. And if you haven't seen that speech, it's...well, it's rather "fire" as some might say. I highly recommend it (and Walz's intro to Harris). Absolutely top form, and I'm furious the media coverage wasn't there.

Linking the whole Lawrence O'Donnell segment here, though if you want to just watch the tail end of Walz's intro and the entire Harris speech, it starts about 15 minutes and 20ish seconds or so in. (SLYT)

But I think O'Donnell is right. With the way we cover news in this era, there is no reason why we can't have a running, non-comprehensive list of all the fallacies, lies and errors in TFG's press conference answers on one side of the screen as they come up. Though in my honest opinion, I believe neither TFG's press conferences or speeches should be covered in real time at all, if they must, then there's no reason it has to be reported as though the guy is saying anything worth anything, even if the reporters on-site won't fact check him to his face.
posted by donttouchmymustache at 11:06 PM on August 8 [27 favorites]

Evidence-based messaging, for those interested: What’s better than calling Trump weird?

Tweet summary: "boring" pro-Harris messages with "typical" Democratic messages work; anti-Trump messages don't. (Though I'd argue that at the same time, it may be worthwhile to preach to the choir during the introduce-Walz phase of the campaign.)

From the article:

The entire internet seems to be buzzing about Tim Walz’s new line of attack on Donald Trump and JD Vance: they’re “weird.”

But social science research (including some of our own) suggests that Democrats should not be focused on attacking Trump. A huge new survey we fielded — testing dozens of messages among over 100,000 people — finds the same. Voters have been hearing about Donald Trump for almost ten years now. If they’re willing to vote for him based on that near-decade of experience, a few ads or a new quip are unlikely to change their minds about him. In our survey, we found that every attempt at attacking Trump — from overturning Roe to his threat to democracy and calling him “weird” — didn’t persuade voters to support Harris.

Instead of attacking Trump, Democrats should talk about Harris.

...

That means running on mainstream “kitchen table” Democratic ideas to reduce the cost of living, protect Medicare and Social Security by taxing the rich, keep abortion legal, and raise the minimum wage. Other messages that don’t map onto ideological divides in the Democratic party, such as touting her achievements as a prosecutor and casting the tie-breaking vote for the American Rescue Plan, also perform well.

The broader research result is "to persuade people, tell them something they don’t know". Spreadsheet of raw messages w/results.

I expect the authors' warning that "some commentators treat this question as a proxy for the battle between the Democrats’ progressive and moderate factions" will come true here. Yet hope springs eternal.
posted by daveliepmann at 3:21 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]

In our survey, we found that every attempt at attacking Trump — from overturning Roe to his threat to democracy and calling him “weird” — didn’t persuade voters to support Harris.

Arguably, this belongs in the thread about the "weird" messaging, but I'd contend that convincing folks who weren't already more or less in the Harris camp is not the main function of this message anyways. Yes, a few folks will change their minds based on it, and it drives the actual opposition political class into an absolute frenzy, but those are just bonuses.

I'd argue the message's true function is one of morale for those already supporting Harris. 'Cause a lot of us are tired. We're tired of the "every four years, keep the existential threat to democracy at bay!" We're tired of the from-the-debate-to-the-candidate-swap sense of doom. We're tired of the media bending over backwards to find flaws in Democratic policy statements while giving a pass to the utter nonsense which has been Republican policies since the 2020 literal platform of "we support whatever Trump supports today". We are tired, to sum it up, in having to take absurdity seriously.

And this change is for us! Because "dangerous" is full of doom, but "weird" is not. These weirdos are weak, they're clowns, they're unserious people who are eminently beatable. You can take this too far—I think treating buffoonery as a complete joke meant a lot of Democrats got overconfident in 2016 and look where that got us—but it's good to remind people that these political vandals are not superpowered big bad villains, but are dumb grifters in way over their heads. It's still important that they not take control, but that's because you don't let the monkey drive the car.
posted by jackbishop at 4:01 AM on August 9 [56 favorites]

The other thing about "weird" is that even if it doesn't bring voters to Harris it DOES provoke the other side, and they end up looking like crybabies and doubling down on racism, sexism, transphobia, and all the rest in a vain attempt to convince everyone that we're weirder than them.

It works both ways: The Republicans' "I know you are but what am I" speeches are wasting time THEY could be talking about policy.
posted by mmoncur at 4:08 AM on August 9 [18 favorites]

But social science research (including some of our own) suggests that Democrats should not be focused on attacking Trump....Instead of attacking Trump, Democrats should talk about Harris.

Good thing that's what they're doing, then. She's already got this. I don't feel the focus is on Trump at all. The focus is on the American people and what we COULD have.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:56 AM on August 9 [19 favorites]

The AADV system would incentivize negative campaigning, which would in turn corrode trust in civic engagement. No thank you.

Rank Choice Voting addresses the lesser of two evils problem by allowing people to vote for their ideal candidate without worrying about throwing away their vote. It decreases negative campaigning. And despite entrenched opposition, it has seven gaining traction in the US.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:09 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

I'd argue the message's true function is one of morale for those already supporting Harris

yeah this is it exactly. predicated on "does this change minds" misses the mark. from everything we've seen of the guy anyone still in trump's camp or even undecided are highly unlikely to be persuaded. what matters is convincing folks to go from telling a surveyor who they like to actually voting for them, and "look, these chumps are beatable" is demonstrably helping if the spike in new registrations is anything to go by. team harris is still hammering on the core issues, but the "weird" messaging is also absolutely working too
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:13 AM on August 9 [17 favorites]

At a certain point painting them as losers will begin to depress their turnout. Maybe not so much for all-in Trumpers, but for the "culturally Republicans" who are never going to switch, getting them to stay home is a big win.
posted by rikschell at 5:19 AM on August 9 [16 favorites]

"The nation's oldest and largest Latino civil rights group, LULAC, will endorse a presidential candidate for the first time, CBS News has learned. It will back Kamala Harris."
posted by cashman at 5:31 AM on August 9 [33 favorites]

Yeah the point of "weird" (aside from provoking the campaign into acting even weirder) is that bullying is pretty much all that they've got, and "weird" works as an all-purpose way for Harris/Walz to neutralize the bullying, dismiss it, and move on. It's why, despite all the pieces out there about how democrats have dropped the "you go low, we go high" ethos, the Harris/Walz campaign is noteworthy for all the positive vibes around it.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:44 AM on August 9 [17 favorites]

We've reached the Downfall moment of the campaign. (X)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:54 AM on August 9 [23 favorites]

CSPAN placemarker for Harris Walz rally in Phoenix AZ at 8 pm ET Friday, August 9, 2024.
posted by jointhedance at 6:12 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

The weird thing also helps down ticket races because the republicans running for Congress or senate are almost all Trump boosters. They end up saying weird things like it's not weird to really like the pattern on the chesterfield cushions.
posted by Mitheral at 6:28 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

The AADV system would incentivize negative campaigning, which would in turn corrode trust in civic engagement. No thank you.

