Some bristle at facial hair.

April 29, 2005 6:37 AM

Jesus had a beard, so when people come to my church with a beard or mustache, I don’t condemn them. Apparently the Canadian Navy is not so accepting, going back on a previous decision quoting safety regulations. Don't they realize that a beard is a man's token of superior nature?
posted by debralee (30 comments total)

posted by matteo at 6:41 AM on April 29, 2005

Beards also represent a man's separation from his environment, for those who read Cryptonomicon.
posted by modernerd at 6:47 AM on April 29, 2005

Beard you say? (self link).
posted by Capn at 7:20 AM on April 29, 2005

Personally, I'm not a fan of the full beard; however I do find a nice, trim goatee on a man quite sexy.
posted by debralee at 7:47 AM on April 29, 2005

DebraLee: I call the goatee a puddin' dip.
posted by jon_kill at 8:10 AM on April 29, 2005

Actually, in the armed forces (USA, not sure about other countries) facial hair is not allowed at all. The only exception is if it is medically necessary to have a beard, which makes me wonder...
posted by C17H19NO3 at 8:11 AM on April 29, 2005

Exceptions to the rule:

"Mustaches are permitted; if worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line or extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth. Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized."
posted by C17H19NO3 at 8:19 AM on April 29, 2005

a man's token of superior nature

We don't need tokens to assert our superior nature, you inferior being, you.
P.S. Wanna see my goatee?
posted by Doohickie at 8:52 AM on April 29, 2005

US Special Ops in Afghanistan grew beards before a general behind a desk in North Carolina decided he didn't like the idea.
posted by mlis at 8:55 AM on April 29, 2005

i think i've dated that guy, matteo : >

I think there have been cases here in the US that where a beard is a religious thing (Sikhs?) they can keep them in the services.

MLIS, what an idiot he was.
posted by amberglow at 8:57 AM on April 29, 2005

the navy and beards don't mix. (At least out at sea)

Everyone is expected to be able to do firefighting.
you can't get a proper seal on the mask of the firefighting gear with a beard on your face.

I'm just sayin ...
posted by Dillenger69 at 9:08 AM on April 29, 2005

I actually have a direct perspective on this. We do protective equipment training to HAZMAT responders (including firefighters) and do analyses of fire residues. It's not inconceivable that my lab could have been involved in the Chicoutimi investigation.

It is very difficult to get a good face seal on any protective equipment if you have a beard. Moustaches are not so bad---the important seals on firefighting masks are around the outside of the face, particularly along the jaw and temple areas. Women sometimes have problems it they have pronounced cheekbones. Beards make sealing along the jaw almost impossible. If there's no seal, the mask offers no protection, there's really no in between with a mask.

The systems supplied in Canadian submarines, a mask plus chemically-supplied air, if used correctly, would have been reasonable to fight a fire with. If the mask seal is compromised, then a very dangerous exposure could result.

It has been suggested in the media that the wiring insulation which burned in the Captain's cabin produced toxic fumes. If the harness was similar to Kapton, that's certainly possible. Fighting a fire of that nature, in a confined space with very poor visibility is extremely hazardous.

In short, fighting a fire in a very confined space with a compromised mask would be taking very big risks with one's health. It is not at all surprising to me that the navy is considering banning beards---it's a foolish risk at best. Speaking from the HAZMAT side, no one is allowed to don PPE, let alone enter a hotzone with facial hair. Those that do, have to have a razor in their response kit and be willing to dry-shave in the event of a response action.

It's important to note here, however, that the board of inquiry is still going on, and that the navy, as of yet, has not drawn any links between the fire and Lieutenant Saunder's death, or between his facial hair and any potential exposure he may have encountered. This most recent ban is probably precautionary, but a very sensible one, in my opinion.
posted by bonehead at 9:17 AM on April 29, 2005

P.S. Wanna see my goatee?
posted by Doohickie at 1:52 PM on April 29 [!]

Couple it with a black turtleneck sweater and I'll be putty in your hands. ;-)
posted by debralee at 10:03 AM on April 29, 2005

Okay. As long as you don't try to get me to wear a beret.
posted by Doohickie at 10:08 AM on April 29, 2005

Having uniform standards for guys on regular duty is a no brainer, but for special ops guys in the field, Gen. Lambert has his head up his ass on that. You get guys built like triathletes with bulges under their clothes, a big dive watch, and boat shoes on with skin tight haircuts and clean shaves at the Raven or somewhere else in Virginia Beach trying to be 'covert' and maintain a low-profile by explaining that they carry a big beeper because they're paramedics or some such.
Yeah, real smooth.
Undercover cops say it's a mindset you have to maintain and dressing to blend in the environment helps. Lambert is probably stuck in the 60's when CIA operatives thought they could go to Nicaragua, put on a Hawiian shirt and ta-da! they look just like a tourist even with the defense department haircut and 24 hour watch dial.
posted by Smedleyman at 10:13 AM on April 29, 2005

BTW - I like oscillating between goatee and beard to avoid shaving.
posted by Smedleyman at 10:15 AM on April 29, 2005

Now, an oscillating goatee could be interesting.
posted by pracowity at 10:58 AM on April 29, 2005

Apparently, beards are hip now.
I feel like shaving.
posted by mr.marx at 11:00 AM on April 29, 2005

I swear to Jesus (the hairy gentleman in the photo above) that I had read "an oscillating goatse"
posted by matteo at 11:01 AM on April 29, 2005

Okay. As long as you don't try to get me to wear a beret.
posted by Doohickie at 3:08 PM on April 29 [!]

So much for me telling you to leave your hat on...
posted by debralee at 11:02 AM on April 29, 2005

My wife particularly enjoys the oscillating goatee.
Beards are the new black....daddy-o
posted by Smedleyman at 11:17 AM on April 29, 2005

I swear to Jesus (the hairy gentleman in the photo above) that I had read "an oscillating goatse"

well, I'm sad to say you were not the only one.
I'm so goatse'd I might as well buy the t-shirt.
posted by mr.marx at 11:28 AM on April 29, 2005

Mustaches have always been the privilege of navy men. Had no idea about the beards.

Would kill for sideburns.
posted by dreamsign at 11:44 AM on April 29, 2005

Oh, I'll wear a hat, just not a beret.


posted by Doohickie at 1:10 PM on April 29, 2005

C17H19NO3,

Having "unshorn" hair ie beard & mustache is an integral part of the Sikh religion. In the Sikh regiment & the Sikh light cavalry of the Indian army, as you might expect, soldiers are actually required to have beards & mustaches.
posted by lowgfr at 2:09 PM on April 29, 2005

Actually, in the armed forces (USA, not sure about other countries) facial hair is not allowed at all.

In the U.S. Army the face must be clean-shaven, except that mustaches are permitted. If a mustache is worn, it must be neatly trimmed. No part of the mustache will cover the upper lip line or extend horizontally beyond or below the corner points of the mouth where the upper and lower lips join.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 3:50 PM on April 29, 2005

Steve U R so Gay
posted by mr.marx at 3:57 PM on April 29, 2005

In the Spanish Legion, beards are almost a requirement.
posted by Skeptic at 4:57 PM on April 29, 2005

nola strokes his beard, not caring who approves of beards or who does not.
posted by nola at 10:33 PM on April 29, 2005

See my beard
Ain't it weird?
Don't be skeered
It's just a beard
posted by fixedgear at 3:30 AM on April 30, 2005