“Yes, run into the back of his car”
October 6, 2024 7:58 PM Subscribe
Usually when a teenager is driving 120 mph and runs into a police car it’s considered a bad thing. Not always, though.
Good on the kid for thinking clearly. I would absolutely have freaked out or frozen up, and made a much worse ending of it for me and/or others. Zero points to Honda's PR department here:
posted by It is regrettable that at 8:41 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
The family should take the vehicle in to a dealership for an inspection, a Honda spokeswoman told The Associated Press. The company could not comment further until an inspection was done, she said.If you can't even muster a "we are so glad to hear Mr. Dutcher is safe," then maybe you shouldn't be a spokesperson.
posted by It is regrettable that at 8:41 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
If you can't even muster a "we are so glad to hear Mr. Dutcher is safe," then maybe you shouldn't be a spokesperson.
To be fair to Honda, it looks like Oregon Live wasn't posting their full response, but two lines they perceived relevant to the article. Note that there are no quotes around the text--they could be summarizing. It's quite conceivable it was in there but not shared by the site.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:50 PM on October 6
To be fair to Honda, it looks like Oregon Live wasn't posting their full response, but two lines they perceived relevant to the article. Note that there are no quotes around the text--they could be summarizing. It's quite conceivable it was in there but not shared by the site.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:50 PM on October 6
that 911 call from his mother ...
"Well this is going to sound absolutely crazy but so we've been having problems with my car and took it to the shop because we had an incident where the accelerator stuck and well my son is driving the car currently cause I'm in the loaner car ..."
So they knew there was a potentially lethal problem but drove it anyway.
posted by roue at 9:16 PM on October 6 [6 favorites]
"Well this is going to sound absolutely crazy but so we've been having problems with my car and took it to the shop because we had an incident where the accelerator stuck and well my son is driving the car currently cause I'm in the loaner car ..."
So they knew there was a potentially lethal problem but drove it anyway.
posted by roue at 9:16 PM on October 6 [6 favorites]
Did the kid steal the car back from the shop? If they had a loaner then presumably the car is in the shop right? Unless they have two Hondas? I don't get the logistics here.
posted by axiom at 9:53 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
posted by axiom at 9:53 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
All the tests of stuck accelerators show that brakes easily overpower the engine, but fail quickly. If you get a stuck accelerator, stop immediately and stay stopped until the fault is fixed. The problem people run into is that the first stop seems easy, so they set off again even though the brakes are fried and the engine isn't fixed. Stop and stay stopped.
I think this is one of the big advantages of key ignitions: they usually shut off the car instantly with one click out of Run. This is hard to do if you haven't practiced becuase the standard action is to turn it completely off and remove the key, which locks the steering wheel. In a safe area you can practice turning it one click, and also learn how the steering and brakes work without assist. Some say it's too dangerous to try to run without power, but I think it's dangerous to not understand how to operate the systems without assist. Of course this doesn't apply to cars that don't work at all witout power like the Cybertruck.
posted by netowl at 10:05 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
I think this is one of the big advantages of key ignitions: they usually shut off the car instantly with one click out of Run. This is hard to do if you haven't practiced becuase the standard action is to turn it completely off and remove the key, which locks the steering wheel. In a safe area you can practice turning it one click, and also learn how the steering and brakes work without assist. Some say it's too dangerous to try to run without power, but I think it's dangerous to not understand how to operate the systems without assist. Of course this doesn't apply to cars that don't work at all witout power like the Cybertruck.
posted by netowl at 10:05 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
If the SUV was stuck at max acceleration and was going 120 mph through the small town, how did it slow to 50 mph before it hit the trooper's car?
posted by Warren Terra at 10:22 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
posted by Warren Terra at 10:22 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
In addition to the above, shifting to neutral should always work and should be the first action you take (prior to trying either the brakes or ignition).