Which is different from the current system in which way?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:45 AM on August 9

Not sure I really see an AADV advantage over ranked choice. Just seems like a complicated way to achieve not quite as good a result?
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Haley Voters for Harris (YT)
... they recently made news because Haley told them to stop using her name.
lol
(Though if it's true what their director says, that we have the highest oil production in American history under Biden, that is sucky.)
posted by Glinn at 7:01 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

It’s worse. It encourages people to focus on who they hate the most or are most scared of. It dangles a reward for being afraid and stopping something. Like the current system, AADV is first past the post. But even more than the current system it emphasizes the negative. And it does nothing to make space for more voices and ranges of opinion. It still leaves voters with only two options and levies a penalty for voting third party.

RCV addresses the actual problem of expanding choices and letting people express their values through the voting process. You rank the candidate you actually agree with first, and the lesser of two evils second. In multi-seat elections (such as city councils) RC isn’t just performative. It can lead to proportional representation of multiple communities.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:02 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]

Impaired cognitive functioning continues to trend.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:04 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

It’s interesting how nearly everyone responding to the findings daveliepmann cited — that voters want affirmative policy declarations from the Harris campaign rather than attacks on Trump — by explaining why attacks on Trump work and are a good idea.

I have a somewhat controversial view that we should copy the effectiveness of the 2016 campaign in packaging basic policy statements into concrete ideas so specific and concise you could yell them out a window: “build the wall” above all. It’s a moronic idea, rooted in hate and fear, but it’s specific and tangible and drives policy. It sounds like a moonshot, like something you could dream of seeing (if you have hateful dreams).

People don’t like to feel stupid about politics. They like to believe that they are supporting a policy and not a personality. So when people heard “build the wall” (or “drain the swamp” or “drill baby drill”) they feel they had a purchase on a tangible policy, even if most people understood it wasn’t actually that simple.

We need to give people a tangible policy they can say is a good idea, and it can’t be “repeal Citizens United” or “restrain judicial power.”
posted by argybarg at 7:07 AM on August 9 [14 favorites]

In parliamentary election (or I guess congress in the US), I'd rather have a system where I can vote for the person/party I want and local representation goes to the one who wins locally, but globally votes gets tallied and members are added from a list until we reach approximately the same representation as in the general vote.

RCV is weaponizing our current problem, parties zero in on the center mass and then stretch either left or right to ensure a majority. Which is not the end of the world since you end up representing a set of ideas with somewhat broad support, and we'd end with similar policies in the end, but it removes all the voices outside this center from parliament/congress, can't be good. There's a reason the Canadian Liberal party was only willing to consider RCV for electoral reform.

For president RCV probably soften the blow for the Nader/Stein type of candidacy, but getting rid of the electoral college is a higher priority.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:10 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Vis-à-vis Biden dropping out, Politico has an interview with Anita Dunn about it. In my opinion, Dunn comes off incredibly defensive and defiant in the face of other forces (she really thought there was no way Biden would drop out until he did), but it might shed light on those interested in the whens and whys of this crazy summer.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:11 AM on August 9 [5 favorites]

The literature on RCV seems to be that it moderates candidates and reduces polarization. You may like that! But I wouldn’t assume that “gives non-mainstream voices a shot” is a feature of RCV.

https://democracy.issuelab.org/resources/39164/39164.pdf
posted by argybarg at 7:11 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

I too am ready for the Harris campaign to get more specific about policy, but I am not handwringing about "weird." It's a meme and it will be replaced by some other memes over the next 88 days.
posted by Captaintripps at 7:13 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]

“Build the wall,” “drain the swamp” and “drill baby drill” all boil down to 3 or 4 syllable chants. What are policy decisions that could have placeholders like this?
“Fix the court!” (Unfuck the court is more accurate but harder to say)
“Tax the rich!”
“Freeze rent now!”
“Build more homes!”
Others?
posted by rednikki at 7:15 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]

US production of crude oil is indeed higher than it's ever been. Which sucks, yes.

However, it's also true that since the start of the Biden-Harris Administration, total installed solar power in the US has doubled, and zero-carbon power plants will make up 96% of new capacity that will be installed this year.

For 100 days this year (so far!), California's grid ran entirely on renewables

So it's not all bad news.

(I feel like nobody is talking about climate change, but Walz signed a bill with a goal to get Minnesota to 100% carbon-free energy by 2040, and Harris was a co-sponsor on the Green New Deal)
posted by Jeanne at 7:18 AM on August 9 [26 favorites]

A veteran I know has written the following and granted permission to share it, anonymized: I am doing so so people can understand the Walz situation and argue it.

I’m a Master Sergeant (E8) in the U.S. Army Reserve. I was a First Sergeant, which is also an E8 grade. The title changes based on position. Because I served as a 1SG and received the “M” identifier, I am able to retire as a 1SG, should I choose to retire. Because I fulfilled my service commitment for accepting that promotion, I am also eligible to receive benefits and retirement as an E8.

I was recently selected to attend the Sergeants Major Academy to become an E9 or Sergeant Major/Command Sergeant Major but because I am Reserve, I am only able to do the course online. There are VERY FEW seats for us to attend the resident course which is only nine months. Some active duty personnel also choose to attend the course online because of family circumstances, etc.

The online course is two years ish. It’s the same course, but we do it asynchronously and on our own time. (And if you’re an individual mobilization augmentee like me, you are not allowed to get paid for it.) Now, my peers who are at the in-resident course have nine months to complete the course at the schoolhouse. BUT WE ALL “PIN” or are eligible to promote at the same time, when THEY graduate… in nine months.

What this means, for you geniuses out there who did a few years in the Marine Corps and think you understand how Army National Guard or Reserve promotions work when a majority of the Active Army doesn’t, is that in nine months, I could be a Command Sergeant Major… BEFORE graduating the academy. Now. Obviously, I still have to finish the Sergeants Major Academy, but I get another year or so to complete it. If I fail to complete it, I will revert back to a Master Sergeant/E8, but any time I served as an E9 is time I served as an E9.

