Dominionism dissected
October 20, 2005 3:29 PM Subscribe
World's 2nd Conference on Dominionism "Dominionism is an influential form of fundamentalist religion that believes that in order to fulfill biblical prophecy, "godly Christians" must take control of the levers of political and judicial power in America in the near future....The goal of this seminar is to examine the power and influence of a religious and political movement that questions the separation of church and state, and that aims to establish a biblical society governed by biblical laws."
NYC's CUNY Open Center holds the 2nd ever conference of Domionism this weekend, Friday Oct. 21 through Saturday Oct. 22. Be there or be, well, dominated !
What, you want dancing bears too ?
posted by troutfishing at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2005
So, they call it dominionism now. I would call it republicanism
Republicanism. A late 20th century religious movement combining aspects of American style right wing politics with aspects of evangelical Christianity with particular emphasis on Old Testament Law and New Testament eschatology. It derives its name from the old Republican Party, an American mainstream political party, which they have successfully succeeded in replacing. It began as what the Federalist Papers (number10) termed, a faction.
As with most new religious movements its program is aimed at spreading its gospel through the existing political system by reinterpreting the U.S. Constitution in order to make it conform more closely to the faction’s particular favored program.
Synonyms: dominionism
See also: Democracy, Scientism
This came to me in a flash of revelation in the bath the other day. If anyone wants to edit it or expand it with an eye to a wikipedia entry or something more widely read, please feel free. We need new frames for a discussion - right and left don't work any more and progressive doesn't really do it.
posted by donfactor at 3:40 PM on October 20, 2005
Republicanism. A late 20th century religious movement combining aspects of American style right wing politics with aspects of evangelical Christianity with particular emphasis on Old Testament Law and New Testament eschatology. It derives its name from the old Republican Party, an American mainstream political party, which they have successfully succeeded in replacing. It began as what the Federalist Papers (number10) termed, a faction.
As with most new religious movements its program is aimed at spreading its gospel through the existing political system by reinterpreting the U.S. Constitution in order to make it conform more closely to the faction’s particular favored program.
Synonyms: dominionism
See also: Democracy, Scientism
This came to me in a flash of revelation in the bath the other day. If anyone wants to edit it or expand it with an eye to a wikipedia entry or something more widely read, please feel free. We need new frames for a discussion - right and left don't work any more and progressive doesn't really do it.
posted by donfactor at 3:40 PM on October 20, 2005
I guess I thought I'd pounded the subject of Dominionism to death already with dozens and dozens of links. Maybe not.
The Wikipedia has some really good entries now, BTW, on Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism.
Wouldn't it be cool it Metafilter had an "edit this post" function ? Then I'd add some material to plump it up.
posted by troutfishing at 3:41 PM on October 20, 2005
The Wikipedia has some really good entries now, BTW, on Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism.
Wouldn't it be cool it Metafilter had an "edit this post" function ? Then I'd add some material to plump it up.
posted by troutfishing at 3:41 PM on October 20, 2005
donfactor - There are people who actually study these movements. The ur-source of the political goals you describe came from, more than anywhere, Christian Reconstructionism.
Here's a moderate length piece which sums up the whole ball f wax fairly nicely :
Theocratic Dominionism Gains Influence
posted by troutfishing at 3:46 PM on October 20, 2005
Here's a moderate length piece which sums up the whole ball f wax fairly nicely :
Theocratic Dominionism Gains Influence
posted by troutfishing at 3:46 PM on October 20, 2005
The problem I can see with calling it "Republicanism" is that there still are large pockets of non-Dominionist and even secular Republicans around here and there ( mostly there, but... ) and your term could muddy the issue.
Key to Dominionism is it's urge to power - it's overtly anti-Democratic, and Christian Reconstructionism actually considers Democracy heretical ( ! )
As a term, I like "Christian Supremacy"
posted by troutfishing at 3:49 PM on October 20, 2005
Key to Dominionism is it's urge to power - it's overtly anti-Democratic, and Christian Reconstructionism actually considers Democracy heretical ( ! )
As a term, I like "Christian Supremacy"
posted by troutfishing at 3:49 PM on October 20, 2005
Thanks trout, I shall read it. But my primary interest is in finding a replacement terminology for "Christian Right". The folks who study these things are never going to make a dent in the mass consciousness. But a good turn of phrase might just help a lttle. The programs that are described are not Christian in any coherent use of the term in that their theology draws largely from the old testament, leaving out most of the ten commandments, and pretty much ignores the words of Jesus in the gospels, even the end of times message is drawn more from Daniel than from the Apocalypse of John, and dominionism for that matter comes from Genesis. Blessed are the peacemakers doesn't even get a look in.
