Ouch!

November 25, 2024 4:32 AM

In a nation's first, a health department in southwest Idaho bans administration of COVID-19 vaccines (AP News). 💉🦠🇺🇸
posted by rubatan (63 comments total)

Go away! Bating!
posted by flabdablet at 4:42 AM on November 25, 2024 [15 favorites]

The justification given in the article is:

… people can get vaccinated elsewhere, and that providing the shots was equivalent to signing off on their safety.

An argument that could be made by a local health department about any form of community medicine, which I guess might be the point if their goal is to decimate health care for the groups they serve.

I just fear a next step where the new FDA to shirk responsibility for signing off on new drugs because that should be down to the states and local communities, and then I guess the plan is complete? Unregulated private healthcare and non existent public healthcare.
posted by rh at 5:01 AM on November 25, 2024 [11 favorites]

A good thread to put a pin in for when people talk about how easy it is to get a job in the U.S., as long as you're geographically flexible.
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:03 AM on November 25, 2024 [27 favorites]

Considering the person who's going to be running the FDA is a Project 2025 zealot, I'd say the odds are pretty much 100% that the FDA will be abandoning all of its responsibilities and any FDA workers who try to keep doing their jobs will be fired.
posted by sotonohito at 5:20 AM on November 25, 2024 [12 favorites]

Opposite Jansen’s plea were more than 290 public comments, many of which called for an end to vaccine mandates or taxpayer funding of the vaccines, neither of which are happening in the district.

Once again, Trumpists are tilting at imaginary windmills to the detriment of all of us.
posted by TedW at 5:29 AM on November 25, 2024 [11 favorites]

This might be the whole U.S. soon. I hate the feeling of impending doom.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:40 AM on November 25, 2024 [17 favorites]

The worst thing about the feeling of impending doom is the sense that I'm contributing to it.
posted by box at 5:42 AM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

I live in eastern Idaho and was unable to get a covid vaccine last year due to a venn diagram of availablity, insurance rules and a economics. It was shockley difficult to even figure out I couldn't get a vaccine without some trick. My solution was to simply walk into a drug store the next time I passed through NYC. The future is here it's just unevenly distributed.
posted by Agent_X_ at 5:50 AM on November 25, 2024 [20 favorites]

That's not my sense.

When Up is Down and Down is Up, facts are choosable, and authority is literally wackadoo, it feels like what can we do? Even with all that's happened. I never expected things like the FDA protections could just go away.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:51 AM on November 25, 2024 [6 favorites]

The future is here it's just unevenly distributed.

..and apparently uses Idiocracy as its pattern.

This is the stupidest, most bass-ackwards thing I have ever heard of in my life, and that includes me being upset my TV show was being pre-empted by something called "Watergate hearings". (I was four and it was The Electric Company. At the time, it was important to me; in retrospect I was four and didn't understand the importance of it.)
posted by mephron at 5:54 AM on November 25, 2024 [14 favorites]

movie trailer vo: in a universe where a president could be put on trial for lying ...

[ record scratch ]

gen z teenager: the rules in that universe would get changed, DUH
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:24 AM on November 25, 2024 [4 favorites]

Definitely sorry if that is too clickbaity without commentary. I don’t mean to make it doom worthy.

It seems newsworthy on grounds of significance: as a first this would be unfathomable at other times, if it’s the beginning of a trend. With RFL Jr at the helm, presumably denial of services won’t be challenged.
posted by rubatan at 6:27 AM on November 25, 2024

This is disturbing; thanks for posting.

However, I think the post is misleading and should be reworded. As the AP headline states, "An Idaho health department isn’t allowed to give COVID-19 vaccines anymore." The staff of the health department wanted to keep providing vaccines: They are the subjects of the ban by their board. And although this will definitely reduce access to vaccines, they will still be provided by community health centers and other health providers.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:32 AM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

How do you parse that, Mr Know it some? I just read it again and am not seeing the distinction.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:49 AM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

Fundamentalism is when just having faith doesn't make sense anymore so they must create a demand for it.
posted by Brian B. at 7:02 AM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

Idaho is constantly cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. Its harsh anti-abortion laws have made it so hostile to obgyns that rural pregnancy support is hard to find and women have to travel hundreds of miles for prenatal care.