If I complete my course, I stay an E9. And if I finished my service commitment incurred for going to the academy and pinning that rank, then I get to retire as an E9 (Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major depending on my position.) If I serve only two years as an E9 and choose to retire because I’m already over 20 years, which would be not fulfilling my service commitment, then I retire as an E8 for retirement benefits, etc. BUT, I will still have “served as a CSM/SGM.”

posted by corb at 7:18 AM on August 9 [41 favorites]

I too would like Harris to spend more time on policy (and I do wonder how much of that is being workshopped and focus-tested right now - in a normal race, this would have happened months or years ago), but it's not as if her stump speech is just calling Republicans "weird" with no policy proposals.

Reproductive rights. Paid leave. Affordable childcare. Bring down costs for food and housing.

The snarky press releases aren't the whole of the campaign.
posted by Jeanne at 7:32 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]

I find interesting the way this Axios headline signals "Trump is weak":
Trump backs down after bailing on debating Harris

Wonder if we'll be seeing more of this in other media outlets.
posted by needled at 7:36 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Homes for all.
Free health care.
Build a new power grid.
Wind, water, sun.
One billion Americans. (Leave Yglesias out of it, it’s a good vision)
Power America.
posted by argybarg at 7:37 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]

Vis-à-vis Biden dropping out, Politico has an interview with Anita Dunn about it.

That's a terrific interview, thanks!
posted by mazola at 7:39 AM on August 9

the harris campaign has been talking policy, which will likely crystalise further after the convention. importantly we can do several strategies at once. honest! pithy slogans can also be a part of that (although I'm not convinced they were the deciding factor in 2016 but sure)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:40 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

The key is to unleash your id. Trump unleashed the Republican id, and it amounted to punishment and control — “lock her up,” “build the wall.”

My liberal id is for a solid, secure safety net that lets everyone live a decent life without having to grind themselves into dust; lots of good supportive systems like public transit and museums; tons of municipal arts and education programs; and astounding inventiveness in renewable energy and conservation.
posted by argybarg at 7:41 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Washington just has some split votes in the primary go kind of weird, and consequently there’s some rumbling about ranked choice. I suspect primaries are where it’s more likely to happen if it happens at all
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on August 9

Vis-à-vis Biden dropping out, Politico has an interview with Anita Dunn about it. In my opinion, Dunn comes off incredibly defensive and defiant in the face of other forces (she really thought there was no way Biden would drop out until he did), but it might shed light on those interested in the whens and whys of this crazy summer.

Also, as a PSA - Frontline has a new documentary out titled "Biden's Decision" and it's actually a misleading title and doesn't spend much time at all on the decision to drop out.

Frontline runs a regular episode in election season on The Choice which essentially profiles both Presidential candidates and dies biographical contrasts between them. This Biden episode very much felt like WGBH was doing all of this pre-production on The Choice 2024 with a bunch of Biden footage and then went, "oh shit" when he dropped out and rushed out this episode to find some use for all of that sunk cost footage before pivoting to cover Kamala. I suspect that the actual Choice 2024 episode will still be released by Frontline and I also hope it'll do some deep dives on the machinations from the debate.

But for anyone who's thinking that Biden was already planning to dropout after the debate, I do think the Frontline episode does a really, really good job of framing Biden's insistence on staying in as long as he can out of a lifelong history of being underestimated, being told that he sucks, being told he doesn't belong in places, and having to always prove critics wrong.
posted by bl1nk at 7:41 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]

Re: weird - it's also seems like an effective way to deflate a lot of culture war nonsense. Now when people on Twitter start calling Walz "Tampon Tim" because he has a policy of putting free menstruation products in girls and boys bathrooms, people now have this easy strategy - they can just say "Hey man, this is why we're calling y'all weird" instead of getting into a protected argument which is likely to just add juice to the culture war. And it dovetails nicely with their message of "freedom," which might be a bit cheesy, but has already proven an effective way of selling abortion access in red state - basically, it's "weird" to want to the state to meddle in what should be private decisions of families and individuals.

Out of curiosity, in the article daveliepmann linked to, I followed their link to the statements they used in their study. This is the "anti-Trump weird" message the researchers tested on voters:

Donald Trump and his VP pick JD Vance are just weird. At his rallies Trump has started talking for a long time about weird topics like shark attacks and old movies about serial killers, and JD Vance keeps insulting people who haven't had kids as cat ladies and saying they shouldn't get a full vote in elections. It's not too much to ask for politicians to act and talk like normal people. These weirdos and their weird ideas shouldn't be running our country.

Oh to be a political scientist at Berkeley or Yale! But seriously, that's a pretty sloppy version of the argument - Walz isn't wasting his breath complaining about Trump talking about sharks - he's good at focusing on policies, like abortion bans, and calling those weird.
posted by coffeecat at 7:42 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

"Feed every child."

I haven't heard that as a policy position, yet. But I think it would have huge support. It's a realizable promise that could be delivered on (at least universal school lunches could). And if they want to argue it, it forces the Trump campaign to argue against children having food.
posted by meinvt at 7:50 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

“These people want to inspect your kids genitals - that’s weird” is absolutely a discussion of policy.
posted by Artw at 7:50 AM on August 9 [15 favorites]

The tampon thing will have some effect, because it reinforces the idea that liberals are forcing people, in the extended family space of schools, to accept intrusive fringey policies about gender and so forth. It isn’t true (the actual law leaves the implementation up to schools), but it resonates with the inherent “ick” people have about tampons and bathrooms.

I’ve seen people use it as an example of how out-of-touch the right wing is but, alas, I don’t think so.
posted by argybarg at 7:51 AM on August 9

I was just reading a Rolling Stone interview with Kamala Harris - published before Biden dropped out of the race.

She talks about how her family took in a friend of hers who was experiencing sexual abuse in her family, when Kamala was in high school. She said, of her mother's willingness to take in this friend, "I grew up in a community where people took care of each other."

That resonates, for me, with Walz's idea that "one person's socialism is another person's neighborliness."

You could do worse than to build a campaign around the idea that we take care of each other.
posted by Jeanne at 7:54 AM on August 9 [22 favorites]

I think any opportunity to state in plain terms what we really wish for is always good.