So why not, Republicanism?
posted by donfactor at 3:57 PM on October 20, 2005
So why not, Republicanism?
posted by donfactor at 3:57 PM on October 20, 2005
I guess I thought I'd pounded the subject of Dominionism to death already with dozens and dozens of links.
What on earth was worthwhile about this one that merited a new post? It's a two paragraph event announcement. In what way is this best of the web? In what way is this informative or interesting? The minutes and findings of said conference: that could be quite interesting and new, but they don't exist yet.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2005
What on earth was worthwhile about this one that merited a new post? It's a two paragraph event announcement. In what way is this best of the web? In what way is this informative or interesting? The minutes and findings of said conference: that could be quite interesting and new, but they don't exist yet.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2005
Sweet. I'll be going to this, and also to the Manifest Destiny Conference.
posted by mullingitover at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by mullingitover at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2005
by reinterpreting the U.S. Constitution in order to make it conform more closely to the faction’s particular favored program.
So ... they're jsut like all the other political movements?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:08 PM on October 20, 2005
So ... they're jsut like all the other political movements?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:08 PM on October 20, 2005
*just* Dammit.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2005
Let’s have christ for president.
Let us have him for our king.
Cast your vote for the carpenter
That you call the nazarene.
The only way we can ever beat
These crooked politician men
Is to run the money changers out of the temple
And put the carpenter in
O it’s jesus christ for president
God above our king
With a job and a pension for young and old
We will make hallelujah ring
Every year we waste enough
To feed the ones who starve
We build our civilization up
And we shoot it down with wars
But with the carpenter on the seat
Away up in the capital town
The usa would be on the way prosperity bound!
- Christ For President by Billy Bragg
posted by basicchannel at 4:12 PM on October 20, 2005
Let us have him for our king.
Cast your vote for the carpenter
That you call the nazarene.
The only way we can ever beat
These crooked politician men
Is to run the money changers out of the temple
And put the carpenter in
O it’s jesus christ for president
God above our king
With a job and a pension for young and old
We will make hallelujah ring
Every year we waste enough
To feed the ones who starve
We build our civilization up
And we shoot it down with wars
But with the carpenter on the seat
Away up in the capital town
The usa would be on the way prosperity bound!
- Christ For President by Billy Bragg
posted by basicchannel at 4:12 PM on October 20, 2005
by they way the idea of republicanism came from the idea behind the term scientism as applied to those scientists and lovers of science who subscribe to a strict, funamentalist belief in the reductionist, materialist paradigm and who arbitrarily reject any other world-view. This certainly does not include all sicientists. But maybe someone can come up with something better than republicanists. Its just that those "other" folks are very good at framing, take for instance intelligent design, much more liveable with than creationism. The trick is for us to be able to call a spade a spade in a language that can be understood and that might work its way onto Fox News or the NY Times.
posted by donfactor at 4:16 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by donfactor at 4:16 PM on October 20, 2005
basicchannel - don't you mean Woody Guthrie?
posted by BrandonAbell at 4:18 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by BrandonAbell at 4:18 PM on October 20, 2005
Lyrics by Woody Guthrie, yes.
posted by basicchannel at 4:21 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by basicchannel at 4:21 PM on October 20, 2005
But the music that accompanied your written post was Billy Bragg.
posted by Falconetti at 4:31 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by Falconetti at 4:31 PM on October 20, 2005
I'm going to be proven wrong or something, I just know it...
Christians are taught to show humility and that God is always right, correct? So how in the world do people begin to presume that God's just about to make the rapture happen, and MUCH worse, how incredibly selfish and un-Christian to actively work towards making it happen? It seems extremely un-Christian for people to claim that God gave man the world to use up like so much toilet paper...wouldn't God truly appreciate humans taking good care of the gifts He gave?
...
I am not a Christian, if you hadn't noticed. I don't have any specific disrespect for Christian, but I do wholly disagree with this movement and soon hope for a backlash BY real Christians against this sort of idiocy.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:40 PM on October 20, 2005
Christians are taught to show humility and that God is always right, correct? So how in the world do people begin to presume that God's just about to make the rapture happen, and MUCH worse, how incredibly selfish and un-Christian to actively work towards making it happen? It seems extremely un-Christian for people to claim that God gave man the world to use up like so much toilet paper...wouldn't God truly appreciate humans taking good care of the gifts He gave?