(I say "should" because there's always a 1 in a trillion chance there is a weird computer bug or cosmic ray bit flip that prevents it from happening)
If you do go down the ignition route, for push start button cars, you need to hold the start-stop button for a few seconds to shut it off while it is in motion. This is a safety feature to prevent someone from accidentally turning off the car while it is being driven, but can confuse people who don't know this is a thing.
posted by xdvesper at 10:32 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
(I say "should" because there's always a 1 in a trillion chance there is a weird computer bug or cosmic ray bit flip that prevents it from happening)
If you do go down the ignition route, for push start button cars, you need to hold the start-stop button for a few seconds to shut it off while it is in motion. This is a safety feature to prevent someone from accidentally turning off the car while it is being driven, but can confuse people who don't know this is a thing.
posted by xdvesper at 10:32 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
The brake wouldn’t work, he couldn’t shift into neutral, and before long, the runaway SUV was speeding into the western Minnesota countryside with no way to stop.
posted by pwnguin at 10:52 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 10:52 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
I remember a writeup of a similar case from ages ago, in Reader's Digest of all places. I still don't get how a stuck accelerator can stop the gear shift, but I admit I've never tried to shift into neutral at high speeds, is there some mechanism that prevents shifting into neutral at sufficient speed?
posted by tavella at 11:05 PM on October 6
posted by tavella at 11:05 PM on October 6
Many times people claimed the brakes wouldn't work but the data recorder log afterwards showed the brakes were never pressed. It's a common enough mistake where someone is 100% sure they're pressing the brakes but they're actually pressing the accelerator - I've seen so many accidents occur that way. I'm not immune to this either, once I nearly had an accident where I was in a very slow moving drive through queue, I shifted from park to reverse (instead of drive) and pressed the accelerator and nearly hit the car behind me.
Same for people who claim they "can't" shift to neutral, they might have shifted to park instead (which is not allowed during motion).
You can test this out, 1 million out of 1 million times you will be able to shift to neutral. I've done this many times coasting down a long elevated highway offramp in neutral and compared to doing it in drive. It's better in drive, as the fuel consumption actually goes to zero, while in neutral the engine still idles and consumes petrol. (edit: in this specific make of vehicles I was using, I can't speak for every car on the planet...)
posted by xdvesper at 11:12 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
Same for people who claim they "can't" shift to neutral, they might have shifted to park instead (which is not allowed during motion).
You can test this out, 1 million out of 1 million times you will be able to shift to neutral. I've done this many times coasting down a long elevated highway offramp in neutral and compared to doing it in drive. It's better in drive, as the fuel consumption actually goes to zero, while in neutral the engine still idles and consumes petrol. (edit: in this specific make of vehicles I was using, I can't speak for every car on the planet...)
posted by xdvesper at 11:12 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
> If the SUV was stuck at max acceleration and was going 120 mph through the small town, how did it slow to 50 mph before it hit the trooper's car?
The crash avoidance systems kicked in and slowed the car down before impact.
Keep in mind this was a software bug, not a mechanical issue. It was possible for the car to slow down, just not possible for the foot pedals to achieve that piercing outcome.
posted by constraint at 11:28 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
The crash avoidance systems kicked in and slowed the car down before impact.
Keep in mind this was a software bug, not a mechanical issue. It was possible for the car to slow down, just not possible for the foot pedals to achieve that piercing outcome.
posted by constraint at 11:28 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
I'd imagine that even in drive-by-wire cars, "shifting into neutral" would be so vital for safety that there has to be some sort of failsafe that mechanically overrides the computer?
posted by runcifex at 12:24 AM on October 7
posted by runcifex at 12:24 AM on October 7
The Honda Pilot has a push-button shifter, that is likely wired to the ECU, not to any mechanical failsafes.
Shifting into Neutral the normal way while the engine is running requires depressing the brake pedal, which is likely controlled by the ECU software. Attempting to shift into Reverse will take it to Neutral instead.
If the ECU was stuck in a loop due to bad coding, it very well could have stopped attending to shifter cluster altogether.
Holding down the engine start/stop button for several seconds will power off the engine regardless of all other circumstances. Be prepared for power steering and brake booster being taken offline; use both hands on the wheel and both feet on the brake pedal. I believe this is the ultimate general failsafe for any push-button on/off car.
For anyone thinking "what would I do in this scenario", as soon as you find yourself unable to stop accelerating, power the car off any way you possibly can. Troubleshooting will take time you don't have, as this kid found out.