Justice for all.
Health is wealth.
Caring is strength.
Feed every child (yes meinvt).
Clean power now.
Decency in everything.
Freedom to dream.
posted by argybarg at 7:59 AM on August 9 [11 favorites]

I'm afraid of how "decency" would be defined by some people.
posted by rikschell at 8:02 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Notice that the 2016 Trump campaign tried out a ton of different slogans and stuck with the ones that resonated with the crowd. Which they're clearly trying to do right now, but I don't think 2024 Trump has the cognitive ability to read the room like that anymore, plus he's got PTSD now and is afraid to appear in front of big crowds.

I hope the Harris campaign is aware of how slogans like that arise from working crowds and capturing the vibe, not sitting in a room and trying to imagine you're a voting American. Her campaign schedule and how they jumped on Walz's "weird" thing suggests they are.

A lot of people don't know what they always wanted until they see it. So show them something!
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:03 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

The literature on RCV seems to be that it moderates candidates and reduces polarization. You may like that! But I wouldn’t assume that “gives non-mainstream voices a shot” is a feature of RCV.

This is correct. IRV/Hare (I refuse to call it Ranked Choice Voting, a term which arrogantly claims the entire space of ranked-ballot methods under the roof of one particular tallying method) and Fusion essentially "reroute" support that would not achieve a majority into other candidates/parties until a majority is achieved (it's just that with IRV, the voter chooses where to reroute their support, and with Fusion, the party chooses).

For president RCV probably soften the blow for the Nader/Stein type of candidacy, but getting rid of the electoral college is a higher priority.

One one hand, this statement understands exactly what IRV does. On the other hand, getting rid of the electoral college requires a constitutional amendment, so it's much less doable than any implementation of an alternative voting method. On yet a third hand, (because there are so many states) the disagreement between the electoral college and the popular vote would evaporate if each state were apportioned enough electors in proportion to their population; since

the number of electors is determined by the number of Senators and Representatives,
the number of Senators must always be equal among states, and
Representatives are allocated in proportion to population BUT
the method of allocation gives less-proportional results when there are too few Reps to go around,

the way to give states more (and more proportional) electors is to give states more Representatives. We don't need to amend the Constitution to do this; we just need to Uncap The House, passing a law raising the size of the House from its current limit of 435. I would recommend pegging the size of the House to the cube root of the U.S. population.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 8:04 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]

> We've reached the Downfall moment of the campaign. (X)

MetaFilter: Persimmon. Woman. Man. Hamper. DVD.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:09 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]

Notice that the 2016 Trump campaign tried out a ton of different slogans and stuck with the ones that resonated with the crowd. Which they're clearly trying to do right now, but I don't think 2024 Trump has the cognitive ability to read the room like that anymore, plus he's got PTSD now and is afraid to appear in front of big crowds.

This is such a good point, and bears watching. Without big rallies to guide his policies, he can't come up with new material and new memes. And I think we saw that a little yesterday--his performance was both limited and repetitive; he didn't have many points to make, and couldn't make them particularly forcefully, because he needs that feedback, that public workshopping and honing.
posted by mittens at 8:13 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

I just think that now that we have a popular candidate, the forced-choice nature of the contest may work in our favor. Someone who is like "I am icked out by tampons and liberal overreach but don't really like Trump" seems less likely to stay home or vote Trump now because of momentum, having a better candidate and having a very likeable VP candidate.

Also, Walz is a very healthy-but-normative-masculinity type of guy, and it's going to be a lot harder to effectively tap into homophobia/gender-norms stuff when it's someone with strong dad vibes.
posted by Frowner at 8:22 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

Not just dad vibes, but Football Coach vibes
posted by rikschell at 8:26 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]

Between Walz and Travis Kelce, I'm kinda getting over my footballphobia.
posted by rikschell at 8:28 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Also, with all the Prince talk earlier, I can't believe no one brought up the one true song for the VP: the song Prince wrote for Sheena Easton, Sugar Walls.
posted by mittens at 8:33 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Though I agree with our side avoiding the schoolyard-level name-calling, perhaps it will be ok to appreciate some choice words & phrases read aloud by genial Scot David Tennant (from 2016 and still relevant!) [YT, 0:23]
Scottish English crash course for Donald Trump
posted by Glinn at 8:39 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

I think, if you want to encourage less mainstream voices, you want a mixed-member proportional representation system, or any kind of system where multiple people are seated per district. Lowering the threshold for someone to be elected makes it a lot easier for less mainstream candidates to be elected.

It is worth remembering that democracy cuts both ways: bigots have the same rights to representation, and they'll be able to get it if the threshold is lowered. Of course, this is currently happening in the existing system so it's hardly a compelling downside.
posted by Merus at 8:39 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

The problem with policy is that it doesn't mean much on the federal level unless accompanied by abolishing the filibuster, either fully or piecemeal.

You'll sign legislation restoring Roe on Day 1? Great! How's it going to get to your desk?

This to me is the true centrist-progressive divide: I'm all for a focus on kitchen table issues, and I want to improve the lives of as many people as possible, from the bottom up, the way they're doing in Minnesota. But without structural reforms like getting rid of the filibuster or expanding the Court, it's just words. And I think that comes through in the messaging sometimes.

Biden campaigned in 2020 in signing voting rights legislation as soon as he took office. How'd that work out?
posted by Gadarene at 8:54 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

(And not for nothing, but we'd be in a hell of a lot better position here in 2024 if there had been a scorched earth campaign, publicly and behind the scenes, to get rid of the filibuster for the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, or whatever it was called back then. If Biden even gave one speech about how an antiquated, Jim Crow-era procedural mechanism was preventing the Democrats from ensuring that everyone had the right to be heard at the ballot box and stifling democratic processes, I would be very, VERY surprised. Burn that political capital to make the world a better place; the world will thank you for it.)
posted by Gadarene at 8:59 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

As president, Harris could not easily make Roe v. Wade federal law − but she could still make it easier to get an abortion
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:00 AM on August 9 [5 favorites]

any kind of system where multiple people are seated per district.

I do like Fairvote's proposals for multi-winner ranked choice voting (which yields a form of proportional representation) a lot. And FairVote is getting some traction including in Minnesota under Tim Walz.

(But really I'm on team "almost anything is better than our current system." Right now there is no way to signal whether you're voting for someone or against someone else, whether you think two candidates are both good or both terrible, etc, and all the coalition-building has to be ad hoc within parties. So we can end up with outcomes that just don't really reflect the voters' will, because we haven't really asked the voters what their will is clearly enough.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:03 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Nuts-and-bolts logistical stuff are absolutely fundamental — the difference between sustainable society and chaos. The U.S. can function as well as it does because of (relatively) transparent and reliable enforcement of contracts and a stable currency. Take a look at nations that have neither and you see vast amounts of corruption, inflation and suffering.