...
I am not a Christian, if you hadn't noticed. I don't have any specific disrespect for Christian, but I do wholly disagree with this movement and soon hope for a backlash BY real Christians against this sort of idiocy.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:40 PM on October 20, 2005
By the way, your tags are screwed up.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:41 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:41 PM on October 20, 2005
I have this sensation christians are becoming the next surreal scapegoat , some new kind of new "librul" ..guess that this is the level of discussion that is expected from obedient masses.
posted by elpapacito at 4:56 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 4:56 PM on October 20, 2005
elpapacito :
Who are "Christians" ? Saying someone is a Christian is not much descriptive than saying they are a "human".
Dominionist Christians are a fairly specific group though. I can describe to you the general history of the movement's origins, which denominations the movement is strongest in, as so on.
I was raised as a Christian. My father was a minister. In any case, you'll have to help me in terms of defining what a "surreal scapegoat" is.
Recognizing a previously unsuspected ( yet not exactly hidden ) social phenonmenon is - I agree - painful.
posted by troutfishing at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2005
Who are "Christians" ? Saying someone is a Christian is not much descriptive than saying they are a "human".
Dominionist Christians are a fairly specific group though. I can describe to you the general history of the movement's origins, which denominations the movement is strongest in, as so on.
I was raised as a Christian. My father was a minister. In any case, you'll have to help me in terms of defining what a "surreal scapegoat" is.
Recognizing a previously unsuspected ( yet not exactly hidden ) social phenonmenon is - I agree - painful.
posted by troutfishing at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2005
donfactor - As a career generalist, I'd have to say this : there are benefits to specialization. And drawbacks.
But people who study the Christian supremacist right are acutely aware of the pitfalls of language. More so than any group I've yet encountered.
The nexus of politics, religion, and language is an absurdly dangerous minefield.
posted by troutfishing at 5:33 PM on October 20, 2005
But people who study the Christian supremacist right are acutely aware of the pitfalls of language. More so than any group I've yet encountered.
The nexus of politics, religion, and language is an absurdly dangerous minefield.
posted by troutfishing at 5:33 PM on October 20, 2005
I do wholly disagree with this movement and soon hope for a backlash BY real Christians against this sort of idiocy
Well, a lot would say it's anti-Biblical. Christ said his kingdom was not of this earth, in other words not political, and that no one would know when the end is coming.
Luke 17:20-21 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
Referring to signs of the end of the age:
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
posted by scheptech at 5:39 PM on October 20, 2005
Well, a lot would say it's anti-Biblical. Christ said his kingdom was not of this earth, in other words not political, and that no one would know when the end is coming.
Luke 17:20-21 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
Referring to signs of the end of the age:
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
posted by scheptech at 5:39 PM on October 20, 2005
Is that your....whole post?
ah,....ahem.....er..........What!? You haven't dropped all other plans and confirmed your registration?
posted by longsleeves at 5:39 PM on October 20, 2005
ah,....ahem.....er..........What!? You haven't dropped all other plans and confirmed your registration?
posted by longsleeves at 5:39 PM on October 20, 2005
Let me introduce Katherine Yurica, The Yurica Report maybe more than you want to know about dominionism
posted by hortense at 5:46 PM on October 20, 2005
posted by hortense at 5:46 PM on October 20, 2005
"Key to Dominionism is it's urge to power "
What's your point? Power is the whole point behind politics and politicians. In fact, it is the focus for every
political party in existence.
Doesn't being a Christian mean following the teachings of Jesus? The bible is supposedly the doctrine and guide for living a Christian life. So how can a group that tosses out portions of the bible as it suits them be considered Christians?
It is so pointless to label every group that doesn't share your political beliefs as being Republican. The whole political system in the USA is lousy with idiots, liars, manipulators, the power hungry, and self-interested.
Placing blame on one party over another for the corrupt state our govenment is in is ludicrous. It took years for the government to be in the mess it is in now, responsibility
lies with both Republicans and Democrats.
posted by bat at 5:47 PM on October 20, 2005
What's your point? Power is the whole point behind politics and politicians. In fact, it is the focus for every
political party in existence.
Doesn't being a Christian mean following the teachings of Jesus? The bible is supposedly the doctrine and guide for living a Christian life. So how can a group that tosses out portions of the bible as it suits them be considered Christians?