Their laws "protecting" children from unwanted books have forced at least one library to close.

Right-wing ideological purity fights resulted in a community college losing accreditation.

There's no shortage of crazies here in Montana, but so far, our courts and constitution have saved us from the worst of it.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:15 AM on November 25, 2024 [8 favorites]

I initially interpreted "a health department in southwest Idaho bans administration of COVID-19 vaccines" to mean that the health department told health providers in southwest Idaho (that is, doctors, pharmacies, and hospitals in that region) that they were prohibited from administering vaccines.

In fact, the board of the health department decided that the health department would no longer provide vaccines, but other providers are still allowed to provide vaccines. I think it's a bad decision, but it's quite different than banning other organizations from vaccinating patients.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:19 AM on November 25, 2024 [9 favorites]

Does that mean only for profit providers can offer them? 🤔
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:22 AM on November 25, 2024 [1 favorite]

any FDA workers who try to keep doing their jobs will be fired jailed
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 7:31 AM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

..and apparently uses Idiocracy as its pattern

Idahocracy

Uhh... this one. This one goes in your mouth.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on November 25, 2024 [1 favorite]

Does that mean only for profit providers can offer them?

No. The article mentions no restrictions on organizations other than the health department and even says that "vaccines are still available at community health centers for people who are uninsured."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:57 AM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

Yeah but this is sad

The people getting vaccinated at the health department — including people without housing, people who are homebound and those in long-term care facilities or in the immigration process — had no other options, Jansen and Aberasturi said.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:04 AM on November 25, 2024 [5 favorites]

There's been a spike in whopping cough cases in the US, a preventable (via vaccine) disease, no doubt due to parents not getting their children vaccinated as they might have in the past. Even where vaccines are available, the antivaxer's rhetoric has taken hold. And the rest of us will suffer.
posted by tommasz at 8:07 AM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

Their laws "protecting" children from unwanted books have forced at least one library to close.


I'm pretty sure that's the intended result. They hate books and learning.
posted by sotonohito at 8:49 AM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

More local reporting on the story from Boise State Public Radio.
posted by VelveteenBabbitt at 9:12 AM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

I think the problem, in general, was the decision to call it a vaccine. It is a shot that may prevent you from getting covid, but more likely will mitigate the extend of the illness if you do get it. They call it a Flu shot, not a Flu vaccine. If they were straight with calling it what it is from the beginning, some/many/most(?), would not have lost trust in Big Pharma or the CDC/FDA. "Hey I waited on line after making an appointment, got this untested injection they promised would keep me from getting this covid thing, and weeks later I had covid even after a booster." I blame the rollout and the conflicting information by whomever was responsible for the federal government information release.

I got my shots for covid back when they first came out and got a booster too when that was first released. But, I am old enough to not worry about what the long-term affects maybe. 20 years from now when I am in my 80s, whatever the covid "vaccine" did to me, who cares? I think they should be readily available to anyone who wants one, but I think more people would opt in if they were told from the beginning what the shot was all about. Injection rates are all about trusting the government and Big Pharma. Mainly government as the federales have indemnified big pharma from lawsuits for the shots.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:55 AM on November 25, 2024 [1 favorite]

They call it a Flu shot, not a Flu vaccine.
"They" definitely call it a vaccine.
posted by ch1x0r at 9:58 AM on November 25, 2024 [32 favorites]

Counter: I have never--truly, I mean never--heard anyone casually speak about getting their annual flu vaccine. Always "flu shot." And that "always" includes medical professionals I interact with, socially, professionally, or as a patient. Come to think of it, that seems strange, and I wonder about the extent to which that's the result of a PR campaign for just this end.
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:05 AM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

I was on a climbing trip to City of Rocks in Idaho (a glorious area) and was at a place having lunch. We asked where to dispose of our cans and plastics and were told they couldn’t recycle anything because “you know, it’s Idaho”.