There actually is some campaigning to be built on both. Trump wants to replace our whole system of laws with loyalty to him and him family, which is a recipe for wholesale corruption. He wants to trash the dollar and replace it with cryptocurrency, which I'm sure he sees as Trump Bucks; that's a recipe for a global financial apocalypse.

But it's a harder sell for people to see how these absolutely crucial issues affect them directly. Getting rid of the filibuster is inside-baseball stuff; so is differential application of tariffs. It may be best to pledge wonderful and specific outcomes (a clinic in every town; a lunch for every child; a good home for everyone willing to pay a fair price for it) and then work the process in governance.
posted by argybarg at 9:05 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Abortion rights, trans rights, cat lady and tampon BS: "Leave women alone!"
Inflation, food costs: "No more hungry children!", "Kids over profits!"
Climate: "Cheap energy is clean energy!"
posted by O Time, Thy Pyramids at 9:05 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Getting rid of the filibuster is inside-baseball stuff

I'm curious whether you're in favor of it.

and then work the process in governance

How has that been working out for us? :) Keeping inside baseball things inside baseball ensures that there's no public pressure on the people who are using those things to obstruct progress. Are Supreme Court term limits and ethics issues also inside baseball?
posted by Gadarene at 9:12 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Seems like the Harris campaign has been clear and simple positive messaging from the get-go, no?

Freedom, decency, neighbors. Especially the reclamation of "freedom".

Not the weird, buffalo-hat wearing kind that you yell out nonsensically after breaking into the congressional building, but freedom from fear, freedom to choose, freedom from hunger.
posted by ishmael at 9:13 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

And then they've been elaborating the messaging underneath those simple slogans.
posted by ishmael at 9:14 AM on August 9 [5 favorites]

the method of allocation gives less-proportional results when there are too few Reps to go around,

Is this true? The Wikipedia section on the “method of equal proportions” seems like the current method maximizes proportionality.
posted by lostburner at 9:18 AM on August 9

I'm in favor of getting rid of the filibuster, because it's a de facto supermajority requirement on every important vote. I just don't think it's much of a message for voters. If you can figure out how to make it salient to them, then great. Ditto Supreme Court ethics.

I do know that polls pretty consistently show that most voters don't even know who is in power in Congress. Getting them to care about procedural stuff is going to be, in my opinion, mighty hard.
posted by argybarg at 9:20 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]

Also, with all the Prince talk earlier, I can't believe no one brought up the one true song for the VP: the song Prince wrote for Sheena Easton, Sugar Walls.

I'm a fan of Tim Walz but not in such a way that I want him in my sugar walls.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:21 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

I'm not saying that getting rid of the filibuster needs to be front and center in messaging, although I do think that Supreme Court corruption is an issue that is easily packageable and that resonates. But I think that without filibuster reform, most policy promises are empty (at least as much as they're tied to legislation, tiny frying pan), and someone who's fundamentally in favor of the filibuster, as Biden was and is, is not very credible when promising to sign x legislation and y legislation...and I do think that comes through in the effectiveness of the messaging.

I hope Harris is different.
posted by Gadarene at 9:26 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

I mean, it's an interesting problem but it's a 2025 problem. If Harris wins and the Dems are lucky enough to have control of the House and Senate, getting rid of the filibuster is pretty much the only way Dems win the White House in 2028. You let the GOP just obstruct everything for the next four years, the Dem candidate is doomed. America can't survive another four years of that.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 9:31 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

I hope the Dems are preparing for issues the Republicans can bringup. This honeymoon phase will end once the elephants in the room bring up the elephants in the room (economy, inflation) that feel like they’ve gotten worse under a Democratic administration.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:31 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

I mean, it's an interesting problem but it's a 2025 problem.

I would argue that it was a 2021 problem. :)
posted by Gadarene at 9:33 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Boston Globe (located in John Kerry’s hometown) is not having it with Walz’s Swiftboating.
posted by rednikki at 9:35 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

To me there’s a lot of issues talk from the campaign, some position talk, and not much policy talk.

An issue is a problem to be solved.
A position is broadly how you think that problem should be solved (or isn’t a problem at all).
A policy is specifically what you plan to do about it.

So when I said I was ready for some policy, I’m talking about that third point.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:36 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Is there an example of policy talk that succeeded in a national campaign? I seem to remember that Al Gore's lockbox was a notable dud.
posted by argybarg at 9:38 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

Your question seems not even wrong to me.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:40 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Is this true? The Wikipedia section on the “method of equal proportions” seems like the current method maximizes proportionality.

It tries to maximize proportionality, but it must do so under the constraint of a given number of House members to allocate. Increasing the number of members makes that constraint less...constraining. The "quantization" here- where the number of Representatives allocated to a state must be a whole number of people- means that the fidelity of the system to true proportionality would be increased if more Representatives could be allocated.

Currently California has 53 Representatives, and Wyoming has 1 Representative. However, the population of California is more than 53 times that of Wyoming; it is 67 times larger. That is, if Wyoming is to have 1 Representative, California should, proportionally, have 67. But we don't have a big enough House of Representatives for that... yet!

(If you've ever seen one of those dopey "USA Today"-style infographics, just imagine trying to represent two people's wealth using a fixed number of dollar-bill icons. If you only have space for 10 dollar-bill icons, you cannot represent the relative wealth of a MetaFilter member and Jeff Bezos with any degree of proportionality... with that sort of distribution, you need to use more icons to depict it faithfully)
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 9:42 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

In lighter news, Steve Martin has turned down Lorne Michaels' offer to play Walz on SNL. Specifically because he says "I'm not an impressionist" and that they'll find someone who can do a better job and not just someone with white hair and glasses.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:49 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]

As a former prosecutor, I think Harris is in a great position to make the case for fair rules that are applied equally to all, as opposed to conservatives who want rules applied differently to in groups and out groups, or Trumpists who want to destroy any norms or rules that could restrict their wealth and power. The filibuster breaks the rule that the majority can pass legislation (and it’s failed to protect minority rights when Republicans have been in the majority, so it’s not worth keeping). I think lots and lots of political issues could be boiled down to “fair rules, fairly enforced.”
posted by rikschell at 9:49 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Re: proportionality

Adding two senators electoral votes to the votes from the representatives adds further disproportionality. Using the California:Wyoming example above, 55:3 (EV proportions) is very different from 67:1 (population proportions).