It is so pointless to label every group that doesn't share your political beliefs as being Republican. The whole political system in the USA is lousy with idiots, liars, manipulators, the power hungry, and self-interested.
Placing blame on one party over another for the corrupt state our govenment is in is ludicrous. It took years for the government to be in the mess it is in now, responsibility
lies with both Republicans and Democrats.
posted by bat at 5:47 PM on October 20, 2005
and that aims to establish a biblical society governed by biblical laws
Now imagine if a group of people were holding a conference in the US where they aimed to "establish an Islamic society governed by Koranic laws". . . . .
posted by Jimbob at 5:49 PM on October 20, 2005
Now imagine if a group of people were holding a conference in the US where they aimed to "establish an Islamic society governed by Koranic laws". . . . .
posted by Jimbob at 5:49 PM on October 20, 2005
Now imagine if a group of people were holding a conference in the US where they aimed to "establish an Islamic society governed by Koranic laws". . . . .
But the purpose of this "conference" isn't to "establish a biblical society governed by biblical laws". It's about such a "movement", correct?
posted by Stauf at 6:02 PM on October 20, 2005
But the purpose of this "conference" isn't to "establish a biblical society governed by biblical laws". It's about such a "movement", correct?
posted by Stauf at 6:02 PM on October 20, 2005
Jimbob - those [ Dominionist Biblical ] conferences happen too. They are just less well advertised. But, the funny thing is that they aren't exactly secret either. It's just that few people are payng attention.
Anyway, sheptech definitely wins - in my eyes - the prize for Biblical literacy.
posted by troutfishing at 8:49 PM on October 20, 2005
Anyway, sheptech definitely wins - in my eyes - the prize for Biblical literacy.
posted by troutfishing at 8:49 PM on October 20, 2005
I can never wrap my brain around people who a)believe in prophecy, predestination, all that crap & b) think they can do things to "hurry it along" or make sure the "prohecy comes true".
If you could affect the outcome, wouldn't it cease to be prophecy? Wouldn't god or jebus or satan or whoever have already forseen the intervention and taken it into account?
I know this is not the best group to look for logic, but how do these people's brains avoid implosion?
posted by signal at 9:14 PM on October 20, 2005
If you could affect the outcome, wouldn't it cease to be prophecy? Wouldn't god or jebus or satan or whoever have already forseen the intervention and taken it into account?
I know this is not the best group to look for logic, but how do these people's brains avoid implosion?
posted by signal at 9:14 PM on October 20, 2005
signal - I think by exercise, prayer, and occasional outbursts of binge drinking and sex with random strangers.
Just a guess.
posted by troutfishing at 9:17 PM on October 20, 2005
Just a guess.
posted by troutfishing at 9:17 PM on October 20, 2005
This site has a lot of links to Kingdom Now, Domion theology, and Christian Reconstructionism. They're atypical Christians, given that theocracy is a basic tenet of their beliefs:
Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely 'social' or 'moral' issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a 'Biblical world view' and 'Biblical principles' by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: 'The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law.'
posted by maryh at 9:30 PM on October 20, 2005
Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely 'social' or 'moral' issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a 'Biblical world view' and 'Biblical principles' by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: 'The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law.'
posted by maryh at 9:30 PM on October 20, 2005
The problem I can see with calling it "Republicanism" is that there still are large pockets of non-Dominionist and even secular Republicans around here and there ( mostly there, but... ) and your term could muddy the issue.
Exactly. As far as I can tell, the term Dominionism came about as a direct result of Republicans not wanting to be tied to Republicanism....ala Rudy Guiliani, John McCain, Christine Todd Whitman, etc. You know, the last few sane Republicans.
Dominionism is larger than people suspect. It can be found in characters such as LTGEN Boykin, advocating religious genocide without seeming ot realize it, and all of his defenders.
From the link:
What can be done to alert concerned citizens to the theocratic impulse growing in their midst?
Indeed. Especially when doing so gets you criticized as being anti-christian...and in America, we all know that that can cause you grief:
I have this sensation christians are becoming the next surreal scapegoat , some new kind of new "librul" ..guess that this is the level of discussion that is expected from obedient masses.
posted by elpapacito at 4:56 PM PST on October 20 [!]
