We didn’t know all that stuff; we just knew how to find it
September 15, 2024 2:31 PM Subscribe
How do you find the life expectancy of a California condor? Google it. Or the gross national product of Morocco? Google it. Or the final resting place of Tom Paine? Google it. There was a time, however—not all that long ago—when you couldn’t Google it or ask Siri or whatever cyber equivalent comes next. You had to do it the hard way—by consulting reference books, indexes, catalogs, almanacs, statistical abstracts, and myriad other printed sources. Or you could save yourself all that time and trouble by taking the easiest available shortcut: You could call me. from The Department of Everything by Stephen Akey [Hedgehog Review]
My dad worked for NBC News in New York in the 1970s. I remember visiting him in Rockefeller Center.
He showed me the wire service room, filled with chattering teletypes bringing in the wire service updates from AP and UPI and Reuters.
And next to that was the room filled with phone books, white pages and yellow pages from every state and city in the country and probably overseas ones, too. Because if you were NBC News and you needed to find someone and call them, you’d need the phone book from wherever they were.
(I know this is only tangentially related to the post, but it’s such a strong memory for me from the before times.)
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:04 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
He showed me the wire service room, filled with chattering teletypes bringing in the wire service updates from AP and UPI and Reuters.
And next to that was the room filled with phone books, white pages and yellow pages from every state and city in the country and probably overseas ones, too. Because if you were NBC News and you needed to find someone and call them, you’d need the phone book from wherever they were.
(I know this is only tangentially related to the post, but it’s such a strong memory for me from the before times.)
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:04 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
> exactly how he was going to behave or staff would disconnect the line
Did he comply?
posted by constraint at 5:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Did he comply?
posted by constraint at 5:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
consulting reference books, indexes, catalogs, almanacs, statistical abstracts, and myriad other printed sources.
As amply represented by my Reference Librarian mom (and as drilled into my sister and I), This Is* The Way.
*was
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:27 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
As amply represented by my Reference Librarian mom (and as drilled into my sister and I), This Is* The Way.
*was
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:27 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]
InfoTrac™ changed it all.
5,242 volumes of reference books, 2000 rolls of microfilm / microfiche. the stacks, the back stacks, the map room and rare book collection. all that knowledge, nervous because you only have the 7th printing of Greta Pack' jewelry and enameling. or that a naturalistl guide to the Arctic might not have the latest information on pingos.
Infotrac™ changed it all.
posted by clavdivs at 5:50 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
5,242 volumes of reference books, 2000 rolls of microfilm / microfiche. the stacks, the back stacks, the map room and rare book collection. all that knowledge, nervous because you only have the 7th printing of Greta Pack' jewelry and enameling. or that a naturalistl guide to the Arctic might not have the latest information on pingos.
Infotrac™ changed it all.
posted by clavdivs at 5:50 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]
I grew up in Brooklyn and I remember my family calling this service. This would have been in the early 1970s. We wanted to know what the principal male dancer in a ballet troupe was called. I don't actually recall the answer we were given.
(Even web searches today are a little unclear on the matter but it might be either primo ballerino---what I seem to recall were all guessing---or for French troupes, premier danseur.)
This also reminds me of learning how to use the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature when I was in high school to do basic research. Apparently this still exists!
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:06 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
(Even web searches today are a little unclear on the matter but it might be either primo ballerino---what I seem to recall were all guessing---or for French troupes, premier danseur.)
This also reminds me of learning how to use the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature when I was in high school to do basic research. Apparently this still exists!
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:06 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]
When I worked at a bookstore in the 90’s my home town still had a library reference desk which was invaluable in finding books from the clues given by our customers. I still remember when someone asked about “a recent mystery by a Latin American writer with a Roman numeral in his name” (the answer was “Return To The Same City” by Paco Ignacio Taibo III)
posted by cali at 9:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
posted by cali at 9:13 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]
Katherine Hepburn is the sassy reference librarian who knows the answer to every question... but her job is threatened by AI! Desk Set 1957
posted by ovvl at 9:17 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 9:17 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]
I worked in a telephone reference department. Every word of this article is true. The stories I could tell. It could be kind of intense. Most people got a little twitchy after about three years. I was there for five. Last 18 months or so was when the internet was getting pretty ubiquitous and people were calling and saying “Could you type into the internet for me….” I resorted to volunteering to dress up as the summer reading mascot to get the hell away from the phone.
One pleasant interaction I’ll relate. There was a guy we called “Crossword Puzzle Man.” He called almost every day looking for help with his crossword puzzle. He had a gruff, rumbly voice. He didn’t want to chat. He just wanted his answer. One day he called:
Me: Telephone Reference, can I help you?
CWPM: [No preliminaries or hellos] Snoop Doggy blank. Four letters.
Me: Dogg
CWPM: Four letters.
Me: Dogg has two g’s,
CWPM: Thank you. You know everything. *click*
posted by marxchivist at 9:30 PM on September 15 [27 favorites]
One pleasant interaction I’ll relate. There was a guy we called “Crossword Puzzle Man.” He called almost every day looking for help with his crossword puzzle. He had a gruff, rumbly voice. He didn’t want to chat. He just wanted his answer. One day he called:
Me: Telephone Reference, can I help you?
CWPM: [No preliminaries or hellos] Snoop Doggy blank. Four letters.
Me: Dogg
CWPM: Four letters.