If we doubled the size of the house one might expect the gap in representation in the house to shrink and I don't have the exact numbers for this. But, assuming it might be more like 122:2 (cutting the disproportionality in half in representatives), the electoral votes come out 124:4, quite an improvement.
posted by Emmy Noether at 9:53 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]

I was just looking at Walz' Instagram and learned he pronounces "across" with "t" at the end. Is that a Midwestern thing? I hear it here in CA once in a blue moon but only from people in construction.

Anyway, I'm willing to call the election for Harris at this point.
posted by kensington314 at 9:56 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]

Somewhere up-thread a commenter mentioned Trump and a helicopter ride with Willie Brown, and I was like "huh?" and moved on.

CNN has an article that unpacks this some more, so I now understand what the issue was. (Apologies if this is a rehash of what folks already know.)

Long story short: Trump claimed to have been in a helicopter with Willie Brown (former mayor of San Francisco) when the helicopter had to make an emergency landing. Essentially every part of this story is false. (Shocking, I know.)

The truth:

1. Trump was in a helicopter in 2018 with then-Governor Jerry Brown and then-Mayor and Governor-Elect Gavin Newsom to tour California fire damage. Trump has never been in a helicopter with Willie Brown (who left office in 2004, long before Trump would have had any reason to be in a helicopter with him).

2. Per both Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsom, the helicopter never made an emergency landing, and never had a problem in flight.

3. Per Newsom, Trump commented repeatedly during the flight on the possible danger of crashing.

So what happened is basically Trump mixed up Jerry Brown for Willie Brown, and completely fabricated an emergency landing born very likely out of his own recalled anxiety of flying in the helicopter. (Oh, and also completely fabricated a conversation about Kamala Harris, as well.)

Anyway, there you are.
posted by darkstar at 9:57 AM on August 9 [34 favorites]

Well, to be fair it was an electric helicopter and they flew under a cloud and there were sharks below.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:00 AM on August 9 [15 favorites]

in more lighter news, I saw a reddit post where redditors were hyping Jim O'Heir as SNL Tim Walz and I gotta say that seems like a pretty sound pick.
posted by Sauce Trough at 10:05 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]

Is Drew Carey available?
posted by MtDewd at 10:08 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Ooh, I was gonna suggest John Goodman, but I love Jim O'Heir!
posted by ishmael at 10:09 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]

he pronounces "across" with "t" at the end. Is that a Midwestern thing?

Yes it is a Midwestern thing but not nearly universal. It grates on me (which is unreasonable and I keep it to myself) but the other phrasing Walz uses that's more Nebraska/Kansas in my experience is "needs fixed" instead of the far superior and correct "needs to be fixed." That one just makes me sad. I don't know why it bothers me but it sure does, probably from my English teacher mom who believes in absolutes around correct and incorrect usage and grammar.

And yes, it should be Jim O'Heir on SNL. He comes from improv and doesn't really need to change his voice, hair, face, etc. He'd be ready to go day 1, as they say.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:11 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]

It grates on me (which is unreasonable and I keep it to myself) but the other phrasing Walz uses that's more Nebraska/Kansas in my experience is "needs fixed" instead of the far superior and correct "needs to be fixed."

I definitely have my own linguistic nitpicks (the disappearing "L's" in words, see: Chuck Grassley speaking), but I find "needs fixed" charming. Maybe because I haven't hear it much before.
posted by ishmael at 10:18 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]

Long story short: Trump claimed to have been in a helicopter with Willie Brown (former mayor of San Francisco)

To people who spend time immersed in right-wing media, especially racists who hate cities and women, even mentioning Willie Brown's name in the general vicinity of Kamala Harris is a dogwhistle to a bunch of bullshit stories that I will not repeat here.
posted by box at 10:19 AM on August 9 [15 favorites]

"Needs fixed" is a perfectly cromulent phrase. It's non-standard grammar, but that's how language evolves.
posted by april of time at 10:31 AM on August 9 [11 favorites]

From that last snarky press release about TFG's public tantrum - I'd buy a "Joy and Freedom" campaign shirt. It's all vibes no policy, but... it's been a real nice couple of weeks.

"Feed schoolkids" for a policy soundbite.
posted by mersen at 10:32 AM on August 9 [5 favorites]

"Needs fixed" is a perfectly cromulent phrase.

Might could be.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:35 AM on August 9 [22 favorites]

"Needs fixed" is a perfectly cromulent phrase. It's non-standard grammar, but that's how language evolves.
But what about “needs fixing”? That’s my usual use of that particular flavor of phrasing. I am a Midwesterner who works in the building trades, although I was an English major in college, and have a deep love of language. Perhaps it’s that I’m more “Rust Belt” Midwest than “Grain Belt” Midwest….
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 10:50 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Also in lighter news, hat edition: The camo hat alone has already raised over 1 million dollars.

Until yesterday, the camo hat listed in the campaign store was specifically an "embroidered" hat. Yesterday, I noticed that the was a new listing for a "printed" hat (same price). Today only the printed version remains. I presume they are faster to make (and probably less expensive). So congrats to the hat early adopters who now hold a superior quality hat!
posted by mikepop at 10:59 AM on August 9 [12 favorites]

"Needs fixing" is fine, too. So much friction comes down to, "is diversity ok?" YES. YES IT IS. Is there an additional problem created where "needs fixed" hampers understanding? No? Move on.
posted by droomoord at 11:00 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Glad yall worked that jawn out cause I was fixin to chime in.

Jokes aside, I had gone looking for any Beyonce x Harris news the other day and stumbled upon somebody still not getting Kamala code switching. I realize some of the things you browse upon are bots, but if you meet anybody who still doesn't understand it, my goodness please get your xkcd on and explain it.
posted by cashman at 11:09 AM on August 9 [5 favorites]

Jokes aside, I had gone looking for any Beyonce x Harris news the other day and stumbled upon somebody still not getting Kamala code switching.