Meanwhile it gives its practitioners welcome relief to those shackles the bible and the religion place on us. You know, those verses that advocate poverty and peace...dominionists don't need 'em.
posted by taumeson at 6:28 AM on October 21, 2005
Exactly. As far as I can tell, the term Dominionism came about as a direct result of Republicans not wanting to be tied to Republicanism....ala Rudy Guiliani, John McCain, Christine Todd Whitman, etc. You know, the last few sane Republicans.
Dominionism is larger than people suspect. It can be found in characters such as LTGEN Boykin, advocating religious genocide without seeming ot realize it, and all of his defenders.
From the link:
What can be done to alert concerned citizens to the theocratic impulse growing in their midst?
Indeed. Especially when doing so gets you criticized as being anti-christian...and in America, we all know that that can cause you grief:
I have this sensation christians are becoming the next surreal scapegoat , some new kind of new "librul" ..guess that this is the level of discussion that is expected from obedient masses.
posted by elpapacito at 4:56 PM PST on October 20 [!]
Meanwhile it gives its practitioners welcome relief to those shackles the bible and the religion place on us. You know, those verses that advocate poverty and peace...dominionists don't need 'em.
posted by taumeson at 6:28 AM on October 21, 2005
Bah. Give 'em Utah, Nebraska, or Idaho. When the grand experiments in faith-based civil engineering, economic policy, and public health fail miserably, use Wyoming to house the refugees.
posted by Vetinari at 6:37 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by Vetinari at 6:37 AM on October 21, 2005
maryh - Just go straight to the sourse : The Chalcedon Institute. That's where most of the Reconstructionist and Dominionist theologians have cycled through at one point or another, and founder Rushdoony's writing are generally acknowledged as the preeminent inspiration for this theological movement.
Here is a telling writeup on Reconstructionism - accurate enough and chock full of actual quotations from Reconstructionist theologians.
posted by troutfishing at 7:00 AM on October 21, 2005
Here is a telling writeup on Reconstructionism - accurate enough and chock full of actual quotations from Reconstructionist theologians.
posted by troutfishing at 7:00 AM on October 21, 2005
As an additional point of interest, close to where I live a Dominionist evangelical radio station closely connected to the Southern Baptist Convention will probably prevail in an FCC ruling, over a 35 year old high school student run community radio station, to grab that station's FM frequency and broadcast over the airwaves in sleepily liberal Massachusetts, not very far from Boston. Here's the writeup. Warning - self link ( but appropriate here )
posted by troutfishing at 7:05 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 7:05 AM on October 21, 2005
As an additional point of interest, close to where I live a Dominionist evangelical radio station closely connected to the Southern Baptist Convention will probably prevail in an FCC ruling, over a 35 year old high school student run community radio station, to grab that station's FM frequency and broadcast over the airwaves in sleepily liberal Massachusetts, not very far from Boston. Here's the writeup. Warning - self link ( but appropriate here )
posted by troutfishing at 7:13 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 7:13 AM on October 21, 2005
That's a proposal worthy of your namesake, Vetinari.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:26 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:26 AM on October 21, 2005
Okay, then lets just call them theocrats. If in all our writings and converstations we talk about theocrats, it might leak into the common pool. That's what happened with lefties, commies, war on terror, empire of evil, axis of evil and so on. Such frames establish the level of discourse because they are memorable and easily used in defense of the indefensible. Why can't progressives choose to bat first instead of worrying about treading dangerous ground, getting our images dirty, or slipping off the highground out there in the wilderness?
posted by donfactor at 8:07 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by donfactor at 8:07 AM on October 21, 2005
I think we should call them Christian Jihadists. Their aim is identical to the Islamic Jihadists. They want to force the world to adopt their religion even if it means at gunpoint. If they had their way we would have concentration camps for homosexuals and Friday night execution shows so we could all watch abortionists and the women who avail themselves of their services fry on live TV. Nothing terrifies me more than the thought of religion given the force of law.
posted by waltb555 at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by waltb555 at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2005
It's strange - that's one of our many rallying cries when we attack Middle Eastern countries ("they have an Islamic government"), yet we're embracing it here.
posted by FormlessOne at 10:04 AM on October 21, 2005
posted by FormlessOne at 10:04 AM on October 21, 2005
Recently, NARAL put out an ad on the Roberts nomination which cost quite a bit of money and yet got hastily yanked despite the substantial amounts of money put into producing the ad and buying time slots for it. Why ? - well, the people who made the ad failed to consult the small pool of experts on the Christian right on the ad's language and tone. The counterattack was withering, and the financial loss - from the ad being pulled - was considerable.