For anyone who drives or teaches someone to drive or has kids who drive, please introduce the conversation: "How would you stop the car if the brakes failed? How would you stop the car if the gas pedal failed? How would you stop the car if the gas pedal got stuck at full throttle?". It's important to talk through the scenario before it happens, so that they understand three important things:
- The car can crash for all you care
- So long as they come home alive
- By disabling the engine if needed
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:52 AM on October 7 [3 favorites]
Shifting into Neutral the normal way while the engine is running requires depressing the brake pedal, which is likely controlled by the ECU software. Attempting to shift into Reverse will take it to Neutral instead.
If the ECU was stuck in a loop due to bad coding, it very well could have stopped attending to shifter cluster altogether.
Holding down the engine start/stop button for several seconds will power off the engine regardless of all other circumstances. Be prepared for power steering and brake booster being taken offline; use both hands on the wheel and both feet on the brake pedal. I believe this is the ultimate general failsafe for any push-button on/off car.
For anyone thinking "what would I do in this scenario", as soon as you find yourself unable to stop accelerating, power the car off any way you possibly can. Troubleshooting will take time you don't have, as this kid found out.
For anyone who drives or teaches someone to drive or has kids who drive, please introduce the conversation: "How would you stop the car if the brakes failed? How would you stop the car if the gas pedal failed? How would you stop the car if the gas pedal got stuck at full throttle?". It's important to talk through the scenario before it happens, so that they understand three important things:
- The car can crash for all you care
- So long as they come home alive
- By disabling the engine if needed
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:52 AM on October 7 [3 favorites]
A car forum considered this and noted that:
> A 2022 Pilot has a ZF 9-speed automatic transmission that uses a completely separate computer from the one that controls the engine. Holding the neutral button will shift the transmission to neutral even if the engine computer fails.
That's not documented in the manual but it's very useful to know, and seems likely to work on other vehicles as well.
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:00 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
> A 2022 Pilot has a ZF 9-speed automatic transmission that uses a completely separate computer from the one that controls the engine. Holding the neutral button will shift the transmission to neutral even if the engine computer fails.
That's not documented in the manual but it's very useful to know, and seems likely to work on other vehicles as well.
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:00 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
> You can test this out, 1 million out of 1 million times you will be able to shift to neutral
Note that in general testing emergency neutral shifting at slow speeds, i.e. first gear territory like 5-10mph, is statistically less likely to harm engines and transmissions than testing at faster speeds. Many cars will do fine with this at any speed; other cars have a statistical probability to take component damage increasing with vehicle speed and duration in neutral.
For cars with automatic emergency braking, I don't see any documentation on whether it continues to operate when the car is in neutral. I do not suggest finding out if you only have one car to test with.
I would expect an auto insurance claim to be denied if the car is in neutral and in motion, regardless of whether AEB is present and/or active; voluntarily disabling the ability of the car to accelerate while in motion is a safety hazard if an emergency lane change or out of control driver from behind you require immediate acceleration inputs to avoid a crash.
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:28 AM on October 7
Note that in general testing emergency neutral shifting at slow speeds, i.e. first gear territory like 5-10mph, is statistically less likely to harm engines and transmissions than testing at faster speeds. Many cars will do fine with this at any speed; other cars have a statistical probability to take component damage increasing with vehicle speed and duration in neutral.
For cars with automatic emergency braking, I don't see any documentation on whether it continues to operate when the car is in neutral. I do not suggest finding out if you only have one car to test with.
I would expect an auto insurance claim to be denied if the car is in neutral and in motion, regardless of whether AEB is present and/or active; voluntarily disabling the ability of the car to accelerate while in motion is a safety hazard if an emergency lane change or out of control driver from behind you require immediate acceleration inputs to avoid a crash.
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:28 AM on October 7
How likely is it that shutting off the engine at speed is harmful to the car? Doing this and shifting to neutral ant speed are things I’d like to rehearse and teach my kids if it makes sense to do so.
posted by lostburner at 2:26 AM on October 7
posted by lostburner at 2:26 AM on October 7
Stories like this make me glad I got my daughter a car with three pedals.
posted by TedW at 4:00 AM on October 7
posted by TedW at 4:00 AM on October 7
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