The people saying she suddenly acquired a "bad Southern accent" between Milwaukee and Georgia... I heard that and I was like ohhhhh my god I didn't realize how much she goddamn nailed the exact code switch for the MKE audience (because it was specifically in West Allis, which is primarily white working class families who like to think they're middle class and are not so racist they'll go on "urban crime" screeds but are maybe just a little nervous going downtown--). She saw this crowd and took notes.
posted by brook horse at 11:31 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

I'm fine with "draw," though, because without "draw," there would be no "chestadraw," so you couldn't say, for instance, "The chestadraw was pack full of termites, so I drug it out and thowed it on the burn pile."
posted by Don Pepino at 11:36 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Via New Republic: White Supremacist and Trump Ally thinks Trump will Lose

White supremacist, Hitler fan, and far-right political pundit Nick Fuentes shockingly revoked his support from Donald Trump’s campaign early Friday, announcing on social media that he and his allies believed that the presidential bid is headed for a “catastrophic loss.”

Notably, the deplorable arch-racist Fuentes isn’t citing any policy differences with Trump; he just doesn’t want to hitch his wagon to a loser.

See also: rats and sinking ships.
posted by darkstar at 12:00 PM on August 9 [24 favorites]

Look, at 81, do you remember Cary Grant? How good was Cary Grant, right? I don’t think Cary Grant — he was good. I don’t know what happened to movie stars today

When did Trump's brain stop recording information? Cary Grant's last movie was in 1966.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:02 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]

Cary Grant looked good in his old age. (looking good = good, in Trump's mind) Photograph at age 81. He died at 82.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:18 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]

ohhhhh my god I didn't realize how much she goddamn nailed the exact code switch for the MKE audience (because it was specifically in West Allis

Central! Not to be indecorous, but...go Bulldogs.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 12:18 PM on August 9

I think Harris is in a great position to make the case for fair rules that are applied equally to all

Democrats should propose a Fair Deal, like FDR's New Deal.

Middle-class people paying higher taxes than billionaires? That's not fair.

The wealth gap between America’s richest and poorer families more than doubled from 1989 to 2016. That's not fair.

The highest-earning 20% of families made more than half of all US income in 2018. That's not fair.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:24 PM on August 9 [9 favorites]

Especially every time TFG says something isn't fair.

"Isn't fair? You know what isn't fair ..."
posted by terrapin at 12:27 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]

More evidence of cognitive decline: Trump completely mixes up, confabulates, and invents-from-whole-cloth events from less than 6 years ago (archive)
posted by jedicus at 12:27 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Did he mix up Jerry Brown and Willie Brown? Kind of a David Keith/Keith David situation?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

He both confused Jerry and Willie Brown and confabulated events that apparently didn't happen on the helicopter ride with Jerry Brown.
posted by Justinian at 12:33 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

He also "mixed up" a helicopter nearly crashing with him just being afraid of a helicopter nearly crashing. And a conversation that never happened.
posted by mikepop at 12:34 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]

I don't listen that often to The Daily podcast because usual NYT reasons and yesterday's was heading in the direction by doorknocking with Dems in small town Wisconsin ... emphasizing two women who answered their doors and were noncommittal about Harris (recorded pre-Walz) but in a fairly striking segment at the end, the reporter, who hung back and talked to these women after the doorknockers moved on, had a striking exchange with the second women.

This woman (I forget her name) had been pretty noncommittal in the actual doorstep discussions -- sort of "both sides are uncivil" -- but afterwards, while chatting (including about abortion), her six year old daughter came out and hung on her knee, and the mom became quite emotional, audibly holding back tears, and said very intensely to the reporter, about her daughter - "she needs her rights."

Hopefully there are many like her.
posted by Rumple at 12:34 PM on August 9 [12 favorites]

It all underlines how fearful Trump is. I just think it's hard to campaign on. Maybe someone has ideas?
posted by mumimor at 12:35 PM on August 9

Well, obviously this will stop the Trump campaign dead in its tracks. If there is anything the GOP can't abide, it's hypocrisy. So they will definitely push for the same standard to be applied to be their candidate and...

No, I can't keep that bit going.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:38 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

I think it's way too early to start crowing about Trump's campaign being over or Harris being a sure win. But I'm excited to start canvassing tomorrow. It would be INCREDIBLE to prove that NC really is a swing state and push it blue for the first time since 2008!
posted by rikschell at 12:43 PM on August 9 [21 favorites]

Walz is a very healthy-but-normative-masculinity type of guy

I've been throwing around tonic masculinity since Brandon Blatcher mentioned it way upthread. A gender performance that soothes pain, eases burdens, and begins to neutralize the poison.
posted by longtime_lurker at 12:50 PM on August 9 [12 favorites]

Several comments about the “needs fixing” derail deleted. This thread has 1500+ comments so, please let's stay on topic.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:05 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

"New Position" is the Prince song for the campaign.

Climate groups happy with Harris' Tim Walz pick (NPR, 8/8/2024) Here’s what Tim Walz did on climate change as Minnesota governor...
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:24 PM on August 9 [10 favorites]

Fair Deal

Harry Truman already did that.
posted by jgirl at 1:40 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

See also: rats and sinking ships.

It gets even better!

From Ron Filipkowski, it appears both Joe Rogan and Tim Pool have also announced they are now voting for RFK Jr.
posted by bcd at 1:57 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

Honestly, though, do we think Trump has some trauma from the shooting? Going two weeks without a campaign rally…I don’t see the logic in it at all.
posted by girlmightlive at 1:57 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]

Who’d have guessed that Joe Rogan would end up with the literal brain worm candidate?
posted by rikschell at 2:00 PM on August 9 [12 favorites]

Rogan has walked that endorsement back somewhat while also praising Trump.

I went on the Joe Rogan sub and they are giving him a really hard time for doing that, saying he’s been “Rittenhoused.”
posted by girlmightlive at 2:03 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]

I guess I am on the hat news copy desk now: Fox News panel outraged by Harris/Walz camo hat

"It's a little bit of cultural appropriation."

posted by mikepop at 2:04 PM on August 9 [13 favorites]

LOL. "Cultural appropriation" -- what bullshit.

Walz is more of a hunter than 98% of the dudes that wear camo. The hunting culture is strong in Minnesota, and absolutely is not the purview of so-called "real Americans" who only vote for Republicans. Hell, I have more hunting and shooting experience than the majority of Republicans.

Sorry weirdos -- you don't get to claim hunting culture as only your cultural heritage.
posted by darkstar at 2:20 PM on August 9 [24 favorites]

"It's a little bit of cultural appropriation."