As I've mentioned, there is a very small pool of people who have tracked and written on the Christian right/Domionist/Theocratic movement at length. I've some to know some of them.
A number of terms have been batted around in this group. Personally, I like "Christian Supremacy" for its resonance with "White Supremacy" because - indeed - there have been ties between the two movements. Another label is "The Theocratic Right" : that seems to me, somehow, dry or technical. The "Christian Supremacy" movement, and "Christian Supremacists" just sounds malevolent right out of the gate. As it should - it's a malevolent movement.
posted by troutfishing at 10:36 AM on October 21, 2005
As I've mentioned, there is a very small pool of people who have tracked and written on the Christian right/Domionist/Theocratic movement at length. I've some to know some of them.
A number of terms have been batted around in this group. Personally, I like "Christian Supremacy" for its resonance with "White Supremacy" because - indeed - there have been ties between the two movements. Another label is "The Theocratic Right" : that seems to me, somehow, dry or technical. The "Christian Supremacy" movement, and "Christian Supremacists" just sounds malevolent right out of the gate. As it should - it's a malevolent movement.
posted by troutfishing at 10:36 AM on October 21, 2005
Donfactor - I would, but they are not quite theocrats yet.
Theocracy in on the march in the US but hasn't, I think, quite arrived yet.
"Would-be-theocrats" ? Technically correct, but.....
Keep trying - I'm sure there are lots of possibilities, better ones maybe, no one has thought of.
"Christian Luddite-supremacists" is far too long but pretty specific.....
posted by troutfishing at 10:40 AM on October 21, 2005
Theocracy in on the march in the US but hasn't, I think, quite arrived yet.
"Would-be-theocrats" ? Technically correct, but.....
Keep trying - I'm sure there are lots of possibilities, better ones maybe, no one has thought of.
"Christian Luddite-supremacists" is far too long but pretty specific.....
posted by troutfishing at 10:40 AM on October 21, 2005
The problem, trout, as I see it, is that preaching to the choir is one thing and making the people who are tempted by the other preachings begin to wonder if they ought to go along with it is another. Its this latter that I am interested in plus the vast group of non-committed, disinterested, can't be bothered to vote folks, some of whom, in my generation came to life when the phrase "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for country," was first heard.
What we need is not more oppositional moaning and complaining and supporting our arguments for one another but reaching out to all those others. My own kids - both in their forties agree with my politics but when it comes to voting are amongst the huge number that can't be bothered. Those are the people who I want to reach.
posted by donfactor at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2005
What we need is not more oppositional moaning and complaining and supporting our arguments for one another but reaching out to all those others. My own kids - both in their forties agree with my politics but when it comes to voting are amongst the huge number that can't be bothered. Those are the people who I want to reach.
posted by donfactor at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2005
donfactor - Oh, I mostly agree. Look, I don't see this forum as the place to make a big difference either. The main point of disagreement I would take with your argument is this - awareness, on the left, of how the Christian right has risen to power and how it is expanding in its numbers and power base is dim to nonexistent on the left. Numerically, the Christian right is only a small minority - between 10-20 percent by most reckonings - which has become well organized.
The left needs to start with one basic lesson - building for political power takes work, time, and persoanl committment. It needs to re-engage in local politics and start building its own networkas the theocratic right started doin over twenty years ago. In other words, I think the place to start is in consolidating the left's base - by building alliances and coalitions, by increasing inter-comunication and intercooperation.
But one strategy will turn this around. Many interlocking strategies and tactics will be needed.
Anyway, I'm working on a project - soon to launch - that should help.
posted by troutfishing at 10:20 AM on October 22, 2005
The left needs to start with one basic lesson - building for political power takes work, time, and persoanl committment. It needs to re-engage in local politics and start building its own networkas the theocratic right started doin over twenty years ago. In other words, I think the place to start is in consolidating the left's base - by building alliances and coalitions, by increasing inter-comunication and intercooperation.
But one strategy will turn this around. Many interlocking strategies and tactics will be needed.
Anyway, I'm working on a project - soon to launch - that should help.
posted by troutfishing at 10:20 AM on October 22, 2005
Oops - I'm in too much of a hurry. I meant to type there "But no one strategy will turn this around".
posted by troutfishing at 10:23 AM on October 22, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 10:23 AM on October 22, 2005
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posted by dhoyt at 3:32 PM on October 20, 2005