Yes, I realize that there are many issues with recycling but the fact that they don’t even bother trying is depressing and telling.
posted by misterpatrick at 10:07 AM on November 25, 2024 [4 favorites]

I'm sorry are you saying that people think "shot" and "Vaccine" mean different things scientifically? Because...what? Or that nobody uses the word "vaccine" to talk about the influenza VACCINE? Because again, what??
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:23 AM on November 25, 2024 [20 favorites]

If they were straight with calling it what it is from the beginning,

A different example of not being straight was Faucii on masks. To prevent N95 hording the public was told they didn't need to have N95 masks. Later Fauci admitted the mask issue of not working was to prevent hording. Fauci before covid would on occasion state the levels of Vit D he was taking. Other nations based on evidence have statements about Vit D and viruses but not the US of A.

There were statements made about how N95 masks needed to be made in USA yet the government and private healthcare industry isn't actually supporting the USA production of the N95 mask supply chain per statements by a USA N95 mask maker.

Not being straight with the citizens over time is why when people question an official statement from government or large corps one can't go to a defensible position of 'authority figures have no reason to lie'. Instead the reaction to a question of authority gets 'conspiracy theory' or the newer thing is 'Russian/Chinese agent of chaos' VS those wanting authority acting in a way where the citizens would have little reason to question their veracity.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:38 AM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

(Look, I get that messaging around what specifically the COVID vaccines could achieve was muddled. But it had nothing to do with calling something a "vaccine" vs a "shot." It was because they said "reduce transmission and severity, and possibly prevent transmission in some cases" and everyone just jumped on that last part because that's what they wanted to hear. Once people have heard what they want to hear, they cannot unhear it and when reality betrays them, they will blame reality and not their own self-deception.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:46 AM on November 25, 2024 [22 favorites]

Yeah uh....loonies who don't want to learn about facts are going to disregard facts no matter what. The messaging about the covid vaccine reducing likelihood of transmission and severity of illness was clear. But some never listened or cared and they sure don't now either.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:55 AM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

I think it is unlikely that there is a single paying member of MetaFilter who does not understand that "flu shot" = "flu vaccine." Per Wikipedia, the influenza vaccine is "colloquially known as flu shots[14] or the flu jab,[15]." That aligns with my experience, and more -- I just can't remember a person ever saying the words "flu vaccine" or "influenza vaccine" to me.
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:05 AM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

cupcakeninja, I was responding to this:

I think the problem, in general, was the decision to call it a vaccine. It is a shot that may prevent you from getting covid, but more likely will mitigate the extend of the illness if you do get it. They call it a Flu shot, not a Flu vaccine.

Which definitely seems to imply some different understanding of "shot" vs "vaccine" that I do not think meaningfully exists. Moreover, people do NOT have a clear, nuanced understanding of how the flu shot works. They are equally pissed and disaffected when they get their flu shot and then get the flu -- it's a big reason why flu shot uptake is so shitty!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:14 AM on November 25, 2024 [13 favorites]

Which definitely seems to imply some different understanding of "shot" vs "vaccine" that I do not think meaningfully exists.

You don't? Even after learning that apparently no one knew what a freaking tariff was or how they work before they voted for TFG? After finding out that people legit thought one could CHANGE YOUR VOTE after you voted?

Never, EVER underestimate how fucking stupid people are.
posted by tristeza at 12:53 PM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

Well then we have bigger problems than worrying about which word we use, I mean honestly

If one word is the problem then we will not be able to explain the particulars effectively anyway
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:56 PM on November 25, 2024 [5 favorites]

Never, EVER underestimate how fucking stupid people are.

On the contrary: It took the antivax industry pouring millions into 'thinkpieces,' blogs, tweets, podcasts, documentaries and political candidates, to get us to this place. Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by a vast (and open) right-wing conspiracy. We weren't going to win this one by changing the word "vaccine" to "shot."
posted by mittens at 1:03 PM on November 25, 2024 [15 favorites]

I'm just saying that in 5 decades on this planet I've never once heard anyone say, in print or in media or in person, that they thought a "shot" was different from a "vaccine."

I have heard people say things that suggest they don't understand how a vaccine works in any meaningful way, obviously. But never that they think it's because it's a different thing from "a shot."

I've heard, by contrast, approximately eleventy billion people say they thought the ACA was different from Obamacare. Including people who should know better!