I want to know more about the culture they think this is appropriating. Hunters? Tim Walz is a known hunter. Chappell Roan fans? WHO DOESN'T LOVE THOSE SWEET BEATS?
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 2:23 PM on August 9 [5 favorites]

I think Trump absolutely has trauma from the shooting. He hasn't been the same since. And I'm going to keep saying so, because I think it has legs, in a "Doesn't she look tired?" way.
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:23 PM on August 9 [12 favorites]

Rogan and Pool have both walked back their announcements after much harassing. Cowards.
posted by rednikki at 2:25 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]

Who’d have guessed that Joe Rogan isn’t a man of his convictions?
posted by rikschell at 2:28 PM on August 9 [17 favorites]

losing tim pool's coveted endorsement??? man that's gotta sting considering the neutron star-like mass of his political influence

lol
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:38 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

ah, on preview: ofc he backed down, man has the spine of a wet noodle
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:39 PM on August 9

If all the big name online Nazis start fighting I’m totally going to take that as a win.
posted by Artw at 2:40 PM on August 9 [9 favorites]

yes. definite chimps with machine guns vibes in groyper world right now, it's glorious
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:43 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Here's How Kamala Harris Can Keep Georgia Blue - "Donald Trump's trashing of the state's very popular Republican governor helps the impressive ground game Democrats have been building there."

The Georgia split screen of Trump and Harris points to an opportunity for the vice president, with the Peach State offering a path to the White House that President Joe Biden simply didn’t have... Democrats have made surprising but long-fought-for strides in Georgia.

Biden became the first Democrat to win the state since Bill Clinton won in 1992. (Clinton lost the state to Senator Bob Dole in 1996.) Biden’s victory was slim, just under 12,000 votes. But it came on the strength of Black voters, who make up nearly a third of the electorate, suburban voters (particularly women), and the state’s increasing share of Latino and Asian American voters.

Georgia is unique among the swing states. It not only boasts 10 historically Black colleges and universities (HBCUs), but its capital is known as the cradle of the modern Civil Rights Movement. Not only that, there are groups that have been organizing young voters of color over the last few years, efforts that paid off for Warnock and Senator Jon Ossoff, elected in 2021...

The shortened window benefits Democrats who have proven that they can win in Georgia — given the right circumstances and candidate. Harris should also lean heavily into the past versus future framing — she embodies the kind of “new South” identity of Atlanta and surrounding suburbs in a way that Biden didn’t. Trump, 78, relishes the kind of divisive racial politics that embody the old South and likely turns off recent transplants. The Harris rally chant of “We’re not going back” and the Beyonce song “Freedom” have a particular meaning in a state like Georgia. Reminding disaffected voters why they turned on Trump and cheered in the streets when he lost will be key. The good news for Democrats is that Trump makes that part quite easy.

-Georgia State Election Board passes new rule allowing county boards to demand more information before certifying an election
-Georgia state Election Board Republicans order 2020 reinvestigation; Donald Trump celebrates
-Georgia Election Rule Prompts Concerns of Chaos and Delays
posted by kliuless at 2:46 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]

I went on the Joe Rogan sub and they are giving him a really hard time for doing that, saying he’s been “Rittenhoused.”

have they been calling joe rogan a tranny? because that's seemingly what got rittenhouse to back down. and given how rogan has been all-in on the trans hate train over the past few years, it'd be no surprise if, like rittenhouse, calling into question their masculinity in such a fashion would be unbearable.

(there was some weird overlap between the transvestigation crowd that was convinced rittenhouse was secretly born a woman... and transvestigators who were convinced that dylan mulvaney was also born a woman, then transed into a boy, who then transitioned back? and this is also setting aside that it's telling that they think being trans is a "bad" thing, but then again, seeing how so many liberals and self-purported allies were chortling over the rittenhousing of rittenhouse...)
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:01 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

Oh wow Trump lost Nick Fuentes as well. That’s a big name Nazi who I can’t wish enough intra-Nazi fights upon.
posted by Artw at 3:02 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]

ah, it looks like they're just calling joe rogan "gay" instead
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:11 PM on August 9

Anyway, I'm willing to call the election for Harris at this point.

Wow, really? Remember that Guardian columnist who called the election for Trump after he got shot? Lots of things will happen between now and November, and you probably won't like all of them.

If ever there was a time for not counting chickens before they hatch, a major U.S. presidential race is surely it.
posted by mediareport at 3:37 PM on August 9 [13 favorites]

More on Tim Walz, music fan

"When Beto O’Rourke and Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota served in Congress together in the 2010s, they would go on early morning jogs and talk about their shared love of music from Minnesota, from icons like Bob Dylan and Prince to the indie rock ferment the Twin Cities produced in the 1980s, including the Replacements and Hüsker Dü."

"Mr. Walz periodically texts about upcoming rock concerts in the Twin Cities or Mr. O’Rourke’s hometown, El Paso. “I love that he has got one of the most intense jobs in the world, all these things on his plate, but he finds time to reach out, to listen to music, to go to concerts,” Mr. O’Rourke, a onetime presidential hopeful, said in an interview."
posted by gingerbeer at 3:45 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Anyway, I'm willing to call the election for Harris at this point.

Ah, I took it as kensington314 saying this with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Dang, it's 2024 and we still haven't figured out tone-in-text yet.
posted by ishmael at 3:47 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Rednikki, is there some way to see the Boston Globe articles? I’ve seen that outlet linked a few times, now, and they’ve been articles I’m very interested in.
posted by tllaya at 3:54 PM on August 9

Yes, tongue in cheek. I love "acrosst" and I think other voters will love it too
posted by kensington314 at 3:56 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]

Whew, ok. I missed that essential context.
posted by mediareport at 3:58 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]

Some right-winger called Walz "Marxist Don Rickles" and I'd love to see SNL's Walz stand-in doing sick burns of Trump and Vance while promoting "socialist values" like feeding school children.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:10 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

Tllaya, I sure wish the Globe had a gift option but it does not. On the other hand, perhaps that is why they are one of the rare profitable papers in the country!
posted by rednikki at 4:13 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]

that's messed up, marxist don rickles is my favorite art noise band
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:13 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]

And now more on Bob Mould, Walz fan, including new song from Bob Mould...
posted by gingerbeer at 4:31 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — "Donald Trump's plane was diverted on its way to Bozeman, Montana, due to a mechanical issue but landed safely in nearby Billings."

Tim Walz will swing by to give it a tuneup.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:55 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]

Seen on the Facebook Pantsuit Nation page: "If Tim Walz is the man, I'm picking the man. If the man is J.D. Vance, I'm sticking with the bear."
posted by orange swan at 5:00 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]

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