Me: Dogg has two g’s,
CWPM: Thank you. You know everything. *click*
posted by marxchivist at 9:30 PM on September 15 [27 favorites]
In college I was a student assistant at the reference desk. One day this huge guy wearing a checked shirt and construction worker boots stomps in. He thumps his hands on my desk and towers over me and says in a raspy voice, "I wanna know how bad I can hurt someone before it's a felony". I point to the right and stammer, "You'll have to talk to our reference librarian". Ms. Zitterkopf is behind the desk that shift. She is a tall willowy woman with frizzy grey hair and actual cat-eye glasses. She stands up calmly, every bit his height, and says, "Walk with me" and heads off into the reference stacks without looking back. Ten minutes later the guy walks out looking calmer and almost thoughtful. Ms. Zitterkopf sits back down at her desk, a private little smirk on her face. I didn't know it at the time but that's probably when I decided I was going to get my MLIS.
posted by technodelic at 10:50 PM on September 15 [30 favorites]
posted by technodelic at 10:50 PM on September 15 [30 favorites]
I am still occasionally a reference librarian and it is frankly quite jarring how bad Google actually is at getting accurate, reproducible, citeable answers to all but the most facile "ready reference" questions.
People assume that the answer they received is correct but don't really have a mental model of what veracity means in the case of a market-driven search engine. It's always fun to come up with examples for my intro writing classes.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:32 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
People assume that the answer they received is correct but don't really have a mental model of what veracity means in the case of a market-driven search engine. It's always fun to come up with examples for my intro writing classes.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:32 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
As a librarian, I always cringe when friends tell me they tried to look for a thing online and "found nothing" as some sort of evidence that there wasn't anything there to find. When I graduated from library school there was still a hefty telephone reference department at Seattle Public, where I worked. This article was a nice nostalgia trip. My library still does some of this kind of reference but most of the people who answer the phone aren't as resourceful as this person was. As he says"
"we learned not merely how to find information but how to think about finding information. Don’t take anything for granted; don’t trust your memory; look for the context; put two and three and four sources together, if necessary. Sometimes it was difficult to communicate such variables to our callers, who just wanted a quick answer rather than a disquisition on the mistaken assumption that the transmission of information was a straightforward matter."
posted by jessamyn at 10:20 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
"we learned not merely how to find information but how to think about finding information. Don’t take anything for granted; don’t trust your memory; look for the context; put two and three and four sources together, if necessary. Sometimes it was difficult to communicate such variables to our callers, who just wanted a quick answer rather than a disquisition on the mistaken assumption that the transmission of information was a straightforward matter."
posted by jessamyn at 10:20 AM on September 16 [4 favorites]
Is this the place where I get to get on my "look in Bartlett's for god's sake you can't just MAKE UP quotations and post them on the Internet" hobby horse?
I could go on, of course, but you all know what I'm talking about. Thanks for posting!
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:50 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
I could go on, of course, but you all know what I'm talking about. Thanks for posting!
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:50 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]
Another Tel Ref story.
Of course, we had nicknames for all our regulars. One was "The Lady in the Well." She was named this for two reasons: 1. Her voice always sounded muffled and very far away. Like she was calling from the bottom of a well. 2. She often called and asked us what day of the week it was. This led us to believe maybe she really did live at the bottom of well. She also very often called and asked us to look in the rhyming dictionary, "Can you read me a list of words that rhyme with *whatever word*" She wasn't a problem, but we couldn't help making fun of her. When you're in a room for eight hours with two or three other people you grow desperate for things to talk about it. Making fun of the callers was one way to relieve stress and pass the time.
At some point she mailed us a book of poetry she had written. The book had been printed at a copy shop and bound with those plastic rings. It was very Hallmark card-ish poetry. A lot of stuff about being friends with Jesus. She even thanked the telephone reference staff in the acknowledgments.
From reading the author bio, we saw she had MS and was confined to a wheelchair.
We all felt like a bunch of assholes at that point.
posted by marxchivist at 10:59 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
Of course, we had nicknames for all our regulars. One was "The Lady in the Well." She was named this for two reasons: 1. Her voice always sounded muffled and very far away. Like she was calling from the bottom of a well. 2. She often called and asked us what day of the week it was. This led us to believe maybe she really did live at the bottom of well. She also very often called and asked us to look in the rhyming dictionary, "Can you read me a list of words that rhyme with *whatever word*" She wasn't a problem, but we couldn't help making fun of her. When you're in a room for eight hours with two or three other people you grow desperate for things to talk about it. Making fun of the callers was one way to relieve stress and pass the time.
At some point she mailed us a book of poetry she had written. The book had been printed at a copy shop and bound with those plastic rings. It was very Hallmark card-ish poetry. A lot of stuff about being friends with Jesus. She even thanked the telephone reference staff in the acknowledgments.
From reading the author bio, we saw she had MS and was confined to a wheelchair.
We all felt like a bunch of assholes at that point.
posted by marxchivist at 10:59 AM on September 16 [5 favorites]
"look in Bartlett's for god's sake you can't just MAKE UP quotations and post them on the Internet"
- Mark Twain
posted by lostburner at 12:49 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
- Mark Twain
posted by lostburner at 12:49 PM on September 16 [6 favorites]
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As well as writers of all sorts and of course a few crackpots and proto-boomers. I had a phone patron ask for the pronunciation of various sex terms that he would spell for me.
Our branch had a guy who would yell at you if he didn’t like how you were reading him the daily headlines (or your possible accent while doing so). He eventually was sent a letter from our branch mgr outlining exactly how he was going to behave or staff would disconnect the line.
So yes this article certainly rings true, especially the rule of not using your personal knowledge to answer the question.
posted by calgirl at 4:21 PM on September 15 [8 favorites]