I know that people are impossibly stupid, I just don't think "shots are different from vaccines in the sense that shots do X but vaccines do Y" is a thing that exists in a widespread way. Someone is welcome to provide me with documentation to the contrary if I'm wrong!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:11 PM on November 25, 2024 [10 favorites]

It is a shot that may prevent you from getting covid, but more likely will mitigate the extend of the illness if you do get it.

All vaccines work like that, none are considered 100%. MMR for example is only about 95% effective. This is one of the reasons letting people opt out is bad policy. Having a large unvaccinated population puts the people for whom a vaccine didn't work at elevated risk.

They call it a Flu shot, not a Flu vaccine.

I know we are often separated by a common language but here in BC all health agencies call it a vaccine.

I mean what would you call it if not an immunization campaign? A shot campaign?
posted by Mitheral at 2:14 PM on November 25, 2024 [7 favorites]

According to google, if you query "is the flu shot a vaccine" you find that people also ask:

Is a flu shot considered a vaccination?

When did the flu shot become a vaccination?

Is the flu jab a vaccine?

Is there a difference between vaccines and immunizations?


Searches for "is the flu shot a vaccine" have happened every fall, but peaked at 4X the autumn after the Covid vaccines became widely available.

People whose response to the suggestion that calling the Covid vaccine a "shot" might make it more acceptable to certain persons is ridicule seem to have underestimated the susceptibility/lack of knowledge of a certain cohort of the general public. Would it have made a difference in people's expectations around, and willingness to get the Covid vaccine? It's hard to say without a study, but I don't know how anyone can say that there isn't a lot of baggage attached to the word "vaccine" for some people. Obviously those people aren't exactly deep thinkers or regular imbibers of fact-based media, but those are the people who are going to be affected by semantics rather than facts.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:51 PM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

Good news everyone it's a flu smooshy happy fun times shot with new flavor berry blast! For a limited time!

I will continue to call things what they are, and encourage the word "vaccine." Since it's not a bad word, an evil thing, or anything to avoid.
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:56 PM on November 25, 2024 [2 favorites]

IMHO, some "shots" are not vaccines (e.g. IG) and some vaccines are delivered without a shot (e.g. FluMist)
posted by achrise at 2:58 PM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

IMHO, some "shots" are not vaccines (e.g. IG) and some vaccines are delivered without a shot (e.g. FluMist)

Hey now, there’s no call for going and complicating things with factually accurate details.
posted by eviemath at 3:31 PM on November 25, 2024 [4 favorites]

Look, liberals and progressives think vaccines are good. Therefore conservatives are required to think they are bad.

Doesn't matter what you call it or how you frame it, conservatives will argue against it for the simple reason that rational people are arguing for it. Doesn't matter what "it" is.

It's just that simple.
posted by VTX at 4:04 PM on November 25, 2024 [10 favorites]

> Fundamentalism is when just having faith doesn't make sense anymore so they must create a demand for it.

Fundamentalism is when just having faith doesn't make sense anymore so they require a demand for it.
FTFY.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:32 PM on November 25, 2024

I do like the detail in the article that due to low vaccination rates, the health department had to deal with a measles outbreak.

Given how antibiotic resistance is increasing, any further improvements in public health are probably going to come from advances in vaccination, eg. HPV vaccine.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 8:19 PM on November 25, 2024

I'm sorry are you saying that people think "shot" and "Vaccine" mean different things scientifically?

Okay, so hear me out: what if we could fire the vaccine into people with a pistol?
posted by pwnguin at 8:49 PM on November 25, 2024 [5 favorites]

People whose response to the suggestion that calling the Covid vaccine a "shot" might make it more acceptable to certain persons is ridicule seem to have underestimated the susceptibility/lack of knowledge of a certain cohort of the general public

Lots of people did call it a shot, including some people who were against it! “It’s not really a vaccine” was a popular line against it, with the implication that it’s sketchy new technology and that real vaccines are based on inactivated or weakened virus. The poster who started the “shot” discussion actually seems to be recapitulating some of this stuff.

I am sure that people are confused about many things about vaccines - and about the variety of technologies in play these days - but leaning into a distinction that doesn’t exist isn’t going to make them less confused.
posted by atoxyl at 9:09 PM on November 25, 2024 [3 favorites]

Is a flu shot considered a vaccination?

I suspect the rise in questions like this comes out of people being introduced to the idea that some immunizations are not Real Vaccines - because at some point in the past “vaccine” meant inoculation with “natural” virus preparations, even though the reality has been more complicated than that for a while - and therefore bad.

Prior to that the distinction was just colloquial vs. formal.
posted by atoxyl at 9:17 PM on November 25, 2024

I am the one who started this with my post saying they call it a flu shot not a flu vaccine. Maybe I am an idiot. Certainly there are people who think I am, but when I hear vaccine, I think of polio, mumps, that sort of thing that pretty much prevents you from getting it. When I hear "shot" I think of the flu where it may prevent, but more likely mitigates.

Regardless, I think maybe with good intentions, I think the government botched the messaging around almost all things Covid-19.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:55 PM on November 25, 2024

Okay, so hear me out: what if we could fire the vaccine into people with a pistol?

Ask and you shall receive:
1) gene gun - the first was actually a .22 caliber pistol fired at a DNA smeared plate
2) jet injector - a “needle free” shot
posted by rubatan at 11:05 PM on November 25, 2024 [1 favorite]

I have a pathologically low disgust response, but I have too vivid of an imagination for the History in the Jet Injector link…
posted by rubatan at 11:10 PM on November 25, 2024

They should have pointed out that vaccine originates from vaccinus "pertaining to a cow"--everybody likes cows! Just look at Chik-Fil-A!
posted by mittens at 5:00 AM on November 26, 2024

I'm just saying that in 5 decades on this planet I've never once heard anyone say, in print or in media or in person, that they thought a "shot" was different from a "vaccine."

I ran into someone who said EXACTLY that three days ago.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:01 AM on November 26, 2024 [2 favorites]

They should have pointed out that vaccine originates from vaccinus "pertaining to a cow"--everybody likes cows! Just look at Chik-Fil-A!

That would be a good starting point because all livestock gets vaccinated, even chickens, or farmers would go bankrupt. Even little salmon hatchlings get vaccinated. What we are seeing among anti-vaccine campaigns is an effort to take control of a healthcare debate, to pretend they are protecting us against a healthcare system they want to keep private. It also touches education where vaccines are needed for crowded schools, making home school a decision based on preventing disease itself. The anti-vax campaign targets a lack of ability to do abstract thinking, leaving them vulnerable to radio-host explainers who simplify the message. This creates a trust bond with those who can dumb it down without claiming expertise. Meanwhile, most have no problem with everyone wearing masks during a pandemic, for example, to slow down a virus not only from the host but also to the uninfected, a two-mask model so mind-bending complex for some that they smell a vast conspiracy because they can't understand it.
posted by Brian B. at 7:21 AM on November 26, 2024 [6 favorites]

Doesn't matter what you call it or how you frame it, conservatives will argue against it for the simple reason that rational people are arguing for it. Doesn't matter what "it" is.


I am only 10% kidding that the Dems need to change their messaging strategy for 2028 and beyond, and begin loudly clamoring about the dangers of drinking mercury, sitting next to your wood-burning stove indoors, or playing in traffic.
posted by Mayor West at 7:24 AM on November 26, 2024 [3 favorites]

Lacking somewhere else to put it, Jay Bhattacharya nominated for head of NIH. Which likely isn’t quite as bad as RFK Jr’s nomination… but, like a Justice department with Gaetz nominated to head it (and declined!), you don’t want only the show stoppers hogging all the headlines.
posted by rubatan at 12:31 AM on November 28, 2024

In (at least some parts of) Canada, the colloquial words for vaccines is not “shots” but “needles”.

I haven’t personally met or previously heard of anyone who thought there was a distinction between the two. Obviously such people exist because they are in this thread telling us that was their previous understanding. It might be useful to have some data on prevalence of such misunderstandings, though. Certainly issues around the COVID vaccine have highlighted the more common misunderstanding of vaccines as a kind of protective barrier that people imagine as basically keeping the relevant viruses out of our bodies in the first place - a natural mental picture to develop based on one of the simplistic descriptions of how vaccines work that I was taught as a child, either before or alongside the somewhat more accurate (though still not fully compete) description of what our immune systems do with vaccines that I was also taught. For example:

when I hear vaccine, I think of polio, mumps, that sort of thing that pretty much prevents you from getting it

What you’re noticing there is not a difference in mechanism between how different vaccines work, but a difference in vaccination rates alongside different rates of infectiousness of different viruses. Sadly, as we are now finding out with drops in childhood vaccination rates in some areas of the US, when community vaccination rates fall below a certain threshold, even some proportion of vaccinated people will still get measles or mumps as part of the recent localized outbreaks of each in a handful of communities in the US. Those have been localized outbreaks so far in part due to effective public health monitoring efforts, with still fairly high vaccination rates slowing potential transmission, which allows time for public health responses. Likewise, in places that still have polio transmission, while vaccinated individuals are far less likely to get noticeably sick after exposure to the virus, it does still happen in some cases.

That more fundamental misunderstanding predates and thus can’t really be blamed on COVID-specific messaging issues or failures.
posted by eviemath at 3:49 AM on November 28, 2024 [2 favorites]

The even more fundamental underlying issue is that humans often don’t think carefully through all of the consequences of stuff we’re taught - we know stuff in the sense of being able to regurgitate it fairly directly, but that’s not the same as having a strong and flexible conceptual understanding. In science education circles, folks may have heard about concept inventories, originating with the Physics Concept Inventory which was developed (a bit ago now) after physics profs at Harvard realized that even their A-student graduating physics majors weren’t able to answer some more fundamental conceptual questions.

Part of that is that sometimes new scientific information that we’re taught doesn’t fit with our current/previous conceptual models of how the world works, so we kind of compartmentalize it (taking on new information about how vaccines work but interpreting that as vaccines being a different category from shots is one example of this). My favorite example comes from biology, and relies on some background details that most students in North America have been taught, but haven’t ever been required to piece together to see the consequences of (please don’t answer if you’ve seen this before):

So, we know that plants are primarily carbon. Where does the carbon for plant growth come from?
(a) air
(b) water
(c) soil
(d) fertilizer

Teaching a classroom full of students you can actually interact with back and forth over time in a way that helps them replace less accurate or flexible conceptual models with stronger and more flexible conceptual models is hard enough. The public health challenge of trying to come up with some messaging that will, in a uni-directional manner over a very short period of time, help everyone develop better understanding is pretty much impossible. It’s a worthwhile and productive effort, because it does have an overall effect, positively reaching more people. But it’s made much more challenging when, at the same time, there are also misinformation campaigns on social media.
posted by eviemath at 4:11 AM on November 28, 2024 [1 favorite]

eviemath Yeesh, I taught 8th grade science for a year and that was one of the things mentioned in class. I doubt very much any of them remember it today, though I did try to step by step them through it and talked about first van Helmont's experiment and his conclusion, then how Ingenhousz showed his conclusion was wrong and the steps he went through to do so.
posted by sotonohito at 10:42 AM on November 28, 2024

I don’t think most folks get that much detail in their high school biology. But even the most basic description of photosynthesis includes the detail that plants take in carbon dioxide and expel oxygen during photosynthesis. And lots of people have heard about trees being carbon sinks. It’s just that the actual consequences of that knowledge conflict with our pre-conceptions/concept image of what matter or mass is, so a lot of people don’t put two and two together.
posted by eviemath at 5:19 AM on November 29, 2024

Don't these kids understand that understanding these things about how plants grow will help them grow more and better weed?!

More seriously, how plants actually grow is pretty amazing. It takes, what, 15 different nutrients in some form the plant can make use of (K2CO3 to get potassium, for example). Then a photon that took a million years to reach the sun's surface and ~3min to get from there to earth where it whacks into an electron that sends it into a higher energy state that enables a chemical reaction that generates sugar.

And the dumb things know what time of day it is from the color of the suns light. Plus light that passes close enough to the edge of a leave gets red shifted a little telling the plant it's in shadow and which way to grow to get out of it.

And they're just dumb plants! How we've cultivated plants to make food is pretty bonkers too. A lot of different veggies are different varietals of the same plant!

I think I've got all that about correct.

It occurs to me now that teachers, at least in high school, should be allowed to swear. There would have been like 30% more words in my comment and all of them swears to properly convey my enthusiasm.
posted by VTX at 8:19 AM on November 29, 2024